User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 2:04:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd rather LEO know about evidence on the scene that would exonerate me and secure it before my lawyer got around to calling them. A cop friend of mine told me that are trained to get you to talk. When they arrive on the scene all they know is you're the one still holding a gun. Also, how does the cop know that you didn't provoke the attack, or fired the gun as he was running. They want to find some evidence against you and they know the laws much better than you do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 2:24:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think these guys are more credible than the , “don’t talk to the cops” guys? Ayoob is a buffoon and the other guy does not have the credibility of this guy.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 2:38:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, that was a good video.
If you are guilty of a crime, don't talk to the police. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 2:42:27 AM EDT
[#4]
I agree with the "shut up" advice overall. I am interested in cops opinions.
What if we pose a "lesser" situation where you're out jogging, not far from your quiet suburban home, and you're carrying a pocket 380. A cherry red lowrider car pulls up to you. Passenger side occupant waves a gun out the window and announces a robbery. Having anticipated the potential for trouble in this instance, you are already quickly ducking back behind the car and pull out your gun. As the passenger gets out with his gun, you take a shot his way, the perp quickly ducks back in the car and they take off. You decide to call the cops right away, tell 911 of the attempted robbery and the cops arrive in 4 minutes, cuz not much happening in that suburb. In fact 3 squad cars are there in a matter of minutes. You have already put the gun back in your pocket. They ask what's up. Did you tell 911 that you fired a shot, that you are armed? Did you speak to the officers and give a description of the car and occupants, the incident in detail, which way they headed, that your shot shattered their windshield you think, that you want to do everything you can to help catch them before they get too far because you want them caught so your neighborhood is safe going forward? Or did you say you need to speak through an attorney before revealing anything about what happened? You do not know for sure whether you hit the guy or not (or I suppose even a bystander in some home several blocks down by accident). You don't think so, but it happened so fast you're not sure. No one on that block has security cameras that you know of. Are the cops gonna think you're kind of kooky to speak through an attorney at a later date before you even tell them a single thing? As far as they know, nothing happened until you tell them (unless perhaps the passenger is thrown out at the E.R.'s curb dying of a chest wound, later that night.) Do you want to help catch the perps or is your legal jeopardy the highest concern here? Are the cops going to think something is suspicious about you for lawyering up with no crime in sight (until perp maybe dies in hospital that night, who knows)? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 2:59:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with the "shut up" advice overall. I am interested in cops opinions. What if we pose a "lesser" situation where you're out jogging, not far from your quiet suburban home, and you're carrying a pocket 380. A cherry red lowrider car pulls up to you. Passenger side occupant waves a gun out the window and announces a robbery. Having anticipated the potential for trouble in this instance, you are already quickly ducking back behind the car and pull out your gun. As the passenger gets out with his gun, you take a shot his way, the perp quickly ducks back in the car and they take off. You decide to call the cops right away, tell 911 of the attempted robbery and the cops arrive in 4 minutes, cuz not much happening in that suburb. In fact 3 squad cars are there in a matter of minutes. You have already put the gun back in your pocket. They ask what's up. Did you tell 911 that you fired a shot, that you are armed? Did you speak to the officers and give a description of the car and occupants, the incident in detail, which way they headed, that your shot shattered their windshield you think, that you want to do everything you can to help catch them before they get too far because you want them caught so your neighborhood is safe going forward? Or did you say you need to speak through an attorney before revealing anything about what happened? You do not know for sure whether you hit the guy or not (or I suppose even a bystander in some home several blocks down by accident). You don't think so, but it happened so fast you're not sure. No one on that block has security cameras that you know of. Are the cops gonna think you're kind of kooky to speak through an attorney at a later date before you even tell them a single thing? As far as they know, nothing happened until you tell them (unless perhaps the passenger is thrown out at the E.R.'s curb dying of a chest wound, later that night.) Do you want to help catch the perps or is your legal jeopardy the highest concern here? Are the cops going to think something is suspicious about you for lawyering up with no crime in sight (until perp maybe dies in hospital that night, who knows)? watch the video in the quote box 2 posts up |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 3:14:05 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: watch the video in the quote box 2 posts up Yeah, I watched that video maybe 7 years ago. In fact, I made my high school son watch it. He's now a 2L in law school. I totally believe that. Question is, if a cop, himself, was the victim of an armed robbery, with no dead body at the scene, would he give details that could catch the perps escaping in a distinctive car with a broken windshield (ie. likely to be spotted within the half hour, maybe.) I think a lot of off duty cops would tell the responding cops what happened. Am I wrong? I suppose in the light of this thread, they might not, but in reality would they? If clearly not, would they at any point say they were armed and fired a shot, in the 911 call or to the cops? That is certainly potentially damaging information. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 4:26:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I watched that video maybe 7 years ago. In fact, I made my high school son watch it. He's now a 2L in law school. I totally believe that. Question is, if a cop, himself, was the victim of an armed robbery, with no dead body at the scene, would he give details that could catch the perps escaping in a distinctive car with a broken windshield (ie. likely to be spotted within the half hour, maybe.) I think a lot of off duty cops would tell the responding cops what happened. Am I wrong? I suppose in the light of this thread, they might not, but in reality would they? If clearly not, would they at any point say they were armed and fired a shot, in the 911 call or to the cops? That is certainly potentially damaging information. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: watch the video in the quote box 2 posts up Yeah, I watched that video maybe 7 years ago. In fact, I made my high school son watch it. He's now a 2L in law school. I totally believe that. Question is, if a cop, himself, was the victim of an armed robbery, with no dead body at the scene, would he give details that could catch the perps escaping in a distinctive car with a broken windshield (ie. likely to be spotted within the half hour, maybe.) I think a lot of off duty cops would tell the responding cops what happened. Am I wrong? I suppose in the light of this thread, they might not, but in reality would they? If clearly not, would they at any point say they were armed and fired a shot, in the 911 call or to the cops? That is certainly potentially damaging information. The lawyer can relay that information on his behalf. The 30 minute delay won't make a difference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 4:27:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That Ayoob, I swear. He didn't cite a single example of where his advice helped a self defense shooter's case. Who IS this hooplehead anyway?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 4:34:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with the "shut up" advice overall. I am interested in cops opinions. What if we pose a "lesser" situation where you're out jogging, not far from your quiet suburban home, and you're carrying a pocket 380. A cherry red lowrider car pulls up to you. Passenger side occupant waves a gun out the window and announces a robbery. Having anticipated the potential for trouble in this instance, you are already quickly ducking back behind the car and pull out your gun. As the passenger gets out with his gun, you take a shot his way, the perp quickly ducks back in the car and they take off. You decide to call the cops right away, tell 911 of the attempted robbery and the cops arrive in 4 minutes, cuz not much happening in that suburb. In fact 3 squad cars are there in a matter of minutes. You have already put the gun back in your pocket. They ask what's up. Did you tell 911 that you fired a shot, that you are armed? Did you speak to the officers and give a description of the car and occupants, the incident in detail, which way they headed, that your shot shattered their windshield you think, that you want to do everything you can to help catch them before they get too far because you want them caught so your neighborhood is safe going forward? Or did you say you need to speak through an attorney before revealing anything about what happened? You do not know for sure whether you hit the guy or not (or I suppose even a bystander in some home several blocks down by accident). You don't think so, but it happened so fast you're not sure. No one on that block has security cameras that you know of. Are the cops gonna think you're kind of kooky to speak through an attorney at a later date before you even tell them a single thing? As far as they know, nothing happened until you tell them (unless perhaps the passenger is thrown out at the E.R.'s curb dying of a chest wound, later that night.) Do you want to help catch the perps or is your legal jeopardy the highest concern here? Are the cops going to think something is suspicious about you for lawyering up with no crime in sight (until perp maybe dies in hospital that night, who knows)? Sounds like a condensed version would be... 911 gets a call of an attempted armed robbery. or someone brandished a gun so you shot at them. They arrive on scene with no gunshot victim neither you nor the supposed robber, no property damaged, no witnesses other than only a caller stating they are the victim of what they believe is an attempted armed robbery and the caller discharged their firearm in a residential area. Multiple units patrolled the area and did not locate the suspect vehicle ? What would they do with the evidence/statements they gathered? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 4:40:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryBut you're wrong on this. Dead wrong. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 4:47:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Jesus Tapdancing Christ is there a lot a fucked up info in this thread.
