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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:44:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like it came straight down from 30,000ft. Damn. That had to be one hell of a ride down. Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:44:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Other than the 737MAX, the rest of the Boeing fleet haven't shown any unusual behavior conditions. If you REALLY want to freak out, read the reports on the flight control systems on the Airbus accidents that have happened in the past 25 years. And their flight control design philosophy spans across their entire product spectrum, so they all share similar design constraints/weaknesses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Name the last USA major airliner crash. I can't. I get your point. Still doesnt make me want to get on a Boeing plane  Other than the 737MAX, the rest of the Boeing fleet haven't shown any unusual behavior conditions. If you REALLY want to freak out, read the reports on the flight control systems on the Airbus accidents that have happened in the past 25 years. And their flight control design philosophy spans across their entire product spectrum, so they all share similar design constraints/weaknesses. I know this crash wasn't a MAX so no MCAS involved. The funny thing is that MCAS is something Airbus would do. It was a complete departure from Boeing's historical approach. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:46:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The probability of such a depressurization scenario is very low. Passenger aircraft are very large volumes, and for open hole areas almost as large as a window, the depressurization transient is roughly on the order of tens of minutes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like it came straight down from 30,000ft. Damn. That had to be one hell of a ride down. Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. I was thinking more along the lines the back of the cabin area snapped off. But I guess we’ll see. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:47:38 AM EDT
[#4]
There are unconfirmed reports that they plane may have been hijacked and the pilot did this specifically to stop the real intention of having the plane hit a major population center.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:49:29 AM EDT
[#5]
If I had a nickel for every time GD said a plane crash was due to terrorists...
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:50:38 AM EDT
[#6]
May they RIP (unless they were all wuhan scientists)
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:56:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Airplanes don't go straight when the tail is missing...  Come Fly with the B-2 Spirit Stealth Bomber |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:58:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pilot was talking to the co-pilot about fried rice, and the co-pilot thought he said "fly right." So the co-pilot made a hard right turn, but there was a mountain there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In before pilot names jokes. The pilot was talking to the co-pilot about fried rice, and the co-pilot thought he said "fly right." So the co-pilot made a hard right turn, but there was a mountain there. 
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:00:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "No word on casualties." It slammed into a mountain. I'll make a prediction. The image shown above looks like a nosedive to the ground, not a mountain strike. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:14:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Climate change caused the crash
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:19:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pilot guys on here: Can something like a 737 do a vertical dive and pull out, are the structurally sound enough to? I know fighters are built differently. That video is horrible, I feel for the people. Sure, if they have enough altitude. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:24:30 AM EDT
[#12]
China operated?
Someone didn’t do maintenance and checks. But then again Boeing has been on a trajectory of subpar post-American exceptionalism. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:28:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a nutshell, the answer is no. Once the nose goes below 45 or 50° nose low, unless the aircraft is very slow, (unlikely) the aircraft does not have the structural capability to withstand the G’s that would be required for recovery. If the pilot pulled up very gently to avoid over G’ing the aircraft, the airspeed would climb. So it would be a trade-off of how hard you could pull relative to how fast the airplane was going. It is possible, depending on the circumstances, to recover, but you might incur structural damage. The aircraft might possibly still be flyable with that damage. Certainly if you’re going 400 knots straight down there’s no way to recover. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pilot guys on here: Can something like a 737 do a vertical dive and pull out, are the structurally sound enough to? I know fighters are built differently. That video is horrible, I feel for the people. In a nutshell, the answer is no. Once the nose goes below 45 or 50° nose low, unless the aircraft is very slow, (unlikely) the aircraft does not have the structural capability to withstand the G’s that would be required for recovery. If the pilot pulled up very gently to avoid over G’ing the aircraft, the airspeed would climb. So it would be a trade-off of how hard you could pull relative to how fast the airplane was going. It is possible, depending on the circumstances, to recover, but you might incur structural damage. The aircraft might possibly still be flyable with that damage. Certainly if you’re going 400 knots straight down there’s no way to recover. So, no then yes, then structural failure? If you’re at a high enough altitude you absolutely could. US airline training requires unusual attitude recovery training in the simulator. If done as trained you absolutely could recover from that. Who cares if the airframe never flies again, but a transport category aircraft could recover if it has enough altitude. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:35:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wasn't a max here, but, the max is the last I can think of where the entire fleet was grounded. 300 people dead in 2 crashes, no max flown for two years... It ain't good. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:35:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Airplanes don't go straight when the tail is missing...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vb7IKhVKu4Lol thats a horrible comparison. The B-2 is fly by wire and cant perform without functioning flight computers. Especially if theres an issue with the air data probes (which caused one to crash). The Boeing 737 NG is an old fashioned stick and rudder aircraft with no fly-by wire. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#16]
If I happened to be a suicidal pilot in that aircraft, I would do a full TOGA thrust climb into a hammerhead stall. Then attempt an inverted flat spin before transitioning into a lawn dart landing. But that's just me.
btw, inverted flat spins are the bees knees. 
