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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:34:33 PM EDT
[#1]
I've never considered putting a dot on a pistol. I'm pretty low tech for sure.
Seems like it would be faster though. What is the durability like. I woukd think they'd have to be pretty damn tough being on a moving slide like they are. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:37:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RDS fans, cousins to the pit bull apologist. Found the guy who can't shoot. 
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:37:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one says you NEED one. That isn't the argument. The argument is that any given shooter will always be faster with the optic equipped gun, at any distance. (given proper training) But why? Is a red dot sight seen sooner than irons on target?. Can you point a red dot gun faster? People aren't faster with a dot, they really are just slower with irons. They are doing everything at the same speed, but when it comes down to it, they are doing a multi-step confirmation (front post in notch, front post on target) with irons when they do a single confirmation (dot on sight) with a dot. When you stop doing a mental confirmations for either, the times are the same. When the sights are seen on target, the shot breaks. No need to confirm. Use the front sight like it is a red dot. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:37:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never considered putting a dot on a pistol. I'm pretty low tech for sure. Seems like it would be faster though. What is the durability like. I woukd think they'd have to be pretty damn tough being on a moving slide like they are. As of yesterday I have 22,000 rounds on a slide-ride Trijicon SRO. No problems with it, still holds zero. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:38:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Found the guy who can't shoot. 23 lololol |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:40:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People aren't faster with a dot, they really are just slower with irons. Engrish says what? You can argue semantics and technicalities all you'd like, the timer doesn't lie. For an extremely high level shooter the difference may be negligible, but it will still be there. For a lower level shooter, the difference will be noticeable. Training issue? Perhaps so. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:40:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 23 lololol You're close. 22 thousand rounds YTD. Add dry fire and you can triple it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:42:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RDS fans, cousins to the pit bull apologist. I personally hate all dogs but love RDS. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:48:59 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:49:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryLook at all that BULK 
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:51:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As of yesterday I have 22,000 rounds on a slide-ride Trijicon SRO. No problems with it, still holds zero. I’m still waiting for this one to take a shit.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:51:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're close. 22 thousand rounds YTD. Add dry fire and you can triple it. Dry firing every 8 minutes (or greater in only 11 months) is some serious autist shit. I was going to call BS but it kinda fits the mold considering your posting behaviors. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:53:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Engrish says what? You can argue semantics and technicalities all you'd like, the timer doesn't lie. For an extremely high level shooter the difference may be negligible, but it will still be there. For a lower level shooter, the difference will be noticeable. Training issue? Perhaps so. Correct, the timer doesn't lie. And when you stop doing unnecessary steps, your times go down. People have convinced themselves that more steps are needed with irons than a dot...that is not the case |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:58:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dry firing every 8 minutes (or greater in only 11 months) is some serious autist shit. I was going to call BS but it kinda fits the mold considering your posting behaviors. Fucking wut |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:58:27 PM EDT
[#15]
I was thinking about upgrading from my standard gen 5 G19 to a new MOS G19 and putting one of the holoson enclosed emitter dots on it but my favorite holster doesnt make a holster for that setup. I run a safariland ALS btw.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:07:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: RDS and light only on home defense weapon. CCW neither. Research has shown that nearly all SD situations are within a few yards and practically never go to a second mag. Dots and irons within a few yards would not make a difference for me. Me CCW, g26, irons, NS, IWB. Any additions makes it cumbersome for no reason. That is me. YMMV. Quoted: I'm perfectly confident the iron sights having CC guns I use will get me through any self defense encounter I might find myself in. I don't feel the need to larp like I'm some special forces soldier. LOL... These threads are always entertaining! People can always predict what their gunfight is going to be. If you have superior gear/equipment and practice with it, you're a SF larper now? I'm also shocked at how many people pocket carry. The only people that I personally know who do are severely obese. It is also slow as fuck. