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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:17:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PVC pipe is supposed to be bedded... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It breaks, all the time. I hate it. Gasketed mainline waterline pipe is fine since it can compensate for deflection and movement and the pipe is thicker. I've replaced thousands of feet of glued PVC on places I've lived all with PEX, copper or Poly pipe. You have a joint every 10 to 20 feet that can break if the ground moves, a excavator walks nearby or it's near a rock since pipe itself is brittle. The only place I'd ever put glued PVC pipe is a utility type building that can handle some water damage. PVC pipe is supposed to be bedded... That depends entirely on the host material where the pipe is located. You do want to compact the soil around the pipe before bury it completely. We usually do 2’ lifts after initial compaction. Compaction is the key. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:32:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Once again.... if you can SEE (as you've said) to determine that a joint is leaking, that means you can patch/repair it without much work. Sounds like you are just wanting someone else to pay for and install a new entire line. Personally, I would have been done already with the fix. Too much hand-wringing and whining here.
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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:33:46 AM EDT
[#3]
OP needs to get out his check book.
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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:42:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP you paid $1400 for one connection to be repaired? $1400 should of covered dam near the whole line. People fix things all the time, have you not done your own repairs? Would list every repair you've done? Yes, you do have to list repairs on a disclosure form. Has the roof ever leaked? Yes, was repaired by home owner. At this point the buyer is either satisfied or asks for a report from a professional roofing contractor. If they answer no, they are culpable. The biggest thing is, if the person filling out the disclosure never lived there and has no knowledge, not much you can do. This person withheld a material fact if indeed there was a question on the form that pertained to the the water line. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:42:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once again.... if you can SEE (as you've said) to determine that a joint is leaking, that means you can patch/repair it without much work. Sounds like you are just wanting someone else to pay for and install a new entire line. Personally, I would have been done already with the fix. Too much hand-wringing and whining here. So you're gonna step up and volunteer to dig that next 4-foot deep hole when the next leak springs up...thanks! |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:50:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Digging the ditch is the easy part op. Filling it back in correctly is the hard part.
Friend of mine had to have about 50yds replaced up to his house. Ran from an alley, past his shop, through the back yard. He decided to do it with a ditch witch, and a plumber buddy. Had his teenage kids fill everything back in. Looked ok until the first big rain. He now has a noticeable divot a few inches deep from end to end. Including through his lawn. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 3:03:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, you do have to list repairs on a disclosure form. Just looked up Oklahoma Residential Property Condition Disclosure Statement. Only have to disclose defects, repairs related to defects specifically, or foundation/structure. “24. Are you aware of defects pertaining to sewer, septic, lateral lines or aerobic system?” https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/orec/documents/contracts-and-forms-page/documents-from-grant-november-2020/RPCD%20Appendix%20A%20(11-2020).pdf |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 3:56:33 PM EDT
[#8]
It was working when you purchased it. What exactly were they supposed to disclose, the fact that there might possibly be a problem in the future? That can be said about everything. Also, depending on state law, and being an estate, they might not be legally required to disclose anything. You'd need to look at how the states disclosure laws are written.
Now, if they new about a defect and purposefully hid it, that might be a different story. But, from your description, that doesn't seem to be what happened. Unfortunately, you are probably going to have to take responsibility. ETA.... And did I read correctly that your water line is pvc? Is that normal? I thought water lines were typically pex or copper, or some other type of metal depending on the age. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:01:26 PM EDT
[#9]
If you bought a home warranty, great, cash it in and have them fix it. Otherwise ggggggg-good luck!
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:09:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call your title Co. There is a reason its called Title Insurance. lol Title insurance has fuck all to do with plumbing or anything like this Op get some shovels and fix it, you bought it that way. Or get some other estimates but it would cost five times more to pursue it than the new line would cost. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:11:16 PM EDT
[#11]
It really depends on how much money it’s going to cost you to determine if it’s worth pursuing. anything under $15k probably isn’t
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:15:27 PM EDT
[#12]
#1: How in the hell do you screw up pvc glue fittings? A dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together.
