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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:52:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: christian? or pagan?????? sacrifices? why would an all powerful (biblical depiction) god need blood sacrifices? "shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation" "burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord" seriously, what the fuck is shit? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/258837/Screen_Shot_2021-07-04_at_12_31_50_PM_pn-2001413.JPG Suffice to say that the sacrifice in practice was a bbq that made you feel better about fucking something up. The same concept is illustrated by Christ in John 3:14-15 using Numbers 21:6-9: when you're bitten by sin and judgment, look to Christ, who is our sacrifice, and have peace again, because if God sees you as g2g, what can man (or woman) say otherwise? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:53:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To each their own, but the above is correct. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can be a good and moral person without believing in God. To each their own, but the above is correct. Among men there are three forces at work God The Devil And a human beings own flesh The devil and human flesh are 100% evil. Yes a man may be moral without believing in God. Because God is the source of all that is good and moral in the universe. If a man is moral it is because God is the author and finisher of that morality and goodness not the man. A man may not acknowledge the source of all goodness and morality in himself and the world but that does not change the truth of the matter. At a man's judgement he may complain to God that he was a good man and a moral man it will only reveal his own arrogance in thinking that the man was the source of his own goodness or morality...when in reality it was 100% God and 0% man. Then that man's eyes will be finally be opened to the reality of the universe. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:53:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: I was raised in the church since year 0 I cried at night as a kid terrified I wouldn't do something right and end up in Hell. The mark of fake christianity: terrifying children with the satan inspired doctrine of a sadist god.  I grew up in a "good" church, but looking back it was guilt and fear that made me believe. You didnt grow up in a "good" church. You may have been surrounded by well intentioned people but the lies and false doctrine they brainwashed you with was poison. Especially to a child. Thats the worst offense of it all too; to teach a child lies and use fear. Best of luck. You have a long road ahead of you to unlearn that fake christian cult garbage they filled your head with. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:58:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, todays society would actually prove you just a little bit wrong :) Protip, when you make up your own morals, and anything goes, is that good and moral? Bullshit. People can have morals, better morals than some believers without being a christian. Not everyone needs threats of damnation to do the right thing. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 12:59:39 PM EDT
[#5]
I prayed hard for my child in 2012. Then she died and I buried her in a tiny casket.
Then people told me it was “God’s plan”. I decided then I did not want to be part of God’s plan because his plan hurt me too bad. It still hurts me today, 9’ years later. But I support and respect people who believe what they wanna. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:00:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is your take, I think you need to do more reading / praying. "you just aren't rationalizing hard enough." |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:00:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Don't take this the wrong way but your framework for interpreting scripture sounds...underdeveloped. If you're interested in some serious discussion, pick your top contradiction and post a thread in the religion forum.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:01:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What denomination where you? It sounds like you had other issues with your Church overall. I'll pray for you and your family to find the path again. No, it really doesn't. It sounds like he had an issue with the bible, and the church was of no particular use. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:02:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "drink my blood and eat my flesh" or some shit like that https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/258837/josh-applegate-aiKNFBoxoXc-unsplash-1_jp-2001437.JPG John 6:53-58, King James Version https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/258837/Screen_Shot_2021-07-04_at_12_48_06_PM_pn-2001436.JPG |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:03:13 PM EDT
[#10]
All I can say is, His ways are not our ways. And that trying to understand/predict/figure out His plans doesn't work. That is not what faith is. That is trying to find a formula wherein you control things.
I've spent A LOT of time doing that. This post is probably more for me than you. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:04:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I prayed hard for my child in 2012. Then she died and I buried her in a tiny casket. Then people told me it was "God's plan". I decided then I did not want to be part of God's plan because his plan hurt me too bad. It still hurts me today, 9' years later. But I support and respect people who believe what they wanna.  What the Book of Job Is All About | Dr. John Walton |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:05:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Nothing has been responsible for pain, suffering and death more than religion.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:06:45 PM EDT
[#13]
What needs to be understood is this, we are God's most precious creations, His crowning achievements. The only pain Satan can cause to God is to keep us, his most loved creations, from Him. Satan is the prince of this physical realm, he has domain over it, we are protected from his attacks by God's hedge of protection for believer's and unbeliever's. God allows sin to occur in ways that works in His behalf. Death for believer's means being present with the Lord and should be considered a celebratory event.
