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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:11:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your immediate retreat to ad hominem says I'm right on the money  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You are perpetually wrong. I know you are only like 20 years old so I just have to laugh at your ignorance. The shillelagh is absolutely devastating. Your immediate retreat to ad hominem says I'm right on the money No, just letting the world know I am talking down to a child. ETA I also find it amusing that your boot licking extends to cop weapons. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:15:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same force applied to a smaller area equals more pow per pop. Which is the exact opposite of the "how & why" that makes saps so effective. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:17:00 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were not designed for nor ever intended to be used for head strikes. That would be relatively close to using a dead blow hammer on someones head... aka idiotic. They were specifically designed for close in fights where an officer couldn't deliver a full strike or punch, specifically against areas like thighs whenever possible, and with restraint. One of the reasons PD's ditched them so quickly (but long before political correctness became a thing) is how dangerous they can be, great for a life or death fight, but cops were "tuning up" thugs and breaking bones, dislocating joints, bursting organs, tearing muscle/ligament, and simply killing people. A leather sap is a lethal weapon but not in the same vein as say a bat, a sap is actually worse because it takes so much less effort, effectively it's closer to a hammer. I was in fear for my life and I told him to stop. You can direct the rest of your questions to my attorney. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:17:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, just letting the world know I am talking down to a child. ETA I also find it amusing that your boot licking extends to cop weapons. Ad hominem... the last bastion of the insecure and desperate.  ETA what was the thread where I obviously triggered you so badly? While I don't recall your username from diddly... you clearly remember me. So I must be residing deep inside your head. By chance do you have a link? |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:18:38 AM EDT
[#5]
This guy also makes some of the best sprung and un-sprung saps. Also makes coin purses, bandana weights and other interesting leather stuff
WitchDoctorZero |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:23:03 AM EDT
[#6]
old school ice tapper......not tested it myself but it sure feels like it would mess you up, mine is vintage 1960's
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:26:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was in fear for my life and I told him to stop. You can direct the rest of your questions to my attorney. Yup That's why the whole "legality" thing of carrying them is a bit of a moot point. If you're not actively using it the risk of getting in legal trouble for carrying one is minimal (petty misdemeanor in my state). If you're using one in lawful self defense you have bigger issues to deal with than a stupid charge over it's type. Just look at the countless examples of felons using a firearm in selfdefense who often walk (or slap on the wrist) on the petty charges because the defense itself was entirely lawful. Stupid laws are stupid but until "our side" grows the balls to start fighting and repeal such laws were stuck with them... but I'm not holding my breath. 
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:28:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup That's why the whole "legality" thing of carrying them is a bit of a moot point. If you're not actively using it the risk of getting in legal trouble for carrying one is minimal (petty misdemeanor in my state). If you're using one in lawful self defense you have bigger issues to deal with than a stupid charge over it's type. Just look at the countless examples of felons using a firearm in selfdefense who often walk (or slap on the wrist) on the petty charges because the defense itself was entirely lawful. Stupid laws are stupid but until "our side" grows the balls to start fighting and repeal such laws were stuck with them... but I'm not holding my breath. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was in fear for my life and I told him to stop. You can direct the rest of your questions to my attorney. Yup That's why the whole "legality" thing of carrying them is a bit of a moot point. If you're not actively using it the risk of getting in legal trouble for carrying one is minimal (petty misdemeanor in my state). If you're using one in lawful self defense you have bigger issues to deal with than a stupid charge over it's type. Just look at the countless examples of felons using a firearm in selfdefense who often walk (or slap on the wrist) on the petty charges because the defense itself was entirely lawful. Stupid laws are stupid but until "our side" grows the balls to start fighting and repeal such laws were stuck with them... but I'm not holding my breath. Terrible advice. Just having one in your car can get you arrested in many states. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:30:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: are these a fair price, you know for collecting? I bought mine at a gun show for 15 bucks. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:32:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Terrible advice. I gave no advice.  |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:34:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These seem interesting but it seems like every state has some archaic law from the 50's which will ruin your life if you're caught with one. This |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:40:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This Stupid laws are stupid. But since "our side" doesn't fight the stupid... |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:47:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those stupid locks are one of those things I just never have been able to throw away but have yet to use for anything ever. I have boxes of the damn things from over the years. Today GD taught me that I own 87 saps and didn't even know it. I gather up ll I can, they are great for securing the trolling motor to it's mount when going down the highway. Not from theft, but to keep the damn thing from self deploying if you hit a bump. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:51:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Terrible advice. Just having one in your car can get you arrested in many states. If you can and are legally carrying a firearm at the time; I would take that ride laughing all the way to the intake. If not, well.... |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:56:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can and are legally carrying a firearm at the time; I would take that ride laughing all the way to the intake. If not, well.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Terrible advice. Just having one in your car can get you arrested in many states. If you can and are legally carrying a firearm at the time; I would take that ride laughing all the way to the intake. If not, well.... It could theoretically cost you your license to carry in PA. It Will certainly cost you some money in legal fees. Maglight is the way to go. PA and other states have some stupid laws on weapons. They trust me with a loaded pistol but not with a piece of leather with lead sewn inside. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:00:20 AM EDT
[#16]
How about a weighted bookmark, you know, to keep books open?
