Check around the next time the EAA Ford Tri-Motor comes to your area. Rides start at $75 or so if you are a member. It's a neat old piece of tin (literally) and a fun ride.

Ford trimotor 210 by jhnstn1, on Flickr

Ford trimotor 214 by

jhnstn1, on Flickr

Ford trimotor 220 by jhnstn1, on Flickr

Well they were converted T-6 Texans converted to be the A6M2 and Vultees I think we're converted to be Kates or Val dive bombers so albeit they are American aircraft, they are not fighters.

True.  They are all trainers.  

I have flown in numerous warbirds and I always felt safer in them than a commercial plane.

Just spitballing. If the fighters were cleared into the bomber block and the P-63 was the trailer, then perhaps the plan was a fighter parade ahead of the bombers. But something or combo of somethings futzed that up.

Not assigning any blame, just wondering.

They're well taken care of from what I've seen, obviously nothings going to fair well in a midair collision commercial or military.

I missed the event this year, but got to crawl around in FiFi a few years back when she came to Lexington with Aluminum Overcast. I'll keep an eye out for more CAF events at LEX and come say hi if you're there.

All that said, sorry for your loss, but thank you for sharing your perspective.

GA accidents are generally not deemed national newsworthy, so unless it occurs locally to you, you're not likely to hear of it.

No, it happens quite a bit, relatively.

Sure, but if two 172s crash it's not a statistically relevant percentage. Two B-17s in three years is a huge percentage of the ones that fly.

Some warbird accidents are not reported widely either.  

Someone I knew fairly well died in his T28 right near where I lived and other than the local news,  It was not widely reported.  There are other instances of such things.  Likely because those aircraft are not widely known as warbirds,  So the news doesn't see it as being so sensational.

Been on it twice.

The first time I was the last to board and as I was looking for a seat, the pilot turned around and asked if anyone wanted shotgun.

My wife donated a complete set of B29 manuals to CAF that her dad had when he flew B29s. Reading all those was like taking a step back in history.

How do I word this...
Well..  No shit Sherlock.


When you crash one of 6 of something it is a huge percentage for that particular item.  

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I was a passenger in a WWII era aircraft during a formation flight when an event occurred which was pilot induced. It could have been catastrophic, but proper formation positioning and response by the pilot averted the crash.

Probably not here nor there, but just to say that things happen fast in these aircraft.

Guys buying their way into vintage fighters might have more than their share of incidents relative to GA, due to not having enough experience to take decisive corrective actions in time. The 500 hour guy that crashed a Sea Fury comes to mind, but maybe there aren't actually more of that type of incident relative to more common GA. That is to say, the perception exists, even thought it may be unfounded due to the coverage a Mustang or Sea Fury gets relative to a 172. I made a dumbass mistake on the night flight for my PPL that could have been very bad. That same dumbass mistake in a Mustang would have been very bad.

these guys buying their way in over their head and making the national news are not the guys flying in airshows

No offense but absolutely not.

Out of curiosity I skimmed some searches and saw an AOPA article from 95 that cited more than 4 reportable Cessna 172 accidents per week.

Kinda puts the rates into perspective. I don't know how much it's changed since then with the decline of GA

Alright.  Just spitballing based on the photos, but thank you for your descriptive rebuttal.  Perhaps I should have said "very high AOA" instead.  

Nice edit, too

I would not lump Galloping Ghost in with the other crashes. That is like lumping Nascar crashes into highway crashes. Galloping Ghost was modified heavily and being used for racing which tends to have higher risk.  This year we crashed 3 Honda racecars. Does that make driving a Honda inherently more dangerous than say a Kia ? According to you Hondas should be banned

I'm trying to be somewhat patient while I read post after post of GD grade "aviation expertise" which translates to pure grade nonsense.

Regarding the B-29's being underpowered, how much of that is due to constraints on engine output from 100LL or power settings that have longevity/reliability in mind?

Is the B-24 similar?
@MudEagle

I had the last seat on the left, the first seat as you entered the rear door. It was comforting to see that one-inch gap in the door as the aircraft banked left.

Sorry, didn't realize my certificate was fake.  I'll let the FAA know I was issued a conterfeit.  

I'll ask you for preapproval for anything I say from here on out in the thread.

I flew a now out of business cheap airline once that had cold air coming in around the passenger door and a plane that was limited to 31,000 feet according to the pilot. This was a 727 style plane

The early B-29s suffered from engine issue of the Wright Duplex Cyclones. Those issues were later resolved and then those Wrights were some of the best radials made and continued to be used until the piston age in military aircraft came to an end. One famous aircraft that used the same family of the Duplex Cyclone was the Skyraider.

Kevin Michels is said to be one of six men who died in the midair collision at the Dallas airshow




Michels flew with the CAF Gulf Coast Wing's B-17 Texas Raiders






Dan Ragan, left, was also killed alongside Kevin Michels, right



















More

Those are hard to look at.

