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You can't have a thread about Christianity without the special snowflakes coming in to post their drivel. Its a different story if its chicks with dicks thread.... They love those. Christianity however, ruffles their jimmies. View Quote This is GD. |
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Great Ted talk on how David easily kicked Goliath's ass.
The unheard story of David and Goliath | Malcolm Gladwell |
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If I am interested, I read multiple sources. When it comes to the bible and speaking to people of any religion..it seems that they have one source. If you doubt that source, you are a bad person. Most of the people I have met that believe in this, have believed since they were a child. Their parents taught them that it is the truth. They are doing the same with their kids. If you teach a kid from a young age that one book is the way of life and all others are wrong...the kid is likely going to believe that and carry that for the rest of their lives. View Quote |
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The size difference between Goliath and David was not so great that David couldn't effectively use Goliath's sword.
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If your interest is in history, especially the ancient variety, there are going to be many instances where you only have a single source for an event. Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Sumerian, Babylonian, Perisan, & etc. The history books would be pretty empty is 2 or 3 primary sources were required. View Quote It just means we have one source. |
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I have recently started trying to read the bible through, and I have a similar question. It says the Ark was 300 cubits in length, 50 cubits in width and 30 cubits in height and that when the flood occurred that the water rose 30 cubits. BUT where it gets interesting is that it clearly says that it covered mountains and so on. So how fucking big is a cubit, and imagine the size of the Ark in comparison So if he was 6 cubits tall, I imagine he had to have been a monster because he's like a fifth as tall as the Ark according to the bible. View Quote |
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Simply because we have one source, doesn't mean that source is true or factual. It just means we have one source. View Quote David refused but his father is reputedly to be a LARGE man also. So, I don't know that we will ever really have a good handle on how big David was, or turned out to be when he got older...............??? |
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Simply because we have one source, doesn't mean that source is true or factual. It just means we have one source. View Quote Don't worry, though. There's always anthropology. |
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Extravagant claims require extravagant proof. Faith doesn't cut it. View Quote The Lord Speaks 38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy? 8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, 9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, 10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, 11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’? 12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, 13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. 15 The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken. 16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness? 18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this. 19 “What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? 20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? 21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years! 22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, 23 which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? 24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth? 25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, 26 to water a land where no one lives, an uninhabited desert, 27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? 28 Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? 29 From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens 30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen? 31 “Can you bind the chains[b] of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt? 32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c] or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs? 33 Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God’s[e] dominion over the earth? 34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water? 35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’? 36 Who gives the ibis wisdom[f] or gives the rooster understanding?[g] 37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens 38 when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together? 39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions 40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket? 41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food? |
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Disregarding a discussion on whether the Bible uses AGL or ASL... Where is this 45 feet number coming from? The waters swelled fifteen cubits above the mountains, covering them. Gen. 7:20 LEB. View Quote |
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Yes it does. It also says that God then deemed that man should not live that long. Did the exaggerations about people's ages suddenly stop 4k years ago? Did the guy writing Exodus say "whoa, nobody who reads Genesis in the year 2000 is going to believe that, I'd better make people normal." View Quote |
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And as far as Goliath, I may give weight to the Septuagint, 4Q51 Samuel^a, and Josephus, and say Goliath was 6'9".
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“The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep.”
??Genesis? ?7:20? ?ESV?? http://bible.com/59/gen.7.20.esv The water was above the mountains |
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Important question is which NBA team picks up Goliath? Would Jordan in his prime outplay Goliath? These are important questions that need answering.
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It certainly is. Can you name other 2-5k year old history books and do you give them the same scrutiny? Are you as skeptical about the Amarna tablets? Do you give weight to all the Babylonian texts found? As for the OP, the Bible doesn't give David's height but says he was a youth, so a teenager. Probably skinny. Everybody was. View Quote |
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There is a religious sub-section on the forums where you can talk all you want about the evils of Christianity. This is GD. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You can't have a thread about Christianity without the special snowflakes coming in to post their drivel. Its a different story if its chicks with dicks thread.... They love those. Christianity however, ruffles their jimmies. This is GD. If you don't believe so be it, but the bible makes clear the value of faith. If God wanted to reveal everything He would, but He determined faith to be more valuable than simple compliance. You say you have no faith, but you think nothing exploded into the entire universe. To me, that says your faith is greater than mine. But poorly placed. |
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And as far as Goliath, I may give weight to the Septuagint, 4Q51 Samuel^a, and Josephus, and say Goliath was 6'9". Was he wearing elevator sandals? |
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Giants Height Scale
I believe that figure D is Goliath, though other scales show him larger. |
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I've been listening to a lot of podcasts about the giants of old and fallen angel/human love kids. I'd say David facing Goliath was bought like someone running into one of the big alpha male bigfoots. Surely everyone on here has read enough of the ARFCOM bigfoot threads to get a visual of that.