Faith is an essential element in believing what is "unseen", but believer's can see His works all around them, and our mere existence is proof to many of His existence. Know that Satan and his demons for sure believe and knows his judgement, his only weapon is his deceitfulness of humans to keep them from God. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:10:50 PM EDT
[#14]
So life will be better without Christ in it? Got it.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:11:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good Christian. Oh, you don’t need to go to church to be a Christian. Teach your kids the same thing. Organized religion has become infiltrated and corrupted by the Left. Most people can't remember them. Keep it simple: 1. Keep your word 2. Don't agress against others or their property. And if that's too much-- 1. Do what you want, but be prepared for the consequences |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:11:37 PM EDT
[#16]
From the limited information you gave, it sounds like you were raised in a Church that was heavily invested in the Law and Jesus was second to that. From what I have been told, that was very common in the 80's.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:11:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing has been responsible for pain, suffering and death more than religion. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:11:58 PM EDT
[#18]
I tossed religion shortly after high school, but it wasn't a big deal. It was a class in Greek mythology I had taken my senior year, and I saw too many parallels between a "silly fictional mythology" and a modern religion.
Religion itself is too pre-processed for one thing, it's like cereal box spirituality. Mass produced, prepared answers and instructions. A connection with the divine should be personal, not something you're indoctrinated in by hierarchical priests of an order, reading out of an ancient book written by.. ancient hierarchical priests trying to keep an ancient desert tribe functioning. This is an endless philosophical debate, but I feel the only intellectually honest thing to be is agnostic. I simply cannot know. Belief/faith is irrelevant. Now, I'm not atheist, and certainly not anti-theist; religion may have been responsible for a lot of bad things in history, but also for a lot of good things; hope, faith, motivation, morality, bonding, fellowship, etc. So I generally don't knock religion, some people need it. I get that. I can't force myself to believe in something I do not, however, so I don't hold it against them if they don't hold my view against me. Now sure, there might be some super advanced entity, not that I believe it can read our thoughts or would care to if it could, a "God" for all intents and purposes relative to our place in the universe, that actually created our universe and it's laws of physics, designed all the subatomic particles, and planned the big bang to launch the experiment; at the same time, I suppose it could just be that the universe happened on it's own. Neither is more likely to me than the other, and both are actually highly unlikely and are equally magic, violating cause and effect. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:13:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What needs to be understood is this, we are God's most precious creations, His crowning achievements. The only pain Satan can cause to God is to keep us, his most loved creations, from Him. Satan is the prince of this physical realm, he has domain over it, we are protected from his attacks by God's hedge of protection for believer's and unbeliever's. God allows sin to occur in ways that works in His behalf. Death for believer's means being present with the Lord and should be considered a celebratory event. Faith is an essential element in believing what is "unseen", but believer's can see His works all around them, and our mere existence is proof to many of His existence. Know that Satan and his demons for sure believe and knows his judgement, his only weapon is his deceitfulness of humans to keep them from God. I'm saving that, thanks! 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:13:53 PM EDT
[#20]
This thread reads like a thread from a bunch of socialist arguing about the reasons all previous socialist countries have failed. It always boils down to because the right socialism was not tried. They then try to present their version of the right type of socialism.
Just replace socialism with Christianity, country with church and the above applies perfectly to this thread. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:14:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ironically, when the Bible mentions the word, it's not in a positive connotation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nothing has been responsible for pain, suffering and death more than religion. Yeah, you don't want to visit widows and orphans. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:14:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They lost me at Jonah and the whale and Noah and the ark. Even as a small child, I knew I was being lied to. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:17:57 PM EDT
[#23]
If OP doesn't say what church he was brought up in, how can we bash it?
