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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:22:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only new laws should come from Congress |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:25:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck Chevron SCOTUS should rule on Chevron this year? Correct? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The only new laws should come from Congress Fuck Chevron SCOTUS should rule on Chevron this year? Correct? Let’s hope they get it right. I fear too many justices like government overreach when it appeals to their particular beliefs. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:31:59 PM EDT
[#3]
ATF is asshole
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:35:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck enforcing that one, ATF.  They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:36:19 PM EDT
[#5]
I'll take unconstitutional for $1000, Alex.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:51:39 PM EDT
[#6]
No step means no step, fuckface.
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Posted: 2/2/2024 11:25:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I'm curious as to how they'd actually execute it. As others have said fuck the ATF and of course its unconstitutional and may get slapped down by SCOTUS but... Coming from the Fintech space I caution everyone to think about timelines and payment methods if such a thing should come into effect. The average person has no idea what kind of network analysis and information financial institutions have on you. Because of the bank secrecy act (1970) & Patriot act (2001) they have an unbelievable amount of info and leeway on how they use it. Of course the financial institutions (most anyway) are naturally in bed with politicians at the highest levels so they WILL and HAVE worked with them (think about J6). Even those that are not still have compliance requirements with FINCEN among others that must be adhered to or they'll be shutdown. A little less known is that even cash can be tracked to some degree but outside of financial instruments remember that if there's a digital footprint and the will to obtain and use it the ability is absolutely there. 4473's for original purchases are absolutely put in a "non-existent" database and they're dated etc. The other factor is determining who has what and when, ie at what point would they know a new buyer from a PP had x from y. That might never happen for the majority unless there's some sort of mass confiscation (lolol) but one could think of a few occasions where that might be discovered if you have an imagination. Perhaps you PP x from y and then trade that gun in at a gunshop and they record that on a 4473 etc. All of that said, in effect this is another defacto NFA if you look a bit into the future (assuming they're not stopped). Think about it like the Hughes amendment etc as it was all created by the same people and they love to inch things forward slowly and never forget the overall goal. |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 1:59:44 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm thinking that the level of voluntary compliance will be pretty low.
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Posted: 2/2/2024 2:10:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol how will they preemptively know…. 4473s sure, but what those are sold FTF? fuck off ATF Entrapment is their gold standard. Interpret private sales as illegal. Agents post ads wanting to buy guns. Profit. I just hope none of those brave men and women don't get hurt in the line of duty if they attempt this. That would be tragic. |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 2:18:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 2:34:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, hello there, friend mooreshawnm! Buddy, pal! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I will continue to build and give away ARs. Fuck them. Well, hello there, friend mooreshawnm! Buddy, pal! Become a postmaster in WY and come see me. |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 2:56:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @osprey21 Let's compare notes, my plan is 1301 pages.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And I'm theoretically working on a plan to eliminate ATF... "theoretically"  @osprey21 Let's compare notes, my plan is 1301 pages. I'll bet you could condense it to something like 303 pages. Call it "Rule 303" if you want something catchy!
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Posted: 2/2/2024 10:49:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FATF try passing a law My sentiments exactly...  No legal status...why comply...? Because 1300 pages say so...?
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Posted: 2/2/2024 10:52:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Their direction from the White House in 2021 was "Find a way to go after guns without needing a vote in Congress" so that's what they've been doing with the full knowledge that their bullshit won't hold up in court. It allows ATF to say "we tried".
If they enact this "rule", it'll just be slapped down in court like all the others. |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 10:54:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Another law to be completely ignored.
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Posted: 2/2/2024 10:55:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
?????? @EMPOWR_us has learned through whistleblowers within ATF that at the direction of the White House, ATF has drafted a 1,300 page document to justify a rule effectively banning the private sale of firearms. The whistleblowers say the rule is being drafted by Senior Policy Counsel Eric Epstein, who worked as the Phoenix Field Office's Division Counsel during Operation Wide Received (a precursor of Operation Fast and Furious). (miscellaneous crap not related to it cut) I'm curious as to how they'd actually execute it. If it's really 1,300 pages; they've put together serious thought into this, but... I just don't know. Perhaps it's being drafted to be held "in abeyance" awaiting the next mass shooting, for maximum effect? Fuck ‘em. We’re the ones with all the guns. They can try to enforce it, people are out of fucks to give. |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 11:00:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: dumbest thing you could ever say Yeah, your gonna ignore this law just like you ignore the machinegun ban right. ANYBODY who just acts like this is not a huge deal has either an inability to grasp reality or is to busy planning video games to pay attention to what is going on right now unfuckinbelievablystupid https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1342807235103_8089078.png It isn’t a law |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 11:02:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good luck enforcing that one, ATF. They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. Yup. It's a war of attrition and time is on their side. (See NFA and the idiots who keep it going by playing into it) Paying someone $200 to exercise a right, get fucked. |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 11:23:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? The usual democrat attitude…  |
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Posted: 2/2/2024 11:26:47 PM EDT
[#20]
They should ban meth, that would stop the use of it
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:07:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? The usual democrat attitude… https://i.imgur.com/PU1Ph4g.gif I'm continually surprised that more don't seem to understand this. It's shocking that they seem to think we are still playing by the old known rules. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:11:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:18:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Another rule to be shot down. Do they get sick of having their peepee slapped?