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:44:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the plane crashes the last 5 years really makes me not want to fly at all. Glad I work at home.   Drama Llama much? |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:49:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NGs have been out of production for 10+ years now. ???? It's says this planes first flight was in 2015. According to Wiki, the NGs were in production through 2019. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:50:33 AM EDT
[#19]
China pilots…. Poor 747.
  China Airlines 747 smashing into cargo containers at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:52:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Damn RIP
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:53:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryGo over to YouTube and listen to the Chinese pilots cause ATC to lose their shit, with their inability to follow instructions etc. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:57:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every Max built is in the air today. I would fly on one every day with zero worry on major US carriers. Errr.....except those 2 that caused all the fuss. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:58:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JFC, some of you guys... The odds of being in a fatal crash on a 737 are approximately 1 in 10 million for any given flight (give or take, depends on the exact model). That's safer than stepping into your shower. Especially that dark old slippery tub in Mom's basement. Yeah but odds of dieing in any plane crash are only 1 in 10k. And that’s not terrible but it’s definitely not great at all. Dieing by dog attack is 1 in 70k but I guarantee there are probably more people here afraid of dogs then airplanes. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:01:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol thats a horrible comparison. The B-2 is fly by wire and cant perform without functioning flight computers. Especially if theres an issue with the air data probes (which caused one to crash). The Boeing 737 NG is an old fashioned stick and rudder aircraft with no fly-by wire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Airplanes don't go straight when the tail is missing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vb7IKhVKu4Lol thats a horrible comparison. The B-2 is fly by wire and cant perform without functioning flight computers. Especially if theres an issue with the air data probes (which caused one to crash). The Boeing 737 NG is an old fashioned stick and rudder aircraft with no fly-by wire.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:05:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah but odds of dieing in any plane crash are only 1 in 10k. And that’s not terrible but it’s definitely not great at all. Dieing by dog attack is 1 in 70k but I guarantee there are probably more people here afraid of dogs then airplanes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: JFC, some of you guys... The odds of being in a fatal crash on a 737 are approximately 1 in 10 million for any given flight (give or take, depends on the exact model). That's safer than stepping into your shower. Especially that dark old slippery tub in Mom's basement. Yeah but odds of dieing in any plane crash are only 1 in 10k. And that’s not terrible but it’s definitely not great at all. Dieing by dog attack is 1 in 70k but I guarantee there are probably more people here afraid of dogs then airplanes. Wait until you see the odds of dying in a car crash. You’ll never leave the basement again. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:06:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a great documentary about the MAX and the flight control problems it has. The new 737s still use the old airframes. The whole upgrade process was hastily thrown together to compete with airbus. It is a dangerous plane and it always has been. Netflix ? where ? |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:08:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryThose are free Taiwanese Chinese not Red Commie Chinese... BTW I was on that cargo ramp afterwards, and it was ugly.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:10:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Airplanes don't go straight when the tail is missing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vb7IKhVKu4Lol thats a horrible comparison. The B-2 is fly by wire and cant perform without functioning flight computers. Especially if theres an issue with the air data probes (which caused one to crash). The Boeing 737 NG is an old fashioned stick and rudder aircraft with no fly-by wire. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2117/9D6DA221-417F-4ABC-94BA-4B073E69494A_jpe-2321324.JPG Yup, I thought about that one. They got lucky and were "somewhat" able control the aircraft with gear config and some other tricks. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:11:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are free Taiwanese Chinese not Red Commie Chinese... BTW I was on that cargo ramp afterwards, and it was ugly. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432675/IMG_3002_jpeg-2321333.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are free Taiwanese Chinese not Red Commie Chinese... BTW I was on that cargo ramp afterwards, and it was ugly. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432675/IMG_3002_jpeg-2321333.JPG Wow, it looks like the engine didn't even lose a turbine blade. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:15:38 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:18:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, it looks like the engine didn't even lose a turbine blade. Hard to tell from these pictures as this is a week afterwards. The cowlings look intact, but I am sure that there were pieces strewn all over the place... |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:20:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Netflix ? where ? Netflix. Its called Downfall. https://www.netflix.com/search?q=downfall&jbv=81272421 |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:24:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard to tell from these pictures as this is a week afterwards. The cowlings look intact, but I am sure that there were pieces strewn all over the place... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wow, it looks like the engine didn't even lose a turbine blade. Hard to tell from these pictures as this is a week afterwards. The cowlings look intact, but I am sure that there were pieces strewn all over the place...  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:38:46 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:43:06 PM EDT
[#35]
The guy saying that "once you are whatever degrees nose down you can't recover the aircraft" is wrong.
