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Posted: 7/4/2021 11:59:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: This has been coming for about 10 years, it started the first time I read through the bible in whole myself. I was raised in the church since year 0 and believed (or so I thought) in the bible in it's entirely. I was taught that every word of the Bible is truth, that there is not even one error, but in being taught growing up, we were all taught single verses or chapters and how those words might apply to our life today. The bible as a whole is a tough thing to teach... In reading though the bible myself for the first time I saw a God that was supposed to unchanging, change in the extreme over the course of the Bible. He talks about both not tempting people and then tempts people. About not killing innocent people and then punishing his people for not killing innocent people. He makes a promise, then changes it. He sets up rules that are to stand forever with no room for that ever changing, then Jesus changes all that. There are over a hundred contradictions in the bible you never hear about in church because you have to admit there's a lot wrong with it. Even the first 2 chapters (Genesis 1 and 2) tell of completely different orders of creation. A huge contradiction on the first page. The arguments for why this is are extremely thin. One of the biggest things that stood out to me is the promise of heaven with Jesus' message. In the old testament there is Sheol, which is pretty much a place of darkness. A Medium even brings Samuel back from the dead and he talks about this. Then in Daniel, he writes about Eternal Life to get Jews to Martyr themselves after he told them not to fight and realized they needed some encouragement to fight. This concept was huge issue for me. It was about 100 years before Jesus that the idea of Heaven and Hell became really popular with Jews, this is the hot topic and the middle east is struggling with the idea of Heaven and looking for answers. Looking back on my life in the church, I am shocked at how often I was guilted into not questioning the bible. If you quotation things, you need more faith (not answers). The bible is very clear that all good things come from God and bad things do not (except for when they do). How is it that a God that is all powerful creates the Earth, then over the course of the Bible is not able to defeat some enemies, Satan is given more or less free reign of the Earth, allows so much evil in the world. He talks so freely with Adam and Eve, then more crypticly as time goes on (only in secret most of the time, appearing as things like bushes and visions) then goes silent for 2000 years!!!??? I spent decades talking to God and believing 100% in the teachings of Jesus, but never once heard him. I cried at night as a kid terrified I wouldn't do something right and end up in Hell. I grew up in a "good" church, but looking back it was guilt and fear that made me believe. I don't want my kids to have that guilt. It hard but my wife (who separately came to the exact same conclusions) and I are completely out. I've had these same doubts. I have left organized religion. I rely on the word of Jesus, from the Bible, and other sources. I think Jesus would be ashamed of modern Christianity. I try to obey the rules Jesus laid out. I pay little attention to "Man's" interpretation of what Jesus meant when he said something. Fucker, I can read, and that's not what it says. It says what it says. I can like it or dislike it, I can believe or not, it's my sould at risk, not yours. We've had brushes with more than one Christian cult. Never again. If anyone tells you how to be an good Christian, be skeptical. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:00:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Simply put, Man was given free will. Would you want a dog that came to you out of fear of being kicked or came to you out of love? The Jews were the chosen ones, they sinned against God, they were offered redemption through sacrifices and were rebellious. God offered redemption to everyone through the sacrifice of Christ, believe and be saved. The deaths of loved ones often serve a purpose that we don't understand.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:01:14 PM EDT
[#3]
is the bible and the stories therein, an allegory, a metaphor, fiction, or the word of god?