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:20:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good Christian. Oh, you don’t need to go to church to be a Christian. Teach your kids the same thing. Organized religion has become infiltrated and corrupted by the Left. This is pretty much where I’m at. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:23:00 PM EDT
[#25]
I find it ironic that naysayers point to the failures of men, as proof that the Bible is false. I would say that the failures of men are proof that we need God in order to succeed. Not that He will do it for us, but that which is done through God, is greater than it could be without.
It also seems curious to me that some people are so offended by the mere mention of Christ. If one is so assured of the truth of his statements, he would not be so likely to lash out others. And for the record, society did not flourish before Christ. It was by all accounts, brutal and selfish. I will wholeheartedly applaud any man who can adhere to a moral code, regardless of the source. I also challenge all men to prove, through action, that they see the value in living by a code. Start by banishing negativity from your mind. Instead, when you meet someone, remember that everyone’s life is difficult for them. Learn from them, good or bad. For a truly moral man, does not derive honor or pleasure from berating others. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:23:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, you don't want to visit widows and orphans. It's not that religion (which literally means "to bind") is good, but doing what is beneficial to those who cannot benefit you is good. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:24:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calvinists be like, guess you were never saved anyways Hahahaha…perfect |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:26:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Jesus is the only way to salvation. He came to fulfill the law. The Law is summed up by Jesus as loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself.
We aren't saved by works but by faith only and the Grace of God. Salvation from sin's condemnation is not insulation from Earth's woes. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:26:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread reads like a thread from a bunch of socialist arguing about the reasons all previous socialist countries have failed. It always boils down to because the right socialism was not tried. They then try to present their version of the right type of socialism. Just replace socialism with Christianity, country with church and the above applies perfectly to this thread. Its is like me trying to get a bird out of the garage, it has no idea that I am trying to save it .... stupid fucking bird |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:28:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beginning to think OP is trolling. Says he was raised in the church since year 0 and always a follower. Doesn't know that God didn't write the Bible  Some are taught it is the word of god, divinely inspired directly from him to the hands of the writers. Direct dictation, from his mouth to paper. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:28:28 PM EDT
[#31]
The thing I like about having days off is not having to shave. However, having too many days off in a row makes shaving a beard a PITA when you have to go back to work.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:28:32 PM EDT
[#32]
The Bible is full of contradictions because our lives as sinful beings is full of contradictions. The Bible is written to provide examples of God's will, grace, mercy, punishment and redemption.
The battle between good and evil throughout the Bible is suppose to challenge/build your faith in your own life. It is not meant for you to challenge the Bible, word of God. If you know what is true and good, and you are not battling sin, the Bible, word of God, is not for you. It is for the believers, challenging and building their faith, to walk with Jesus and be with God. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:28:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Getting into this on the internet is never productive, but some of the conclusions you draw need more studying imo.
