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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:17:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your nuts. I watch 8” installed all the time. Your water goes thriough pvc at some point. And water municipalities dont put in their water mains, the lowest bidder does. Used to be a water main contractor ,vast majority of pipe was C 900 PVC. Most sprinkler systems use solvent weld PVC. Service lines were HDPE . You identified the source of the leaks in your earlier post, hell ,the whole thing could be DWV . |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:19:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Long story short: We bought a house last June, inspected it and everything looked good. Had a water line leak between the meter and the house (our side) cost about $1,400 to have it dug up, bad connection replaced, and fixed Now, first hard freeze and the water line has broken at multiple connections in our front yard. The plumber who looked at it told me it looked like our water service was installed by an idiot 1-1/2 schedule 40 pvc with standard glued joints...and ALL the joints are coming apart because the person who did it THEMSELF didn't know what they were doing We bought the house from an estate, and had standard inspections done and while there were a few repairs to be made we knew what we were getting into Finding out our water service will have to be replaced all the way from the main is about 75-yards to the house We confronted the seller today with this information AND THE SELLER NOW ADMITS they knew "dad got an estimate and didn't want to pay to have the water line replaced so he did it himself"...The seller never mentioned this before the sale Do we have any recourse with the sellers? Seems like this should be a disclosure item  It's not like a home inspector is going to dig up the underground water line and see what condition it's in @pale_pony what do you think is your path to recourse? How much will that path cost? Let me give you a hint, it is t through an attorney. They cheapest is 150 an hour. Unless you want to be out of pocket even more. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:23:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP - if you do hire a lawyer to pursue this, please come back when its all over and honestly tell us how it comes out, particularly in terms of how much you had to pay the lawyer to pursue a $1400 claim First thought. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:24:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Used to be a water main contractor ,vast majority of pipe was C 900 pvc . Most sprinkler systems use solvent weld PVC. Service lines were HDPE . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your nuts. I watch 8” installed all the time. Your water goes thriough pvc at some point. And water municipalities dont put in their water mains, the lowest bidder does. Used to be a water main contractor ,vast majority of pipe was C 900 pvc . Most sprinkler systems use solvent weld PVC. Service lines were HDPE . “Most” and “vast”? What was the rest wood or lead? Lol(I’m old). I’ve never witnessed solvent welded mains, only gasket, and now sprinkler companies are switching to cpvc(orange/peach). In heavy clay i would hope mains are ductile because of the heaving but they are still mostly pvc in smaller municipalities. Larger private water companies still spec mostly ductile, but its a mix. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:26:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sucks he did a poor job. I would trench it up and repair it myself. Thats what the previous owner did.  I'd be on their asses, especially if they knew. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:30:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never seen anything remotely like that on disclosure forms. Homeowners repair stuff all the time. Plus, every place I've lived permits were only required for specific kinds of work. Basic repairs wouldn't need a permit anyway. My understanding of disclosure is that the seller must fess up to known problems. Houses are a continual string of repairs starting from the day construction is completed. As long as issues have been repaired, and the seller has no reason to believe it will be a reoccurring issue, there is zero reason to "disclose" one and done past issues. WTH is there to disclose??? "CAUTION- buyer be advised- back in 2002, we replaced the bathroom faucet." That's just silly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Every disclosure form I've ever seen has a catch all asking about any work done that a permit wasn't pulled for. I've never seen anything remotely like that on disclosure forms. Homeowners repair stuff all the time. Plus, every place I've lived permits were only required for specific kinds of work. Basic repairs wouldn't need a permit anyway. My understanding of disclosure is that the seller must fess up to known problems. Houses are a continual string of repairs starting from the day construction is completed. As long as issues have been repaired, and the seller has no reason to believe it will be a reoccurring issue, there is zero reason to "disclose" one and done past issues. WTH is there to disclose??? "CAUTION- buyer be advised- back in 2002, we replaced the bathroom faucet." That's just silly. This is the way I understand it as well. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:32:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? This. If it's properly glued it's basically welded together and can't come apart. If done improperly it should be immediately apparent. There isn't really a "half-assed" joint. I think, not a plumber. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:33:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Most” and “vast”? What was the rest wood or lead? I’ve never witnessed solvent welded mains, only gasket, and now sprinkler companies are switching to cpvc(orange/peach). In heavy clay i would hope mains are ductile because of the heaving but they are still mostly pvc in smaller municipalities. Larger private water companies still spec mostly ductile, but its a mix. Some cities specked out DIP, most were gasket joint C 900 PVC . |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:34:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Bro.. i cant believe you are even asking. just fix it. its a house not a car with an extended warranty. All houses break. All houses have some sketchy repairs.