am i to believe, that all of mankind is descendant from two people? to clarify, i believe in God, our Creator, i do not believe in the fictitious story of jesus, mohammed, the bible etc. the First Council of Nicaea = ripe for corruption and personal agendas. lets talk about "christian" holidays, easter, christmas, etc = all have pagan origins. im bbq right now, i can expand on my thoughts later, but i doubt anyone cares   |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:01:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An anecdote: Mark Twain, an atheist, was observed thumbing through the Bible while on his deathbed. He was asked if he was seeking spiritual guidance. He replied that he was looking for loopholes. 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:02:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He didn't write it. The Bible has dual authorship, God and man. It is breathed by God. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:02:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/cool_story_bro-23.jpg God left me in 2001 when he took my father at the age of 53. That's when I lost faith, fuck religion. When my dad and mom passed away I didn’t blame God, the devil, Odin, big foot, or aliens. Just as life happens, so does death. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:03:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had these same doubts. I have left organized religion. I rely on the word of Jesus, from the Bible, and other sources. I think Jesus would be ashamed of modern Christianity. I try to obey the rules Jesus laid out. I pay little attention to "Man's" interpretation of what Jesus meant when he said something. Fucker, I can read, and that's not what it says. It says what it says. I can like it or dislike it, I can believe or not, it's my sould at risk, not yours. We've had brushes with more than one Christian cult. Never again. If anyone tells you how to be an good Christian, be skeptical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This has been coming for about 10 years, it started the first time I read through the bible in whole myself. I was raised in the church since year 0 and believed (or so I thought) in the bible in it's entirely. I was taught that every word of the Bible is truth, that there is not even one error, but in being taught growing up, we were all taught single verses or chapters and how those words might apply to our life today. The bible as a whole is a tough thing to teach... In reading though the bible myself for the first time I saw a God that was supposed to unchanging, change in the extreme over the course of the Bible. He talks about both not tempting people and then tempts people. About not killing innocent people and then punishing his people for not killing innocent people. He makes a promise, then changes it. He sets up rules that are to stand forever with no room for that ever changing, then Jesus changes all that. There are over a hundred contradictions in the bible you never hear about in church because you have to admit there's a lot wrong with it. Even the first 2 chapters (Genesis 1 and 2) tell of completely different orders of creation. A huge contradiction on the first page. The arguments for why this is are extremely thin. One of the biggest things that stood out to me is the promise of heaven with Jesus' message. In the old testament there is Sheol, which is pretty much a place of darkness. A Medium even brings Samuel back from the dead and he talks about this. Then in Daniel, he writes about Eternal Life to get Jews to Martyr themselves after he told them not to fight and realized they needed some encouragement to fight. This concept was huge issue for me. It was about 100 years before Jesus that the idea of Heaven and Hell became really popular with Jews, this is the hot topic and the middle east is struggling with the idea of Heaven and looking for answers. Looking back on my life in the church, I am shocked at how often I was guilted into not questioning the bible. If you quotation things, you need more faith (not answers). The bible is very clear that all good things come from God and bad things do not (except for when they do). How is it that a God that is all powerful creates the Earth, then over the course of the Bible is not able to defeat some enemies, Satan is given more or less free reign of the Earth, allows so much evil in the world. He talks so freely with Adam and Eve, then more crypticly as time goes on (only in secret most of the time, appearing as things like bushes and visions) then goes silent for 2000 years!!!??? I spent decades talking to God and believing 100% in the teachings of Jesus, but never once heard him. I cried at night as a kid terrified I wouldn't do something right and end up in Hell. I grew up in a "good" church, but looking back it was guilt and fear that made me believe. I don't want my kids to have that guilt. It hard but my wife (who separately came to the exact same conclusions) and I are completely out. I've had these same doubts. I have left organized religion. I rely on the word of Jesus, from the Bible, and other sources. I think Jesus would be ashamed of modern Christianity. I try to obey the rules Jesus laid out. I pay little attention to "Man's" interpretation of what Jesus meant when he said something. Fucker, I can read, and that's not what it says. It says what it says. I can like it or dislike it, I can believe or not, it's my sould at risk, not yours. We've had brushes with more than one Christian cult. Never again. If anyone tells you how to be an good Christian, be skeptical. I would add a lot of people's modern day issues are from this trash:  
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:05:30 PM EDT
[#8]
"According to most philosophers, God in making the world enslaved it. According to Christianity, in making it, He set it free. God had written, not so much a poem, but rather a play; a play he had planned as perfect, but which had necessarily been left to human actors and stage-managers, who had since made a great mess of it."