Fuck!

This pic is horrifying. Open in a separate window and zoom. You can see the right seater with his right arm up on the roof and his left grasping the sliding window/frame and looking out and back.  

Jesus.

I can’t speak to the B-29 but I can tell you that the DC-6’s still flying freight up here are operating at reduced gross weights partly due to lack of 145 octane avgas, and a further reduction if ADI isn’t used. Basically we’re just not seeing the planes operate the way they were intended to, but that trade off gives more reliability and longevity of the engines.
That said, even with the good fuel, water injection and the original blowers installed giving full manifold pressure, these still aren’t rocket ships. Jets kicked their ass for a reason. Still, nothing comes close to the sound of the old radials :o)

I think most would be shocked at the number of fatal accidents per week. The report after a holiday weekend is always heavy.

It appears someone is also riding in the front nose.

Flew many airshows with Curtis. RIP Aviator.

God this whole thing sucks so bad.

Fkna.. all because of 1 stupid ass person/decision.

That picture get worse the more I look at it.  You can see a body in the middle of the wreckage between the P-63 and the remnants of the B-17.  I have a good Idea who that body is.  

Cold air around a door on a plane like a 727 comes from frozen insulation blankets inside of the door. It is really, really cold up there. The cabin is also pressurized. Any gap in the door seal will cause cabin air to exit obnoxiously. Loud squeal. If there is enough of a gap, the cabin loses pressure and the masks drop.

I wouldn't call anyone in the aircraft a stupid ass,  It is a horrible accident.  Nobody climbed in a plane planning the outcome here.  

I am sure there was a nose rider and two waist gunner riders judging by past video and pictures.

Makes me sick.  

Our group (as far as I know) was the first to bring the UH-1 into the ride program back in the 90s. We wrote the training, maintenance and medical SOP, and obtained the waivers. I believe the organizations flying them today still use some of our original work. The aircraft were maintained to military standards by military mechanics. Let me tell you it took years to get the FAA approvals. I felt comfortable putting myself and/or my wife on the Hueys.
We worked hard to keep them safe and spent lots of time training on the ground and in the air.

My Son & I flew on Texas Raiders almost a decade back.



Very Tragic that she & her crew were lost in that terrible accident

Bigger_Hammer

My deepest condolences to all who knew the men involved in this tragic accident.
I waited to post until the names involved were made public, and I thank God I didn't know any of them personally.

As a kid in the 60's, I used to sit on the roof of our barn watching B-17's, B-24's and A-26's flying tree top level formations over my head spraying for mosquito's.
I was a sponge for the WWII, Korea and Viet Nam pilots who taught me to fly.  I sold my soul to be amongst these Great Men and their flying machines.

Too many times I have been standing show center behind the Air Boss when something like this happens, Mid-air, G-Loc, CFIT you name it.....
I have watched friends or people I was just talking to at the morning brief die in aviation accidents and this thread has brought back some awful suppressed visions and memories.
All in all, this is wearing on me more than I thought it would.

Now, I try my best not to get tagged to work airshow's (or accidents) anymore, although being a SME I'm not always successful.  Someone has to train the new IIC's.
Over the years, I've worked with founding members of ICAS and NDPER's (National Designated Pilot Examiner (NDPER) is designated a "National Resource", and is authorized by the FAA to provide check rides on a national basis) and many Regional Air Show Coordinators and the National Air Show Coordinator.  

I've worked a few warbird accidents, and a B-17 total hull loss as a matter of fact (no fatalities thank God) and as MudEagle has stated, it has gotten better.
This may make some think I'm callous but in one way, the system worked, as no spectators were involved.

I wouldn't be surprised the winds are shifting, bringing with them some major changes down the line.
The winter brief I have scheduled next week with one of the Jet Demonstration Teams (for a show next year) will be interesting.

Tonight, I'll raise a glass and toast those who have "Gone West".

High Flight
Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds ... and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of ... wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew.
And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

Fly Safe!

Derby style commercial crab fishing was probably as bad as cave diving before they ended that  insanity.

That tarp makes me think somebody was in the tail.

I know it looks like a direct hit from an 88. Fuckin sad.

I don't see that as callous.  The goal is for no fatalities at all.  But the planning and all the routines are done to prevent the spectators from being victims.  

The performers know the gig and play it as safe as possible.  


I hope that there isn't any major knee jerk changes that hinder the airshow circuit.

100% agree no one planned on that outcome. But what was done to prevent it? A bad decision resulted in this outcome at some point in the "swiss cheese". This accident will be dropped in the pilot error category, and the "why" will most likely never actually be known.

Edit: it's really sad to see the lose of life and loss of historic significance. But I would probably never get in one of those warlords. Maybe a P51, but idk. Everything about the whole thing scares the shit outta me

It is likely covering the waist gunner passengers bodies.