Wut

Get good with what you have. No one cares if it's irons or a red dot.

Shit like this is bad for our community. If someone needs a red dot to be fast and accurate then they should use one. If they don't then it shouldn't upset anyone.

Someone shooting fast and accurate with irons shouldn't get anyone's panties in a bunch.

That’s how I’m gonna buy it. ??

That’s how I’m gonna buy it. ??

@WhiskersTheCat

You must have been brought to miracle max.  
Attached File

Who’s mad that someone is good with irons?

Nobody.

Point———-> your head.

I was 99% sure it was him but the 1% prevented me from tagging him

Mention fucked up and did not lead me to the quote

Doesn't matter Trijicon all the things

Attached File

This is where I'm at pretty much.  Sometimes I carry a g48 that is irons only though.

I fired 22 rounds today not including dry fires, so I'm pretty sure that makes me more right.

Red dot misfired.

And one ND

I got this...

[youtube]shorts/aUz781cwNPA[/youtube]

Edit, maybe I don't. On my phone,  can't fix it.

I have noticed that lately..

Embedded shorts won’t work bruh.  Embed link

My dude:

Attached File

It wasn't a "short" when I uploaded it 3 years ago. No idea how that works, not a YT guy.

I gots you boo!

LOL

This place is gold!

How many gunfights have you been in? It please tell me its more than 3.

Whoops!

Yes more than 3.. quite a few more than 3.
How many have you been in?

You really sound like someone we should all look to for advice.

As opposed to someone who completely misses the point being made?

OK

No.  I have three / four carry guns with RDSs: a Hellcat OSP with a Holsoun 407K-X2 green, a slide with a Trijicon RMRcc I can put on either a P80 subcompact or a G26.3, and a P80 compact with a Holosun 507C-X2 ACSS.  All other handguns, both revolvers and semi-autos will maintain iron saights only (except for a P80 full-size 9mm (G17 size) that I may well put a Trijican RMR on.

If your first post was sarcastic I didn't pick up on it. Reading and playing video games with my son at the same time. Re-read, still don't see it.

Maybe focus on playing the game with your son instead of half reading half playing?

If you’re talking deliberate aim, you’re attempting murder.

This

Effective range of a handgun is 50m. If you cant hit man sized target at that range you're doing yourself a disservice by not practicing and trying.

This. Im going to try the shadow cr920 though. Im going to try to keep irons on it so I can pocket carry when needed and keep a G48 MOS slide for it. For the occasion in which Im ccing with a holster. We'll see what happens though.

Yes. Anyone arguing against it are just stubborn at this point. No one says I’d rather have an irons only AR so why do it with a pistol?

Watch out everybody…we have a gun fu fighter here.

Have a G22 getting milled for a 507c.  Never something I'll carry but wanted to give it a try.  Atleast it's an rmr footprint and not something proprietary.

I've been known to whack squirrels with my carry gun. This was with a Gen5 G17 with an Acro P1 mounted to it at about 40 yards (witnessed) using 124 +P HST:



This was about 65 yards, witnessed.



This was just under 50:



I don't believe I could have made any of these shots with irons. The sight itself is just too big to give a sufficiently precise reference. I mean, a squirrel's head at 40 yards is not a lot to shoot at. Having a 3.5 MOA dot let me actually see the dot and the squirrel's head. It was a lot easier to track the critter through the woods

I used the same gun/ammo/optic combo to end a couple of wounded deer with shots to the brain stem. Also something that would have been more difficult to do with iron sights. Not impossible on the deer, but harder to achieve in the fleeting moment where their head was still enough to break that shot.

Do I need one on a carry gun? No. At least not yet. I can see my sights well enough but I can already sense my vision getting a little bit worse. I just upped the font on my phone by a notch, for example. I hope it doesn't get worse, but odds are it will. Which sucks..

The dot is a more precise aiming reference than iron sights. A 2-6 MOA dot is a hell of a lot smaller than a 14-16 MOA front sight. On a moving target in varying light (like in the woods) the dot allows you to gather more precise information about the shot more quickly and that helps take advantage in the brief moments between when a game animal is moving.

Is that relevant to self defense? Not to your typical self defense shooting, no. I surely doesn't hurt any in a typical self defense shooting, but it's kind of a wash in terms of advantage. Now when we start talking atypical self defense shooting, that's a different story.

Having used a dot equipped handgun since 2018, I'm not really buying any more primary cary guns that aren't optics ready.

I did buy a P365 recently that isn't optics capable, but that gun is intended for a maximum concealment role where I would otherwise be packing a J frame. It needs to be as small as possible and that precludes an optic. But apart from that niche, I'm buying optics ready guns from now on.

I also got kind of used to that Gen5 G17 giving laser-beam accuracy. (It's the most accurate Glock I've ever seen in person...got really lucky with it) So when I transitioned to the M&P I've installed Apex barrels which make them shoot even more accurately than my squirrel and deer-killing G17 was. Just haven't had the chance to kill any critters with one yet.

When you can aim at a 6" plate at 100 yards and consistently hit it with your carry gun, that's pretty friggin' nice. Unnecessary for typical defensive work, sure...but having that capability costs me nothing at 3 yards so why not?

I see a starburst with a trail going in different directions depending on the lighting and my eyes in any given situation. I just shoot for the bulk of the mass that I see. That has worked well enough to let me hit C zone steel in the head at 50 yards.

Nope

Circle dot really helped my astigmatism as did green dot.

Get and get good with both.

I agree. You should be proficient with both.

I still haven't shot an optic-equipped pistol.  

My department is getting them next month, so I'm looking forward to seeing what I think of it before I invest my own money in one.  

If I like it (meaning I pick it up relatively quickly and naturally and don't feel like I'm chasing the dot all the time) I'll probably buy a new carry gun equipped with a RDS. But I don't think I'm going to send all my existing pistols off to get milled.  I can't afford that many optics anyway.

Folks, arguing irons vs. dots on most shooting tasks is kind of like arguing about the windshield of a car in terms of its performance.

All either do is tell you where the thing is pointed. When we start talking the extreme ends of accuracy and distance, the dot pulls ahead with a clear advantage...but for most handgun work it's moot IF you can actually see sights.

I've been involved in formal firearms training for more than 20 years. The number of people who really understand irons is tiny, mostly because they're almost always taught badly.  

But ultimately the shit on top of the gun doesn't shoot the gun any more than your windshield steers the car. They're just what you look through to make sure you're going where you want.

It will probably take a bit of time to adjust if you are used to irons as you are used to focusing on your sights. You need to change focus to your target and allow the dot to impose on the target with both eyes open. It's an adjustment.

Dude... that little logo in the upper left corner of his profile pic is the emblem of Army Special Forces. I feel like he knows something about fighting.

And both those events occurred with open sights. You also misspelled his name. Might want to rethink your ignorant label.

I agree for the most part. I do find new shooters tend to pick up red dots faster than irons on pistols while very seasoned shooters require more time to adjust from irons to red dots.

Both require training and are useless if you don't train and learn how to shoot them properly.