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Posted: 5/8/2023 11:49:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hate to break it to you but Nazi loving Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! Gonna just go ahead and quote this for the next time op denies regurgitating russian talking points. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 11:56:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hate to break it to you but Nazi loving Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! "Nazi loving Zelensky" Your slip is showing. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 11:57:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those damned Nazi loving jews. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Still think this is all part of Putin's master plan? 5d Chess?" - Yeah, I've said no such thing but ok!  "Suiciding waves of Russian soldiers for little gain while the entire line is stagnate for one town doesn't seem like a winning strategy" - And yet Zelensky keeps whining for more monies and resources to fight a "serious Russian threat"!  Russia whines about western aid and how the victims are fighting back against genocide. Zelenskyy pleads for aid so his people can survive. There is a difference. How did the Russian winter offensive turn out? Hate to break it to you but Nazi loving Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! Those damned Nazi loving jews. No, you're right, I misspoke when I used the term "Nazi loving" . What was the Ukraine's Nazi issue again, refresh my memory I remember the media all complaining about it prior to the war. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:10:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, you're right, I misspoke when I used the term "Nazi loving" . What was the Ukraine's Nazi issue again, refresh my memory I remember the media all complaining about it prior to the war. An org had some connections in the past. It was then brough into the fold and those were purged. "Denazification" is laughable. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:43:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An org had some connections in the past. It was then brough into the fold and those were purged. "Denazification" is laughable. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:45:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Didn't see it mentioned, and there's more updates in Bakhmut than I can type out, but Prigozhin has submitted official documentation to hand over Wagner positions to Kadyrov and his Chechen troops (due to the lack of ammo)
Kadyrov has asked (I think the Russian Defense ministry) for approval to pull their troops from their existing locations and move them to Bakhmut. They state there is around 2 kilometers of territory left to take control. There is a ton of grandstanding and posturing with Wagner, so you can't take ANY of this stuff you are hearing at face value, Prigozhin actually has to play What many don't realize is that there are actually dozens of PMC's owned by very high ranking officials in the Russian Government. For example Gazprom (the giant Russian gas company) actually has their own PMC called "Patriot". All of these PMC's are intertwined with the Russian government and they are all fighting for resources/notoriety. I think there is a real concern in the Russian government that Wagner is becoming too big and too much of a threat, so in that context starving them of ammo before they take a win in Bakhmut makes a lot of sense.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:46:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An org had some connections in the past. It was then brough into the fold and those were purged. "Denazification" is laughable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, you're right, I misspoke when I used the term "Nazi loving" . What was the Ukraine's Nazi issue again, refresh my memory I remember the media all complaining about it prior to the war. An org had some connections in the past. It was then brough into the fold and those were purged. "Denazification" is laughable. I remember seeing photos of hundreds of marching Ukrainian Nazis in uniform, were they in Zelensky's military and was that the issue? If so, were they later purged or are they still fighting for Zelensky? |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:48:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hate to break it to you but Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! See, it is stuff like this that makes you (again) look like you are trolling. Putin is at this point clearly and unambiguously the dictator of a kleptocratic state that is riddled with corruption (which is obviously part of the reason that the Russian military has experienced unexpected difficulties). There is no doubt that he is a thief, along with his oligarch buddies and formed KGB buddies. Similarly, the label of "thug" seems appropriate, given that he has a proven history of having political opponents killed or imprisoned, and also has a history of attacking neighboring countries. Ukraine has historically also had a long history of corruption, as a result of having been under the Russian thumb, or in the Russian orbit, for so many years. No doubt there is tons of corruption, and I am sure some of it is deep and insidious. However, it is a fact that Zelensky was elected as an outsider with a goal of fighting and eliminating corruption in Ukraine. That was virtually his entire campaign - wanting to fight corruption. Does he have a long way to go? Absolutely - but calling him a "thief" and trying to equate a democratically elected anti-corruption president with a dictator in charge of a super-corrupt nation is an odd claim to make, IMO. I don't even understand how you are trying to equate Zelensky with being a "thug" like Putin. Has he has political opponents killed? Has he attacked other nations? Obviously Zelensky is not perfect, but to equate him with Putin seems a bit over the top. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:51:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See, it is stuff like this that makes you (again) look like you are trolling. If he continuously looks like he is trolling, he is trolling. It's obnoxious and kinda sad at the same time. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:53:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See, it is stuff like this that makes you (again) look like you are trolling. Putin is at this point clearly and unambiguously the dictator of a kleptocratic state that is riddled with corruption (which is obviously part of the reason that the Russian military has experienced unexpected difficulties). There is no doubt that he is a thief, along with his oligarch buddies and formed KGB buddies. Similarly, the label of "thug" seems appropriate, given that he has a proven history of having political opponents killed or imprisoned, and also has a history of attacking neighboring countries. Ukraine has historically also had a long history of corruption, as a result of having been under the Russian thumb, or in the Russian orbit, for so many years. No doubt there is tons of corruption, and I am sure some of it is deep and insidious. However, it is a fact that Zelensky was elected as an outsider with a goal of fighting and eliminating corruption in Ukraine. That was virtually his entire campaign - wanting to fight corruption. Does he have a long way to go? Absolutely - but calling him a "thief" and trying to equate a democratically elected anti-corruption president with a dictator in charge of a super-corrupt nation is an odd claim to make, IMO. I don't even understand how you are trying to equate Zelensky with being a "thug" like Putin. Has he has political opponents killed? Has he attacked other nations? Obviously Zelensky is not perfect, but to equate him with Putin seems a bit over the top. You were FAR more "kind & diplomatic" than I would have been in expressing those thoughts & words regarding O.P. and his wild claims. That the Russians Blitzkrieg violent invasion into Ukraine was somehow wholly justified to "De-Nazi-fy" Ukraine from it's Jewish President ...  Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:53:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember seeing photos of hundreds of marching Ukrainian Nazis in uniform, were they in Zelensky's military and was that the issue? If so, were they later purged or are they still fighting for Zelensky? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No, you're right, I misspoke when I used the term "Nazi loving" . What was the Ukraine's Nazi issue again, refresh my memory I remember the media all complaining about it prior to the war. An org had some connections in the past. It was then brough into the fold and those were purged. "Denazification" is laughable. I remember seeing photos of hundreds of marching Ukrainian Nazis in uniform, were they in Zelensky's military and was that the issue? If so, were they later purged or are they still fighting for Zelensky? I'm sure you do. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 12:57:27 PM EDT
[#12]
RU propaganda is a hell of a drug.
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:11:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See, it is stuff like this that makes you (again) look like you are trolling. Putin is at this point clearly and unambiguously the dictator of a kleptocratic state that is riddled with corruption (which is obviously part of the reason that the Russian military has experienced unexpected difficulties). There is no doubt that he is a thief, along with his oligarch buddies and formed KGB buddies. Similarly, the label of "thug" seems appropriate, given that he has a proven history of having political opponents killed or imprisoned, and also has a history of attacking neighboring countries. Ukraine has historically also had a long history of corruption, as a result of having been under the Russian thumb, or in the Russian orbit, for so many years. No doubt there is tons of corruption, and I am sure some of it is deep and insidious. However, it is a fact that Zelensky was elected as an outsider with a goal of fighting and eliminating corruption in Ukraine. That was virtually his entire campaign - wanting to fight corruption. Does he have a long way to go? Absolutely - but calling him a "thief" and trying to equate a democratically elected anti-corruption president with a dictator in charge of a super-corrupt nation is an odd claim to make, IMO. I don't even understand how you are trying to equate Zelensky with being a "thug" like Putin. Has he has political opponents killed? Has he attacked other nations? Obviously Zelensky is not perfect, but to equate him with Putin seems a bit over the top. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hate to break it to you but Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! See, it is stuff like this that makes you (again) look like you are trolling. Putin is at this point clearly and unambiguously the dictator of a kleptocratic state that is riddled with corruption (which is obviously part of the reason that the Russian military has experienced unexpected difficulties). There is no doubt that he is a thief, along with his oligarch buddies and formed KGB buddies. Similarly, the label of "thug" seems appropriate, given that he has a proven history of having political opponents killed or imprisoned, and also has a history of attacking neighboring countries. Ukraine has historically also had a long history of corruption, as a result of having been under the Russian thumb, or in the Russian orbit, for so many years. No doubt there is tons of corruption, and I am sure some of it is deep and insidious. However, it is a fact that Zelensky was elected as an outsider with a goal of fighting and eliminating corruption in Ukraine. That was virtually his entire campaign - wanting to fight corruption. Does he have a long way to go? Absolutely - but calling him a "thief" and trying to equate a democratically elected anti-corruption president with a dictator in charge of a super-corrupt nation is an odd claim to make, IMO. I don't even understand how you are trying to equate Zelensky with being a "thug" like Putin. Has he has political opponents killed? Has he attacked other nations? Obviously Zelensky is not perfect, but to equate him with Putin seems a bit over the top. That's the 2nd time you called me a troll DK, once for not knowing who someone was and now for stating my actual opinion based on what I believe. That's not trolling just because you disagree with it! I get it, you're pro-Ukraine and your opinions are different from mine but you're also a mod and when you keep calling me a troll in that capacity you create unnecessary turmoil within the thread. I ask that you please be a little more professional. If you disagree that's fine, try to change my mind through discussion. Hell prove me wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. If you choose to be snarky in your retorts, that's cool to, I enjoy the banter. But I ask that you please stop creating unnecessary drama just because something rubbed you the wrong way. I've always treated you with respect and I ask you do the same. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:18:46 PM EDT
[#14]
The act of trolling is disrespectful. That you continuously gleefully engage in the act while feigning otherwise is what he and everyone else is pointing out to you.
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:28:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the 2nd time you called me a troll DK, once for not knowing who someone was and now for stating my actual opinion based on what I believe. That's not trolling just because you disagree with it! I get it, you're pro-Ukraine and your opinions are different from mine but you're also a mod and when you keep calling me a troll in that capacity you create necessary turmoil within the thread. I ask that you please be a little more professional. If you disagree that's fine, try to change my mind through discussion. Hell prove me wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. If you choose to be snarky in your retorts, that's cool to, I enjoy the banter. But I ask that you please stop creating unnecessary drama just because something rubbed you the wrong way. I've always treated you with respect and I ask you do the same. If your position is Zelensky and Putin are on an equal level, I don't see an option outside one of those two. I'm indifferent on Zelensky as my concern is more for the people of Ukraine, but Putin is pure evil commie filth. There is no comparison between the two. Some of ARF is infected badly with ZDS for no reason other than being contrarian. Same way the left was infected with TDS. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:39:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Remember when Putin stoled a superbowl ring from a US citizen on US soil? Pepperidge Farms does.
Link. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:44:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember when Putin stoled a superbowl ring from a US citizen on US soil? Pepperidge Farms does. Link. I remember when he had a journalist in the UK murdered by polonium poisoning. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:46:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember when he had a journalist in the UK murdered by polonium poisoning. He's done that a few times, hasnt he? I can only find the one guy tho. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:55:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Amazing how many building are still standing honestly.
