User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:36:43 PM EDT
[#1]
lol, the fan base sure is dedicated.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:42:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its not like you can't shoot when your dot goes out. The dot going out is preferable because that way it won't tempt you into actually aiming. I mount a dot for redundancy, then tape over both it and my irons to force myself to point shoot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:43:27 PM EDT
[#3]
All pistols? lol
No. I don't have that much $.  I'm a late adopter. Just got an Acro P-2 and love it. Also have an RMR I'll probably mount on something. It was going to be #1, but then I decided on the P-2 for my G47 for duty use instead. Looking forward to seeing an RCR. Not sure if I'll buy one yet. I think I'll wait for the next gen of CC-size closed emitters before picking up anything for a G43X or G48. I may just get a 19 gen5 and stick my RMR on that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:47:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Optics for range toys and "tactical" toys. Irons, or no sights, for CCW. I could care less if my Trijicon dots are lit, etc. Point and shoot. Any further than that and I'm either evading, or using a long gun |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:49:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Iron sights never fog up and their batteries never run down.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:50:10 PM EDT
[#6]
All my glocks have Trijicons except my everyday carry 43x.
That gun is left completely stock with irons. I figure if God forbid I need it, it will close enough where Im legally protected, and Im not afraid of having it taken afterwards. That and the RR style optics are not usable in my opinion. too small for fast protection work. Optics are the way on everything else. Even my g21 woods gun has one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:52:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All my glocks have Trijicons except my everyday carry 43x. That gun is left completely stock with irons. I figure if God forbid I need it, it will close enough where Im legally protected, and Im not afraid of having it taken afterwards. That and the RR style optics are not usable in my opinion. too small for fast protection work. Optics are the way on everything else. Even my g21 woods gun has one. What does this mean? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:54:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Optics for range toys and "tactical" toys. Irons, or no sights, for CCW. I could care less if my Trijicon dots are lit, etc. Point and shoot. Any further than that and I'm either evading, or using a long gun 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:55:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Only the ones that matter.
The Single Six will never see one, as an example.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 3:59:15 PM EDT
[#10]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:04:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does this mean? Former law enforcement, former military. Protected for me means I need to remain inside the law if I use a pistol. Distance, threat levels as I perceive them and what can be proved. Although I prefer red dots on all my pistols, Im not a fan of the "rr" series mini dots, I also like my outline/print being small as possible, I do not use my CCW for longer range shooting, it has been a deep concealed back up. I have seen first hand those proving their shoot in a courtroom that came down to distance and the ability to escape. As I said God forbid it comes time to use that pistol it's going to be a last resort. Its a 43x, Im not shooing it 50 yards. I also prefer my everyday carry to be a little more impervious to weather, and general beat downs. I dont want to maintain battery life, I dont want to remember to turn it off or on. I want to train with it monthly, sometimes weekly, and generally not care about it whatsoever. Although I do on occasion when weather permits wear a 19, or even a 21 with RDS on them as a daily. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:06:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former law enforcement, former military. Protected for me means I need to remain inside the law if I use a pistol. Distance, threat levels as I perceive them and what can be proved. Although I prefer red dots on all my pistols, Im not a fan of the "rr" series mini dots, I also like my outline/print being small as possible, I do not use my CCW for longer range shooting, it has been a deep concealed back up. I have seen first hand those proving their shoot in a courtroom that came down to distance and the ability to escape. As I said God forbid it comes time to use that pistol it's going to be a last resort. Its a 43x, Im not shooing it 50 yards. I also prefer my everyday carry to be a little more impervious to weather, and general beat downs. I dont want to maintain battery life, I dont want to remember to turn it off or on. I want to train with it monthly, sometimes weekly, and generally not care about it whatsoever. Although I do on occasion when weather permits wear a 19, or even a 21 with RDS on them as a daily. Great. Which law, exactly? Being a matter of public record, please give some evidence regarding a case which went poorly due to the shooting occurring beyond an arbitrary range. That should be easy as you’ve seen them first hand. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:06:28 PM EDT
[#13]
New optics for old eyes.
I shoot just as well with iron sights, but without my glasses I'm shooting at fuzzy figures. Give me a circle and a dot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:17:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There isn’t any. Drawing and presenting your gun and seeing a dot superimposed on your target is a simpler process than aligning a metal post in one location with a metal notch in a second location with a target in a third focal plane. I like easier. It’s faster and more accurate. If your dot presentation aligns the dot on target. Then your iron presentation will have the post in the notch and on target. The gun either points where you look or it doesn't |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:19:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great. Which law, exactly? Being a matter of public record, please give some evidence regarding a case which went poorly due to the shooting occurring beyond an arbitrary range. That should be easy as you’ve seen them first hand. Thanks. There is no standing law on distance. But there are attorneys who can use distance against you in a self defense shooting. Happens all the time. Civilian and law enforcement. Attorney planting a seed on a jury is bad news. Ive been running dots on agency guns for a long time out of a dozen personal pistols only one of mine does not have a dot. Im a huge believer in them. THOUSANDS of hours of training with them. Thousands of dollars. While I do agree many people bash what they dont understand when it comes to RDS topped guns, alot of which is hearsay or wives tails. But not sure your place in all of this, Ive read the entire thread and you have attacked a hand full of people on here, down talked people and pretty much ran your mouth and not sure why. If some people dont want too use RDS why does that matter that much to you? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:21:20 PM EDT
[#16]
No. I admit they are better and I mostly carry with a dot. But sometimes I’ll shoot for fun and being a 20 year competitive iron sight shooter, I can still throw rounds faster and more accurately with irons than my buddies can with dots.