 Available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble and other fine booksellers. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:12:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Someone in the family has my uncle's 1950's (NC highway patrol) sap. It looks like a 9" scale baseball bat...with a lead ball just a little smaller than a ping-pong ball on the business end and a smaller counterweight ball on the other - connected by one hell of a short, heavy spring and the whole thing stitched down in polished black leather tight like a baseball.
It's a beautiful piece of work, but damn if it's not a vicious little weapon. I took it to high school in 1978 and a friend hammered it down on a chair seat in the library. Sounded like a rifle shot, and cracked a 1/2" hardwood seat all the way through. No idea how'd you even start to "tap" someone with that thing without fully expecting to fracture their skull. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:15:25 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:20:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Can't carry one in PA. same category as a switchblade |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:21:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Got a new sap from Todd Foster. 9 inches 15 ounces. Shot filled. It would knock someone into next week. Saps and Jacks are the most under rated defense things you can carry IMO. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81840/354E0673-E708-4A01-B4B5-F0C8AD163399_jpe-2061529.JPG Oooooo, I want dat. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:27:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It could theoretically cost you your license to carry in PA. It Will certainly cost you some money in legal fees. Maglight is the way to go. PA and other states have some stupid laws on weapons. They trust me with a loaded pistol but not with a piece of leather with lead sewn inside. Such laws should be mocked. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:29:22 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:29:53 AM EDT
[#23]
HB 4009 (2016) - Slungshot was signed into law by Dick Scott in Florida. It repealed the selling and manufacturing ban here. I guess that would make the non coin purse saps legal in Florida, maybe?
You guys always cost me money. 
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:46:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Terrible advice. Just having one in your car can get you arrested in many states. Not having a catalitic converter on your vehicle will also get you arrested but yet every redneck does it. Your point? |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:49:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not having a catalitic converter on your vehicle will also get you arrested but yet every redneck does it. You point? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Terrible advice. Just having one in your car can get you arrested in many states. Not having a catalitic converter on your vehicle will also get you arrested but yet every redneck does it. You point? My point it is stupid to carry if you are a law abiding citizen and can legally carry a gun in PA and many other states. I thought it was pretty clear. Maybe you need a cup of coffee? |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:51:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should see what I can do with 9 inches. Yeah I bet you take it a like a pro. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:52:40 AM EDT
[#27]
who was the arfcommer who said: "I keep an inch and a half guardrail nut on a loop of 550 cord. It's not whiz-bang tactical, but one smack in the grape and it's coloring books for Christmas."
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:55:15 AM EDT
[#28]
“Excuse me while I whip this out”
I’ve got one in my safe that saw action in various places and was handed down to me. I carried it until my department banned such things. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:59:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it have the strap on the other side? I’m going to put some paracord or leather through that brass ring for a strap. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:03:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point it is stupid to carry if you are a law abiding citizen and can legally carry a gun in PA and many other states. I thought it was pretty clear. Maybe you need a cup of coffee? It's illegal to carry a gun in some places in Texas. This is an alternative... Yes I do need one. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:08:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's illegal to carry a gun in some places in Texas. This is an alternative... Yes I do need one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My point it is stupid to carry if you are a law abiding citizen and can legally carry a gun in PA and many other states. I thought it was pretty clear. Maybe you need a cup of coffee? It's illegal to carry a gun in some places in Texas. This is an alternative... Yes I do need one. You do what you have to do and good luck to you. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:10:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These seem interesting but it seems like every state has some archaic law from the 50's which will ruin your life if you're caught with one. Just wondering about that... ETA: It figures PA would ban them. 