#2: Why aren’t you fixing this, a dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together? |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:32:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 75 yards is a looong way to snake pex through without a pull string. I’ve never snaked that far but I’m thinking it wont do it by just pushing. Could use a 240' fishtape or maybe a vacuum with a piece of home depot/Walmart bag for a mouse/balloon and a string. Might save him from trenching, uncoil the pex and let it relax use some lube and pull it in. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:41:46 PM EDT
[#14]
How many freakin joints are there going to be in a water service line? Shouldn't there just be one at the meter and another at the house? Even if it's PVC, that stuff bends enough to maneuver around to get to the house connection without joints in most cases. How come it has so many joints?
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:47:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #1: How in the hell do you screw up pvc glue fittings? A dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together. #2: Why aren't you fixing this, a dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together? 1. Apply a thin layer of primer to both the fitting and the pipe. 2. Spread the cement over the primer. 3. Connect the parts and twist to spread the cement. 4. Hold the parts together until dry, usually about 15 seconds. Failure to do any of the above can compromise a PVC glue joint. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:50:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit. Just fix it.... |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:51:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many freakin joints are there going to be in a water service line? Shouldn't there just be one at the meter and another at the house? Even if it's PVC, that stuff bends enough to maneuver around to get to the house connection without joints in most cases. How come it has so many joints? Because it's sold in 20' sticks ?, 10 ' if they mistakenly used DWV. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:51:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're gonna step up and volunteer to dig that next 4-foot deep hole when the next leak springs up...thanks! At least you know it's buried beneath the frost line. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:55:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Fuck glue joint pvc for in ground residential water lines. Literally no water utilities use pvc for service lines. Blackroll or copper is the way to go from the meter to the house. If you really want to do it right run the blackroll in conduit.
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Posted: 12/28/2022 5:04:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Direct burial copper? The fuck? I started working in the 70's, K copper was the norm , Still doing some of it up until the mid 90's . Engineers would spec it if the soil was good . Two inch K copper was a bitch . Sorry about the thread slide. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 11:09:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People are really ignorant on pvc, huh. Pvc has almost 3x the pressure rating over pex. And yes pex does crack. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/445788/15D3512A-C22E-4031-B9B1-A95ACC9B34DC-2651179.jpg PVC has less than double the pressure rating of PEX if you want to be accurate. 1" PVC is rated for 270psi vs 160psi for PEX A. UV rays are the enemy of PEX. I'd like to know what caused the failure of that PEX. Is it even PEX A? PEX B cannot be expanded. I have done over 10,000 PEX connections over the past 10 years and have never had one split. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 8:00:31 AM EDT
[#22]
That’s riifo pex a. I use a mix of uponor and riifo. Riifo came into play because my supply house has struggled getting uponor the last few years But now we seem to get it consistently.
So that expansion was made in 40f. I’ve had both uponor and riifo do it. Of coarse it’s the colder temps, but we have to keep going and don’t always have heat in rough in’s. I’ve only had this happen a couple of times, in many thousands of connections. 100’s of houses worth. Pex b. Yes you can expand it. Zurn is now expandable. No pex b doesn’t have the memory pex a does and neither does pert(legend pipe) but they rely on the pex a rings for the compression. Here’s Charlotte pipe pvc pressure ratings. 1” is 450psi. 1/2” is 600psi. 
