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Link Posted: 8/23/2013 5:30:16 AM EST
[#1]
I wonder if arfcom keeps track of the team member My Board list and how many times Troy has been removed from those lists.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 5:31:24 AM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 5:38:41 AM EST
[#3]
Please, ignore the trolls. They have had their 5 minutes in the sun, now let them crawl back under the bridge where they belong.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 5:47:40 AM EST
[#4]
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Quoted:


Now is a good time to stop digging.
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...


Felon, in this sense, is defined as someone engaged in a felonious act. Sometimes the same word has more than one meaning. Not a hard concept to grasp.


Now is a good time to stop digging.


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.

"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 6:09:11 AM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.

"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
...


Felon, in this sense, is defined as someone engaged in a felonious act. Sometimes the same word has more than one meaning. Not a hard concept to grasp.


Now is a good time to stop digging.


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.

"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.


We need a "Like" button!  
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 6:28:11 AM EST
[#6]
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Quoted:

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.
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Quoted:



It bears repeating: FedDC thinks it's neither illegal nor unconstitutional to shoot an unintended person as long as you were aiming at someone else. Today has been a real eye-opener for me in terms of realizing that not only is the enemy on Arfcom...they condone the shooting of unarmed women holding babies.

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.



I think you guys are forgetting a critical piece of human behavior.  If a person receives an order, from an authority figure, they will cast aside their own morals and substitute those of the authority figure.  It is a documented, observable, repeatable, condition that explains the almost blind acceptance of unconscionable behavior in otherwise 'sane' individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Combine this 'design' of the human brain with people who are already trained to kill people, accustomed to following orders, and itching to pull the trigger and you get exactly what you saw at Ruby Ridge.

Afterwards there is always the finger pointing and the 'just following orders' explanations and obfuscation.

That is why some people have not faith in the government, or the police to protect them.  

Too many of those on the other side of that 'thin blue line' are simply willing puppets who will break 'the law' without an inkling of concern if they are simply told to do so.

TRG
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:00:37 AM EST
[#7]
No shit dead serious this weeks paycheck was goin to purchase the Alpha Rail with the sight built in the front and a Troy rear. It instead went to the Noveske NSR. The Ruby Ridge douchebag and according to the manager at Field an Streams response about carrying Troy rifles did it.

I'm sure I'm getting a much better rail but wanted to free up money for the SD3G and Acog.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:05:51 AM EST
[#8]
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Quoted:


If it was negligent, it's illegal......
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It bears repeating: FedDC thinks it's neither illegal nor unconstitutional to shoot an unintended person as long as you were aiming at someone else. Today has been a real eye-opener for me in terms of realizing that not only is the enemy on Arfcom...they condone the shooting of unarmed women holding babies.


If it was negligent, it's illegal......




From Freedom to Slavery, by Gerry Spence

Written by Randy Weaver's defense attorney, the second chapter of the paperback edition is one of the best accounts of what happened at Ruby Ridge. With Gerry Spence's permission, it is reproduced here.


Gerry Spence wrote:

And, of course, we remember that Lon Horiuchi, who had taken the stand, had testified that, indeed, he had intended to kill Kevin Harris, who was running for his life, his back to the sniper. Yet the prosecution claimed that the sniper, who admittedly could see and hit a fly at two hundred yards with his ten-power scope, could not see the head of Vicki Weaver through the glass window of the open door. Instead, the prosecution attempted to make the jury believe that the curtains were closed. But from my own discussion with Randy that fact seemed in question, especially after the government failed to produce a crucial Horiuchi drawing of what the sniper had seen when fired.

From the drawing made by Horiuchi during an interview with the FBI at a hotel, on hotel stationery, he draws in no closed curtains at all. In the lower right-hand corner of the window we see two partial heads



as if people were squatting there. Indeed, Randy and Sara had dived into the house just ahead of Kevin Harris. And it was Harris, not Weaver, who presumably had killed a federal officer, and who Horiuchi himself was admittedly trying to kill, whether or not he was carrying out the unwritten law that seemed to doom the cop-killer. Be that as it may, the method of hitting a running target is for the shooter to place the "mildot" seen in the scope on the target -- harris in this case -- which places the crosshairs ahead of the target, thus leading the target, so the bullet and the target will arrive simultaneously. Shortly after the killing this is exactly as Horiuchi himself drew it for the FBI interrogator.