Do whatever you want I guess. Don't listen to any expert. If you don't want to go to prison for a legal UoF shooting: 1. 911: What is your emergency? 2. I'm X, X and standing in Walmart parking lot, wearing a blue shirt, etc. There is a man that has been shot, he needs medical attention; please send EMS immediately. 3. I was attacked by a man and was in fear for my life. 4. I am armed but will comply with all officers orders when they arrive. Click. 5. Officer, thank god you're here. I will put my firearm on the ground and step back from it. I was attacked by that man. I understand you may be detaining me. I will not resist. 6. Here is evidence of the attack (physical wounds, knife, gun, casings, etc). 7. Those people over there MAY have seen this attack. You should ask them. 8. I will not answer any more questions without the presence of my attorney. I'll be happy to give a statement when my attorney arrives. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 5:01:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lawyer can relay that information on his behalf. The 30 minute delay won't make a difference. 30 minutes, LOL! ITT, lawyers are "on the bench" just sitting around waiting to be called into the game. And will respond instantly. LOL! Reality is that one is fortunate enough if he knows someone to call, can leave a voice mail or talk to a receptionist and POSSIBLY get a call back within a day or two. One would have better luck getting emergency service from a plumber or electrician. Even then, 30 minutes? LOL! The "lawyer up" advice ITT is excellent but how about gaming a real-world scenario? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 5:06:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 30 minutes, LOL! ITT, lawyers are "on the bench" just sitting around waiting to be called into the game. And will respond instantly. LOL! Reality is that one is fortunate enough if he knows someone to call, can leave a voice mail or talk to a receptionist and POSSIBLY get a call back within a day or two. One would have better luck getting emergency service from a plumber or electrician. Even then, 30 minutes? LOL! The "lawyer up" advice ITT is excellent but how about gaming a real-world scenario? 1. You should have a lawyer on speed dial? 2. The cops can't legally ask you any more questions once you invoke your right to an attorney? It doesn't matter if it's 30 minutes or 3 days. Say the basics, then STFU. Real life? Stop posting. You're out of your realm Danny. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 5:23:09 AM EDT
[#14]
I witnessed an accident in front of me with a cop sitting right behind me .
Cop told me I had to make a witness statement so after he handed me a clip board I wrote "The red car hit the blue car" and gave it back to him. He laughed at first then got annoyed and said I had to use more detail. I told him that's what happened and I was done. I do not work for the cops and I am not a witness for any civil actions. If I shot someone my only statement is " I was in fear of my life and or my families life " / end of statement. You are either free to go or getting charged so STFU. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 5:40:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I witnessed an accident in front of me with a cop sitting right behind me . Cop told me I had to make a witness statement so after he handed me a clip board I wrote "The red car hit the blue car" and gave it back to him. He laughed at first then got annoyed and said I had to use more detail. I told him that's what happened and I was done. I do not work for the cops and I am not a witness for any civil actions. If I shot someone my only statement is " I was in fear of my life and or my families life " / end of statement. You are either free to go or getting charged so STFU. What if you shoot some one and the witness says "he shot him" thats it I'm done, I dont work for the cops and I'm not going to court" ? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 5:46:44 AM EDT
[#16]
After being on a grand jury for 6 months I would say you are wrong.
I watched a guy who would have been no billed by the grand jury come before the grand jury and state why he he was innocent. In Texas at least at that time you were not allowed to bring your lawyer with you. He talked himself into a unanimous felony indictment. Anytime you are talking to a cop you think you are talking to a friend. He thinks he is talking to a suspect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 5:47:56 AM EDT
[#17]
I've tried to "help" cops twice, and got fucked twice. They'll be nice to you, then fuck you over.