I’m also faster than that with dots. So I guess just it boils down to I don’t wanna. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:22:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: RDS on pistols have gotten more popular. Some handguns don't lend themselves to having a RDS due to design. Others do. Are you moving to RDS on all pistols that you can? Why keep any with iron sights if you don't have to? For me the decision was made for me at my last prescription change. Like most men, once I hit my early 40’s, I couldn’t keep a prescription for more than 6 months until my eyes stabilized. The last one meant bifocals or transitions for me so there was/is no choice if I want to maintain the proficiency I have invested in. Now I tell all of the young guys that they should make the switch as early as possible because it’s cheaper in the long run. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:23:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. Why are you confident? What standards are you training to? Where do you think that lands you on this chart? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/74C7D9C5-08E5-44DA-9A05-E144584F8186_jpe-3039597.JPG I'm on the slope of enlightenment. You're on the first part "Mount Know-it-All" |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:23:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Iron sights never fog up and their batteries never run down. Neither does an Aimpoint . 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:24:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no standing law on distance. But there are attorneys who can use distance against you in a self defense shooting. Happens all the time. Civilian and law enforcement. Attorney planting a seed on a jury is bad news. Ive been running dots on agency guns for a long time out of a dozen personal pistols only one of mine does not have a dot. Im a huge believer in them. THOUSANDS of hours of training with them. Thousands of dollars. While I do agree many people bash what they dont understand when it comes to RDS topped guns, alot of which is hearsay or wives tails. But not sure your place in all of this, Ive read the entire thread and you have attacked a hand full of people on here, down talked people and pretty much ran your mouth and not sure why. If some people dont want too use RDS why does that matter that much to you? Wait… I thought there was a range at which I’d be legally protected. I’m just curious as to what that range is. If this happens all the time please help me with some case law so we can determine that range. Like… is it five yards? Seven yards? Your statement was that you only plan on using a handgun at ranges at which you’re legally protected… I’d like to be legally protected as well. Help us out here. I’m not attacking anyone, beyond a couple of jokes, it’s just that people keep using arguments which are ridiculously incorrect on the merits. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:25:07 PM EDT
[#21]
If I remember correctly it was guys like Gabe Suarez who popularized RDS outside of gun racing.
Initially as a means of extending the effective engagement range of a carry handgun in a scenario where you might be facing an active shooter with a rifle. Later, it was found that they also do a lot of other things well, not to mention are a means of considerable profit, and so here we are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:25:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your dot presentation aligns the dot on target. Then your iron presentation will have the post in the notch and on target. The gun either points where you look or it doesn't I absolutely agree with this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:26:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm on the slope of enlightenment. You're on the first part "Mount Know-it-All" Not really. But I definitely was there 20 years ago. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:31:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Iron sights have worked well for a long time. They are rugged, cheap and small. I like them. Same here. I’ve tried RDSs out, and they’re awesome, but I’m fine without them. I shoot an awful lot and I’m happy with irons. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:39:15 PM EDT
[#25]
I have several pistols with optics, including my carry 365XL.
I've shot drills but not in the clock. It doesn't slow me down (practice, imagine that) and gives me precision with less concentration required. My newer woods gun (m&p 10mm) also wears a dot. Pegged this guy climbing a tree at ~20 yd center mass this morning. Should make a neat mount if we can patch up the entry hole  Attached FileFYI, Night Fision "non cowitness" sights and the Holosun SCS are my favorite combo so far. Presentation is just like my other M&Ps, including the one i use in matches with irons. The dot is just there waiting on me, and the irons are perfectly useable if it fails.  Attached File Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#26]
The Eli Dicken CCW encounter was initially started at 42 yards. He used open sights and blazer brass FMJ. Imagine him describing his setup in this thread. Some here would tell him how he wouldn't survive and how ill trained and ill equipped he was.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:46:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Two out of twelve of my pistols have RDS. Not looking to install any more unless I deem it necessary for peak performance.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:47:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Eli Dicken CCW encounter was initially started at 42 yards. He used open sights and blazer brass FMJ. Imagine him describing his setup in this thread. Some here would tell him how he wouldn't survive and how ill trained and ill equipped he was. Not at all. As I said, you can achieve a high level of proficiency with irons. It’s obvious that he trained for more than, “I won’t have to use my gun beyond five yards.” In fact, that and the White Settlement church shooting should be pointed out as a case study in every one of these threads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:48:51 PM EDT
[#29]
I’ve gone completely to RDS equipped pistols for CC, outside of a few deep carry/NPE niche guns.