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Posted: 12/29/2022 9:08:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Unless the previous owner did something without a permit then maybe, but even that is a stretch. Just take the LOSS and fix it yourself or get someone to. If you're looking to get some kind of compensation from the previous owner it'll probably cost you more time and money than it's worth.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 9:12:45 AM EDT
[#24]
Just dig it up and put PEX in.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:03:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #1: How in the hell do you screw up pvc glue fittings? A dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together. #2: Why aren’t you fixing this, a dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together? The first house I bought was a brand new spec house. A few months into it one day I heard water gushing somewhere. Initially thought it was a pounding rainstorm. Figured out it was under the house. One of the pipes had blown loose and was FLOODING the crawl space with water. Called the builder who lived in the same general area. He was PISSED. Apparently the plumbing contractor hadn’t put glue on some of the pipes under the house. He sent one of his workers that had common sense over the next day and he checked every joint in the house (that he could). He said pretty much the same thing as you. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:06:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just dig it up and put PEX in. BUT MUH 4 FOOT DEEP HOLE |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:15:13 PM EDT
[#27]
you can win buy fixing it yourself and doing a shit job, then selling
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:41:38 PM EDT
[#28]
I know each state is different, but I have done a couple here in Florida over the years. Basically, the meter back to the source is the responsibility of the provider. From the meter to your house is yours. Dig it up and replace it. Easy to do.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:48:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: We confronted the seller today with this information AND THE SELLER NOW ADMITS they knew "dad got an estimate and didn't want to pay to have the water line replaced so he did it himself"...The seller never mentioned this before the sale Do we have any recourse with the sellers? Seems like this should be a disclosure item  It's not like a home inspector is going to dig up the underground water line and see what condition it's in Failure to disclose, they own the repair cost. They can be sued for it. That is one thing you never want to do in RE is fail to disclose something you have knowledge of. And that's coming from a Realtor with experience. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:49:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit. Just fix it.... In the amount of time it took to make his post I would of had the trencher rented and this from lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/ADS-1-in-x-300-ft-160-PSI-Plastic-Coil-Pipe/3514730 Fixed in about 3 hours or less, just depends on how much beer we drank fixing it. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:59:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the amount of time it took to make his post I would of had the trencher rented and this from lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/ADS-1-in-x-300-ft-160-PSI-Plastic-Coil-Pipe/3514730 Fixed in about 3 hours or less, just depends on how much beer we drank fixing it. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 7:14:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 75 yards of trenching and PVC? No way. Around here it wound be several thousand to get a water main replaced. That’s why I did my own last summer. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 7:15:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who in their right mind would use PVC for anything other than drain waste or vent pipe? I wonder if he means Pex or however you spell it. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 7:19:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the disclosure form say? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 7:22:15 PM EDT
[#35]
In MN, there are sold as is clauses added to houses sold by an estate. The idea is to remove any liability from an estate that no longer contains any assets after everything has been distributed.
Talk to an attorney and get off of arfcom about this. |
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Posted: 12/30/2022 1:19:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Failure to disclose, they own the repair cost. They can be sued for it. That is one thing you never want to do in RE is fail to disclose something you have knowledge of. And that's coming from a Realtor with experience. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We confronted the seller today with this information AND THE SELLER NOW ADMITS they knew "dad got an estimate and didn't want to pay to have the water line replaced so he did it himself"...The seller never mentioned this before the sale Do we have any recourse with the sellers? Seems like this should be a disclosure item It's not like a home inspector is going to dig up the underground water line and see what condition it's in Failure to disclose, they own the repair cost. They can be sued for it. That is one thing you never want to do in RE is fail to disclose something you have knowledge of. And that's coming from a Realtor with experience. I'm not a realtor, but are you confusing failure to disclose an UNREPAIRED item or a repaired item. A perfect example would be that the kitchen faucet broke, but the homeowner fixed it and it is operating normally now. How can there be a requirement to disclose it if it is operating normally? I have never heard of a homeowner having to disclose that they replaced or repaired a leaky toilet or pipe. I have replaced leaking sprinkler lines and sprinkler heads on my own and feel quite certain there is no REQUIREMENT that I disclose it if I were to sell the home. Now if they knew an item of was leaking or broken and did NOT fix it, that is a whole other issue. In this case, the line was replaced by the homeowner. Had he known it was leaking and did NOT repair/replace it, they might be on the hook. |
