There are definitely issues with the direction Francis wants to lead the Church and he will be judged accordingly, but it's not my place to judge him or to pretend I know God's plan.  He is only a temporary steward, and is no reason to leave the faith of Christ's Church.

Francis and the bishops reactions to the abuses are a major problem, be it evil, incompetence, or cowardice.  Pedophilia is a problem in all of society, protestant denominations just the same, more so in secular society.  Don't fall prey to the propaganda of the media, the antithesis of the Church.  I'm sure we agree however, what needs to be done in these situations where it's beyond doubt.  

The Mass is not for us, as we modernists like to believe, it's for God.  Having said that, there are a couple of priests in our diocese that are very holy and pious homilists.  In the end, it's not what we get out of it, it's what we give that matters.  

Lack of understanding is no reason for rejection, and unfortunately even many shepherds post Vatican II seem to have little or no understanding and therefore don't properly catechize their flocks with proper apologetics.

"And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth." John 17:3

Yes, the church is full of sinners. There has been only one who didn't sin. Yes, some put on a church face, then live a different life at home. I believe the church is actually quite the mission field, if we know people are living in sin or some who don't even know Jesus but think they are going to be with God eternally, how can we not try to help them?

Buuuttt, yes there are churches who are leading people astray. We must discern by the Spirit that we are in a church who preaches, teaches and follows God's word.

Good for you. So many Catholics never realize this.

The Catholics who do realize that do not understand what Catholics actually believe.

EO and Rome can't trace their roots back to jesus. The linkage is not there. You are forced to rely on traditions that go against the texts, which were around before rome or the EO ever existed - the texts that the apostles wrote.


No, it didn't. It's the gospel that the texts of the bible contain.  People are not stupid, they can read the text and see what they mean, in the normal everyday ordinary way they read other things. Wheverever the text has been, there has been the gospel we preach - that Jesus actually saves people.





I can understand why you wouldn't want to get into that given how the current pope is, but that's exactly what you need to do, for yourself. If your beliefs cannot stand up to the pressure of reality, something in them is not right and has to be fixed.

Conciliarism would seem to still be deader than a doornail, and bergoglio is packing the power structure with people like him and further to his theological left. Rome may be seeing another split within our lifetimes. I wouldn't be surprised to see the african bishops lead the way out.

Yes, they can, and yes, it is.  There is no forcing of tradition against the texts, the texts the apostles wrote, as bishops of the Church that Christ founded.



I see.



It's a matter of not derailing this thread, my beliefs stand up just fine to the pressure and has been hardened by discussions such as this, so thank you my brother.

I'm not worried, God has a plan and I have faith in Him.

Both quotes above from mini14jac and Gullskjegg are, IMO, excellent, even profound. Having given up arfcom for Lent, these both were great to read. Thanks much.  

That is such a profound question.  And I think it's one of the most proximate ones to the question of whether God exists.

Call me weak if you want, but I realized a long time ago that I cannot do it on my own.  I need God's help and I don't know where else to find it more concretely than in the Church He founded for the economy of our salvation.  As anything run by men, it is not perfect, but God works even through imperfect men (I would be doubting His omnipotence if I thought less than that).  Our Lord knew from the beginning--He is omniscient--that it would not be perfect.  Yet, that is what he decided was best.  And that is good enough for me.  If I left because of some of the evil in the Church--and, yes, there appears to be an increasing amount of it--where would I go?  It seems to me that the moment I leave the Church He founded for me, I distance myself from His word and I begin following my own.  No offense to anyone, but to leave and do my own things really seems like an act of pride (i.e.: as if I knew better that God).

Well said, abnk. I certainly concur.