Horiuchi's drawing shows us that he must have known that human beings were behind the flimsy door. He had to know that someone, presumably Vicki or ten-year-old Rachel, was likely standing behind the door to hold it open. Moreover, the drawing proves he knew exactly where it did strike -- at the cross, as he shows it in the drawing. Vicki Weaver's head was behind the cross, that apocalyptic symbol, which served also as the point of aim for the killer.

When Howen confessed to the judge that the FBI had withheld this pivotal piece of evidence, Horiuchi's drawing, His Honor, Edward Lodge, was irate. A legal as well as a moral obligation demands that the government produce all of its exculpatory evidence in its possession, that is, all evidence that is favorable to the defendant. From the outset we had told the jury that the evidence would establish that Mrs. Weaver was intentionally shot by the federal agent. The Horiuchi exhibit, withheld from us by the FBI, supported the conclusion that, at a minimum, the sniper knew human beings were behind the door into which he was shooting, presumably Vicki. But perhaps the drawing, along with the killing of Vicki Weaver, implied more -- that Horiuchi could see where his bullet would strike, that with his high-powered scope he could plainly make out the most minute details of Vicki Weaver's head and frightened face.

What does a judge do with an omnipotent FBI that will violate the law as well as the rights of innocent citizens by withholding evidence that is crucial to freedom?
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:09:31 AM EST
[#9]
As to the main discussion in the thread, I hope Troy is just taking the time to figure out their course of action to deal with terminating two new employees with contracts.

They've made some unwise decisions, and how they choose to move on from those will be very telling.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:10:58 AM EST
[#10]
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Quoted:
As to the main discussion in the thread, I hope Troy is just taking the time to figure out their course of action to deal with terminating two new employees with contracts.

They've made some unwise decisions, and how they choose to move on from those will be very telling.
View Quote


Maybe they are reading this thread with poll and deciding if pissing off 7 out of 10 potential civilian customers is a good plan.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:22:46 AM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Maybe they are reading this thread with poll and deciding if pissing off 7 out of 10 potential civilian customers is a good plan.
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As to the main discussion in the thread, I hope Troy is just taking the time to figure out their course of action to deal with terminating two new employees with contracts.

They've made some unwise decisions, and how they choose to move on from those will be very telling.


Maybe they are reading this thread with poll and deciding if pissing off 7 out of 10 potential civilian customers is a good plan.


Given that in the last day I've seen a distributor that carried ARMS mounts, and I've heard coworkers discuss using ARMS mounts because they don't know or don't care about the company's history and policies, I'd wonder if Troy isn't just looking at the bottom line.  There are a lot of people who either don't know or don't care.  Heck, I know folks who still thought HS Precision was a good company... and I educate them as best as possible, and some still don't care.

Earlier in the thread, someone noted that Larue and Troy have probably had a conversation by now.  I'd guess there's probably more behind-the-scenes stuff going on right how as they assess what to do.

Midwest calling Troy out is probably a bigger indicator as it's not just customer base, but competitors and business partners who are critical of them, and going to sever ties with them.

Or maybe they're just remembering HS precision and that searching for "HS Precision" brings back several results like this:



Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:29:19 AM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I think you guys are forgetting a critical piece of human behavior.  If a person receives an order, from an authority figure, they will cast aside their own morals and substitute those of the authority figure.  It is a documented, observable, repeatable, condition that explains the almost blind acceptance of unconscionable behavior in otherwise 'sane' individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Combine this 'design' of the human brain with people who are already trained to kill people, accustomed to following orders, and itching to pull the trigger and you get exactly what you saw at Ruby Ridge.

