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Posted: 8/22/2021 4:18:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These seem interesting but it seems like every state has some archaic law from the 50's which will ruin your life if you're caught with one. I suspect our laws were made by people who watched the Untouchables as children. And Bruce Lee movies. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 4:33:14 PM EDT
[#2]
A lot of police uniforms used to have a pocket for them.
Heard from a few old timers they were great persuaders but easily misused. BTW, edge strikes were definitely part of the training for delivery to large muscles according to my dad. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 4:59:51 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a S&W one.
My high school friend found in in a car his Dad just bought. It was 1978. I gave him a buck. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:28:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Seems like a tool the Taliban would use , I remember a friend of mine had one I think it was his dads as he was a bouncer in bars and nightclubs in Ireland anyway he just tapped me with it and it surprisingly hurt more than I thought it would ,yea I wouldn’t t want to fight anyone who had one of those .
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:43:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of police uniforms used to have a pocket for them. Heard from a few old timers they were great persuaders but easily misused. BTW, edge strikes were definitely part of the training for delivery to large muscles according to my dad. Lol many uniforms still do. All mine have a sap pocket both sides. I keep a multitool in one and my espantoon goes through the belt ring and into the other. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:48:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Find this interesting. For those scenarios where you don’t want to use a firearm, but still have a legal justification and need to adjust an attitude. There’s a pretty narrow range where you don’t have legal justification to use a firearm but you can smack them with a pound of lead in a leather sock. Not to say saps and jacks don’t have utility; but lower legal use of force justification isn’t a strong point. They are definitely capable of causing serious bodily injury even when targeted at large muscle groups like thighs or pectorals. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:50:41 PM EDT
[#7]
I got one of these. If you can't carry a weapon on campus, this is the next best thing. There's lead weights on each end.
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:52:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're surprisingly completely unregulated in WA but that doesn't stop the retarded state academy instructors from showing pictures of saps and blackjacks in their PowerPoint slide show of regulated 'dangerous weapons'  The law says slung shot, sand clubs, and metal knuckles are illegal. Nothing about saps, jacks or non metal knuckles. Not an expert in WA law; but I’d look at how the courts have interpreted that and not just the letter of the law before carrying a sap or jack. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:55:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should see what I can do with 9 inches. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 5:58:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Texas tells me I can't have one, I am for sure ordering one then.. They are legal to own and carry in Texas; but the prohibited places aspect of it is more complicated than firearms. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 6:01:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about a weighted bookmark, you know, to keep books open? https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31Sv7gzEbWL._AC_.jpg Available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble and other fine booksellers. Most of those don’t have a lot of weight in them or the stitching to stand up to a good whack; but people who make saps will certainly make you something that looks very much the same. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 6:04:52 PM EDT
[#12]
I can’t get past the leather aesthetic. Looks too much like a kinky bedroom toy. Or something one of the village ppl might whip out in a dance club.
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Posted: 8/22/2021 6:12:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of police uniforms used to have a pocket for them. Heard from a few old timers they were great persuaders but easily misused. BTW, edge strikes were definitely part of the training for delivery to large muscles according to my dad. Columbia’s Rugged Outdoor Chinos have an “accessory pocket” that is in the exact same place as a sap pocket and fits a Buchmeier Midget or Junior sap perfectly (depending on how comfortable you are with part showing). They’re shit trousers besides that though - not rugged or durable. Also a pound of lead on your thigh swings around a bit if you have to run. Duluth Trading is another company. Their Firehose Cargo pants/shorts have great pockets for sap midget/junior saps and it is actually a quality product. However, they are even lower on the thigh than the ROC pants and of course, they look inappropriate in say, an office setting. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 8:22:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are legal to own and carry in Texas; but the prohibited places aspect of it is more complicated than firearms. I can't read to well.... 
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Posted: 8/23/2021 3:45:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really seems like a much better offensive option than a defensive one. If the fight is actually ongoing, I’d much rather have something like a nightstick or baton (let alone a knife or gun). I really would like to have one, even though I’m way past the point of my life where I might actually need it. A much better tool for LE patrol than OC or TASER. Widespread use of these in US law enforcement (and appropriate training/RoE) would have probably saved a lot of asshats killed by cops over the last decade or so. Wake up a in a cell with a hell of a headache, or don’t wake up at all because you kicked a cop’s ass and got shot.  Attached FileHead strikes with an impact weapon are a very effective way to kill people. Jesus Christ. |
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Posted: 8/25/2021 3:36:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Interesting weapons for sure.
I do wonder if anyone has used a “bookmark” or “change purse” as a defensive weapon, especially since they seem to be for people in places that don’t really want you to defend yourself. Can’t someone just Google “leather change purse that looks like a sap?” Kind of like the old fruit knife stuck in an apple “nonweapon.” Seems like the charade is weak. |
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Posted: 8/25/2021 3:37:39 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 8/25/2021 6:32:12 PM EDT
[#18]
When I was processing with KBR to go to Iraq in 2009 I took a close look at the weapon rules and noticed no mention of Saps and Expandable Batons.
Tried to find either one in Houston with no luck before flying out. In Iraq, I learned rebar works pretty well as a blunt impact weapon. So the question is - would you rather carry a Sap or Asp Expandable baton? |
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Posted: 8/25/2021 6:33:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was processing with KBR to go to Iraq in 2009 I took a close look at the weapon rules and noticed no mention of Saps and Expandable Batons. Tried to find either one in Houston with no luck before flying out. In Iraq, I learned rebar works pretty well as a blunt impact weapon. So the question is - would you rather carry a Sap or Asp Expandable baton? sap. ASP just bends when you get after someone with it. 