For example, God was very clear that humanity wasn't ready. He said he was setting some rules, but he'd be sending his son when humanity was ready and give more guidance. So he didn't just change, he did exactly what he said he was going to do. If you're reason for leaving the faith is because you don't understand it, that is the arrogance of man. Faith isn't easy, nor is it clear to see all the time why God does what he does, but saying it doesn't make sense need to me seems like a reason for more formal study of it, not simply concluding it must be wrong. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:31:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Christ Follower here Every religion is the same except for christianity. It is the only faith where God came down to meet man The bible is the only book with thousands of predictions that came to pass Secular writers have actually vouched for Jesus and his life. And yes, organized church can suck because it fails many times to address true christianity. For that, I am sorrry. You cannot be serious. Religions of the world are filled with the creator interacting with humans. Pretty much all of them. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:31:28 PM EDT
[#35]
If one thinks about it, most of the OT was a people who wrote down every detail but could never get their shit together no matter how many times God warned them, in person. It's a lesson for us that they never learned.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:32:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find it ironic that naysayers point to the failures of men, as proof that the Bible is false. I would say that the failures of men are proof that we need God in order to succeed. Not that He will do it for us, but that which is done through God, is greater than it could be without. It also seems curious to me that some people are so offended by the mere mention of Christ. If one is so assured of the truth of his statements, he would not be so likely to lash out others. And for the record, society did not flourish before Christ. It was by all accounts, brutal and selfish. I will wholeheartedly applaud any man who can adhere to a moral code, regardless of the source. I also challenge all men to prove, through action, that they see the value in living by a code. Start by banishing negativity from your mind. Instead, when you meet someone, remember that everyone’s life is difficult for them. Learn from them, good or bad. For a truly moral man, does not derive honor or pleasure from berating others. 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:38:53 PM EDT
[#37]
I’m surprised this made it to page 6
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:41:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not a priest or any sort of expert, but in that example it's about humility as I see it. So as I understand the lesson it kinda goes like this: Bad stuff happens, you need to help yourself. You can't wallow in your own despair, you need to take action to better your situation. In common terms that quote from whatever movie "Guy prayed to God every day to win the lottery, but never bought a ticket." When good stuff happens, appreciate your success but don't be a cocky jerk about it and get all self righteous. Non nobis domine, to God goes the glory. "Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory." So basically having some humility that while your actualized your potential as a human being, the potential itself came from God. Aquinas has a good take on applying Aristotle's ideas of potential vs action. I agree..I think. I believe God is also the one throwing curve balls to see how you react to said curve balls. Testing if you will. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:42:04 PM EDT
[#39]
I briefly went to a Christian school when I was a kid. I remember the teacher convinced everyone in class that the streets in heaven were paved with gold. I was the only one who called bullshit. How the fuck did she know what material they used to pave the roads?
Now that I'm an adult and work construction, I understand why the church always needs money. The cost of building and maintaining roads made of gold has to be astronomical!!!! |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:42:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: This has been coming for about 10 years... It began when I started asking what evidence there was for things like a talking snake or a worldwide flood or a virgin giving birth. "It's in the Bible.", they said. "Yeah, but what evidence is there that it's true?" "It's in the Bible." "I know. There's a lot of incredible stuff in Harry Potter books, too. What evidence is there that it's true?" "It's in the Bible." In other words, there is no evidence. There's none for any other religion, either. Anyway, you have what it takes to think on your own. Get over the resentment of being bullshitted for so long, then go and be free! |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:45:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These “coming out” stories always follow a pattern: 1) the OP has legitimate questions about the harmony of the Bible and his faith 2) OP is highly discouraged and shamed as a young person for having doubts or questions 3) OP “good church” relies heavily on guilt and shame to control his behavior. 4) OP reaches the inevitable conclusion that a God that would be inconsistent, harsh, elusive, and hyper controlling is not real. OP will likely not join another religion, but will at best wander through the remainder of his days as an agnostic who never finds certainty in any moral code other than the one he creates in his own mind and at worst become an angry atheist smugly certain that he has divined the truth of the universe and the truth is that it’s all a meaningless cosmic anomaly. Both outcomes create a moral construct that allows OP to do whatever “feels” right free of guilt. OP, I’m so sorry that for 36 years you have been victimized by the American church and ALL of its good intentions. Everything from legalistic shame culture to purity culture has been largely unhelpful in pointing people to the love and truth of God. OP, there are countless books, podcasts , and videos that would address every single doubt and contradiction you have wrestled with. Unfortunately, It is much easier to ignore these resources and just eject. Ejecting feels like finally breaking free from an abusing parent or spouse. It feels AMAZING to walk away from a controlling, contradictory, confusing system of belief…I did it too…. But I never have stopped believing in God or the love of Jesus. I’ve found answers, truth and transcendent morality fit quite well with the larger story of the Bible…even the parts I don’t like or understand. I just didn’t find it in an American church. Peace be with you brother. @-Sabot42- Genuinely interested, what church did you find ? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:46:08 PM EDT