But now that I have multiple carry guns with optics, backups with optics and 22LR trainer/target pistols with optics, I have my optics bases covered for now. I still have a bunch of other pistols in the safe, and I don’t see a need to start cutting every pistol for an optic, particularly guns that were manufactured well before I was born. At this point, rather than buying more optics and paying for slide cuts I’ll spend the money on ammo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:52:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Taylor Swift is popular too, doesn’t mean it’s the best option for music. Music taste is subjective. Red dot speed(presentation, transition and follow up shots) on target is not. Did you miss the 100+ page thread on this subject that's been going on for over a year? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:53:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 years of USPSA I never saw a guy not be able to find his irons. 100% agree. It's easy to tell who really shoots in this thread. 30 years of shooting I've never felt I needed an optic to hit stuff at pistol distances. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 4:57:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no standing law on distance. But there are attorneys who can use distance against you in a self defense shooting. Happens all the time. Civilian and law enforcement. Attorney planting a seed on a jury is bad news. Ive been running dots on agency guns for a long time out of a dozen personal pistols only one of mine does not have a dot. Im a huge believer in them. THOUSANDS of hours of training with them. Thousands of dollars. While I do agree many people bash what they dont understand when it comes to RDS topped guns, alot of which is hearsay or wives tails. But not sure your place in all of this, Ive read the entire thread and you have attacked a hand full of people on here, down talked people and pretty much ran your mouth and not sure why. If some people dont want too use RDS why does that matter that much to you? So, you're going to cite case law, or not? Or is this another one of those fuddlore bullshit fairy tales akin to "if you modify your gun, you'll go to prison for a good shoot?" |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:00:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For me, irons for precision and dots for speed. Is this a joke 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:03:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 years of USPSA I never saw a guy not be able to find his irons. Then you also probably routinely saw that at the high levels, the dot shooters always had lower raw time(and probably better hits) than the Iron shooters, right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:03:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you're going to cite case law, or not? Or is this another one of those fuddlore bullshit fairy tales akin to "if you modify your gun, you'll go to prison for a good shoot?" Look. There is a range at which you are legally protected. But that range is secret. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:05:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then you also probably routinely saw that at the high levels, the dot shooters always had lower raw time(and probably better hits) than the Iron shooters, right? That’s crazy talk.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:08:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Irons have built in triple redundancy. Under normal conditions you ignore them and point shoot because all gunfights take place from 7-10 yards and you only need to land hits anywhere on a silhouette. If your front sight falls off you can ignore your rear sight and point shoot, if your rear sight falls off you can ignore your front sight and point shoot, and if both fall off you can point shoot without the distraction of sights. LOL. Tell me. Do you think this shooter is using his optic? It's only 30 feet. There are also penalties involved for landing hits "anywhere" on a silhouette. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/At5qXI7ZOYU |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:10:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100% agree. It's easy to tell who really shoots in this thread. 30 years of shooting I've never felt I needed an optic to hit stuff at pistol distances. No one says you NEED one. That isn't the argument. The argument is that any given shooter will always be faster with the optic equipped gun, at any distance. (given proper training) |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:12:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look. There is a range at which you are legally protected. But that range is secret. I thought it was negotiated? Like, I wasn't using hollow points, so I should be able to shoot 10 yards further? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:13:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s crazy talk. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/FB138227-8FEE-4B31-89F0-70C1F353A2EA_png-3039840.JPG WILL THIS GO TO 100 |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:18:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought it was negotiated? Like, I wasn't using hollow points, so I should be able to shoot 10 yards further? Oh wait… I like this. Local DA’s could hand out like a slide-rule thingy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:21:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Who cares.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:22:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WILL THIS GO TO 100 I hope so. I need something to do while I’m babysitting this thing.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:25:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope so. I need something to do while I’m babysitting this thing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/FF08935A-73D2-40EB-B034-939935EBDBB1_jpe-3039872.JPG Fah-Q I got 3K coming Monday. Gonna be a lot of pulling. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:26:31 PM EDT
[#45]
I have a horrible level of astigmatism in both eyes.
I dislike red dots. I have to adjust the brightness level all the time. Sun's out? dial up. Cloud blocks sun? dial down. Sun returns? dial up. If I don't I'm looking at a comet tail and not a dot. My accuracy drops with a dot but my splits improve, but not enough to justify going with dots. Back when I first got in to dots, I had a different prescription so I essentially saw 3 inverted horseshoes overlapping each other. So I shot the middle horseshoe which worked. New prescription turned that in to a comet tail pointing at 2 o'clock. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:29:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fah-Q I got 3K coming Monday. Gonna be a lot of pulling. Honestly, if you’re thinking about an Autodrive, it’s worth it. Best money I ever spent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:30:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm on the slope of enlightenment. You're on the first part "Mount Know-it-All" Your post makes me think you been doing a lot of what that avatar of yours is showing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:31:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Pushing a button is inconvenient, and so is changing a battery once a year
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:33:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, if you’re thinking about an Autodrive, it’s worth it. Best money I ever spent. I am thinking about it, but I am also thinking about this...  Attached FileOther problem - I have a Hornady press. If I'm going to have an autodrive then I'm going to get a blue press. That's a lot of money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2023 5:33:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares. RDS fans, cousins to the pit bull apologist. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File