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Posted: 5/11/2023 10:57:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, you're doing just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What news, that Zelensky is unable to launch a counter-offensive as planned? What would you like me to say about it? lol, you're doing just fine. 
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Posted: 5/11/2023 11:00:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More bullshit, not that they aren’t fighting back, but that they are going to overtake Russia in Bahkmut. #PostThatWon'tAgeWell #PTWAW |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 11:21:34 PM EDT
[#3]
I kind of understand, when fiscal conservatives might bitch about the money being spent in Ukraine, but what’s with all the actual Russian propaganda ministers in this thread?
There’s at least three In the last couple pages. Why would anyone simp for Russia? Are they getting paid? Can anyone provide a single verifiable reason someone would do that? |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 11:30:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kind of understand, when fiscal conservatives might bitch about the money being spent in Ukraine, but what’s with all the actual Russian propaganda ministers in this thread? There’s at least three In the last couple pages. Why would anyone simp for Russia? Are they getting paid? Can anyone provide a single verifiable reason someone would do that? Red team/blue team politics exploited by a decade+ of active Russian propaganda efforts. I remember when it was quite fashionable here for people to practically swoon over Putin, the savior of western values. Shirtless Putin memes, Putin shooting at the gun range, etc... "At least he loves his country!" "He's a strong leader!" "I wish he was our President!" I remember when these sentiments were commonly repeated around here. That doesn't happen by accident. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 11:41:29 PM EDT
[#5]
After hearing that "Bakhmut is mostly fallen" since late March, yet it continues to not only hold, but make good Russians by the bushel
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Posted: 5/11/2023 11:46:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After hearing that "Bakhmut is mostly fallen" since late March, yet it continues to not only hold, but make good Russians by the bushel https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/028/007/Screen_Shot_2018-12-31_at_1.19.26_PM.jpg “Sketti lied to me” |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 12:53:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kind of understand, when fiscal conservatives might bitch about the money being spent in Ukraine, but what’s with all the actual Russian propaganda ministers in this thread? There’s at least three In the last couple pages. Why would anyone simp for Russia? Are they getting paid? Can anyone provide a single verifiable reason someone would do that? weak minds fall easily for propaganda, some more easily than others. Its quite sad to see some here actually want to see Ukraine fall. They dont want to help a freedom loving nation on the verge of falling to an evil dictator. the belief that putin is some "world hero" that will save everyone from the "globohomo" has been driven into weak minds. And we see it here on arfcom. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 12:57:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More bullshit, not that they aren’t fighting back, but that they are going to overtake Russia in Bahkmut. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP’s thread is now correct Bakhmut is indeed mostly falling To Ukraine Russian positions south of bakhmut are collapsing https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv3uBDQWcAwHNjn?format=jpg&name=900x900 More bullshit, not that they aren’t fighting back, but that they are going to overtake Russia in Bahkmut. This post is an example of someone being "triggered" by todays awesome news that Ukraine is taking back land in and around Bahkmut. Even in the face of undeniable facts they will say IMPOSSIBLE!! Russia stronker than ever!, etc.. they would like you to believe that Ukraine is only getting "lucky" not the fact that new western trained combined arms battalions using western armor have rotated into the front lines and actually showing great results, and actually destroying the russian 72nd battalion, like what is actually happening. Thats not just "fighting back" in a defensive way, thats offensively ass whiping an entire battalion from 3km of land. but Oh no! that cannot be true at all! russia stronk! Interview of the commander of the unit that did the recent ass-whipping in Bakhmut |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 1:04:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What news, that Zelensky is unable to launch a counter-offensive as planned? What would you like me to say about it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP is notably absent in light of today's news..  What news, that Zelensky is unable to launch a counter-offensive as planned? What would you like me to say about it? and here is another example, when today i made a comment that the OP was noticeably absent since he has always been available to comment and post updates on russias progression in Bakhmut, in which what the thread is about. (not a Ukrainian counter-offensive). and you can see what his response was. "What news, that Zelensky is unable to launch a counter-offensive as planned? What would you like me to say about it?" when he knew that the major news of the day was Ukraines offensive in Bakhmut is doing very well as it had been posted in this thread many times today before he posted that response...and the much minor news of the day came out about Zelensky saying the offensive is a ways off but he did not say "they cannot launch it as planned"... not one person has said that, He stated that yes they could launch it right now but would lose more men than necessary, and wants to get the rest of the promised armor is in hand. which is what any smart tactical leader would do. But instead OP has to make up lies to counter any good news about Ukraine doing good in Bakhmut. To prove OP's statement as a lie, here is his Interview. Zelenskys interview President Volodymyr Zelensky, in an exclusive interview with BBC, has stated that Ukraine requires more time to launch a much-anticipated counteroffensive against Russian forces as its military awaits the delivery of promised military aid. Speaking from his headquarters in Kyiv, Zelensky stated that combat brigades, which were trained by NATO countries, were “prepared” for the counteroffensive. However, he acknowledged that there were still gaps in the army’s capabilities, such as the need for armored vehicles, which were “being delivered in stages.” “When and where the Ukrainian push, supported by Western-supplied weapons and equipment, will happen is a secret" At no time in the past has anyone from Ukraine stated the counter-offensive was to start on a certain date, and to say that they cannot as "planned" or that they are "unable" is a lie as No-one knows what when and where it will happen. So OP stop lying, its not a good look for you. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:25:18 AM EDT
[#10]
LOL today is starting out great for Ukraine again! More Russian retreats from Bakhmut!