"The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits." -G.K. Chesterton |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:09:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wish you luck and hopefully you find God again someday. Respectfully, it sounds like you were more worried with what some other guy said and taught about God rather than developing your own relationship with him. Humans are fallible creatures. The idea behind faith (to me anyways) isn't to have God swoop down and save you during a difficult time in your life. It's not to have Jesus toss you a spare mag during a gunfight. The idea is to better yourself as a person through your relationship with God, which improves his kingdom. This. The Evangelical sect of Christianity is only one of many, and their notion of what infallibility means leaves much to be desired. I think there is a God, and I think he's the Christian God. I think He imposes as little as possible in order to maintain the framework of free will, but still provides the evidence necessary to render belief in God at the very least reasonable and sensible. He speaks through a combination of the built in cognitive apparatus (i.e., reason and logic), nature, and yes, perhaps some inspiration given to His holy men. But I do reject the Evangelical narrative that God basically basically mind-controlled the authors of scripture and told them what to say word for word, and that the scriptures are thus completely infallible. Just like we afford more evidentiary weight to the historical records of those who actually lived through the events they recorded, I afford the most weight--when it comes to matters of theology--to those who lived and walked with Christ. But I don't think every word they wrote is perfectly factual. They just have a higher probability of being correct than most. That said, I think the basics are laid out clearly enough to give even the simple-minded a moral foundation by which to live their lives, but the theological nuances are best approached from the perspective of a life-long inquiry into the heart and mind of God. "Seek and you shall find" and all that. I guess at the most basic level, Christianity can be thought of as a manual, but past that it's all poetry, and I think God will reward those who seek earnestly, even if they come to the wrong conclusions on the less important matters. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:10:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t blame God for bad things that happen. Also, give him credit for good things that happen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do you say God left you when your dad died? FWIW, God still loves you, he didn’t do that to you, and you should find him again before it’s too late. I’m sorry for your loss, but everyone dies. Don’t blame God for bad things that happen. Also, give him credit for good things that happen. I think he needs to be credited with it all. That’s the thing. When you are the supreme authority, nothing happens unless you allow it to. That’s why everything is God’s will: covid, cancer, stubbing your toe, your child born healthy or dying - it’s all God’s will. I mean if you want to be rational, that is the conclusion you have to arrive at. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:13:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is your take, I think you need to do more reading / praying. I think this is the same sort of thing as when OP was told "you need more faith". |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:14:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: This has been coming for about 10 years, it started the first time I read through the bible in whole myself. I was raised in the church since year 0 and believed (or so I thought) in the bible in it's entirely. I was taught that every word of the Bible is truth, that there is not even one error, but in being taught growing up, we were all taught single verses or chapters and how those words might apply to our life today. The bible as a whole is a tough thing to teach... In reading though the bible myself for the first time I saw a God that was supposed to unchanging, change in the extreme over the course of the Bible. He talks about both not tempting people and then tempts people. About not killing innocent people and then punishing his people for not killing innocent people. He makes a promise, then changes it. He sets up rules that are to stand forever with no room for that ever changing, then Jesus changes all that. There are over a hundred contradictions in the bible you never hear about in church because you have to admit there's a lot wrong with it. Even the first 2 chapters (Genesis 1 and 2) tell of completely different orders of creation. A huge contradiction on the first page. The arguments for why this is are extremely thin. One of the biggest things that stood out to me is the promise of heaven with Jesus' message. In the old testament there is Sheol, which is pretty much a place of darkness. A Medium even brings Samuel back from the dead and he talks about this. Then in Daniel, he writes about Eternal Life to get Jews to Martyr themselves after he told them not to fight and realized they needed some encouragement to fight. This concept was huge issue for me. It was about 100 years before Jesus that the idea of Heaven and Hell became really popular with Jews, this is the hot topic and the middle east is struggling with the idea of Heaven and looking for answers. Looking back on my life in the church, I am shocked at how often I was guilted into not questioning the bible. If you quotation things, you need more faith (not answers). The bible is very clear that all good things come from God and bad things do not (except for when they do). How is it that a God that is all powerful creates the Earth, then over the course of the Bible is not able to defeat some enemies, Satan is given more or less free reign of the Earth, allows so much evil in the world. He talks so freely with Adam and Eve, then more crypticly as time goes on (only in secret most of the time, appearing as things like bushes and visions) then goes silent for 2000 years!!!??? I spent decades talking to God and believing 100% in the teachings of Jesus, but never once heard him. I cried at night as a kid terrified I wouldn't do something right and end up in Hell. I grew up in a "good" church, but looking back it was guilt and fear that made me believe. I don't want my kids to have that guilt. It hard but my wife (who separately came to the exact same conclusions) and I are completely out. No doubt the thread is full of people telling you that you didn't read it right, when really, they didn't read it at all. Any rational person that actually reads it will come to the same conclusion as us. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:16:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you say God left you when your dad died? FWIW, God still loves you, he didn't do that to you, and you should find him again before it's too late. I'm sorry for your loss, but everyone dies. God still loves you but if the don't find him in time he's going to fuck you for eternity.  |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:16:51 PM EDT
