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It will probably take a bit of time to adjust if you are used to irons as you are used to focusing on your sights. You need to change focus to your target and allow the dot to impose on the target with both eyes open. It's an adjustment.

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We have I think 10 hours and 400 rounds of training before we qualify, which is making me nervous because our range sessions have a habit of being disorganized goatfucks with little opportunity to actually learn.

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We have I think 10 hours and 400 rounds of training before we qualify, which is making me nervous because our range sessions have a habit of being disorganized goatfucks with little opportunity to actually learn.

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I would say the G45 MOS with the FCD plate is the way to go!

The longer grip is really not that much longer vs a G19.

Daily the X Carry which is no issue to CC.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53058602343_8d7b697c72_h.jpg

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The dot going out is preferable because that way it won't tempt you into actually aiming. I mount a dot for redundancy, then tape over both it and my irons to force myself to point shoot.

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I still haven't shot an optic-equipped pistol.  

My department is getting them next month, so I'm looking forward to seeing what I think of it before I invest my own money in one.  

If I like it (meaning I pick it up relatively quickly and naturally and don't feel like I'm chasing the dot all the time) I'll probably buy a new carry gun equipped with a RDS. But I don't think I'm going to send all my existing pistols off to get milled.  I can't afford that many optics anyway.

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I just hit you with a PM that I think will help, there. Holler back if you have any questions.

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I've got a couple of weeks before the class, so I'll put some time into this and see if I can get ahead of the curve.  Thanks!!

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I've got a couple of weeks before the class, so I'll put some time into this and see if I can get ahead of the curve.  Thanks!!

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Taping over the front of the optic will help you learn target focus.

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This guy shoots. Aiming is for faggots.

(srs version: I have a couple pistols with optics, the others aren't optics-capable yet. I'm not as good with the optics as I should be, I'm just a slacker.)

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That's where you're wrong: I don't shoot, because practice will also get you kilt in da streetz. I will my bullets into the target; or I would if I ever shot, which I don't because practice etc, etc.

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Helps to @Nicodemus7

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Plus, irons never fail.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/804B9BA0-9750-4B8F-8EAB-F6817349C676_jpe-3039579.JPG

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Taping over the back of the optic will keep you from aiming, which is good because aiming will get you kilt in the streets.

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I've seen plenty of iron sights fail.

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I've seen plenty of iron sights fail.

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Uhm..

@45-Seventy you need to make a pamphlet for when you are being sarcastic.

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Taping over your eyes is a fucking Pro-Level move.

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The whole.argumwnt.is.pedantic

Shoot your way to.your car where your rifle is stored and get the fuck out of dodge or stand and fight with your long gun.

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What is the preferred setup for irons with RDS, specifically wrt dots (front/rear), tritium, etc?

My first one, I was worried about a confusing sight picture: P320M18 I went with a 2.5moa DPP+their rear & straight steel (no enhancement, just black serrated) Dawson .400h x .125w front and it works ok, find myself fishing around for the dot quite a bit

Just put together a HKVP9OR with an RMR and grudgingly accepted an XS front green tritium with orange surround since it shipped fastest. Happy Mistake! BTW these sights are unexpectedly nuclear-bright, blows away any other tritium sights I've used

On that particular sight with the RMR, orange surround with green trit through the window is not distracting at all, and I think helps index better

Anyway, the front dot as an index has made things a bit faster for sure. Always looking to improve!

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What is the preferred setup for irons with RDS, specifically wrt dots (front/rear), tritium, etc?

My first one, I was worried about a confusing sight picture: P320M18 I went with a 2.5moa DPP+their rear & straight steel (no enhancement, just black serrated) Dawson .400h x .125w front and it works ok, find myself fishing around for the dot quite a bit

Just put together a HKVP9OR with an RMR and grudgingly accepted an XS front green tritium with orange surround since it shipped fastest. Happy Mistake! BTW these sights are unexpectedly nuclear-bright, blows away any other tritium sights I've used

On that particular sight with the RMR, orange surround with green trit through the window is not distracting at all, and I think helps index better

Anyway, the front dot as an index has made things a bit faster for sure. Always looking to improve!