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:17:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Dude no one ever believes a damn thing you say...  Your the king of copium I am not emotionally invested in the outcome. The fact is that Ukraine will not receive western support indefinitely, and an offensive delay is likely to accelerate that outcome. Russia is ramping up war productions and is able to sustain fighting long after western support dries up. One battle doesn’t make a war, let’s see how it plays out. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:18:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do Russians there disagree with your statement? Just like how you were saying t55s weren’t going to be used in combat but here they are now  No, I said that they weren’t in theater and I was correct. You kept saying that they were without any evidence other than a photo of them on a train. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:35:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not emotionally invested in the outcome. The fact is that Ukraine will not receive western support indefinitely, and an offensive delay is likely to accelerate that outcome. Russia is ramping up war productions and is able to sustain fighting long after western support dries up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol. Dude no one ever believes a damn thing you say... Your the king of copium I am not emotionally invested in the outcome. The fact is that Ukraine will not receive western support indefinitely, and an offensive delay is likely to accelerate that outcome. Russia is ramping up war productions and is able to sustain fighting long after western support dries up. The more cynical GDers are thinking that western support will continue until Russia collapses under its own stupidity. That belief is based on the notion that the west wants to destroy Russia's ability to wage conventional war and threaten its neighbors and western interests worldwide. The theory is when Russia's economy implodes and their conventional forces become non-functional to the point of barely being a border patrol, that the era of Russia as a perennial pariah state will come to an end. Russia *can't* ramp up production because they don't have the materiel or manpower to do so. It's been proven the Russians cannot sustain what little "offensive" they tried in Bahkmut. The only question now is whether they withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea, as a self-preservation move or they are forcibly removed by Ukraine. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:36:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL today is starting out great for Ukraine again! More Russian retreats from Bakhmut! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/60857/Screenshot_20230512-082328_Twitter_jpg-2813992.JPG You are mocking OP for misleading thread titles yet you are doing the same. They aren’t retreating from Bakhmut, they are still in Bakhmut. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:36:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Looks like the Ukrainians are trying to recapture their fallen city, interesting to see how this plays out.
Reported about 6 hrs ago Ukrainian forces have carried out a series of counterattacks recapturing some blocks within the city and expanding the buffer along the Khromove road.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:38:06 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:42:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I said that they weren’t in theater and I was correct. You kept saying that they were without any evidence other than a photo of them on a train.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:43:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The more cynical GDers are thinking that western support will continue until Russia collapses under its own stupidity. That belief is based on the notion that the west wants to destroy Russia's ability to wage conventional war and threaten its neighbors and western interests worldwide. The theory is when Russia's economy implodes and their conventional forces become non-functional to the point of barely being a border patrol, that the era of Russia as a perennial pariah state will come to an end. Russia *can't* ramp up production because they don't have the materiel or manpower to do so. It's been proven the Russians cannot sustain what little "offensive" they tried in Bahkmut. The only question now is whether they withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea, as a self-preservation move or they are forcibly removed by Ukraine. Time is on Russia’s side. Western support is shaky and the BRICS have greatly expanded their trading and financial relationships. No doubt Russia was not geared up for a protracted conflict, but they have claimed that they ramped up production. I imagine that they have, time will tell. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:43:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like the Ukrainians are trying to recapture their fallen city, interesting to see how this plays out. Reported about 6 hrs ago Ukrainian forces have carried out a series of counterattacks recapturing some blocks within the city and expanding the buffer along the Khromove road. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/Fv6iD0rXoAEd4ft_jpeg-2814062.JPG Trying? Looks like they are currently succeeding. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:44:03 AM EDT
[#20]
I'm not happy about the current state of Ukraine's military for this anticipated offensive.
