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Link Posted: 4/13/2023 4:39:15 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:


In this scenario - big glass part of front door - both parties could see each other.

The question remains - the Police Chief said the wife did not know they were police when she opened fire and "I GET THAT"

Why was that ?  

Maybe the lights were on in the hallway and off in the yard ?

Maybe the police did not identify themselves ?

Maybe they were acting or sounding unlike police ?

SOMETHING led the wife ( and possibly the husband ) to not be aware those at the door were police.
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Or maybe whoever it was just shot her husband and she DGAF. Good wife.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 5:31:32 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


They knocked. They announced they were police. They had uniforms on.

Police don’t just turn the lights and siren on for every call. Not sure where that idea started. There’s usually a state code section that dictates when officers can turn on their lights. It also activates cameras and you get to review (there are three cameras in my car and one on my chest) 4 hours of video for a 1 hour domestic. Now multiply that by how many cops show up. Supervisors don’t have that time.

Now I have used my flashlight to illuminate myself especially when there are windows etc facing out and it’s dark. That’s a good idea for cold knocks. Calls for service when the occupants know you’re coming is either not necessary or stupid tactically. I’ll illuminate myself for the domestic violence suspect with a gun. Not a great plan.

Remember in the cops mind they’re there for a domestic, no one is answering and they were trying to unfuck it before this went down. Supposedly.


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A thought occured to me.

While a person considering answering his door while armed might be best advised to consider how it looks to the person at the door and might make them feel threatened........

Maybe the police should be thinking the same thing ?

"Its 1130pm and dark - maybe I will call out POLICE several times just so the occupant knows who is out here"

"The occupant is inside where it is light and we are out here in the dark - I will switch on my flashlight and illuminate my badge or police insignia"

"I am sure glad I left the blue light running to bathe the whole area in blue - the occupant will notice that"

TLDNR - both parties have a duty to not appear threatening to the other party.


They knocked. They announced they were police. They had uniforms on.

Police don’t just turn the lights and siren on for every call. Not sure where that idea started. There’s usually a state code section that dictates when officers can turn on their lights. It also activates cameras and you get to review (there are three cameras in my car and one on my chest) 4 hours of video for a 1 hour domestic. Now multiply that by how many cops show up. Supervisors don’t have that time.

Now I have used my flashlight to illuminate myself especially when there are windows etc facing out and it’s dark. That’s a good idea for cold knocks. Calls for service when the occupants know you’re coming is either not necessary or stupid tactically. I’ll illuminate myself for the domestic violence suspect with a gun. Not a great plan.

Remember in the cops mind they’re there for a domestic, no one is answering and they were trying to unfuck it before this went down. Supposedly.




Body cameras would sure answer a lot of questions...
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 5:44:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They knocked. They announced they were police. They had uniforms on.

Police don’t just turn the lights and siren on for every call. Not sure where that idea started. There’s usually a state code section that dictates when officers can turn on their lights. It also activates cameras and you get to review (there are three cameras in my car and one on my chest) 4 hours of video for a 1 hour domestic. Now multiply that by how many cops show up. Supervisors don’t have that time.

Now I have used my flashlight to illuminate myself especially when there are windows etc facing out and it’s dark. That’s a good idea for cold knocks. Calls for service when the occupants know you’re coming is either not necessary or stupid tactically. I’ll illuminate myself for the domestic violence suspect with a gun. Not a great plan.

Remember in the cops mind they’re there for a domestic, no one is answering and they were trying to unfuck it before this went down. Supposedly.


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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
A thought occured to me.

While a person considering answering his door while armed might be best advised to consider how it looks to the person at the door and might make them feel threatened........

Maybe the police should be thinking the same thing ?

"Its 1130pm and dark - maybe I will call out POLICE several times just so the occupant knows who is out here"

"The occupant is inside where it is light and we are out here in the dark - I will switch on my flashlight and illuminate my badge or police insignia"

"I am sure glad I left the blue light running to bathe the whole area in blue - the occupant will notice that"

TLDNR - both parties have a duty to not appear threatening to the other party.


They knocked. They announced they were police. They had uniforms on.

Police don’t just turn the lights and siren on for every call. Not sure where that idea started. There’s usually a state code section that dictates when officers can turn on their lights. It also activates cameras and you get to review (there are three cameras in my car and one on my chest) 4 hours of video for a 1 hour domestic. Now multiply that by how many cops show up. Supervisors don’t have that time.

Now I have used my flashlight to illuminate myself especially when there are windows etc facing out and it’s dark. That’s a good idea for cold knocks. Calls for service when the occupants know you’re coming is either not necessary or stupid tactically. I’ll illuminate myself for the domestic violence suspect with a gun. Not a great plan.