[#14]
I don't know what direct relevance has to this thread but I feel moved to simply say that I've been a Christian for the last 29 years. I spent the first 20+ years of my life as an ashiest, and found the Lord in young adulthood. I'm not a church goer but I am a believer. I'm not a good person, but forgiven. I fully believe the bible is the word of the true and living God and am endeavoring to really know the word. I have read the bible in bits and pieces, as I suspect many people have, ignoring the "boring parts" and more or less focusing on the Gospels.
That said, I am halfway through a deep dive of the entirety of the bible and am blown away (both in good and bad ways) of what I've discovered. There are some very unsettling things, particularly in the old testament that make you say to yourself, "Huh?" Death, destruction, all sorts of things that don't seem to make sense as to why the Lord would be not just okay with, but seemingly pushing for and causing. I don't understand the why of it all but that hasn't shaken my faith. However, I can empathize with someone like the OP who sees those things and throws in the towel. I get it. As to the good, some of the Psalms, in particular Ps 139 have really spoken to me. There are others, of course but that one left me speechless. Lastly, and again, I apologize that my post doesn't really seem to go anywhere, I want to say that without the Lord in my life for the last 29 years I can't imagine how I would have turned out or where my life would be. Perhaps incarcerated or dead, I have no idea. But my life is pretty good, in fact pretty great. And I owe it to my relationship with Jesus for guiding and protecting me along the way. I hope this testimony helps someone. I don't know what else to say. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:17:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: am i to believe, that all of mankind is descendant from two people? Shotgun trolling, but here's a good understanding of Genesis 1 from the perspective of a Hebrew slave of the Egyptians:  Reading Genesis with Ancient Eyes by John Walton, Ph.D. TL;DW: the Hebrew escapees had an Egyptian understanding of the world, which didn't concern material origins. They were concerend about the cosmic order, and who was in charge of what, and who "created" by giving things their function. That's what the creation story in Genesis is establishing: not the origins of biological processes, but the idea that YHWH is Lord over all things, the earth, the sky, the sea, man, time, light, etc. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:17:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is your take, I think you need to do more reading / praying. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:18:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/cool_story_bro-23.jpg God left me in 2001 when he took my father at the age of 53. That's when I lost faith, fuck religion. My father passed at 58. Didn't shake my faith. I'll see him again one day. Preferably not from the depths of Hell. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:20:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone make note - Bohr_Adam said something, fairly long and nuanced, in a religion thread, that I agree with. *runs away screaming* Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The absurd reduction in much modern theology to either "how to be a good person" or "how to go to heaven" is, in my opinion, a good deal of the reason many introspective and deep thinkers lose their faith during what amounts to the transition from childlike understanding to full adult understanding. Sadly, much theology today insists on dismissing thousands of years of theology for what amounts to comic books, and plenty of adults of OK with the comic book approach, and won't understand those who aren't. But, the reality and nature of parenting doesn't go away because a young boy decides Santa Claus isn't "real." And the nature of eternal Truth is far deeper than the difference there. Someone make note - Bohr_Adam said something, fairly long and nuanced, in a religion thread, that I agree with. *runs away screaming* He's an intelligent poster when he wants to be.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:20:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Religion is good for society as a whole by basically keeping people from doing bad things. But yeah, it's all made up.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:24:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is this a valid explanation? He created the UNIVERSE but allows errors in his only book??? You can't rationalize irrational things. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:25:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shotgun trolling, but here's a good understanding of Genesis 1 from the perspective of a Hebrew slave of the Egyptians:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci-6ekUmQFETL;DW: the Hebrew escapees had an Egyptian understanding of the world, which didn't concern material origins. They were concerend about the cosmic order, and who was in charge of what, and who "created" by giving things their function. That's what the creation story in Genesis is establishing: not the origins of biological processes, but the idea that YHWH is Lord over all things, the earth, the sky, the sea, man, time, light, etc. ill give this a watch and get back to you this evening, but you still didnt answer my questions and immediately call me a troll? because i questioned your magic book? ok, christian. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:25:52 PM EDT
[#22]
what kind of church were you in, OP?