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:20:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another rule to be shot down. Do they get sick of having their peepee slapped? Why would they be? It's not their money or jail time. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:20:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another rule to be shot down. Do they get sick of having their peepee slapped? Just remember the bumpstock lawsuit has been ongoing for half a decade now. They are getting to do a whole lot of infringing for years and years. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:22:36 AM EDT
[#26]
If you work for, contract with, or support the ATF you are a flaming sack of traitorous shit.
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:49:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. They are doing whatever they want. They could say it's because you are wearing white socks. They have the power and we don't. It's as simple as that. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:54:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are doing whatever they want. They could say it's because you are wearing white socks. They have the power and we don't. It's as simple as that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. They are doing whatever they want. They could say it's because you are wearing white socks. They have the power and we don't. It's as simple as that. While it is clear that you are correct as to ATF's mindset, they are still in the habit of contorting logic to lay claim to an interpretive rule related to statute. That's why Chevron has come up so much in this thread, as it grants deference to the regulating entity in their interpretation of the statutes. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:00:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Nah.
Anyways… |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:11:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any relation? Quote HistoryQuoted: The whistleblowers say the rule is being drafted by Senior Policy Counsel Eric Epstein, who worked as the Phoenix Field Office's Division Counsel during Operation Wide Received (a precursor of Operation Fast and Furious). Any relation? I don't know about relation but Operation Wide Receiver almost certainly got innocent people killed in Mexico, when the ATF lost track of the guns. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:25:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Muh feelz! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. Muh feelz! ATF hit an Amish famer near me for private sales. They cleaned him out but he avoided prison, and now might be able to appeal the conviction. The ATF basically went after him because he sold a ""large number" of guns, and they considered his personal collection his merchandise, and gasp advertised a gun for sale occasionally. The more disturbing thing is it seemed to me a coordinated cross agency hit to eliminate someone Dept of Ag wasnt happy with because they sold stuff like raw milk. He's not been the only one either. https://www.thelancasterpatriot.com/the-men-who-keep-tyranny-alive/ |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:33:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
?????? @EMPOWR_us has learned through whistleblowers within ATF that at the direction of the White House, ATF has drafted a 1,300 page document to justify a rule effectively banning the private sale of firearms. The whistleblowers say the rule is being drafted by Senior Policy Counsel Eric Epstein, who worked as the Phoenix Field Office's Division Counsel during Operation Wide Received (a precursor of Operation Fast and Furious). (miscellaneous crap not related to it cut) I'm curious as to how they'd actually execute it. If it's really 1,300 pages; they've put together serious thought into this, but... I just don't know. Perhaps it's being drafted to be held "in abeyance" awaiting the next mass shooting, for maximum effect? Uhhhh, no. If it's 1300 pages that means it is just like all of the other word vomit they've published to try to do things which they cant do over the last few years. The quantity is supposed to make, well, people like you, assume they have something. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:34:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF hit an Amish famer near me for private sales. They cleaned him out but he avoided prison, and now might be able to appeal the conviction. The ATF basically went after him because he sold a ""large number" of guns, and they considered his personal collection his merchandise, and gasp advertised a gun for sale occasionally. The more disturbing thing is it seemed to me a coordinated cross agency hit to eliminate someone Dept of Ag wasnt happy with because they sold stuff like raw milk. He's not been the only one either. https://www.thelancasterpatriot.com/the-men-who-keep-tyranny-alive/ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. Muh feelz! ATF hit an Amish famer near me for private sales. They cleaned him out but he avoided prison, and now might be able to appeal the conviction. The ATF basically went after him because he sold a ""large number" of guns, and they considered his personal collection his merchandise, and gasp advertised a gun for sale occasionally. The more disturbing thing is it seemed to me a coordinated cross agency hit to eliminate someone Dept of Ag wasnt happy with because they sold stuff like raw milk. He's not been the only one either. https://www.thelancasterpatriot.com/the-men-who-keep-tyranny-alive/ Imagine that. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:35:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. Ok. Not disagreeing. But jump frog. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:36:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. It's a war of attrition and time is on their side. (See NFA and the idiots who keep it going by playing into it) Paying someone $200 to exercise a right, get fucked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good luck enforcing that one, ATF. They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. Yup. It's a war of attrition and time is on their side. (See NFA and the idiots who keep it going by playing into it) Paying someone $200 to exercise a right, get fucked. Nah the ATF and antis have effectively lost control. There are more roll your own, more tech that simulates full auto that skirts registration requirements, building your own in the garage is easier than ever. The harder they push the more people are going to take steps to make raids on homes almost worthless when it comes to disarming a person. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:37:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their direction from the White House in 2021 was "Find a way to go after guns without needing a vote in Congress" so that's what they've been doing with the full knowledge that their bullshit won't hold up in court. It allows ATF to say "we tried". If they enact this "rule", it'll just be slapped down in court like all the others. Which is lawfare. Should have consequences |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:50:17 AM EDT
[#37]
They are actively working to disarm and make law obiding gun owners lives as difficult as possible while simultaneously allowing four million illegal criminals rapists terrorists and murderers to flood over the border each year.