Afterwards there is always the finger pointing and the 'just following orders' explanations and obfuscation.

That is why some people have not faith in the government, or the police to protect them.  

Too many of those on the other side of that 'thin blue line' are simply willing puppets who will break 'the law' without an inkling of concern if they are simply told to do so.

TRG
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Quoted:
Quoted:



It bears repeating: FedDC thinks it's neither illegal nor unconstitutional to shoot an unintended person as long as you were aiming at someone else. Today has been a real eye-opener for me in terms of realizing that not only is the enemy on Arfcom...they condone the shooting of unarmed women holding babies.

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.



I think you guys are forgetting a critical piece of human behavior.  If a person receives an order, from an authority figure, they will cast aside their own morals and substitute those of the authority figure.  It is a documented, observable, repeatable, condition that explains the almost blind acceptance of unconscionable behavior in otherwise 'sane' individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Combine this 'design' of the human brain with people who are already trained to kill people, accustomed to following orders, and itching to pull the trigger and you get exactly what you saw at Ruby Ridge.

Afterwards there is always the finger pointing and the 'just following orders' explanations and obfuscation.

That is why some people have not faith in the government, or the police to protect them.  

Too many of those on the other side of that 'thin blue line' are simply willing puppets who will break 'the law' without an inkling of concern if they are simply told to do so.

TRG


Excellent point. When you add in the attitudes of SRT and FedDC, it rapidly becomes lethal. They are overtly cheering and all but yearning for that kind of situation. Their behavior isn't additive to the situation; it's synergistic. The result is a series of escalating reactions. They and their ilk are the final bit of uranium, waiting to be fired at speed into the pit and reach critical mass.

The damage, fallout, and contaminated debris are all that's left after such a reaction. Instead of precision and measured response, they want scorched earth.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 7:53:36 AM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:



It bears repeating: FedDC thinks it's neither illegal nor unconstitutional to shoot an unintended person as long as you were aiming at someone else. Today has been a real eye-opener for me in terms of realizing that not only is the enemy on Arfcom...they condone the shooting of unarmed women holding babies.

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.


It truly boggles the mind.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:06:25 AM EST
[#14]
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Quoted:


It truly boggles the mind.
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Quoted:
Quoted:



It bears repeating: FedDC thinks it's neither illegal nor unconstitutional to shoot an unintended person as long as you were aiming at someone else. Today has been a real eye-opener for me in terms of realizing that not only is the enemy on Arfcom...they condone the shooting of unarmed women holding babies.

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.


It truly boggles the mind.


Beyond the excerpts I posted, read Gerry Spence's take.

http://www.ruby-ridge.com/gspence.htm

It's not just the rules of engagement, it's not just the killing, it's also the cover-up and the entire institutional culture.

Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:08:11 AM EST
[#15]
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Quoted:


Beyond the excerpts I posted, read Gerry Spence's take.

http://www.ruby-ridge.com/gspence.htm

It's not just the rules of engagement, it's not just the killing, it's also the cover-up and the entire institutional culture.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



It bears repeating: FedDC thinks it's neither illegal nor unconstitutional to shoot an unintended person as long as you were aiming at someone else. Today has been a real eye-opener for me in terms of realizing that not only is the enemy on Arfcom...they condone the shooting of unarmed women holding babies.

Even when the Federal Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility states that taking the shot at the fleeing person "you" missed did not rise to the Consitutional and legal standard of lethal force.

And that's not even addressing the point that FedDC had no issue with the HRT's unquestioning acceptance of the blatantly illegal (and unconsititutional) "kill all armed males whether they are a threat or not" self-generated ROE.

FBI agents, as well as all law enforcement professionals, recieve training in the legal standard of the use of deadly force.  Only a percieved immunity from accountability can explain such a deliberate, on-the-record decision to ignore that legal standard.


It truly boggles the mind.


Beyond the excerpts I posted, read Gerry Spence's take.

http://www.ruby-ridge.com/gspence.htm

It's not just the rules of engagement, it's not just the killing, it's also the cover-up and the entire institutional culture.