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:26:04 PM EDT
[#23]
These “coming out” stories always follow a pattern:
1) the OP has legitimate questions about the harmony of the Bible and his faith 2) OP is highly discouraged and shamed as a young person for having doubts or questions 3) OP “good church” relies heavily on guilt and shame to control his behavior. 4) OP reaches the inevitable conclusion that a God that would be inconsistent, harsh, elusive, and hyper controlling is not real. OP will likely not join another religion, but will at best wander through the remainder of his days as an agnostic who never finds certainty in any moral code other than the one he creates in his own mind and at worst become an angry atheist smugly certain that he has divined the truth of the universe and the truth is that it’s all a meaningless cosmic anomaly. Both outcomes create a moral construct that allows OP to do whatever “feels” right free of guilt. OP, I’m so sorry that for 36 years you have been victimized by the American church and ALL of its good intentions. Everything from legalistic shame culture to purity culture has been largely unhelpful in pointing people to the love and truth of God. OP, there are countless books, podcasts , and videos that would address every single doubt and contradiction you have wrestled with. Unfortunately, It is much easier to ignore these resources and just eject. Ejecting feels like finally breaking free from an abusing parent or spouse. It feels AMAZING to walk away from a controlling, contradictory, confusing system of belief…I did it too…. But I never have stopped believing in God or the love of Jesus. I’ve found answers, truth and transcendent morality fit quite well with the larger story of the Bible…even the parts I don’t like or understand. I just didn’t find it in an American church. Peace be with you brother. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:27:05 PM EDT
[#24]
They lost me at Jonah and the whale and Noah and the ark.
Even as a small child, I knew I was being lied to. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:27:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may have read a bible, but was it a King James bible? And if you aren't saved then you won't get much from it. There are no contradictions or errors in the King James bible, only between your ears. 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:27:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Good for you OP. Religion/Christianity is not for everyone. Some of the stories have good moral lessons, but overall it’s outdated in my opinion. Like all mythology, the stories can be used for teaching life lessons, but it shouldn’t be accepted as fact.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:28:23 PM EDT
[#27]
I left Christianity and religion behind when I left my parents home. I knew that I never had faith, only fear and guilt. I got over it.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:32:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t blame God for bad things that happen. Also, give him credit for good things that happen. Uh..One without the other? I am not here to stir up any trouble. Truly here to try and understand. Troubled Catholic. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:34:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Modern Christianity is in the state it's in because of PRIESTCRAFT.
If you have a paid ministry, priests and preachers, then your church has no right to claim truth, nor have divine gifts. They're all grifters. This is a modern invention that perverts the Gospel. Salvation cannot be bought with money, and preachers who are paid cannot lead you there. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:36:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good Christian. Oh, you don’t need to go to church to be a Christian. Teach your kids the same thing. Organized religion has become infiltrated and corrupted by the Left. Bravo sir. This is my take as well. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:36:59 PM EDT
[#31]
I can't believe in anything I can't see.