Keep your mouth shut! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 6:18:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After being on a grand jury for 6 months I would say you are wrong. I watched a guy who would have been no billed by the grand jury come before the grand jury and state why he he was innocent. In Texas at least at that time you were not allowed to bring your lawyer with you. He talked himself into a unanimous felony indictment. Anytime you are talking to a cop you think you are talking to a friend. He thinks he is talking to a suspect. I liked your example.... What one person does that they believe their innocence that's justified and correct ie a shooting, may not be the same thoughts to someone else when it plays out in a courtroom as clean as it seems it did on the street. LAWYER |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 6:48:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I watched that video maybe 7 years ago. In fact, I made my high school son watch it. He's now a 2L in law school. I totally believe that. Question is, if a cop, himself, was the victim of an armed robbery, with no dead body at the scene, would he give details that could catch the perps escaping in a distinctive car with a broken windshield (ie. likely to be spotted within the half hour, maybe.) I think a lot of off duty cops would tell the responding cops what happened. Am I wrong? I suppose in the light of this thread, they might not, but in reality would they? If clearly not, would they at any point say they were armed and fired a shot, in the 911 call or to the cops? That is certainly potentially damaging information. Your hypothetical scenario is an apples to rutabagas comparison. To be blunt, I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that a cop would be treated far differently from a non-LEO in this situation. Anyone who claims otherwise is blatantly lying. Do you disagree? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 7:20:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: watch the video in the quote box 2 posts up Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree with the "shut up" advice overall. I am interested in cops opinions. What if we pose a "lesser" situation where you're out jogging, not far from your quiet suburban home, and you're carrying a pocket 380. A cherry red lowrider car pulls up to you. Passenger side occupant waves a gun out the window and announces a robbery. Having anticipated the potential for trouble in this instance, you are already quickly ducking back behind the car and pull out your gun. As the passenger gets out with his gun, you take a shot his way, the perp quickly ducks back in the car and they take off. You decide to call the cops right away, tell 911 of the attempted robbery and the cops arrive in 4 minutes, cuz not much happening in that suburb. In fact 3 squad cars are there in a matter of minutes. You have already put the gun back in your pocket. They ask what's up. Did you tell 911 that you fired a shot, that you are armed? Did you speak to the officers and give a description of the car and occupants, the incident in detail, which way they headed, that your shot shattered their windshield you think, that you want to do everything you can to help catch them before they get too far because you want them caught so your neighborhood is safe going forward? Or did you say you need to speak through an attorney before revealing anything about what happened? You do not know for sure whether you hit the guy or not (or I suppose even a bystander in some home several blocks down by accident). You don't think so, but it happened so fast you're not sure. No one on that block has security cameras that you know of. Are the cops gonna think you're kind of kooky to speak through an attorney at a later date before you even tell them a single thing? As far as they know, nothing happened until you tell them (unless perhaps the passenger is thrown out at the E.R.'s curb dying of a chest wound, later that night.) Do you want to help catch the perps or is your legal jeopardy the highest concern here? Are the cops going to think something is suspicious about you for lawyering up with no crime in sight (until perp maybe dies in hospital that night, who knows)? watch the video in the quote box 2 posts up Better yet, read his book, which I have already posted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 7:27:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Here's an example of hoe NOT keeping your mouth shut can get into trouble
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2150164/George-Zimmerman-self-incriminating-statements-police.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 8:11:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you not realize that: 1. You should have a lawyer on speed dial? 2. The cops can't legally ask you any more questions once you invoke your right to an attorney? It doesn't matter if it's 30 minutes or 3 days. Say the basics, then STFU. Real life? Stop posting. You're out of your realm Danny. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 30 minutes, LOL! ITT, lawyers are "on the bench" just sitting around waiting to be called into the game. And will respond instantly. LOL! Reality is that one is fortunate enough if he knows someone to call, can leave a voice mail or talk to a receptionist and POSSIBLY get a call back within a day or two. One would have better luck getting emergency service from a plumber or electrician. Even then, 30 minutes? LOL! The "lawyer up" advice ITT is excellent but how about gaming a real-world scenario? 1. You should have a lawyer on speed dial? 2. The cops can't legally ask you any more questions once you invoke your right to an attorney? It doesn't matter if it's 30 minutes or 3 days. Say the basics, then STFU. Real life? Stop posting. You're out of your realm Danny. Yeah, 3 days is probably a bit closer to reality. No problem with stating the basics and then invoking but it sure isn't happening in 30 minutes. And I don't know ANYBODY that has a lawyer on speed-dial. Oh, wait a minute, forgot about all of the ARF millionaires that have a lawyer on retainer |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 10:44:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete.
But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 10:48:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, that was a good video. If you are guilty of a crime, don't talk to the police. In most states, anyone using a firearm in self defense is possibly guilty of at least one crime. Drew, but didn't fire: Brandishing or assault. Fired, but didn't hit: Assault or aggravated assault. (At minimum, probably firing a gun in town limits) Hit but didn't kill: Aggravated assault or attempted homicide. Killed: Homicide. Self-defense is an affirmative defense in all 50 states (I believe). Which means you committed the crime, but had a valid reason you needed to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 10:57:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nope Your attacker tossed their weapon, but you're not going to tell the first-on-scene patrol officers where it's located? Nope They will Think you planted the weapon. So nope STFU |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 10:57:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A cop friend of mine told me that are trained to get you to talk. When they arrive on the scene all they know is you're the one still holding a gun. Also, how does the cop know that you didn't provoke the attack, or fired the gun as he was running. They want to find some evidence against you and they know the laws much better than you do. That might be true if you were an unprepared idiot who only got this information on internet forums. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:01:22 AM EDT
[#27]
My father is a retired DA who says never talk to the police.