Remember in the cops mind they’re there for a domestic, no one is answering and they were trying to unfuck it before this went down. Supposedly.




I don't see anything good coming out of approaching any residence in the dark, under circumstances where it's not obvious that law enforcement is entering/on the property. At least not outside a known life or death situation, where someone innocent may be in danger. All it takes is a wrong address and you have a tragedy on either side. It's happened so many times.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 5:59:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They knocked. They announced they were police. They had uniforms on.

Police don’t just turn the lights and siren on for every call. Not sure where that idea started. There’s usually a state code section that dictates when officers can turn on their lights. It also activates cameras and you get to review (there are three cameras in my car and one on my chest) 4 hours of video for a 1 hour domestic. Now multiply that by how many cops show up. Supervisors don’t have that time.

Now I have used my flashlight to illuminate myself especially when there are windows etc facing out and it’s dark. That’s a good idea for cold knocks. Calls for service when the occupants know you’re coming is either not necessary or stupid tactically. I’ll illuminate myself for the domestic violence suspect with a gun. Not a great plan.

Remember in the cops mind they’re there for a domestic, no one is answering and they were trying to unfuck it before this went down. Supposedly.


View Quote


I accept your point on use of lights and sirens but once at the premises leaving on the blues ( or turning them on ) would help identify them.

Or even the alley light pointed at the doorway.

Interesting that you see yourself as being illuminated as making you a more visible target. Yet if the occupant were to stand in the shadows or you could not see his hands - no doubt lots of "show me your hands".

DV suspect with a gun ? You are assuming the male was the aggressor ? Maybe he called police ? Like you assume the police announced themselves ? How do you know ?

Have you seen the bodycam already ?

Speaking as a cop - when the guy answers the door, if he has a gun by his side and is calm - would that require lethal force ?

Or commands to drop the weapon first ?

Any observations on the wife not knowing police were present ?

Link Posted: 4/13/2023 6:04:42 PM EDT
[#5]
I figured this would be the FBI, but they usually shoot each other.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 7:52:11 PM EDT
[#6]
I open carry a sidearm every waking moment on my own property.  The idea that I should change my behavior based upon someone else's expectations is strange to me.  It's MY land. I am the king, and this is my castle.  I wish more people acted this way.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 9:27:28 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


I don't see anything good coming out of approaching any residence in the dark, under circumstances where it's not obvious that law enforcement is entering/on the property. At least not outside a known life or death situation, where someone innocent may be in danger. All it takes is a wrong address and you have a tragedy on either side. It's happened so many times.
View Quote

You've just described a huge percentage of calls that police respond to.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 9:52:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Not seen the body camera footage if it’s even out or if there is any don’t know all the details as a preface.

Been sent to the wrong address and have knocked on the wrong door thankfully something like this was never the result. Sometimes something as simple as call the complainant back and have them come outside or can you reconfirm the address or describe the house can fix it or running plates in driveways. Oh the numbers that fell off twenty years ago said 123 not 125 it’s the place next door.

Lights on your car or parked in a way they’re visible can be a surefire way to let someone inside know who’s knocking or at least give them a better chance of it.

Also been to a call were the reported aggressor was outside his home with his gun in his hand waving it around. Thankfully commands were given and heeded.

I’ll never say anyone shouldn’t be armed I’m armed at all times. Had I been awoken in this situation i too would have armed myself. That said going outside regardless of the known or unknown threat is a very bad move not just because of shit like this but tactically as well you’re leaving possible cover and sure concealment for the unknown. One of the many reasons I’m an advocate for cameras outside the home is the fact that not only can you see who’s outside you can often times communicate with them.

As a blanket and not necessarily about this case. Unfortunately I’ve seen people who loose their minds over “GUN”. Gun which is in a holster on person in a non threatening manner is completely different to he’s got a gun he’s pointing it at me. It’s something law enforcement has to do better training. Guns are normal, legal, and constitutionally protected items which people have, their mere presence isn’t a problem. Unfortunately a lot of times training is centered around worst case scenarios and for good reason. But it can’t be the only thing taught.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 10:02:58 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:

How would that make society better?
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Instant fix, get rid of QI.

Make them carry malpractice insurance individually.

Price cop's out of a job.

No mo po po.


How would that make society better?


Dud cops who keep getting successfully sued wouldn't be able to afford the insurance premiums at some point instead of the current rarely getting criminally charged for wrong doing and then being granted QI for the lawsuit.
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