[#42]
OP, sometimes it is easy to be critical and too analytical, that is just the human in us. I know this because I was like that once, and so is my brother in law. Don't be afraid, you really need to let go of your fear, ask God for the courage to let it all go, put all of your trust in him and just surrender. If you do this and pray whole heartedly, God will bless you with his presence. Has he not performed miracles in your life? Have you asked him too? Ask and you shall receive, trust him and he will make his presence known. I've been witness to so many answered prayers and miracles to have no doubt that God is great. But there was once a time when I was not saved. I used to depend on myself for everything, I used to think I knew everything better, but you know what I was wrong. I know now that everything that I have came from God, even when I was not walking with him, he still provided and was there. Only now that I truly love and appreciate him all of the blessings in my life have increased much more than ever before. Don't ever be too proud to humble yourself.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:48:35 PM EDT
[#43]
I think the religion captures some good Truth, but I honestly don't know how anyone can actually believe the ridiculous and obvious man-made mythology. There was no virgin birth, Jesus wasn't divine, he didn't rise from the dead, and he's not the only path to salvation. Forget about all that stupid crap, OP, but don't forget what the religion actually gets right.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:50:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I briefly went to a Christian school when I was a kid. I remember the teacher convinced everyone in class that the streets in heaven were paved with gold. I was the only one who called bullshit. How the fuck did she know what material they used to pave the roads? Now that I'm an adult and work construction, I understand why the church always needs money. The cost of building and maintaining roads made of gold has to be astronomical!!!! It’s in the Bible Revelation 21:21 ESV And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:52:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a gradual process for me, too. When I was young I couldn't even comprehend that it wasn't true, and now I'm astounded that I actually believed that happy horseshit. It began when I started asking what evidence there was for things like a talking snake or a worldwide flood or a virgin giving birth. "It's in the Bible.", they said. "Yeah, but what evidence is there that it's true?" "It's in the Bible." "I know. There's a lot of incredible stuff in Harry Potter books, too. What evidence is there that it's true?" "It's in the Bible." Anyway, you have what it takes to think on your own. Go and be free! Satan killed 10 people in the bible. God killed 25 million. What the fuck 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:53:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So life will be better without Christ in it? Got it. Would life in the middle east be better without Allah? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:53:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re overthinking this. Follow the Ten Commandments. Try to treat others the way you want to be treated. Believe in forgiveness. That’s the essence of being a good Christian. Oh, you don’t need to go to church to be a Christian. Teach your kids the same thing. Organized religion has become infiltrated and corrupted by the Left. And there it is. The stamp of the true believers. Don’t think too much. Welcome to reality OP. I too had christianity rammed down my throat for 17 years. Left it all behind many years ago. I am honest , fair, test others the way I wish too be treated and put my family above all else. Don’t need a book of stories to teach me that. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:54:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s in the Bible 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:55:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally! Someone else who thinks like I do. I'm a believer as well but I struggle with many aspects of the Bible, especially the fact that the Catholics had centuries to create what they wanted out of it. I treat it more as a collection of morality fables based on history. Do I believe Jesus was delivered to save us from our selves and died for my sins? Absolutely. Do I believe the Genisis story, no, no I don't. My daughter will still be dedicated to our church (a great non denomination worship based church) and will be baptized when she's old enough to understand Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And that right there is a big problem - and just one of many things that gets me labeled as a heretic by nearly all modern denominations despite being a believer. "Divinely inspired" should not be conflated with "infallibly correct", especially throughout not only thousands of years, but also translations between many different languages. The supposed "perfection" of any given translation is something that should give anyone pause, including the faithful. Finally! Someone else who thinks like I do. I'm a believer as well but I struggle with many aspects of the Bible, especially the fact that the Catholics had centuries to create what they wanted out of it. I treat it more as a collection of morality fables based on history. Do I believe Jesus was delivered to save us from our selves and died for my sins? Absolutely. Do I believe the Genisis story, no, no I don't. My daughter will still be dedicated to our church (a great non denomination worship based church) and will be baptized when she's old enough to understand Why ? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 1:55:21 PM EDT
[#50]
If I don't understand something, I'm going to blame the book.
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