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:25:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do what you have to do and good luck to you. I'm not saying I follow that law or don't follow that law. Some people do follow that law though... |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:30:38 AM EDT
[#34]
 Attached FileSpring handle, I only used it once to administer a funny bone love tap. Yes, that is the official name of the technique. 
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:33:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about a weighted bookmark, you know, to keep books open? Available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble and other fine booksellers. Yup A number of the custom leather makers market them as exactly that...  PAGEHOLDER |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:43:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not saying I follow that law or don't follow that law. Some people do follow that law though... In my state firearm open carry is legal along with concealed carry (permit) Concealed carry of an unloaded firearm is also legal Concealed carry of a loaded firearm is a petty misdemeanor So some folks choose to skip the regulations and risk the chance of a PM to carry concealed, but then remove the magazine and place into another pocket in certain situations where warranted. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:46:42 AM EDT
[#37]
I bought a 9” flat sap from a guy up by Calgary about 7 years ago. It’s held up very well. It was less expensive than the ones made here in the USA. I think the shipping made up for the difference. He told me when I bought it, not do edge strikes because it would rip the seam.
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Posted: 8/22/2021 12:12:27 PM EDT
[#38]
OC spray is a better alternative self-defense weapon than a sap. You're more likely to use that than a gun or a sap. Saps are cool, but legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun. Saps are from an age where cracking someone over the head was an acceptable action.
Besides, I'd rather have a collapsible baton than a sap. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 12:12:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bought a 9” flat sap from a guy up by Calgary about 7 years ago. It’s held up very well. It was less expensive than the ones made here in the USA. I think the shipping made up for the difference. He told me when I bought it, not do edge strikes because it would rip the seam. I’m not sure what you mean by “rip the seam”… Edge strikes are a big part of how you’d use one. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 12:23:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: who was the arfcommer who said: "I keep an inch and a half guardrail nut on a loop of 550 cord. It's not whiz-bang tactical, but one smack in the grape and it's coloring books for Christmas."  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:20:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun Quote HistoryQuoted: legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun Care to explain... Saps are from an age where cracking someone over the head was an acceptable action. Saps have never been meant to be used to "crack someone over the head". That would be nearly the same as hitting someone in the head with a hammer. Besides, I'd rather have a collapsible baton than a sap. An ASP isn't even in the same league as a sap, but I'll go ahead and ask... Why? |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:22:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Edge strikes are a big part of how you’d use one. That would be incorrect, and in large part defeat the purpose of the design. And yes you'll quickly split the seam. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:24:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Todd Foster is tier-one level expensive.
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:26:44 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:40:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Really seems like a much better offensive option than a defensive one. If the fight is actually ongoing, I’d much rather have something like a nightstick or baton (let alone a knife or gun).
I really would like to have one, even though I’m way past the point of my life where I might actually need it. A much better tool for LE patrol than OC or TASER. Widespread use of these in US law enforcement (and appropriate training/RoE) would have probably saved a lot of asshats killed by cops over the last decade or so. Wake up a in a cell with a hell of a headache, or don’t wake up at all because you kicked a cop’s ass and got shot. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 2:21:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. Is it kept in place with just the belt pressure ? Yes , in combination with the two rivets, the hand strap and the belt line seam of jeans. Stays right there, just make the choice between blade and sap. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 2:27:47 PM EDT
[#47]
I like the "key chain" option. Trying to find a pure tungsten bullring, maybe 2" diameter at largest, 3/8 diam of rod used to make it, maybe 1/2".
I have had no luck, but can find rods. Also looking for a tungsten belt buckle. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 2:53:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be incorrect, and in large part defeat the purpose of the design. And yes you'll quickly split the seam. There ain’t no way any of my saps would “split the seam”. You’d have to see one to understand I guess. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 4:05:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Many years ago, my dad carried a Yawara while employed as a deputy US Marshal many years ago. He called it a 'come along'. It had a mildly serrated spiral ridge around it and Dad demonstrated to me one time how he could press that ridge into my elbow while saying 'come along'. I was immediately ready to comply.
Besides a compliance tool, it was also helpful to reinforce the hand while throwing a punch and could also be used for other impact strikes. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 4:13:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Not a Sap, but I built this quite a while back. You know what they say about your Christmas present after taking a hit to the grape with it.
 
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