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:11:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great. Which law, exactly? Being a matter of public record, please give some evidence regarding a case which went poorly due to the shooting occurring beyond an arbitrary range. That should be easy as you’ve seen them first hand. Thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Former law enforcement, former military. Protected for me means I need to remain inside the law if I use a pistol. Distance, threat levels as I perceive them and what can be proved. Although I prefer red dots on all my pistols, Im not a fan of the "rr" series mini dots, I also like my outline/print being small as possible, I do not use my CCW for longer range shooting, it has been a deep concealed back up. I have seen first hand those proving their shoot in a courtroom that came down to distance and the ability to escape. As I said God forbid it comes time to use that pistol it's going to be a last resort. Its a 43x, Im not shooing it 50 yards. I also prefer my everyday carry to be a little more impervious to weather, and general beat downs. I dont want to maintain battery life, I dont want to remember to turn it off or on. I want to train with it monthly, sometimes weekly, and generally not care about it whatsoever. Although I do on occasion when weather permits wear a 19, or even a 21 with RDS on them as a daily. Great. Which law, exactly? Being a matter of public record, please give some evidence regarding a case which went poorly due to the shooting occurring beyond an arbitrary range. That should be easy as you’ve seen them first hand. Thanks. The APD officer making 2 hits at 165m with his .40, on that asshole shooting up a building with an AK comes to mind. I will continue to argue though that on the "must disappear" form factor, a CT-like laser ends up working better than even an RMRcc. Both eyes open, and I'm not consciously looking for the dot. It's just there. (I still have Kahr's trigger pull, and a likely malfunction drill to deal with, but that's on me) |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:12:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Jacket pockets are a thing. Not slow at all. I am far from obese, but I do that all the time.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:13:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh wait… I like this. Local DA’s could hand out like a slide-rule thingy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought it was negotiated? Like, I wasn't using hollow points, so I should be able to shoot 10 yards further? Oh wait… I like this. Local DA’s could hand out like a slide-rule thingy. You're going to need a Family Guy color chart too. 
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:15:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Depends on your philosophy of use.
I expect my pistol to work at both short and longer ranges if need be; I may not always have a long gun available. Can I make 100 yrd shots with irons? Sure. Can I do it way better and easier with an RDS? Absolutely. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:18:14 PM EDT
[#21]
RDS on pistols are nice but not for me.
My handgun skills are marginal at best at anything over 10 yards or so. Red dots on rifles are a godsend to me but in my CCW they would just be a hindrance. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:19:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. Tried it, but didn't like it on my Sig P365 XL. Red dots are nice for long distance shooting, but I have a rifle with a red dot for that. I don't have a problem hitting a human sized target within 20 yards anyway. For cc my dot kept getting all dirty from ball dust and pocket lint, I don't have to worry about that as much with iron sights. That was my experience as well on my P365 XMacro. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:24:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Yes. I have a small pistol collection, and I want to put dots on most of them. It’s not a priority, but yes. My 2 main pistols have dots.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:25:39 PM EDT
[#24]
negative.
too poor to participate in the RDS revolution. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:30:48 PM EDT
[#25]
I have exactly one. I've done a few range trips and it just isn't for me.
I want to trade it to someone for their slide and something else. It slowed me down. Laser did the same when I tried that.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:31:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: negative. too poor to participate in the RDS revolution. Serious question: Do you want to but finances don’t permit right now? Also, do you have something with a pic rail? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:32:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have exactly one. I've done a few range trips and it just isn't for me. I want to trade it to someone for their slide and something else. It slowed me down. Laser did the same when I tried that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/112839/1700951269483_jpg-3040016.JPG Did you do any dryfire? First time I shot a handgun optic I fucking hated it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:33:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gonna send in a couple Glock slides to Battlewerks when I get the money. I have some debt to take care of first. Plus, I'll need not only a couple rds, but also suppressor height sights. That will add up quick. I'm doing ok, but I'm not rich or even upper middle class. It’s probably been mentioned already but you won’t need the irons once you have a good dot mounted. I get wanting to have backups. I did the same thing with my rifle. And my G45. Aimpoint and RMR. I’ve never once used the irons on any gun I’ve got a dot on. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:35:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Yes, anything I carry, has or will have green dot sights.