Soviet Concrete and Rebar construction of damn near every apartment block and many of the smaller buildings make them basically bunkers. The streets are just nothing but twisted metal, concrete blocks, shrapnel, broken glass, mud, splintered trees, corpses, and destroyed vehicles. Damn place looks like the Apocalypse. Was watching a video on the battle and apparently Wagner took 130 meters of ground over the course of a week that cost them about one KIA per meter, that's insane. Onslaught doesn't even begin to describe it, the Wagner group are damn determined that is for sure. People are saying that the pace of Wagner demonstrates their incompetence, but keep in mind that Fallujah took a month and a half to take, was brutal fighting, and the USMC wasn't up against what the Russians are in Bakhmut in terms of opposition. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 1:58:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's done that a few times, hasnt he? I can only find the one guy tho. Boris Nemtsov was the more recent one. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:10:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amazing how many building are still standing honestly. Soviet Concrete and Rebar construction of damn near every apartment block and many of the smaller buildings make them basically bunkers. The streets are just nothing but twisted metal, concrete blocks, shrapnel, broken glass, mud, splintered trees, corpses, and destroyed vehicles. Damn place looks like the Apocalypse. Was watching a video on the battle and apparently Wagner took 130 meters of ground over the course of a week that cost them about one KIA per meter, that's insane. Onslaught doesn't even begin to describe it, the Wagner group are damn determined that is for sure. People are saying that the pace of Wagner demonstrates their incompetence, but keep in mind that Fallujah took a month and a half to take, was brutal fighting, and the USMC wasn't up against what the Russians are in Bakhmut in terms of opposition. Fallujah would be a great comparison except the Iraqi insurgents weren't holding up US forces from bypassing the city and capturing the rest of Iraq like the Ukrainians are doing with Russia. Russia isn't foolishly choosing to slog through Bakhmut in lieu of bypassing it and continuing on to further objectives. Russia literally doesn't have the strength in place to continue on to capture further objectives. They're slogging through Bakhmut because its the only objective within their reach. They tried to attack elsewhere (Vuhledar) and failed so hard that everyone else was scratching their heads for weeks trying to figure out if that was the promised "grand winter offensive." |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:18:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fallujah would be a great comparison except the Iraqi insurgents weren't holding up US forces from bypassing the city and capturing the rest of Iraq like the Ukrainians are doing with Russia. Russia isn't foolishly choosing to slog through Bakhmut in lieu of bypassing it and continuing on to further objectives. Russia literally doesn't have the strength in place to continue on to capture further objectives. They're slogging through Bakhmut because its the only objective within their reach. They tried to attack elsewhere (Vuhledar) and failed so hard that everyone else was scratching their heads for weeks trying to figure out if that was the promised "grand winter offensive." Well, without air dominance it will be difficult for either side to launch any deep armor thrusts. Any movement they make requires them shoring up their flanks through ground forces across a very long FLOT, which in turn means protecting multiple MSRs requiring a shit ton of men, materials, and coordination that would be difficult for any nation. It's why I don't think Ukraine is going to be able to take much in their planned summer offensive, because they never received any significant air power to gain air supremacy. Without being able to effectively leverage air power this conflict is going to continue to be a slow and steady meat grinder, which might be what NATO wants honestly to keep decimating the Russians. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:19:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember seeing photos of hundreds of marching Ukrainian Nazis in uniform, were they in Zelensky's military and was that the issue? If so, were they later purged or are they still fighting for Zelensky? Those were New Jersey State Police.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:20:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, you're right, I misspoke when I used the term "Nazi loving" . What was the Ukraine's Nazi issue again, refresh my memory I remember the media all complaining about it prior to the war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Still think this is all part of Putin's master plan? 5d Chess?" - Yeah, I've said no such thing but ok! "Suiciding waves of Russian soldiers for little gain while the entire line is stagnate for one town doesn't seem like a winning strategy" - And yet Zelensky keeps whining for more monies and resources to fight a "serious Russian threat"! Russia whines about western aid and how the victims are fighting back against genocide. Zelenskyy pleads for aid so his people can survive. There is a difference. How did the Russian winter offensive turn out? Hate to break it to you but Nazi loving Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! Those damned Nazi loving jews. No, you're right, I misspoke when I used the term "Nazi loving" . What was the Ukraine's Nazi issue again, refresh my memory I remember the media all complaining about it prior to the war. You labeled him "Nazi loving," but you can't remember why it occurred to you to use that phrase? That seems less than honest. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:24:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the 2nd time you called me a troll DK, once for not knowing who someone was and now for stating my actual opinion based on what I believe. That's not trolling just because you disagree with it! I get it, you're pro-Ukraine and your opinions are different from mine but you're also a mod and when you keep calling me a troll in that capacity you create necessary turmoil within the thread. I ask that you please be a little more professional. If you disagree that's fine, try to change my mind through discussion. Hell prove me wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. If you choose to be snarky in your retorts, that's cool to, I enjoy the banter. But I ask that you please stop creating unnecessary drama just because something rubbed you the wrong way. I've always treated you with respect and I ask you do the same. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hate to break it to you but Zelensky is a thief and a thug just like Putin! See, it is stuff like this that makes you (again) look like you are trolling. Putin is at this point clearly and unambiguously the dictator of a kleptocratic state that is riddled with corruption (which is obviously part of the reason that the Russian military has experienced unexpected difficulties). There is no doubt that he is a thief, along with his oligarch buddies and formed KGB buddies. Similarly, the label of "thug" seems appropriate, given that he has a proven history of having political opponents killed or imprisoned, and also has a history of attacking neighboring countries. Ukraine has historically also had a long history of corruption, as a result of having been under the Russian thumb, or in the Russian orbit, for so many years. No doubt there is tons of corruption, and I am sure some of it is deep and insidious. However, it is a fact that Zelensky was elected as an outsider with a goal of fighting and eliminating corruption in Ukraine. That was virtually his entire campaign - wanting to fight corruption. Does he have a long way to go? Absolutely - but calling him a "thief" and trying to equate a democratically elected anti-corruption president with a dictator in charge of a super-corrupt nation is an odd claim to make, IMO. I don't even understand how you are trying to equate Zelensky with being a "thug" like Putin. Has he has political opponents killed? Has he attacked other nations? Obviously Zelensky is not perfect, but to equate him with Putin seems a bit over the top. That's the 2nd time you called me a troll DK, once for not knowing who someone was and now for stating my actual opinion based on what I believe. That's not trolling just because you disagree with it! I get it, you're pro-Ukraine and your opinions are different from mine but you're also a mod and when you keep calling me a troll in that capacity you create necessary turmoil within the thread. I ask that you please be a little more professional. If you disagree that's fine, try to change my mind through discussion. Hell prove me wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. If you choose to be snarky in your retorts, that's cool to, I enjoy the banter. But I ask that you please stop creating unnecessary drama just because something rubbed you the wrong way. I've always treated you with respect and I ask you do the same. Lol. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:28:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, without air dominance it will be difficult for either side to launch any deep armor thrusts. Any movement they make requires them shoring up their flanks through ground forces across a very long FLOT, which in turn means protecting multiple MSRs requiring a shit ton of men, materials, and coordination that would be difficult for any nation. It's why I don't think Ukraine is going to be able to take much in their planned summer offensive, because they never received any significant air power to gain air supremacy. Without being able to effectively leverage air power this conflict is going to continue to be a slow and steady meat grinder, which might be what NATO wants honestly to keep decimating the Russians. I think if they have enough mobile strength to put enough pressure on too many places at once for Russia to adequately respond to quickly, they'll make good ground somewhere. Kind of what happened in Kharkiv oblast. My bet is they're going to try for Melitopol with an eye toward isolating Crimea. I don't think their next offensive is going to end the war, tho. Not while Russia's standing minimum for negotiation is "we keep everything we illegally annexed." |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:29:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the 2nd time you called me a troll DK, once for not knowing who someone was and now for stating my actual opinion based on what I believe. That's not trolling just because you disagree with it! I get it, you're pro-Ukraine and your opinions are different from mine but you're also a mod and when you keep calling me a troll in that capacity you create necessary turmoil within the thread. I ask that you please be a little more professional. If you disagree that's fine, try to change my mind through discussion. Hell prove me wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. If you choose to be snarky in your retorts, that's cool to, I enjoy the banter. But I ask that you please stop creating unnecessary drama just because something rubbed you the wrong way. I've always treated you with respect and I ask you do the same. You want real discussion, put in the effort on your half. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:39:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's done that a few times, hasnt he? I can only find the one guy tho. Maybe its the search term you're using, "novichok" would fetch a few more results. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:40:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amazing how many building are still standing honestly. Soviet Concrete and Rebar construction of damn near every apartment block and many of the smaller buildings make them basically bunkers. The streets are just nothing but twisted metal, concrete blocks, shrapnel, broken glass, mud, splintered trees, corpses, and destroyed vehicles. Damn place looks like the Apocalypse. Was watching a video on the battle and apparently Wagner took 130 meters of ground over the course of a week that cost them about one KIA per meter, that's insane. Onslaught doesn't even begin to describe it, the Wagner group are damn determined that is for sure. People are saying that the pace of Wagner demonstrates their incompetence, but keep in mind that Fallujah took a month and a half to take, was brutal fighting, and the USMC wasn't up against what the Russians are in Bakhmut in terms of opposition. @KaerMorhenResident I have to ask, do you watch CivDiv? The last video they put out started off with a very similar description of both the soviet buildings as well as the shrapnel. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:42:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think if they have enough mobile strength to put enough pressure on too many places at once for Russia to adequately respond to quickly, they'll make good ground somewhere. Kind of what happened in Kharkiv oblast. My bet is they're going to try for Melitopol with an eye toward isolating Crimea. I don't think their next offensive is going to end the war, tho. Not while Russia's standing minimum for negotiation is "we keep everything we illegally annexed." The problem is that thrust toward Melitopol is literally the only geographical location where they can feasible go without significant air support and I don't think the shaping of that battlefield has been enough to help them and on top of everything the Russians are pretty sure that is going to be their move as well so they're going to be as ready as the Russians can be for them. It's going to make for some fierce and costly fighting. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:53:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is that thrust toward Melitopol is literally the only geographical location where they can feasible go without significant air support and I don't think the shaping of that battlefield has been enough to help them and on top of everything the Russians are pretty sure that is going to be their move as well so they're going to be as ready as the Russians can be for them. It's going to make for some fierce and costly fighting. Russians have been digging in around Zaporizhzhia for some time now, I've seen satellite imagery of the trench systems and even hear the Nuclear plant has been fortified, they've also started evacuations of their civilian population. It's also worth mentioning that attacking forces generally take a much higher casualty rate than the defenders. If there isn't some special sauce with the new Western equipment platforms and fresh recruits in the mix then I think you could see some disappointment in the Spring Counteroffensive. The other idea I've seen floated, which IDK how much credence there is, is that Ukraine attacks in the North East. They target less fortified areas, take land, and then later use that land as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Again, doesn't seem as likely. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:00:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians have been digging in around Zaporizhzhia for some time now, I've seen satellite imagery of the trench systems and even hear the Nuclear plant has been fortified, they've also started evacuations of their civilian population. It's also worth mentioning that attacking forces generally take a much higher casualty rate than the defenders. If there isn't some special sauce with the new Western equipment platforms and fresh recruits in the mix then I think you could see some disappointment in the Spring Counteroffensive. The other idea I've seen floated, which IDK how much credence there is, is that Ukraine attacks in the North East. They target less fortified areas, take land, and then later use that land as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Again, doesn't seem as likely. I can totally see them exploiting a weak area in the defenses even if it's not in the most important areas for them. They want to go back to 2013 borders so anything that furthers that is inline with their strategic goals. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:10:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians have been digging in around Zaporizhzhia for some time now, I've seen satellite imagery of the trench systems and even hear the Nuclear plant has been fortified, they've also started evacuations of their civilian population. It's also worth mentioning that attacking forces generally take a much higher casualty rate than the defenders. If there isn't some special sauce with the new Western equipment platforms and fresh recruits in the mix then I think you could see some disappointment in the Spring Counteroffensive. The other idea I've seen floated, which IDK how much credence there is, is that Ukraine attacks in the North East. They target less fortified areas, take land, and then later use that land as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Again, doesn't seem as likely. They're doing alot of "shaping" in crimea, too. Nor is the distance from Kherson to Crimea that much different than the distance from Zap to Melitopol. I don't think its as simple as "there's only one logical place for Ukraine to attack." |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:12:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can totally see them exploiting a weak area in the defenses even if it's not in the most important areas for them. They want to go back to 2013 borders so anything that furthers that is inline with their strategic goals. May be a better strategy overall IMHO, but so much talk around Zaporizhzhia it feels like that's the direction. High level, Ukraine will need something they can present as a win to their international partners. As the years go on by you're going to see more and more hesitancy surrounding providing $$$ and weapon systems. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:16:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're doing alot of "shaping" in crimea, too. Nor is the distance from Kherson to Crimea that much different than the distance from Zap to Melitopol. I don't think its as simple as "there's only one logical place for Ukraine to attack." I didn't say "there's only one logical place for Ukraine to attack" why did you put that in quotes? I have seen though that the overwhelming majority of analysis (from sources on both sides) are pointing to Zaporizhzhia as the target for the Spring Counteroffensive. For what it's worth, the very recent evacuations of civilian personal does reinforce this narrative a bit. We'll see |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:16:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: May be a better strategy overall IMHO, but so much talk around Zaporizhzhia it feels like that's the direction. High level, Ukraine will need something they can present as a win to their international partners. As the years go on by you're going to see more and more hesitancy surrounding providing $$$ and weapon systems. Indeed. I've seen a tweet where Ukrainian leadership has worked to temper expectations, but if they stay relatively static through the summer then it's going to be tough to keep the help coming. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:17:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @KaerMorhenResident I have to ask, do you watch CivDiv? The last video they put out started off with a very similar description of both the soviet buildings as well as the shrapnel. Yup, have been watching CivDiv's videos and pretty much everything else I can find online. Donbas looks like the surface of the moon mixed with a junkyard. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:19:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indeed. I've seen a tweet where Ukrainian leadership has worked to temper expectations, but if they stay relatively static through the summer then it's going to be tough to keep the help coming. I know the term 4D chess is a huge joke synonymous with failed presidential campaigns  however there's a metric shit ton of that going on in war reporting.It's all open to interpretation, but I also saw the same quote from the Ukranians in that it could be 10km, or it could be 100km, or 200km. I think whatever happens you're going to see lots of spin |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:21:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, have been watching CivDiv's videos and pretty much everything else I can find online. Donbas looks like the surface of the moon mixed with a junkyard. Knew that looked familiar  I took note of that as well! Sucked seeing those guys struggle with their wounded buddy carrying him on that stupid quilt. I just kept thinking to myself if they had something with actual handles that wouldn't have been half as rough 
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:21:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians have been digging in around Zaporizhzhia for some time now, I've seen satellite imagery of the trench systems and even hear the Nuclear plant has been fortified, they've also started evacuations of their civilian population. It's also worth mentioning that attacking forces generally take a much higher casualty rate than the defenders. If there isn't some special sauce with the new Western equipment platforms and fresh recruits in the mix then I think you could see some disappointment in the Spring Counteroffensive. The other idea I've seen floated, which IDK how much credence there is, is that Ukraine attacks in the North East. They target less fortified areas, take land, and then later use that land as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Again, doesn't seem as likely. Yeah, it's not going to be this massive rush to the recapture all lost territory that everyone thinks it's going to be. If the offensive goes bad though, I think Ukraine has demonstrated that it can still stay in the fight and hold off the Russians. I think no matter what Ukraine will hold out so that in 2024 they can get some Western air power and then maybe we'll see things start to change IF the Russians can't get their act together in the meantime. This is going to end in negotiated settlement. Neither side will be able to secure unconditional surrender from the other. Either way, neither side will be happy and this will be a hot spot for years to come. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:30:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, without air dominance it will be difficult for either side to launch any deep armor thrusts. Any movement they make requires them shoring up their flanks through ground forces across a very long FLOT, which in turn means protecting multiple MSRs requiring a shit ton of men, materials, and coordination that would be difficult for any nation. It's why I don't think Ukraine is going to be able to take much in their planned summer offensive, because they never received any significant air power to gain air supremacy. Without being able to effectively leverage air power this conflict is going to continue to be a slow and steady meat grinder, which might be what NATO wants honestly to keep decimating the Russians. Air power is dramatically overrated. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:34:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, it's not going to be this massive rush to the recapture all lost territory that everyone thinks it's going to be. If the offensive goes bad though, I think Ukraine has demonstrated that it can still stay in the fight and hold off the Russians. I think no matter what Ukraine will hold out so that in 2024 they can get some Western air power and then maybe we'll see things start to change IF the Russians can't get their act together in the meantime. This is going to end in negotiated settlement. Neither side will be able to secure unconditional surrender from the other. Either way, neither side will be happy and this will be a hot spot for years to come. I agree and as crazy as the world is China may even play a major role as a broker. My real concern is that we end up with another Minsk type agreement in that both sides patchwork something together which resembles a ceasefire and then they end up with another 5 years of trench warfare followed by escalation (rinse and repeat) |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:47:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He said "look like". He didn't call you a troll. The option of highly ignorant is also available. If your position is Zelensky and Putin are on an equal level, I don't see an option outside one of those two. I'm indifferent on Zelensky as my concern is more for the people of Ukraine, but Putin is pure evil commie filth. There is no comparison between the two. Some of ARF is infected badly with ZDS for no reason other than being contrarian. Same way the left was infected with TDS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's the 2nd time you called me a troll DK, once for not knowing who someone was and now for stating my actual opinion based on what I believe. That's not trolling just because you disagree with it! I get it, you're pro-Ukraine and your opinions are different from mine but you're also a mod and when you keep calling me a troll in that capacity you create necessary turmoil within the thread. I ask that you please be a little more professional. If you disagree that's fine, try to change my mind through discussion. Hell prove me wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. If you choose to be snarky in your retorts, that's cool to, I enjoy the banter. But I ask that you please stop creating unnecessary drama just because something rubbed you the wrong way. I've always treated you with respect and I ask you do the same. If your position is Zelensky and Putin are on an equal level, I don't see an option outside one of those two. I'm indifferent on Zelensky as my concern is more for the people of Ukraine, but Putin is pure evil commie filth. There is no comparison between the two. Some of ARF is infected badly with ZDS for no reason other than being contrarian. Same way the left was infected with TDS. "He said "look like". He didn't call you a troll." - Oh, ok, that's totally different! I never said Putin and Zelensky were identical, I only pointed out that they share similar negative traits. Zelensky is a thief and thug and to imply he's virtuous (as the poster did) is simply not true! That's not to say Putin was right to invade Ukraine, it just means the US is foolish to keep sending him tax payer monies! |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:50:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't say "there's only one logical place for Ukraine to attack" why did you put that in quotes? I have seen though that the overwhelming majority of analysis (from sources on both sides) are pointing to Zaporizhzhia as the target for the Spring Counteroffensive. For what it's worth, the very recent evacuations of civilian personal does reinforce this narrative a bit. We'll see I know you didn't. I was addressing the other guy's point about there only being a single logical vector. The places they've been "shaping" would have an effect on the logistics of the defense of either melitopol or the approach to crimea itself. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:52:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember seeing photos of hundreds of marching Ukrainian Nazis in uniform, were they in Zelensky's military and was that the issue? If so, were they later purged or are they still fighting for Zelensky? My understanding is that most of the nazis were destroyed in Mariopol. They were Ukraine's best troops at the time, so it was somewhat understandable to utilize them. What I never understood was letting them kill Ukrainian citizens before the invasion kicked off. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:55:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The act of trolling is disrespectful. That you continuously gleefully engage in the act while feigning otherwise is what he and everyone else is pointing out to you. I'm not trolling, "it just looks like" I am because we see things differently. 
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Posted: 5/8/2023 3:55:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't even understand how you are trying to equate Zelensky with being a "thug" like Putin. Has he has political opponents killed? Has he attacked other nations? Obviously Zelensky is not perfect, but to equate him with Putin seems a bit over the top. Zelensky is no angel and no friend of human rights or democracy. Not really even a friend of the US or Ukraine. Not sure how to compare him to Putin. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zelensky is no angel and no friend of human rights or democracy. Not really even a friend of the US or Ukraine. Not sure how to compare him to Putin. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 4:02:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not trolling, "it just looks like" I am because we see things differently. It looks like you are because you openly spout claims a toddler would know are false. |
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Posted: 5/8/2023 4:05:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not trolling, "it just looks like" I am because we see things differently. Any difference of opinion is trolling or Russian propaganda to the uke bros and bahkmut bobs of arfcom. Different words, same ad hominem fallacy, the goal of which is to avoid actual discussion. |
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