Thank you. I'll read it today.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:11:48 AM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think you guys are forgetting a critical piece of human behavior.  If a person receives an order, from an authority figure, they will cast aside their own morals and substitute those of the authority figure.  It is a documented, observable, repeatable, condition that explains the almost blind acceptance of unconscionable behavior in otherwise 'sane' individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Combine this 'design' of the human brain with people who are already trained to kill people, accustomed to following orders, and itching to pull the trigger and you get exactly what you saw at Ruby Ridge.

Afterwards there is always the finger pointing and the 'just following orders' explanations and obfuscation.

That is why some people have not faith in the government, or the police to protect them.  

Too many of those on the other side of that 'thin blue line' are simply willing puppets who will break 'the law' without an inkling of concern if they are simply told to do so.

TRG
View Quote


There are some pretty significant limits in the Milgram experiment and cooperation wasn't anywhere near 100% so please don't assume that it was or reflects even a large percentage of people's willingness.  An important aspect to Milgram was the setting in which they believed what they were doing was legal.  It also required a lot of coaching, demands, and reinforcement.  The Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents bear very little resemblance to Milgram.

Also, HRT level guys have received a lot of training and spent a lot of time learning what is and what is not legal, if for no other reason, than to understand how ROE's work.  It's clear from the factual evidence (eg balistics, scene measurements & photos) as well as testimony (eg. "looking menacingly at the helicopter") that Horiuchi, et. al. were making this stuff up as they went along.  They didn't feel compelled to do what they did as in the Milgram experiment. Rather, they were doing what they though was just.  I say just because their own testimony makes plain that they knew what they were doing was illegal, if not immoral.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:21:57 AM EST
[#17]
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Quoted:


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.


"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
...


Felon, in this sense, is defined as someone engaged in a felonious act. Sometimes the same word has more than one meaning. Not a hard concept to grasp.


Now is a good time to stop digging.


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.


"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.


In any argument, once it reaches what I call the "Six minute abs paradox" I disengage, remove the thread my my topics and move on.

In real life, the solution is to say, "Well, ain't that sumpthin?" with a drawl and walk away.

TRG
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:26:03 AM EST
[#18]
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:32:09 AM EST
[#19]

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Quoted:


They canned his ass:

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=8856
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Ummmm, I take it you didn't read the other 18 pages did you?

 
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:32:54 AM EST
[#20]
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Quoted:
They canned his ass:
[url=
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you should keep reading, there is more to the story.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:36:32 AM EST
[#21]
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:44:03 AM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

In any argument, once it reaches what I call the "Six minute abs paradox" I disengage, remove the thread my my topics and move on.

In real life, the solution is to say, "Well, ain't that sumpthin?" with a drawl and walk away.

TRG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byEkJ3zRTcY
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What is the "six minute abs paradox?"
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 8:51:34 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What is the "six minute abs paradox?"
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

In any argument, once it reaches what I call the "Six minute abs paradox" I disengage, remove the thread my my topics and move on.

In real life, the solution is to say, "Well, ain't that sumpthin?" with a drawl and walk away.

TRG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byEkJ3zRTcY


What is the "six minute abs paradox?"


Inquiring minds want to know.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 9:01:54 AM EST
[#24]
Waiting for the sub titled Hitler video on Troy and who they hired/fired-who is working on it?

Word on the Street is they are having meetings on what to do with Monroe, but I think they are going to keep him for GOV money.  If that is true, we have many choices to pick for the same type of gear.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 9:06:31 AM EST
[#25]
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Quoted:


Inquiring minds want to know.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

In any argument, once it reaches what I call the "Six minute abs paradox" I disengage, remove the thread my my topics and move on.

In real life, the solution is to say, "Well, ain't that sumpthin?" with a drawl and walk away.

TRG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byEkJ3zRTcY


What is the "six minute abs paradox?"


Inquiring minds want to know.