My best friend is a cop who says never talk to the police. My fiance's father is a cop who says never talk to the police. I think I'll take their advice over yours. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:03:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My father is a retired DA who says never talk to the police. My best friend is a cop who says never talk to the police. My fiance's father is a cop who says never talk to the police. I think I'll take their advice over yours. You should do that. And if you're ever in a gun fight, give them NO information which might either make you appear to be the victim of an attack or point out any evidence that could keep you from even having to call a lawyer or take the ride. Here's two real world examples of how that might work: I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv If you're not smart enough to know when and how to do that, by all means, you should totally "shut the fuck up" as many other advise here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:05:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv Still waiting on a single instance of remaining silent being used to convict. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:07:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still waiting on a single instance of remaining silent being used to convict. That's never been the issue and you know it. Fact is, there are circumstances where actually talking to the police can help save your ass. If someone can't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel, by all means, they should "shut the fuck up" and take the ride and pay for legal counsel. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:10:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Investigations last weeks, nothing besides your name needs to be said immediately. You have all the time in the world. Shut the fuck up and get an attorney.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:11:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Investigations last weeks, nothing besides your name needs to be said immediately. You have all the time in the world. Shut the fuck up and get an attorney. That can last longer than that, OR you might not even have to take the ride. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:14:43 AM EDT
[#33]
doc540, you know that you can simply refer a right honourable gentleman to a post you made some moments ago?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:19:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's never been the issue and you know it. Fact is, there are circumstances where actually talking to the police can help save your ass. If someone can't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel, by all means, they should "shut the fuck up" and take the ride and pay for legal counsel. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Still waiting on a single instance of remaining silent being used to convict. That's never been the issue and you know it. Fact is, there are circumstances where actually talking to the police can help save your ass. If someone can't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel, by all means, they should "shut the fuck up" and take the ride and pay for legal counsel. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv Copy and paste it again. You'll definitely convince me this time. Not once in American self defense history has a person's silence been used to convict them. Many, many times a person's talking to the police has been used to convict them. Your mileage may vary, but I'm going with the side that bats 1.000. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:32:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's never been the issue and you know it. Fact is, there are circumstances where actually talking to the police can help save your ass. If someone can't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel, by all means, they should "shut the fuck up" and take the ride and pay for legal counsel. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Still waiting on a single instance of remaining silent being used to convict. That's never been the issue and you know it. Fact is, there are circumstances where actually talking to the police can help save your ass. If someone can't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel, by all means, they should "shut the fuck up" and take the ride and pay for legal counsel. Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete. But.... I have three, close personal friends who have used their handguns to defend themselves. One owned a business and after having his wife zipped tied by an armed robber, and after having been shot once by the robber, he retrieved his handgun and ventilated the guy multiple times. First with a 1911 .45 ACP, then with a .357 revolver. He survived, but, amazingly after taking five torso hits, the robber survived and was sentenced. THE OTHER TWO shot their attackers who then fled the scene (one on foot, the other in a car). Both of my friends TALKED TO THE POLICE but only gave descriptions and the direction both perps fled in. They both TALKED TO THE POLICE and informed them they had scored hits on both perps. One also TOLD THE POLICE where to look for his attacker's shotgun. Then they shut up. With that little bit of extra information from TALKING TO THE POLICE, both perps were located and apprehended within an hour. Neither of my friends had to take a "ride to the station", neither had to hire an attorney, and both got their guns back. ymmv A) Your sample size of examples is ridiculously small. B) Your position is no less "staked in poured concrete". C) In any scenario where there's even a remote chance that talking to the police could possibly take your freedom away, only a fool talks. D) The motivation I have to remain a free man, both for myself and my family, is vastly more important than talking to the police in a scenario that involves a self defense shooting. There will be a time for that, but never without legal council. E) There are far more than enough examples that involve bad cops and scumbag DA's who pursue charges, for the sake of a conviction alone and not actual justice, to clearly illustrate the imperative to first have legal council and then talk to the police. Rolling the dice that you're dealing with the "good guys" is stunningly naive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:35:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cops are NOT your friend. Get a lawyer and speak thru them Excellent advice, should be taught in schools |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:44:29 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not going to change anyone's mind who has staked their position in poured concrete.  Attached File