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Posted: 8/26/2021 12:08:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was processing with KBR to go to Iraq in 2009 I took a close look at the weapon rules and noticed no mention of Saps and Expandable Batons. Tried to find either one in Houston with no luck before flying out. In Iraq, I learned rebar works pretty well as a blunt impact weapon. So the question is - would you rather carry a Sap or Asp Expandable baton? Spring activated ASP baton. they must be available somewhere in the world. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 3:57:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not today GD, you won't cost me any money. Cause I bought one the last time this subject came up. 
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Posted: 8/26/2021 4:05:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OC spray is a better alternative self-defense weapon than a sap. You're more likely to use that than a gun or a sap. Saps are cool, but legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun. Saps are from an age where cracking someone over the head was an acceptable action. Besides, I'd rather have a collapsible baton than a sap. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 4:10:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Collapsible batons are garbage. The short ones you could carry concealed are so short you have to get too close. The larger ones are too big to hide and the hollow shafts aren't very convincing when you strike where you are supposed to. You have to be close with a sap too, but I'd take a thigh shot from a baton over a sap any day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OC spray is a better alternative self-defense weapon than a sap. You're more likely to use that than a gun or a sap. Saps are cool, but legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun. Saps are from an age where cracking someone over the head was an acceptable action. Besides, I'd rather have a collapsible baton than a sap. Hence one of the reasons for the spring loade. They don't collapse easily. And activating it gets a good first hit. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 4:11:43 PM EDT
[#24]
My 43X only weighs 4 more ounces…
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Posted: 8/26/2021 4:25:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Old padlock in a sock is pretty effective too. That's what we used in the hood of my youth.
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Posted: 8/26/2021 4:26:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Hell in Tennessee I'd be more likely to get away with shooting someone in self defense than using that thing.
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Posted: 8/26/2021 4:29:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These seem interesting but it seems like every state has some archaic law from the 50's which will ruin your life if you're caught with one. Virginia sure does  otherwise I'd have one. Or two I could certainly just buy them to collect, but that doesn't interest me. Back in an earlier generation, these tools were certainly extremely useful for resolving certain social situations with a certain level of discretion. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 9:43:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hence one of the reasons for the spring loade. They don't collapse easily. And activating it gets a good first hit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: OC spray is a better alternative self-defense weapon than a sap. You're more likely to use that than a gun or a sap. Saps are cool, but legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun. Saps are from an age where cracking someone over the head was an acceptable action. Besides, I'd rather have a collapsible baton than a sap. Hence one of the reasons for the spring loade. They don't collapse easily. And activating it gets a good first hit. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 9:58:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was processing with KBR to go to Iraq in 2009 I took a close look at the weapon rules and noticed no mention of Saps and Expandable Batons. Tried to find either one in Houston with no luck before flying out. In Iraq, I learned rebar works pretty well as a blunt impact weapon. So the question is - would you rather carry a Sap or Asp Expandable baton? Well, the expandable baton has more reach than an equally concealable sap/billy. That’s pretty much the only advantage I can think of. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 9:58:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should see what I can do with 9 inches. |
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Posted: 8/26/2021 10:31:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got a Monadnock that has a button to collapse it. It's a better compliance/movement tool than a striking one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OC spray is a better alternative self-defense weapon than a sap. You're more likely to use that than a gun or a sap. Saps are cool, but legally speaking, they're pointless if you have a gun. Saps are from an age where cracking someone over the head was an acceptable action. Besides, I'd rather have a collapsible baton than a sap. Hence one of the reasons for the spring loade. They don't collapse easily. And activating it gets a good first hit. the original ASP had a compressed spring in it to expand the baton and keep it from collapsing. To collapse it you had to pretty much put all of your body weight over the top of it to compress it and then lock it. Beleive they were outlawed because people were walking up to others and releasing the spring loaded ones into their face. Seriously fucking them up. The original ASP was a serious contenda. |
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Posted: 9/6/2021 1:59:39 AM EDT
[#32]
I still need to order one
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Posted: 9/6/2021 2:05:44 AM EDT
[#33]
A monkey fist is easy to carry.
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Posted: 9/13/2021 1:03:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes , in combination with the two rivets, the hand strap and the belt line seam of jeans. Stays right there, just make the choice between blade and sap. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Interesting. Is it kept in place with just the belt pressure ? Yes , in combination with the two rivets, the hand strap and the belt line seam of jeans. Stays right there, just make the choice between blade and sap. @bgenlvtex Just wanted to say thanks for the tip ! I hate stuff in my pockets and like the sap in the waistband much more than in back pocket. Very comfy and is how I now carry it now, kinda stupid that I never considered that myself.
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Posted: 9/13/2021 10:31:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These seem interesting but it seems like every state has some archaic law from the 50's which will ruin your life if you're caught with one. This, in many cases you might be better off legally shooting them. Automatic knives are another one. They were only recently made legal here to even own. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 11:00:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Mean Gene makes a nice one. I carry it a lot.
https://www.meangeneleather.com/shop/mgl-hot-tamale-less-lethal-coin/  |
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