Video says it all.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 9:07:04 AM EST
[#26]
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Quoted:


What is the "six minute abs paradox?"
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Quoted:

In any argument, once it reaches what I call the "Six minute abs paradox" I disengage, remove the thread my my topics and move on.

In real life, the solution is to say, "Well, ain't that sumpthin?" with a drawl and walk away.

TRG [url=[/url]


What is the "six minute abs paradox?"


I take it as, if you mention something and the other person in the conversation starts to go full retard "its time to pee"
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 9:09:38 AM EST
[#27]
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They canned his ass:
http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=8856
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umm...you have some catching up to do . That was the day before yesterday.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 9:15:38 AM EST
[#28]
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Quoted:


Video says it all.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

In any argument, once it reaches what I call the "Six minute abs paradox" I disengage, remove the thread my my topics and move on.

In real life, the solution is to say, "Well, ain't that sumpthin?" with a drawl and walk away.

TRG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byEkJ3zRTcY


What is the "six minute abs paradox?"


Inquiring minds want to know.


Video says it all.


Can't watch video at the moment. Besides, ain't nobody got time fo dat!
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 9:35:05 AM EST
[#29]
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Quoted:


I take it as, if you mention something and the other person in the conversation starts to go full retard "its time to pee"
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Finally saw the video. It also reminds me of Spinal Tap.


Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 10:20:48 AM EST
[#30]






 
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 10:52:45 AM EST
[#31]
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Love it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 11:08:31 AM EST
[#32]
pretty close to close of business for the week. troy should have the shovel in hand ready to put more foot in mouth.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 11:21:44 AM EST
[#33]
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Quoted:
pretty close to close of business for the week. troy should have the shovel in hand ready to put more foot in mouth.
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I can't wait to see how they try to tell us again that we just don't understand if we've never worn a uniform...never mind that MANY of us actually have worn a uniform, LEO or .mil. Whomever they have running the PR at Troy should be booted out on their pathetic ass. They took a bad situation and escalated it to full-blown hate for Troy. The tired lines of "we've stood for the 2nd Amendment before" and "we are the ONLY ethical company to do this" don't hold a single ounce of weight.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 11:25:19 AM EST
[#34]
Dear Troy,

Many of my friends and most of my family members have worn a military or police uniform at some point in their careers. I can't seem to find any of them that endorse, support, or approve of snipers shooting unarmed American women holding their babies in their arms on their own property. I promise to keep asking around, but so far your employee is the only one I have heard of that supports that action.

Best of luck with your choices.

Undefined
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 12:02:05 PM EST
[#35]
Bump back up to the top.  FTROY
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 12:17:29 PM EST
[#36]
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Quoted:


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.

"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.
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...


Felon, in this sense, is defined as someone engaged in a felonious act. Sometimes the same word has more than one meaning. Not a hard concept to grasp.


Now is a good time to stop digging.


I disagree. Hand him a shovel and see just how far he can go.

He deems himself arbiter of legal vocabulary, and the actual definition of "having been convicted of a felony in a court of law" does not fit his construct. As I've commented in other posts, this is a sterling example of a disconnect from accepted common ground. He is free to do what he wants, because he can freely adjust his morals to fit his actions.

"Not a hard concept to grasp." If we don't agree with his definition, we are dismissed and derided. There's the narcissistic anger I described when his reality testing is challenged. He knows he has determined himself to be the determiner of law and punishment. Such is the mentality that escalates a standoff to a "kill on sight" situation.

Those three sentences are quite telling. He succinctly told us that he determines who is and is not guilty.  Someone with a moral compass might be more likely to use any number of words. "Subject." "Suspect." "Perpetrator." "Actor." "Individual apparently committing a crime." Not him. Not FedDC. They eschew due process and assume conviction of guilt.

It's deplorable. It's immoral. It's illegal. When we, as a society, select leaders who foster this culture in the justice system, we have cankered our very soul as a nation.


Very well said.


Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:09:19 PM EST
[#37]


ETA:

I just posted the screen cap, I'm NOT validating their opinion.