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:35:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. If it's properly glued it's basically welded together and can't come apart. If done improperly it should be immediately apparent. There isn't really a "half-assed" joint. I think, not a plumber. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? This. If it's properly glued it's basically welded together and can't come apart. If done improperly it should be immediately apparent. There isn't really a "half-assed" joint. I think, not a plumber. Again, there are dwv fittings and pressure fittings. Pressure fittings are double the depth of dwv. I’m assuming OP’s waterline was installed with dwv fittings by his plumbers response. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:35:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Note to self : when I sell my place make sure I disclose I installed the 400' of water line and 700' of power line . Should probably also disclose I installed the septic tank , diverter box and 2 90' runs for the drain field .
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:37:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? the joints that leak all look like the pipe pulled free of the pvc weld/glue. the connections are purple, but not good and water is spewing out |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:37:28 PM EDT
[#13]
We hired a "plumber" to do work on our well pump.
I have had to replace ALL his shit work. Plumber relative was in town for Thanksgiving and asked who did the recent job... "Looks like he charged you plenty , you probably could have done it cheaper yourself". He looked surprised when I told him I did it. Not every "professional" is worth their price , but if the guy fucked up and didnt do it to code, you may have legal grounds to work with. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:39:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Standard OK real-estate disclosure form: https://eforms.com/images/2018/08/Oklahoma-Residential-Property-Condition-Disclosure-Statement.pdf So, first things first. You need to find out the following: Is a permit required for a homeowner to repair/replace a buried water line if he does the work himself? See #11. What was the seller's response to #13? thanks! |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:39:32 PM EDT
[#15]
I ALWAYS dig up everything utilities related before I buy a home.
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:42:38 PM EDT
[#16]
It's your house just fix it and get on with life. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:42:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP you paid $1400 for one connection to be repaired? $1400 should of covered dam near the whole line. People fix things all the time, have you not done your own repairs? Would list every repair you've done? |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:44:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Fix it and go on
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:45:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I ran 300 feet of water line at my old house. Was I supposed to disclose this ? Yes. The new owners want to know how you lay pipe. Disclose everything 
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:47:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the joints that leak all look like the pipe pulled free of the pvc weld/glue. the connections are purple, but not good and water is spewing out Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? the joints that leak all look like the pipe pulled free of the pvc weld/glue. the connections are purple, but not good and water is spewing out Have you thought maybe the same Ice and temperatures that fucked up the other section also fucked this part up. ? Ask your husband to fix it and move on it’s not that hard. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:50:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sucks he did a poor job. I would trench it up and repair it myself. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:53:01 PM EDT
[#22]
If I had to disclose everything I DIYed I’d be writing for a week and still miss a lot.
Plus, that doesn’t mean I’m going to warranty any of it. Some of the shittiest work I’ve seen has been by “professionals” Just bad luck on this one. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:53:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Typically from the meter to the house is your waterline anyway you have a right to repair it. We inspect them for free out of courtesy and to protect the future homeowners if the homeowner is doing the work.
I would probably just replace it myself depending on how deep your frostline is. The water co. should have an engineering section on their website with a detail of a typical water service. That detail will show you what types of pipes they approve and, what types of fittings they require to the meter, minimum depth and acceptable bedding material. Typ, if you do decide to do it yourself where the pipe goes through the foundation put it through a larger pipe and fill it with foam. Ours rubbed on the foundation enough that after 30 years it ruptured on Christmas Eve. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:55:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pffft NJ and town government only means you were getting kickbacks from the PVC mafia. Lead pipes for water all the way. lol we replaced the entire system in parallel to the old lead one...it was cheaper to do that than excavate and deal with the lead. Also, i just went and checked and my house in SC has pvc or otherwise plastic line from the street |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:56:28 PM EDT
[#25]
A few things:
-I am no longer a realtor. But I used to be and may have learned a few things -If I was still a realtor, I couldn't help you because you're in OK and I'm in TN and you aren't my client and I am not licensed there anyway and don't know OK law at all. But if you were *my* client, and this was TN, I would have directed you to the title company, because no matter what I think I know about RE law, REALTORS ARE NOT ATTORNEYS and they suck at giving legal advice. It's a great example of when people should stay in their own lane. Trying to help someone with legal issues has no upside for a realtor and a ton of downsides. But after I told you that, I'd point out that estate/inheritance sales generally fall under a disclosure exemption in TN, and I suspect they do in most other states. But you need to talk to an OK attorney, not the experts here in GD. I strongly suspect you'll be told that there's no legal duty for a home repair to be disclosed at all, and certainly not when the home is being sold to settle the estate and the only people who lived in it recently are deceased. One of the first homes the wife and I sold had a massive water line break within 48 hours of closing. We felt terrible but there was literally nothing we, nor the sellers, did wrong. It's a house. Stuff breaks. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:57:10 PM EDT
[#26]
OP the only recourse that seems likely is IF permits and inspections were required and they were not done.