Irons are great, my eyes say to hell with irons. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:35:37 PM EDT
[#30]
I like both
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:36:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. Show us the research. Also, how are you predicting how your defensive encounter will shake out? Please predict mine so I can adjust my gear accordingly. Thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RDS and light only on home defense weapon. CCW neither. Research has shown that nearly all SD situations are within a few yards and practically never go to a second mag. Dots and irons within a few yards would not make a difference for me. Me CCW, g26, irons, NS, IWB. Any additions makes it cumbersome for no reason. That is me. YMMV. Cool. Show us the research. Also, how are you predicting how your defensive encounter will shake out? Please predict mine so I can adjust my gear accordingly. Thanks. 33,000 SD situations only 1 went a 2nd mag.(John Correia NRA 23) Long distances SD comes into question. That's enough. By the way, I said for me and YMMV. RIF. If you want a light and and dot to do SD at 50 yards and wear a plate....go for it. Let's try this again....YMMV. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:49:18 PM EDT
[#32]
RD acquisition just takes time to get down. For those who put in the time after using irons, or have used them from the very beginning such as a new shooter who never had a pistol without RD, will in general prefer RD over irons 9 times out of 9.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:53:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dry firing every 8 minutes (or greater in only 11 months) is some serious autist shit. I was going to call BS but it kinda fits the mold considering your posting behaviors. Speaking of Autist, your post makes zero sense. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:54:25 PM EDT
[#34]
No of course not.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:56:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The APD officer making 2 hits at 165m with his .40, on that asshole shooting up a building with an AK comes to mind. I will continue to argue though that on the "must disappear" form factor, a CT-like laser ends up working better than even an RMRcc. Both eyes open, and I'm not consciously looking for the dot. It's just there. (I still have Kahr's trigger pull, and a likely malfunction drill to deal with, but that's on me) That happens with a dot as well. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:59:59 PM EDT
[#36]
I shoot ok with irons.
I may get a dot, but I am hand to mouth on ammo so that’s where my monthly gun money goes. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:01:38 PM EDT
[#37]
FPNI. The "RDS Everything!" bros are sometimes like reformed sinners. "I Saw the Light!!!!"
If you like them, fine. I have some. I don't need them on everything. You decide what's best for you. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:01:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 33,000 SD situations only 1 went a 2nd mag.(John Correia NRA 23) Long distances SD comes into question. That's enough. By the way, I said for me and YMMV. RIF. If you want a light and and dot to do SD at 50 yards and wear a plate....go for it. Let's try this again....YMMV. The guy who wears cat ears at the range? Yeah. I am certain he's watched 33,000 videos of shootings, and there's no way he's making up a number to sell his "training."  (In 2017 it was 12,000, which means he's watched/analyzed another 10 shootout videos per day, every single day, for 6 years straight) |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:03:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you do any dryfire? First time I shot a handgun optic I fucking hated it. I think it's a grip angle thing to me. I've been almost exclusively glock since the late 80's. I can look a an outlet across the house, close my eyes and raise the gun.... and I'm on it. I do point shooting drills. Not a 10 ring guy, but decently quick with center mass hits. With the optic, half of the optic cross hair is buried. Even with my aging eyes, I have a good batting average on steel at 100 yards. I just don't think I can warm up to it. I'm rural and rarely far from a rifle too. I don't doubt it's awesome for a lot of shooters, but I hate it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:05:02 PM EDT
[#40]
In a word NO. The benefits seem pretty marginal to me.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:07:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a word NO. The benefits seem pretty marginal to me. If the training is marginal, then the results will be, too. "Marginal" is subjective in a some ways, in others(timer) it is not a subjective benefit. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:12:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Imagine if the RDS naysayers spent time practicing drawing from holster, working on presentation, and dry fired instead of arguing would see themselves improve..