I'm actually saddened by this, I hoped Troy would see the light in the end. However, based on my own insight into the events - as well as the evidence now available, I regret to say that I am no longer a Troy customer.

I thought long and hard to avoid a "knee-jerk" reaction to what might have been chaff in the wind, but I think I've reached that point.


It's a shame really...
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:17:26 PM EST
[#38]
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:20:27 PM EST
[#39]
Daniel Defense, here I come
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:21:33 PM EST
[#40]

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Quoted:


http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/TeufelTexan/ARF/Untitled_zpsd1965042.png



ETA:



I just posted the screen cap, I'm NOT validating their opinion.



I'm actually saddened by this, I hoped Troy would see the light in the end. However, based on my own insight into the events - as well as the evidence now available, I regret to say that I am no longer a Troy customer.



I thought long and hard to avoid a "knee-jerk" reaction to what might have been chaff in the wind, but I think I've reached that point.





It's a shame really...
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I'm with you on this....

 
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:25:08 PM EST
[#41]
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Fuck Troy
Fuck Obama
Fuck Gary Coleman
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I get the other two but come on. What did that little bastard do?
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:26:29 PM EST
[#42]
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Quoted:
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/TeufelTexan/ARF/Untitled_zpsd1965042.png

ETA:

I just posted the screen cap, I'm NOT validating their opinion.

I'm actually saddened by this, I hoped Troy would see the light in the end. However, based on my own insight into the events - as well as the evidence now available, I regret to say that I am no longer a Troy customer.

I thought long and hard to avoid a "knee-jerk" reaction to what might have been chaff in the wind, but I think I've reached that point.


It's a shame really...
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So, they stab us in the back for the man who would shoot us in the back?
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:34:26 PM EST
[#43]
Serious tangential question:  Is "Operator" a real title?  I know some of the buzzword video types use it and it is thrown around as a joke all the time, but in this important announcement Mr. Troy refered to Mr. Monroe as "an FBI HRT Operator."   It made me pause and wonder it that is influence from the training courses side of the Troy family of companies, missing  the irony online, or an actual title.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:36:19 PM EST
[#44]
Testing, testing.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:36:46 PM EST
[#45]
Well, Troy can officially fuck off.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:40:01 PM EST
[#46]
Time for talk is over.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:47:11 PM EST
[#47]
So when is ARFCOM breaking all ties with Troy?
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:48:08 PM EST
[#48]
HS Precision.

Cooper Firearms.

Jim Zumbo.

Jerry Tsai and Recoil magazine.

Troy Industries.
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:49:43 PM EST
[#49]
Well,

They posted what they are going to do, and they did it before the weekend.  My next builds will not have any Troy parts and MI will be getting my business.  I will do my part to tell everyone I build an AR not to use TROY products.  

GOV business must be better than civilian business, because they just ticked off the civilian base........................
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:50:46 PM EST
[#50]
Not much needs to be said, really.

I find no evidence anywhere to point to Mr. Monroe having had a change of heart with respect to constitutionality of the second shot or ROE. Nowhere have I seen him on record about the lessons learned from the tragedy, other than saying chiefly the following:

1: He concentrated only on armed males and did not fire because he did not have a clear shot.
2: He considered the ROE to be a green light to shoot armed males on sight.
3: He believed the second shot was constitutional.

Unless evidence to the contrary is proven, I can only assume that he has been promulgating flawed "lessons learned" for the last 20 years. Troy has done nothing to reassure me that he is preventing another tragedy by giving him a paid position as an official representative of the company.

I made the following comment late this morning in another thread:

Someone is locked in an office right now, doing a risk-benefit matrix.
Potential lost consumer sales on one side.  On the other: potential lost government contracts and expenses related to severing a trainer's contract.

I have too little faith in them, especially after their "you don't understand dynamic situations" claim, to believe it will come down to anything other than finances.  Color me cynical, but I think they are going to with the lucrative training revenue stream. They hired these guys for halo branding and networking.  I think they knew exactly what was on their resumes, and wanted to monetize it.
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