They don't have air superiority and that's a vital requirement that must be met before any significant armored thrust can be conducted. This is definitely ideal conditions for launching an offensive. You can argue about whether the U.S. should be supporting Ukraine or not, but in my opinion once you're in for a penny you're in for a pound. Giving Ukraine billions in armor and other equipment then NOT providing them with air assets is honestly foolish and a bit baffling to me. It's a half assed way to do things and you don't anything half way in a War, which is a lesson that I would have hoped the USA learned after the GWOT. 
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:45:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: weak minds fall easily for propaganda, some more easily than others. Its quite sad to see some here actually want to see Ukraine fall. They dont want to help a freedom loving nation on the verge of falling to an evil dictator. the belief that putin is some "world hero" that will save everyone from the "globohomo" has been driven into weak minds. And we see it here on arfcom. The only ground truth is who holds what territory. Russia is in Ukraine, not the other way around. Success for actual Ukrainians is sovereign borders. They don't have that yet. Surviving was a great goal for the first couple months but if it were to all stop now, Russia wins, despite the price they paid. The core group of Ukiebros (I don't mean that as a pejorative) is massively biased equally if opposite to the putin puffers. Any discussion that doesn't recognize that is just a circle jerk. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:46:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not happy about the current state of Ukraine's military for this anticipated offensive. They don't have air superiority and that's a vital requirement that must be met before any significant armored thrust can be conducted. This is definitely ideal conditions for launching an offensive. You can argue about whether the U.S. should be supporting Ukraine or not, but in my opinion once you're in for a penny you're in for a pound. Giving Ukraine billions in armor and other equipment then NOT providing them with air assets is honestly foolish and a bit baffling to me. It's a half assed way to do things and you don't anything half way in a War, which is a lesson that I would have hoped the USA learned after the GWOT. While they don't have air superiority, the Russians don't either. While we haven't fought outside of air superiority (or more frequently supremacy) in a while, they are at least working in an parity position. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:46:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like the Ukrainians are trying to recapture their fallen city, interesting to see how this plays out. Reported about 6 hrs ago Ukrainian forces have carried out a series of counterattacks recapturing some blocks within the city and expanding the buffer along the Khromove road. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/Fv6iD0rXoAEd4ft_jpeg-2814062.JPG So it went from “fallen” to “mostly fallen”, back to “fallen”? That the Russians seem to be losing ground must be very distressing to you. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:46:55 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, at the time I made that statement they were not there, at least there was no evidence of that included destroyed units. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:49:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The more cynical GDers are thinking that western support will continue until Russia collapses under its own stupidity. That belief is based on the notion that the west wants to destroy Russia's ability to wage conventional war and threaten its neighbors and western interests worldwide. The theory is when Russia's economy implodes and their conventional forces become non-functional to the point of barely being a border patrol, that the era of Russia as a perennial pariah state will come to an end. Russia *can't* ramp up production because they don't have the materiel or manpower to do so. It's been proven the Russians cannot sustain what little "offensive" they tried in Bahkmut. The only question now is whether they withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea, as a self-preservation move or they are forcibly removed by Ukraine. My contention all along is that this situation is pandoras box, either way it goes things get worse. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:50:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trying? Looks like they are currently succeeding. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like the Ukrainians are trying to recapture their fallen city, interesting to see how this plays out. Reported about 6 hrs ago Ukrainian forces have carried out a series of counterattacks recapturing some blocks within the city and expanding the buffer along the Khromove road. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/Fv6iD0rXoAEd4ft_jpeg-2814062.JPG Trying? Looks like they are currently succeeding. Yeah, not seeing where the Ukrainians control most of Bakhmut, so yes, trying. Stop being so dramatic over words, eat a Snickers! |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:53:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the best case scenario. If Russia sees a strong, wester allied Ukraine on its long border as a threat they may not go quietly. My contention all along is that this situation is pandoras box, either way it goes things get worse. I agree. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:55:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The core group of Ukiebros (I don't mean that as a pejorative) is massively biased equally if opposite to the putin puffers. Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:59:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. It was a comment on the inherent bias in the discussion. A good discussion of facts isn't effected by the members moral judgements. Facts are facts. There is certainly a time and place for moral judgement but winning or losing a battle is empirical. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:59:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Time is on Russia’s side. Western support is shaky and the BRICS have greatly expanded their trading and financial relationships. I'm having a really hard time figuring out how the side that's starting to pull 1950s era kit out of storage - T-55/54 and BTR-50 (!) - has "time on it's side". To me, that means looks like more like "scraping the bottom of the barrel". |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:00:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. That’s a slippery slope. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:01:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a slippery slope. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. That’s a slippery slope. How so? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:03:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm having a really hard time figuring out how the side that's starting to pull 1950s era kit out of storage - T-55/54 and BTR-50 (!) - has "time on it's side". To me, that means looks like more like "scraping the bottom of the barrel". If they were losing a lot of their best stuff, wouldn’t it make sense to sacrifice your worst stuff first? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:05:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The core group of Ukiebros (I don't mean that as a pejorative) is massively biased equally if opposite to the putin puffers. Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. "moral equivalency"  "It's ok to be biased because we're the good guys!"