God's, Santa Claus, Ghosts, Aliens in Earth, etc. But I'm aware of the function of the church in Western culture and the principles our country was founded on. Most people who share my beliefs are Christian and everything in today's culture is trying to destroy them so I constantly defend them. But I can never believe. It isn't the way I am. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:37:18 PM EDT
[#32]
I try my best to be the best version of myself. I will end up where I end up when I die and I will be happy with that.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:37:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to know more about this. They recognize that there are things which seem to contradict each other but are actually tensions between various characteristics of who God is which we just don't have the capacity to scratch the surface of understanding. I'll see if I can find some stuff written about it. (I got stung by a wasp while tying this so I'm a bit preoccupied) In the mean time for the OP, I have found that Jonathan Edwards "Unpublished Essay on the Trinity" really helped me wrap me mind around some of the mystery of the Trinity and God's relationship with himself and us. A Google search will find it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:38:00 PM EDT
[#34]
christian? or pagan??????
sacrifices? why would an all powerful (biblical depiction) god need blood sacrifices? "shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation" "burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord" seriously, what the fuck is shit?  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:38:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bravo sir. This is my take as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good Christian. Oh, you don’t need to go to church to be a Christian. Teach your kids the same thing. Organized religion has become infiltrated and corrupted by the Left. Bravo sir. This is my take as well. I think in the end this is about the best example. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:39:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I spent the last 10 years crying out and reading. The more I read, the more it hurt my faith. I think must people here telling me I'm wrong have not truely read through the whole bible but instead listened to others on what they should believe. Well said…no one is ever gonna make me believe in talking donkeys. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:41:05 PM EDT
[#37]
OP welcome to phase 1...
Simply rejecting the cannon and dogma of the Bible is pretty easy to come to. I rejected all the supernatural, for a while my stance was "God is impossible" and it's all bullshit. Over about 10 years ironically my work in the hard sciences changed my perception quite a bit. The problem of existence itself sort of got me, that topic is actually intense and rigorous within our language of science. Well anyways... I accept the fact that God certainly is possible, the universe we observe a small part of a much larger existence. I think Christ walked the earth, whether or not he was the son of God I can't tell you. I think if he was, a lot got lost in translation. The old testament is a bunch of Jewish camp fire stories, that is pretty obvious. I think that's phase 2, spiritual growth on your own terms. A much more fitting view of the universe from my limited prospective. I find discovery a very fulfilling process, finding something new in the world of science drives me. But I will say that finding myself in state of belief leaves me in an infinite universe with endless possibliy. I sure hope there is some divine spark in the human mind, we are gonna need it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:41:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: christian? or pagan?????? sacrifices? why would an all powerful (biblical depiction) god need blood sacrifices? "shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation" "burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord" seriously, what the fuck is shit? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/258837/Screen_Shot_2021-07-04_at_12_31_50_PM_pn-2001413.JPG Interdasting indeed. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:42:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good Christian. Oh, you don’t need to go to church to be a Christian. Teach your kids the same thing. Organized religion has become infiltrated and corrupted by the Left. @c-4 No shit. I have been to church maybe a dozen times since age 8 or so. I have lost people far too early, seen shitty things and shitty people, but I still have a faith in a higher power and behave in a way that would be considered Christian. I don't beat people over the head with my beliefs or way of life, but I do expect people to treat me as I treat them. You are completely right that organized religion has been co-opted heavily by the Left and the greedy. I realized this not only hearing and reading Leftist doctrine from churches.... but the whole blather about "how could God let "x" happen if he really exists"....and then completely ignoring that if you believe in God, then you also SHOULD believe that there ia also evil in the world, causing chaos..... As well as the idea that life on Earth is a trial/test of each individual and how you react to the good AND the bad. The manipulators have changed this core concept to "if you are religious, then you must believe that everything that happens has been directly CAUSED by God, therefore God is a dickheads and you should stop believing.". |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:43:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can be a good and moral person without believing in God. ETA: Religion can be corrupted and used as a justification for horrific crimes like ISIS. Yep. Some of the biggest crooks in our little town go to church every Sunday and sit up on their "spot" near the front. What turned me off about religion is the old words when something really bad happens. "Well it is God's will". But wait, you taught me God was good and wanted the best for all mankind. He either is what you say and can do anything, or is a sadistic SOB who has fun destroying lives for no reason. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:44:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh..One without the other? I am not here to stir up any trouble. Truly here to try and understand. Troubled Catholic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don’t blame God for bad things that happen. Also, give him credit for good things that happen. Uh..One without the other? I am not here to stir up any trouble. Truly here to try and understand. Troubled Catholic. I'm not a priest or any sort of expert, but in that example it's about humility as I see it. So as I understand the lesson it kinda goes like this: Bad stuff happens, you need to help yourself. You can't wallow in your own despair, you need to take action to better your situation. In common terms that quote from whatever movie "Guy prayed to God every day to win the lottery, but never bought a ticket." When good stuff happens, appreciate your success but don't be a cocky jerk about it and get all self righteous. Non nobis domine, to God goes the glory. "Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory." So basically having some humility that while your actualized your potential as a human being, the potential itself came from God. Aquinas has a good take on applying Aristotle's ideas of potential vs action. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:45:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryThis is where I'm at. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:45:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's okay. You can leave the church but Jesus will not leave you. He'll be there waiting, when you are ready. Yep. OP, the Bible is not about every word being 100% "correct" to you. It's about the salvation offered by Christ's sacrifice, and grace through FAITH. OP needs to read the gospels again, and focus on Jesus' fulfillment of the Word, and his sacrifice FOR YOU. All that other Old Testament stuff is just prelude. Don't get too wrapped around the axle in it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:45:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ill give this a watch and get back to you this evening, but you still didnt answer my questions and immediately call me a troll? because i questioned your magic book? ok, christian. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Shotgun trolling, but here's a good understanding of Genesis 1 from the perspective of a Hebrew slave of the Egyptians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci-6ekUmQFETL;DW: the Hebrew escapees had an Egyptian understanding of the world, which didn't concern material origins. They were concerend about the cosmic order, and who was in charge of what, and who "created" by giving things their function. That's what the creation story in Genesis is establishing: not the origins of biological processes, but the idea that YHWH is Lord over all things, the earth, the sky, the sea, man, time, light, etc. ill give this a watch and get back to you this evening, but you still didnt answer my questions and immediately call me a troll? because i questioned your magic book? ok, christian. Quoted: is the bible and the stories therein, an allegory, a metaphor, fiction, or the word of god? am i to believe, that all of mankind is descendant from two people? to clarify, i believe in God, our Creator, i do not believe in the fictitious story of jesus, mohammed, the bible etc. the First Council of Nicaea = ripe for corruption and personal agendas. lets talk about "christian" holidays, easter, christmas, etc = all have pagan origins. im bbq right now, i can expand on my thoughts later, but i doubt anyone cares https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1835/6621/products/[email protected]?v=1612125166 |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:46:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryA vengeful, grumpy, hard drinking, hard loving, god, seems to be more appealing to me. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:47:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is very much an obvious lesson to those whom wonder why Christianity has been used to further evil intent through history. Many people don’t understand what being a Christian is and yet carry the label either on themselves or their family. Once they get to the point where it’s acceptable to shed beliefs that they never really valued they do so with an exclamation “I’m no longer a Christian”. If you swim in the ocean all day and jump out and say “This doesn’t make sense…..I’m no longer a fish!” Did that mean you were ever a fish? This makes no sense at all. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:47:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simply put, Man was given free will. Would you want a dog that came to you out of fear of being kicked or came to you out of love? The Jews were the chosen ones, they sinned against God, they were offered redemption through sacrifices and were rebellious. God offered redemption to everyone through the sacrifice of Christ, believe and be saved. The deaths of loved ones often serve a purpose that we don't understand. My belief in God as a small child was fueled by the fear of going to hell for disobeying him. I was raised Catholic if that matters at all. I always remember going to confession and having to make up things to tell the priest. I didn’t think I had done anything wrong, but I knew what was expected of me and was afraid I would get in trouble if I didn’t follow suit. I wish I had had the courage to be truthful and to challenge them, but I was eight. I suppose if there is a God, he must’ve been looking out for me. I never got fucked in the ass by any of those weirdos. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:47:37 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:50:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:52:00 PM EDT
[#50]
"drink my blood and eat my flesh" or some shit like that
 Attached FileJohn 6:53-58, King James Version  Attached File |
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