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 11:49:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's never been the issue and you know it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Still waiting on a single instance of remaining silent being used to convict. That's never been the issue and you know it. Actually, that's exactly what we've been discussing and requesting of you this entire thread, and also what you claimed to have contacted both Ayoob and Branca about.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:01:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your attacker tossed their weapon, but you're not going to tell the first-on-scene patrol officers where it's located? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nope Your attacker tossed their weapon, but you're not going to tell the first-on-scene patrol officers where it's located? 'So you already knew the victim was unarmed, and you continued to fire anyway?!' You're taking a ride downtown. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:15:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lawyer is paid to keep your ass out of jail. The cop is paid to put your ass in jail. Point of order, the attorney that is prosecuting the case is being paid to "put your ass in jail". The District (or State) Attorney is even elected to "put your ass in jail". |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:17:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point of order, the attorney that is prosecuting the case is being paid to "put your ass in jail". The District (or State) Attorney is even elected to "put your ass in jail". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The lawyer is paid to keep your ass out of jail. The cop is paid to put your ass in jail. Point of order, the attorney that is prosecuting the case is being paid to "put your ass in jail". The District (or State) Attorney is even elected to "put your ass in jail". A distinction without difference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:21:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A distinction without difference.  I love GD. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:41:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Retired patrol lieutenant here. The problem with talking is most folks absolutely babble after a violent or use of force incident. Even cops.
If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. When we had an official use of force we would whisk the officer away from the scene back to the station where a union lawyer would be summoned. The officer would be ordered to give a statement under "Garrity" and that statement could not be used in any way legally, only departmentally. Most guys, even the very strong, wanted to yammer on about the incident. We would shut them up in an empty office until counsel arrived. You will not get that kind of treatment. I have concealed carry insurance and would call them right away. I would not talk to responding officers. There is no upside to talking to the cops. I have seen good officers trashed by neigbouring towns after use of force incidents. The system is designed to put people in jail. Justice is an abstract. Frankly, the system is frightening even to those in it. It will turn on you with the full weight of government. It is a shark; you are food. Do as you please. But understand that once the system gets ahold of you, nobody fucking cares. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:53:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retired patrol lieutenant here. The problem with talking is most folks absolutely babble after a violent or use of force incident. Even cops. If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. When we had an official use of force we would whisk the officer away from the scene back to the station where a union lawyer would be summoned. The officer would be ordered to give a statement under "Garrity" and that statement could not be used in any way legally, only departmentally. Most guys, even the very strong, wanted to yammer on about the incident. We would shut them up in an empty office until counsel arrived. You will not get that kind of treatment. I have concealed carry insurance and would call them right away. I would not talk to responding officers. There is no upside to talking to the cops. I have seen good officers trashed by neigbouring towns after use of force incidents. The system is designed to put people in jail. Justice is an abstract. Frankly, the system is frightening even to those in it. It will turn on you with the full weight of government. It is a shark; you are food. Do as you please. But understand that once the system gets ahold of you, nobody fucking cares. There you have it. The truth is frightening. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:56:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retired patrol lieutenant here. The problem with talking is most folks absolutely babble after a violent or use of force incident. Even cops. If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. When we had an official use of force we would whisk the officer away from the scene back to the station where a union lawyer would be summoned. The officer would be ordered to give a statement under "Garrity" and that statement could not be used in any way legally, only departmentally. Most guys, even the very strong, wanted to yammer on about the incident. We would shut them up in an empty office until counsel arrived. You will not get that kind of treatment. I have concealed carry insurance and would call them right away. I would not talk to responding officers. There is no upside to talking to the cops. I have seen good officers trashed by neigbouring towns after use of force incidents. The system is designed to put people in jail. Justice is an abstract. Frankly, the system is frightening even to those in it. It will turn on you with the full weight of government. It is a shark; you are food. Do as you please. But understand that once the system gets ahold of you, nobody fucking cares. There it is from the horse's mouth: "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. That is the precise point made in my first post and confirmed by both Branca and Ayoob. "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. For those that aren't smart enough to know what to day or don't have the self control to keep from babbling, indeed, SHUT THE FUCK UP, and take the ride. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 12:59:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There it is from the horse's mouth: "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. That is the precise point made in my first post and confirmed by both Branca and Ayoob. "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. For those that aren't smart enough to know what to day or don't have the self control to keep from babbling, indeed, SHUT THE FUCK UP, and take the ride. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Retired patrol lieutenant here. The problem with talking is most folks absolutely babble after a violent or use of force incident. Even cops. If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. When we had an official use of force we would whisk the officer away from the scene back to the station where a union lawyer would be summoned. The officer would be ordered to give a statement under "Garrity" and that statement could not be used in any way legally, only departmentally. Most guys, even the very strong, wanted to yammer on about the incident. We would shut them up in an empty office until counsel arrived. You will not get that kind of treatment. I have concealed carry insurance and would call them right away. I would not talk to responding officers. There is no upside to talking to the cops. I have seen good officers trashed by neigbouring towns after use of force incidents. The system is designed to put people in jail. Justice is an abstract. Frankly, the system is frightening even to those in it. It will turn on you with the full weight of government. It is a shark; you are food. Do as you please. But understand that once the system gets ahold of you, nobody fucking cares. There it is from the horse's mouth: "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. That is the precise point made in my first post and confirmed by both Branca and Ayoob. "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing. For those that aren't smart enough to know what to day or don't have the self control to keep from babbling, indeed, SHUT THE FUCK UP, and take the ride. So which part of that advice do you disagree with? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 1:02:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So which part of that advice do you disagree with? I disagree with none of it. He confirms my original point there are circumstances when it's ok to talk to the cops. "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing." It addresses those who have self control and can give a brief synopsis and those who can't. And I've given two specific example of friends that had self control and were smart enough to do just that. Neither one of them took a ride, and neither was charged. In fact, neither one had to retain an attorney. If you don't know when to talk and what to say, SHUT THE FUCK UP, and take the ride. What are you missing there? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 1:09:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree with none of it. It addresses those who have self control and can give a brief synopsis and those who can't. And I've given two specific example of friends that had self control and were smart enough to do just that. Neither one of them took a ride, and neither was charged. In fact, neither one had to retain an attorney. If you don't know when to talk and what to say, SHUT THE FUCK UP, and take the ride. What are you missing there? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So which part of that advice do you disagree with? I disagree with none of it. It addresses those who have self control and can give a brief synopsis and those who can't. And I've given two specific example of friends that had self control and were smart enough to do just that. Neither one of them took a ride, and neither was charged. In fact, neither one had to retain an attorney. If you don't know when to talk and what to say, SHUT THE FUCK UP, and take the ride. What are you missing there? Are you assuming that everyone is a professional gun fighter and will be aware of the fact that they are, or are not, in control of their adrenaline and emotions? 100% of the people that talked too much, didn't know that they talked too much. Hell, cops don't even talk to cops after a shooting. Watch any police shooting video; the next cop on the scene tells the shooter to STFU, get in the patrol car, and not say anything until they have their rep with them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 1:11:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you assuming that everyone is a professional gun fighter and will be aware of the fact that they are, or are not, in control of their adrenaline and emotions? 100% of the people that talked too much, didn't know that they talked too much. Hell, cops don't even talk to cops after a shooting. Watch any police shooting video; the next cop on the scene tells the shooter to STFU, get in the patrol car, and not say anything until they have their rep with them. Assuming? Can you read? "If you have sufficient self control to give a very brief synopsis to responding officers, do so, then shut up and invoke right to counsel. If you tend to babble, which is most folks, say nothing." Regardless if the subset is large or small, "if YOU can do it" do it. If not, SHUT THE FUCK UP and take the ride. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/6/2022 1:13:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you assuming that everyone is a professional gun fighter and will be aware of the fact that they are, or are not, in control of their adrenaline and emotions? 100% of the people that talked too much, didn't know that they talked too much. Hell, cops don't even talk to cops after a shooting. Watch any police shooting video; the next cop on the scene tells the shooter to STFU, get in the patrol car, and not say anything until they have their rep with them. And that's been repeated multiple times in this thread. Which makes the bolded portion kind of suspect and/or risky. "If you have sufficient self-control to give a brief statement and then shut up, do so. We don't think any of our own officers have that self-control so we tell them to shut up. But you might be different." |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