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:05:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How so? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:08:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they were losing a lot of their best stuff, wouldn’t it make sense to sacrifice your worst stuff first? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm having a really hard time figuring out how the side that's starting to pull 1950s era kit out of storage - T-55/54 and BTR-50 (!) - has "time on it's side". To me, that means looks like more like "scraping the bottom of the barrel". If they were losing a lot of their best stuff, wouldn’t it make sense to sacrifice your worst stuff first? Is their goal to win quickly or kill a lot of their own people? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:08:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "moral equivalency" "It's ok to be biased because we're the good guys!"Every side of every conflict rolls with the backing of Almighty God, or haven't you noticed that? Like I said I have no quams about our goals, even the ones we aren't discussing. It's just that to have an informed discussion you have to dispense with the silly bullshit and talk about reality. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:10:08 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How so? As I stated previously, there has been an active campaign since the Obama administration to demonize, blame, and threaten Russia. Remember Russia, Russia, Russia? At some point you have to take your enemies serious. We have as much blood on our hands as the Russians. That is a fact. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:11:17 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is their goal to win quickly or kill a lot of their own people?  I think they wanted to win quickly but it became apparent that they were going to kill a lot of their people. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:12:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As I stated previously, there has been an active campaign since the Obama administration to demonize, blame, and threaten Russia. Remember Russia, Russia, Russia? At some point you have to take your enemies serious. We have as much blood on our hands as the Russians. That is a fact. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How so? As I stated previously, there has been an active campaign since the Obama administration to demonize, blame, and threaten Russia. Remember Russia, Russia, Russia? At some point you have to take your enemies serious. We have as much blood on our hands as the Russians. That is a fact. How dare we blame Russia for their invasion of Ukraine. They are the victims here. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:12:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they wanted to win quickly but it became apparent that they were going to kill a lot of their people. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:15:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How dare we blame Russia for their invasion of Ukraine. They are the victims here. I didn’t say that, but we can’t pretend we have clean hands and moral supremacy because that is absolutely bullshit. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:17:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How dare we blame Russia for their invasion of Ukraine. They are the victims here. We certainly began exerting soft power in Ukraine that made Putin nervous. He's still a murderous bastard that should be hung with piano wire, but the masters of the universe at our state department get paid to not do dumb shit that gets tens of thousands of people killed as well. We aren't totally innocent. That's the truth as uncomfortable as it is. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:20:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia has had a pattern if behavior since the late 90s of striking out to places that pose a threat to essentially Moscow, Muscavites are the core of the power in Russia. We certainly began exerting soft power in Ukraine that made Putin nervous. He's still a murderous bastard that should be hung with piano wire, but the masters of the universe at our state department get paid to not do dumb shit that gets tens of thousands of people killed as well. We aren't totally innocent. That's the truth as uncomfortable as it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How dare we blame Russia for their invasion of Ukraine. They are the victims here. We certainly began exerting soft power in Ukraine that made Putin nervous. He's still a murderous bastard that should be hung with piano wire, but the masters of the universe at our state department get paid to not do dumb shit that gets tens of thousands of people killed as well. We aren't totally innocent. That's the truth as uncomfortable as it is. Nothing the US has done warrants a war of acquisition on Russia’s part. The notion that the West somehow “forced” Russia to try to annex its neighbor is pure nonsense. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:25:43 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they were losing a lot of their best stuff, wouldn’t it make sense to sacrifice your worst stuff first? If the situation is such that they are going to lose no matter which kit they use - T-55s or T-90Ms, then yes, it makes sense to use up old stuff first. It also makes sense if they are going to win no matter which kit they use. But to me, this doesn't seem like either one of those situations. The balance between both sides is close enough that quality of the equipment should make a difference. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:28:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Time is on Russia’s side. Western support is shaky and the BRICS have greatly expanded their trading and financial relationships. No doubt Russia was not geared up for a protracted conflict, but they have claimed that they ramped up production. I imagine that they have, time will tell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The more cynical GDers are thinking that western support will continue until Russia collapses under its own stupidity. That belief is based on the notion that the west wants to destroy Russia's ability to wage conventional war and threaten its neighbors and western interests worldwide. The theory is when Russia's economy implodes and their conventional forces become non-functional to the point of barely being a border patrol, that the era of Russia as a perennial pariah state will come to an end. Russia *can't* ramp up production because they don't have the materiel or manpower to do so. It's been proven the Russians cannot sustain what little "offensive" they tried in Bahkmut. The only question now is whether they withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea, as a self-preservation move or they are forcibly removed by Ukraine. Time is on Russia’s side. Western support is shaky and the BRICS have greatly expanded their trading and financial relationships. No doubt Russia was not geared up for a protracted conflict, but they have claimed that they ramped up production. I imagine that they have, time will tell. This is bass-ackwards. Time is most assuredly *NOT* on Russia's side, quite the opposite. Every day, the sanctions bite harder, more military-aged males are killed (or surreptitiously leave the country), complex parts imported from the west run out, their economy withers on the vine, and their conventional military strength dwindles. BRICS financial relationships aren't relevant with the sanctions in place. Further, as Ukraine's success continues to mount, western support will likely increase because politically, everyone likes to back the winner. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:31:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wasn't meant to be any moral judgement, there is no debate on that front. It was a comment on the inherent bias in the discussion. A good discussion of facts isn't effected by the members moral judgements. Facts are facts. There is certainly a time and place for moral judgement but winning or losing a battle is empirical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. It was a comment on the inherent bias in the discussion. A good discussion of facts isn't effected by the members moral judgements. Facts are facts. There is certainly a time and place for moral judgement but winning or losing a battle is empirical. Agreed. People who are emotionally invested abandon critical thinking and become victims of confirmation bias. There are also those who simply lack critical thinking ability and therefore demonstrate confirmation bias without even knowing that they are doing it. Most of GD falls into either of these categories. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:33:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the best case scenario. If Russia sees a strong, wester allied Ukraine on its long border as a threat they may not go quietly. My contention all along is that this situation is pandoras box, either way it goes things get worse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The more cynical GDers are thinking that western support will continue until Russia collapses under its own stupidity. That belief is based on the notion that the west wants to destroy Russia's ability to wage conventional war and threaten its neighbors and western interests worldwide. The theory is when Russia's economy implodes and their conventional forces become non-functional to the point of barely being a border patrol, that the era of Russia as a perennial pariah state will come to an end. Russia *can't* ramp up production because they don't have the materiel or manpower to do so. It's been proven the Russians cannot sustain what little "offensive" they tried in Bahkmut. The only question now is whether they withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea, as a self-preservation move or they are forcibly removed by Ukraine. My contention all along is that this situation is pandoras box, either way it goes things get worse. When Ukraine boots Russia from its territory, the peace negotiations will begin. How that plays out is anybody's guess. But, at that point, Russia will have no say in anything Ukraine does or does not do. Thing is, from a purely practical standpoint, Ukraine joining NATO after begin trained on NATO weapons and tactics is a no-brainer. That would be the kind of security Ukraine could count on, not a "parchment guarantee". |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:33:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "moral equivalency" "It's ok to be biased because we're the good guys!"Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The core group of Ukiebros (I don't mean that as a pejorative) is massively biased equally if opposite to the putin puffers. Such a false moral equivalency. One side are evil invaders, the other side isn't. "moral equivalency" "It's ok to be biased because we're the good guys!"I have always been biased in favor of America, over all other nations. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 11:35:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't say that, but we can't pretend we have clean hands and moral supremacy because that is absolutely bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How dare we blame Russia for their invasion of Ukraine. They are the victims here. I didn't say that, but we can't pretend we have clean hands and moral supremacy because that is absolutely bullshit. Yup, how many secret biolabs do/did we have in the Ukraine? |
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