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Posted: 12/31/2022 3:45:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly! Op is not cut out to be a homeowner... Do you have kids op? Wait till you see how much they cost! You beg for a leaky fucking pipe... hahah Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In the amount of time it took to make his post I would of had the trencher rented and this from lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/ADS-1-in-x-300-ft-160-PSI-Plastic-Coil-Pipe/3514730 Fixed in about 3 hours or less, just depends on how much beer we drank fixing it. Buying an older home and something just randomly stops working or is worn out or rotted from 30 years of moisture condensation? Ya that's a given with an older home. BTDT with my last couple of homes. Half ass remodels and DIY electrical work that didnt meet code or common sense. But finding out the previous owner did some half ass repair and fucked it up and then didn't say anything about doing a half ass job that failed and now requires the current owner to pay to fix it isn't in the "stuff I'm willing to accept without a fight" category for some of us. Might not win, but sure as fuck aren't going to just accept that I got fucked without trying to get the seller to make it right first. If the OP had known the previous owner was both a retard and did his own home repairs, he might have offered less money when he bought the house to offset any future repairs . |
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Posted: 12/31/2022 3:59:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Op suck it up and fix it
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Posted: 12/31/2022 4:05:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Long story short: We bought a house last June, inspected it and everything looked good. Had a water line leak between the meter and the house (our side) cost about $1,400 to have it dug up, bad connection replaced, and fixed Now, first hard freeze and the water line has broken at multiple connections in our front yard. The plumber who looked at it told me it looked like our water service was installed by an idiot 1-1/2 schedule 40 pvc with standard glued joints...and ALL the joints are coming apart because the person who did it THEMSELF didn't know what they were doing We bought the house from an estate, and had standard inspections done and while there were a few repairs to be made we knew what we were getting into Finding out our water service will have to be replaced all the way from the main is about 75-yards to the house We confronted the seller today with this information AND THE SELLER NOW ADMITS they knew "dad got an estimate and didn't want to pay to have the water line replaced so he did it himself"...The seller never mentioned this before the sale Do we have any recourse with the sellers? Seems like this should be a disclosure item It's not like a home inspector is going to dig up the underground water line and see what condition it's in There's a decent chance that such a repair needed a permit and inspection, they didn't pull one, and that it SHOULD have been disclosed in the documents, and they didn't, and you could potentially retain an attorney and sue for damages. That being said... there's a lot of "ifs" in there, and you stand the chance of spending more on the attorney in discovery and document reading to tell you "no, no you can't" than you'll spend on the repairs. Or if the court doesn't say that the other side has to pay your attorney, you could still pay more for the attorney than you'd win. |
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Posted: 12/31/2022 4:14:29 AM EDT
[#40]
I believe that it will be on you.
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Posted: 12/31/2022 4:29:12 AM EDT
[#41]
I would ask the person who sold it to contribute to the costs of fixing a latent defect. Be reasonable and ask for
a portion slightly higher than you want. Maybe you get a fraction out of the estate they benefitted from. If they say no, consider legal options in your state, but you may just have to fix the shit on your own dime. Big deal, we live in the land of fuck you, pay me |
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Posted: 12/31/2022 4:50:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Was it working when you bought the house? How long did it work for until it broke?
How long does the previous owner need to warranty your house? |
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Posted: 12/31/2022 11:44:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just looked up Oklahoma Residential Property Condition Disclosure Statement. Only have to disclose defects, repairs related to defects specifically, or foundation/structure. “24. Are you aware of defects pertaining to sewer, septic, lateral lines or aerobic system?” That pertains to repairs to the sewer lines. |
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Posted: 12/31/2022 11:50:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many freakin joints are there going to be in a water service line? Shouldn't there just be one at the meter and another at the house? Even if it's PVC, that stuff bends enough to maneuver around to get to the house connection without joints in most cases. How come it has so many joints? How many 12' pieces of PVC in the OP's line? How do you connect them without joints? |
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Posted: 1/2/2023 8:17:03 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Failure to disclose, they own the repair cost. They can be sued for it. That is one thing you never want to do in RE is fail to disclose something you have knowledge of. And that's coming from a Realtor with experience. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We confronted the seller today with this information AND THE SELLER NOW ADMITS they knew "dad got an estimate and didn't want to pay to have the water line replaced so he did it himself"...The seller never mentioned this before the sale Do we have any recourse with the sellers? Seems like this should be a disclosure item It's not like a home inspector is going to dig up the underground water line and see what condition it's in Failure to disclose, they own the repair cost. They can be sued for it. That is one thing you never want to do in RE is fail to disclose something you have knowledge of. And that's coming from a Realtor with experience. I suppose in some states you can't DIY a water line but in free and mostly free states there isn't any reason a home owner cannot do their own home repair work. I also see no obligation to disclose I as a homeowner did a repair, provided I was permitted to do so by state law and followed all applicable building codes for my jurisdiction. |
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Posted: 1/2/2023 9:19:07 AM EDT
[#46]
If you were in SC, you would have recourse. Not a OK attorney, but it’s possible.
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Posted: 1/2/2023 9:19:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #1: How in the hell do you screw up pvc glue fittings? A dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together. #2: Why aren’t you fixing this, a dead monkey can glue pvc pipe together? This. By the time the OP typed it, I could have it fixed. |
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