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Taping over your eyes is a fucking Pro-Level move.

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All my current and future carry guns have optic cuts.

Iron sights are range toys.

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All my current and future carry guns have optic cuts.

Iron sights are range toys.

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I haven't even really started putting red dots on rifles yet.

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I would love to think I would be happy putting a dot on my 365xl, but the fact is, I'm a short, fat (working on that) little dude.  Anything other than pocket carry is never really comfortable for me.  And I hate having stuff in my pockets.  For me carrying a gun is a giant uncomfortable PITA.  I'm pretty certain adding the bulk of a dot would make it worse.  I envy the guys that can CC something like a G17.

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I still haven't shot an optic-equipped pistol.  

My department is getting them next month, so I'm looking forward to seeing what I think of it before I invest my own money in one.  

If I like it (meaning I pick it up relatively quickly and naturally and don't feel like I'm chasing the dot all the time) I'll probably buy a new carry gun equipped with a RDS. But I don't think I'm going to send all my existing pistols off to get milled.  I can't afford that many optics anyway.

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I've been known to whack squirrels with my carry gun. This was with a Gen5 G17 with an Acro P1 mounted to it at about 40 yards (witnessed) using 124 +P HST:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/37749/squirrely-1705559.jpg

This was about 65 yards, witnessed.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/37749/squirrel65-1157210.jpg

This was just under 50:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/37749/squirrel50-1157209.jpg

I don't believe I could have made any of these shots with irons. The sight itself is just too big to give a sufficiently precise reference. I mean, a squirrel's head at 40 yards is not a lot to shoot at. Having a 3.5 MOA dot let me actually see the dot and the squirrel's head. It was a lot easier to track the critter through the woods

I used the same gun/ammo/optic combo to end a couple of wounded deer with shots to the brain stem. Also something that would have been more difficult to do with iron sights. Not impossible on the deer, but harder to achieve in the fleeting moment where their head was still enough to break that shot.

Do I need one on a carry gun? No. At least not yet. I can see my sights well enough but I can already sense my vision getting a little bit worse. I just upped the font on my phone by a notch, for example. I hope it doesn't get worse, but odds are it will. Which sucks..

The dot is a more precise aiming reference than iron sights. A 2-6 MOA dot is a hell of a lot smaller than a 14-16 MOA front sight. On a moving target in varying light (like in the woods) the dot allows you to gather more precise information about the shot more quickly and that helps take advantage in the brief moments between when a game animal is moving.

Is that relevant to self defense? Not to your typical self defense shooting, no. I surely doesn't hurt any in a typical self defense shooting, but it's kind of a wash in terms of advantage. Now when we start talking atypical self defense shooting, that's a different story.

Having used a dot equipped handgun since 2018, I'm not really buying any more primary cary guns that aren't optics ready.

I did buy a P365 recently that isn't optics capable, but that gun is intended for a maximum concealment role where I would otherwise be packing a J frame. It needs to be as small as possible and that precludes an optic. But apart from that niche, I'm buying optics ready guns from now on.

I also got kind of used to that Gen5 G17 giving laser-beam accuracy. (It's the most accurate Glock I've ever seen in person...got really lucky with it) So when I transitioned to the M&P I've installed Apex barrels which make them shoot even more accurately than my squirrel and deer-killing G17 was. Just haven't had the chance to kill any critters with one yet.

When you can aim at a 6" plate at 100 yards and consistently hit it with your carry gun, that's pretty friggin' nice. Unnecessary for typical defensive work, sure...but having that capability costs me nothing at 3 yards so why not?

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I’m not ditching my current G19s but my next purchase is going to be a G45 MOS set up like Lungbuster has his.