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:59:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm quite certain it was the title insurance company since the problem began when I had a survey done and figured out my neighbors septic drain field and well were actually on my land, but behind his fence. He fenced in .65 acres of property that didn't belong to him and then sold the property without disclosing it 20 years ago. There was an undisclosed buried power line with no paperwork and the illegally modified septic system also He also was able to get a loan from a bank using the property as collateral ,12 years after he sold it. The parts in bold are why the title company got involved because all that affects the title. A crappily repaired buried water line in the utility easement that is 100% on the OP's property is not a title problem. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sucks he did a poor job. I would trench it up and repair it myself. But don't disclose it to the next guy 
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:18:34 PM EDT
[#29]
You trusted the inspector, now you believe some guy saying the job wasn't done right.
Bottom line, you had an inspection and accepted the condition of the home. What material is the water line? |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:20:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You trusted the inspector, now you believe some guy saying the job wasn't done right. Bottom line, you had an inspection and accepted the condition of the home. What material is the water line? Inspectors aren't digging up a supply line. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:26:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the joints that leak all look like the pipe pulled free of the pvc weld/glue. the connections are purple, but not good and water is spewing out Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? the joints that leak all look like the pipe pulled free of the pvc weld/glue. the connections are purple, but not good and water is spewing out Thanks... still bizarre, purple means primer, maybe they didn't seat the pipe deep enough in the bell.... Sorry OP |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:27:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Unless they lied, you are likely SOL.
Also, it's an estate with no actual knowledge of the situation. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:30:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the joints that leak all look like the pipe pulled free of the pvc weld/glue. the connections are purple, but not good and water is spewing out Wait ... , if you are able to see these connections in order to say they, "Pulled free of the pvc weld/glue;" then you have them dug up already, and can go ahead and fix them. No? If you don't have them dug up, and therefore can't see them, then how can you say they pulled away from the glue? |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:32:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who in their right mind would use PVC for anything other than drain waste or vent pipe? Most houses in Florida are PVC, newer ones might be PE or Pex. Copper doesnt last that long here. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:33:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ..... 1-1/2 schedule 40 pvc with standard glued joints...and ALL the joints are coming apart because the person who did it THEMSELF didn't know what they were doing .... Can you expand on this..... I'm curious how you fuck up pvc? Quite easy to FU PVC especially if he is the I'll fix it myself typical homeowner who wants to spend $25 to do the job. He probably cut with a hacksaw and didn't take the burrs off. Next he didn't chamfer the ends and used cleaner instead of primer "because it is the same thing" if he used anything at all. He probably just jammed the joints together with not enough glue and had dry spots. See it everyday and I do PVC work up 16". |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:35:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Not an expert opinion:
I'd just have it fixed and move on. I don't see pics of what was done incorrectly, but not sure if it would matter. The seller's going to argue: 1. The repair lasted the previous owner a lifetime 2. OP had a professional inspection. OP paid $1400 to have the line at least partially dug up in June to repair a leak. Seller will say that if anything was defective OP should have seen it then. 3. Seller is going to argue the recent weather caused water line damage for a lot of people. Unless OP paid for a warranty, I'd just call it part of the cost of owning a house (and being able to afford a property that requires a 75 yard water line run). This is probably one of the few cases where those water line service contracts they sell for $5/month would have come in handy. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:39:30 PM EDT
[#37]
I decided to look up a video on Youtube of someone installing a water line from the street to their house. This one was one of the first ones that showed up...using sprinkler grade PVC and lots of purple PVC primer. Sound familiar to OP?