There is video of guys inadvertently spinning a 717 on You Tube during stall testing. Recovery from a spin involves stopping the spin and pushing the nose down to get flying again then pulling out of the dive. They overspeed the aircraft pretty substantially but pulled it off. There are ways to keep the airplane slow. RE: this accident - airplanes want to fly. I am pretty sure that a straight down dive would have to be intentional if all the control surfaces are intact and working as intended and weight/balance is within limits. If this was done to combat an on-board hijacking..........what are the chances that such a domestically militant country would suffer a legit domestic terrorist attack, especially immediately after siding with Russia against Ukraine, the US, and the international community at large? That's crazy conspiracy theorist shit. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:46:19 PM EDT
[#36]
737-800, b-1791, Built 2015
So relatively new as passenger planes go. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:54:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah but odds of dieing in any plane crash are only 1 in 10k. And that’s not terrible but it’s definitely not great at all. Dieing by dog attack is 1 in 70k but I guarantee there are probably more people here afraid of dogs then airplanes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: JFC, some of you guys... The odds of being in a fatal crash on a 737 are approximately 1 in 10 million for any given flight (give or take, depends on the exact model). That's safer than stepping into your shower. Especially that dark old slippery tub in Mom's basement. Yeah but odds of dieing in any plane crash are only 1 in 10k. And that’s not terrible but it’s definitely not great at all. Dieing by dog attack is 1 in 70k but I guarantee there are probably more people here afraid of dogs then airplanes. Sense of control and the resulting consequences are far different in a car crash or falling in a bathtub situation. If you die because you fell out of a bathtub you don't fall 30,000ft out of the tub to your death, lol. If you die in a car crash you're not likely to die as a result of your car accidentally going off the summit of Mt. Everest. When driving you can control your own vehicle, have protective features that actually can save your life, and have good situational awareness. When getting out of a tub you can grab hold on something and it's something pretty normal we do, that 999 times out of 1000 occur without issue. Whereas with an airplane you're strapped in at the mercy of the pilots, and the mystery of whatever is going on in the cabin. Random weather crap or sudden parts failures carry with them the risk of a plane crash; an event in which you have no felt sense of control, don't know when the sudden stp will occur or if suddenly things will get under control and be ok, and in which safety items like belts and oxygen won't do a damned thing if the plane comes down bigly, or breaks up in the air. Couple that with a lot of people having a general fear of heights, and that results in air travel seeming much more risky than taking a bath. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 12:58:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The image shown above looks like a nosedive to the ground, not a mountain strike. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "No word on casualties." It slammed into a mountain. I'll make a prediction. That was an early report before the video came out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:03:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sense of control and the resulting consequences are far different in a car crash or falling in a bathtub situation. If you die because you fell out of a bathtub you don't fall 30,000ft out of the tub to your death, lol. If you die in a car crash you're not likely to die as a result of your car accidentally going off the summit of Mt. Everest. When driving you can control your own vehicle, have protective features that actually can save your life, and have good situational awareness. When getting out of a tub you can grab hold on something and it's something pretty normal we do, that 999 times out of 1000 occur without issue. Whereas with an airplane you're strapped in at the mercy of the pilots, and the mystery of whatever is going on in the cabin. Random weather crap or sudden parts failures carry with them the risk of a plane crash; an event in which you have no felt sense of control, don't know when the sudden stp will occur or if suddenly things will get under control and be ok, and in which safety items like belts and oxygen won't do a damned thing if the plane comes down bigly, or breaks up in the air. Couple that with a lot of people having a general fear of heights, and that results in air travel seeming much more risky than taking a bath. This is why I hate flying and the cause of my anxiety when I do. If i get into a car crash my chance of survival is much greater than plummeting from 30k feet where I have no control of anything. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:15:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy saying that "once you are whatever degrees nose down you can't recover the aircraft" is wrong. There is video of guys inadvertently spinning a 717 on You Tube during stall testing. Recovery from a spin involves stopping the spin and pushing the nose down to get flying again then pulling out of the dive. They overspeed the aircraft pretty substantially but pulled it off. There are ways to keep the airplane slow. RE: this accident - airplanes want to fly. I am pretty sure that a straight down dive would have to be intentional if all the control surfaces are intact and working as intended and weight/balance is within limits. If this was done to combat an on-board hijacking..........what are the chances that such a domestically militant country would suffer a legit domestic terrorist attack, especially immediately after siding with Russia against Ukraine, the US, and the international community at large? That's crazy conspiracy theorist shit. Also Aeroflot Flight 593 initially went into a near vertical dive due to the pilot's son being allowed in the cockpit and accidentally disengaging the autopilot. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:29:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now they are 133 good communists. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:29:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks purposeful Here is My gut feeling - do aircraft crash in a perfectly vertical dive without some "assistance"? |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:36:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now they are 133 good communists. Know how I can tell you've never left your mom's basement? The large number of mainland Chinese people I've worked with (in China) over the last 30 years are just like us. They love their family, appreciate their jobs, and tolerate their government. So, don't be that guy. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:38:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why I hate flying and the cause of my anxiety when I do. If i get into a car crash my chance of survival is much greater than plummeting from 30k feet where I have no control of anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sense of control and the resulting consequences are far different in a car crash or falling in a bathtub situation. If you die because you fell out of a bathtub you don't fall 30,000ft out of the tub to your death, lol. If you die in a car crash you're not likely to die as a result of your car accidentally going off the summit of Mt. Everest. When driving you can control your own vehicle, have protective features that actually can save your life, and have good situational awareness. When getting out of a tub you can grab hold on something and it's something pretty normal we do, that 999 times out of 1000 occur without issue. Whereas with an airplane you're strapped in at the mercy of the pilots, and the mystery of whatever is going on in the cabin. Random weather crap or sudden parts failures carry with them the risk of a plane crash; an event in which you have no felt sense of control, don't know when the sudden stp will occur or if suddenly things will get under control and be ok, and in which safety items like belts and oxygen won't do a damned thing if the plane comes down bigly, or breaks up in the air. Couple that with a lot of people having a general fear of heights, and that results in air travel seeming much more risky than taking a bath. This is why I hate flying and the cause of my anxiety when I do. If i get into a car crash my chance of survival is much greater than plummeting from 30k feet where I have no control of anything. Even if you are involved in a plane crash, you're actually likely to survive. Obviously not this one, but statistically, you're more likely to live than die. It really is just a control issue. People like to believe they're in control. Most of the times they are not. Being in an airplane just makes it obvious. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:46:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A civilian jet went down with all hands and this is the first thing that came to your mind? Real classy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now they are 133 good communists. I did have a chuckle but felt bad afterwards. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:49:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Know how I can tell you've never left your mom's basement? The large number of mainland Chinese people I've worked with (in China) over the last 30 years are just like us. They love their family, appreciate their jobs, and tolerate their government. So, don't be that guy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now they are 133 good communists. Know how I can tell you've never left your mom's basement? The large number of mainland Chinese people I've worked with (in China) over the last 30 years are just like us. They love their family, appreciate their jobs, and tolerate their government. So, don't be that guy. The other 364 days of the year, GD is hating on China and Chinese as much as possible. I'm surprised he was the first and last to say it based on the normal sentiment here. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:56:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While true, that NF doc on the Max, DKs one into thinking they fully understand the AOA SPOF MCAS issue with the ailerons. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:59:33 PM EDT
[#48]
I wonder if a massive failure from a damaged compartment section could have occurred, along the lines of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123 |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 2:00:15 PM EDT
[#49]
My sole experience flying is from simulators, but I assumed that the tail was for rudder control, left and right controls. Elevator controls should have been fine, as well as aileron controls.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 2:02:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ???? It's says this planes first flight was in 2015. According to Wiki, the NGs were in production through 2019. Interesting. I stand corrected. I work on the BSI interior (the generation after NG) and that went into production 10+ years ago. I had assumed they phased out the NG production at that time. |
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