Just say'n. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:14:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine if the RDS naysayers spent time practicing drawing from holster, working on presentation, and dry fired instead of arguing would see themselves improve.. Just say'n. I do that, and it has improved my ability with iron sights. I don't doubt it would do so with optics, but at this stage of my life I am sticking with irons. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:15:07 PM EDT
[#44]
I relatively recently started switching over to RDS on pistols that I carry or intend on potentially carrying.
My main reason is that my vision is not what it used to be. That said, my presentation has improved and I suspect that after enough training, even if my battery died or the sight failed for some reason, I’d still be faster than with irons. YMMV |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:16:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy who wears cat ears at the range? Yeah. I am certain he's watched 33,000 videos of shootings, and there's no way he's making up a number to sell his "training." (In 2017 it was 12,000, which means he's watched/analyzed another 10 shootout videos per day, every single day, for 6 years straight) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 33,000 SD situations only 1 went a 2nd mag.(John Correia NRA 23) Long distances SD comes into question. That's enough. By the way, I said for me and YMMV. RIF. If you want a light and and dot to do SD at 50 yards and wear a plate....go for it. Let's try this again....YMMV. The guy who wears cat ears at the range? Yeah. I am certain he's watched 33,000 videos of shootings, and there's no way he's making up a number to sell his "training." (In 2017 it was 12,000, which means he's watched/analyzed another 10 shootout videos per day, every single day, for 6 years straight) He has a staff. I met the staff. Good people. Still, you need to do you. I've not spent a penny on his material. I agree, the car ears is a tad off. But so are you so it balances out. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:23:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: RDS on pistols have gotten more popular. Some handguns don't lend themselves to having a RDS due to design. Others do. Are you moving to RDS on all pistols that you can? Why keep any with iron sights if you don't have to? If I end up with another, or even a couple more, it'll be due to someone showing off a picture that screams "build me." |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:39:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it's a grip angle thing to me. I've been almost exclusively glock since the late 80's. I can look a an outlet across the house, close my eyes and raise the gun.... and I'm on it. I do point shooting drills. Not a 10 ring guy, but decently quick with center mass hits. With the optic, half of the optic cross hair is buried. Even with my aging eyes, I have a good batting average on steel at 100 yards. I just don't think I can warm up to it. I'm rural and rarely far from a rifle too. I don't doubt it's awesome for a lot of shooters, but I hate it. Are you not mounting the optic on a Glock? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:40:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 33,000 SD situations only 1 went a 2nd mag.(John Correia NRA 23) Long distances SD comes into question. That's enough. By the way, I said for me and YMMV. RIF. If you want a light and and dot to do SD at 50 yards and wear a plate....go for it. Let's try this again....YMMV. I don’t really care about the magazine thing. Still wondering about this research about range, though. For myself? I want the most capability and performance I can get from contact distance to 50 yards or so from the gun I carry every day. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:51:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both, and I prefer iron sights. Finding the "dot" I find slows me down, and I have never had iron sights fail. I will say I have not had a RDS fail, yet. If you prefer RDS that great! That's because you are shooting wrong.. you don't find the dot. You look at the target, raise your weapon then the dot transposed on the target. You don't have to look for or align your iron sights or look and search for your dot. It's a much simpler concept and works really well with both eyes open. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 7:51:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RDS and light only on home defense weapon. CCW neither. Research has shown that nearly all SD situations are within a few yards and practically never go to a second mag. Dots and irons within a few yards would not make a difference for me. Me CCW, g26, irons, NS, IWB. Any additions makes it cumbersome for no reason. That is me. YMMV. Yeah like Elija Dickens or the dude that shot the church shooter with a 357 Sig from 75 feet away. Jesus christ this place is full of ignorant luddites. |
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