 Installing the Main Service water line into my Neighbor's House (Part 1)  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:48:35 PM EDT
[#38]
It’s going to come down to state law and whatever your contract and other paperwork said.
In VA sellers aren’t required to disclose anything. I found plenty of shitty DIY work in my house that the inspector missed. Oh well I just handled it as it’s my problem now. As usual, kinda sucks being a home owner lol |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 10:52:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Pardon the cliche, but running a pvc water line isn’t rocket science. There are things to get intimidated by DIY, but this isn’t one of them.
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:01:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I decided to look up a video on Youtube of someone installing a water line from the street to their house. This one was one of the first ones that showed up...using sprinkler grade PVC and lots of purple PVC primer. Sound familiar to OP?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1nWK_mKQPIhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26697/Screenshot_2022-12-27_183905_jpg-2651294.JPG Real men do it bare handed with cut up hands. Let’s you know you’re still alive. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:02:51 PM EDT
[#41]
In my state you do not need a permit or inspection. It’s extremely common for the homeowner here to hook up the water line. It’s the homeowners responsibility to run water from the street hook up to their house. Instead of paying a plumber we just do it because it’s easy and a lot cheaper.
I’ve bought several houses and various properties and I’ve never seen this on the disclosure form. Man up and just do it yourself. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:06:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your nuts. I watch 8” installed all the time. Your water goes thriough pvc at some point. And water municipalities dont put in their water mains, the lowest bidder does. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who in their right mind would use PVC for anything other than drain waste or vent pipe? Only all water municipalities. Yea, if your on city water it travels through pvc. Quite a few don't use PVC and have never. .... actually it's poorly run idiots that don't know better still using PVC....this isn't 1985 anymore. Your nuts. I watch 8” installed all the time. Your water goes thriough pvc at some point. And water municipalities dont put in their water mains, the lowest bidder does. Ok dude.....I ran O&M for 250K pop water utility. We use ductile iron or HDPE in hot soils.....there are many better built distribution systems than the crap you have.....I hear banjos |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:07:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Yes you have recourse, the seller is required to disclose.
They admitted they knew and failed to disclose. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:10:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Easy job IF it's a straight run. 1" pex or poly pipe will fit and the pvc will protect it from rocks. No trenching required.
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:13:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pardon the cliche, but running a pvc water line isn’t rocket science. There are things to get intimidated by DIY, but this isn’t one of them. It’s probably like replacing garage door torsion springs. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:16:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you have recourse, the seller is required to disclose. They admitted they knew and failed to disclose. Man, there is NO way that I am going to remember all of the shit I have done to my house after living here for nearly 30 years. Hell, even a lot of the codes have changed in that time. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:19:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s probably like replacing garage door torsion springs. Lol nope. I’ve seen a garage door come apart violently, I’ll gladly pay the $100 to have somebody else do that. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:21:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Sorry, but you own the place now. It's yours to repair. Sucks!
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:24:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Find a guy who does hydraulic splitting. I had something similar. There was a blue plastic pipe that was supposed to last forever. It didn't. I found out about the class action suit after it was closed. One morning I woke up and saw water flowing down the driveway. A friend knows a lot of plumbers, and I got a special friends and family estimate of 18k from them. I was not about to pay that. I found a guy who uses a portable gas powered hydraulic pump to drive a hydraulic ram which pulls a cable with a splitter "bomb." He had to dig a few pits into which to lower the cage the ram pulls against. He worked a braided cable from the pit near the meter to the inside of the house at the service entrance. He bolted the splitter on the cable, and used the ram to pull the splitter through the existing pipe. The new pipe is bolted to the back of the splitter. As the cable is pulled through the old pipe, it splits it and pulls the new well pipe through the space left behind by the old pipe. There was some hand digging for the pits, and connection to the meter. He was able to go under the driveway by digging just one pit to the side. I did need a saw cut in another place on the driveway, and another saw cut close to the meter. I think the whole job for about 5k. I thought it was worth every penny. interesting |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 11:31:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you have recourse, the seller is required to disclose. They admitted they knew and failed to disclose. After going through a 3 year legal ordeal for a similar situation, that you can read about in the legal section, pay the $1400, do it yourself and move on with your life. |
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