Does it make sense for everyone yet? |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 1:50:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. It's a war of attrition and time is on their side. (See NFA and the idiots who keep it going by playing into it) Paying someone $200 to exercise a right, get fucked. Time was on their side 50 years ago. Then the tide turned and we have been winning for 30 years, which is why the enemy is thrashing about everywhere while being almost completely ineffective. Liberals talk about how kind and caring they are, while being some of the most viciously mean people imaginable. Similarly Conservatives claim to know and understand history...... but display such a perfect ignorance of it that they end of believing whatever the left tells them. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 4:52:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF hit an Amish famer near me for private sales. They cleaned him out but he avoided prison, and now might be able to appeal the conviction. The ATF basically went after him because he sold a ""large number" of guns, and they considered his personal collection his merchandise, and gasp advertised a gun for sale occasionally. The more disturbing thing is it seemed to me a coordinated cross agency hit to eliminate someone Dept of Ag wasnt happy with because they sold stuff like raw milk. He's not been the only one either. https://www.thelancasterpatriot.com/the-men-who-keep-tyranny-alive/ FOIA could be pretty interesting in that case. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 5:04:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good luck enforcing that one, ATF. They'll implement a mandatory registry. Have a gun that isn't registered? Missing a gun that is? Ten years in prison. That's the only way to do it. Once there's a registry then bans will follow as they're now drastically easier to enforce. That will take a law from congress. What law is currently on the books that would fit ? |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 5:06:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. Most likely so. Nothing else would fit. I still don't think they can decide anyone selling even a single gun is a dealer though. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 5:32:44 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then at the direction of the administration they are shutting down dealers to limit your options even more . My kitchen table guy got his letter a few weeks ago 
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Posted: 2/3/2024 5:49:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Hopefully the Supreme Court strikes down Chevron and all of this stops for good:
Supreme Court likely to discard Chevron |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 6:08:22 AM EDT
[#44]
If it take 1300 pages to justify a law…that should tell you how illegal that “justification” is.
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Posted: 2/3/2024 6:53:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget its full name they like to brag about - the BIPARTISAN Safer..... They got a few RINOs to go along with that lunacy. It irritates me every time I hear them mention the name of that bill . Thank that fuck Glitch the Bitch for allowing the bill to come to a vote to begin with. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 7:11:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Instead of banning private sales, they should just open up a transfer portal where people can perform a person to person transfer with a quick background check to ensure you aren’t doing a private transfer to a felon. And they will copy that info. Also felons are protected by the 2nd. Stop accepting the premise of the enemy. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 7:15:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Commented on, not realized. We were sold out by some white haired 'principled conservative' type with a guaranteed-for-life senate seat by a detached and ignorant voter base. In other shocking news, it's Thursday. I just hope the goodwill and spirit of compromise they bought at the cost of our essential liberties is worth it to them Retiring fuck gets to hold his head high while smiling and patting himself on the back. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 7:15:17 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you work for, contract with, or support the ATF you are a flaming sack of traitorous shit. Hesrightyouknow |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 10:30:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most likely so. Nothing else would fit. I still don't think they can decide anyone selling even a single gun is a dealer though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where is the legal justification? Even their abuses of the law usually have some pretense of an excuse. I can't see how they can just declare it illegal. I'd love to see what their angle is on this. That's my question. What are they basing it on to get the authority to make that huge a change? Spitballing, but I think they're adjusting interpretation of "in the business of", saying that anyone selling any firearm is engaged in the business of selling firearms and must have an FFL. Most likely so. Nothing else would fit. I still don't think they can decide anyone selling even a single gun is a dealer though. They can decide some pretty stupid shit, apparently. Whether I'll hold up un court is very questionable. There's no way to enforce it. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 10:56:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Until politicians are held accountable for passing unconstitutional laws, nothing will change. They pass them knowing it is and expect to take it to court.
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