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Giants Height Scale I believe that figure D is Goliath, though other scales show him larger. View Quote |
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Goliath was around 9 feet. Given the size of the average man back then was around 5'5" and David was a youth he was probably 5 feetish. His stone was about the size of a baseball or racquetball.
I believe the encounter was the beginning of the saying "talks cheap, back it up." Later when David fled Saul he stopped by the temple and took Goliath's sword for a weapon. In the end he only used it to cut a piece of cloth from Saul's cloak to show he could have killed the king but didn't thereby regaining Sauls favor. |
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one of King Sauls descriptions is that he was tall - so he was obviously meant to fight the giant.
David placing his faith in God for strength and wisdom ended up ruling the day. |
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The Bible doesn't weigh in on the matter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There are some excellent books written by people who felt the same way as you, went out to prove it, and ended up coming to a much different conclusion. You should read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel as a starting point. |
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Six cubits, and a span is the definitive answer. So, in modern terms... what was the nature of this fight? How big was David? Are we talking, Andre the Giant vs Tom Cruise? (Tom cruise is a small man) View Quote Goliath over 9ft tall and David was a teenager most probably. |
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I think there is one part of the Bible that says David's father asked him if he wanted to use his armor suit to fight Goliath. David refused but his father is reputedly to be a LARGE man also. So, I don't know that we will ever really have a good handle on how big David was, or turned out to be when he got older...............??? View Quote |
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Goliath was a post flood giant so he was smaller than the original men of renown. He was about 9 ft. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Goliath was a post flood giant so he was smaller than the original men of renown. He was about 9 ft. A FAMILIAL ASPECT TO GOLIATH’S GIGANTISMGoliath, the Gittite, is the most well known giant in the Bible. He is described
as ‘a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, whose height was six cubits and a span’ (Samuel 17:4). From Samuel and Chronicles (table I), we have drawn Goliath's pedigree (figure 1). A literal interpretation of the verses suggests that his brother and three sons were also of giant stature. The name of Goliath's third son does not appear in the Bible, so we have named him Exadactylus as it was said that ‘he had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes’ (Samuel 21:20-21). Goliath's family tree is suggestive of a hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene, such as AIP2. Table I Bible references for the relatives in figure 1 Fig 1 Goliath's Pedigree. Affected members are shaded in black. + symbol indicates exadactyly. Goliath was killed by David who threw a stone at his forehead (Samuel 17:49). This gives further evidence that he suffered from pituitary gland dysfunction; a pituitary tumour pressing on his optic chiasm, and consequent visual disturbance due to pressure on his optic nerve, would have made it difficult for him to see the stone in his lateral vision. Pituitary giants look impressive in terms of stature, but may not have speed and agility to match their perceived strength. David, having agility, particularly having declined the heavy set of armour that was offered to him, and being skilled at sling shots, may have found a way around the fearsome looking giant by firing a sling shot from the side of the battlefield. The fact that Goliath may have had a pituitary tumour was recognised by Vladimir Berginer in a paper in 20003. In his description of the condition, he notes a painting of David and Goliath by Puget in the 18th century noting the appearance of acromegaly in the severed head of Goliath, and remarks that the painting was done more than one hundred years before Marie originally described the condition in 1886. He also helpfully comments that Goliath was killed by David severing his head, not from the impact of the stone which felled him, possibly due to brain contusion, but did not actually kill him directly. Gigantism results when a growth hormone-secreting pituitary adenoma is present before epiphyseal fusion. Pituitary adenomas can be present in a number of genetic conditions, such as multiple endocrine neoplasia type 1, Carney complex, and Familial Isolated Pituitary Adenoma (FIPA). FIPA is an autosomal dominant condition with incomplete penetrance, caused by germline mutations of the aryl hydrocarbon receptor interacting protein (AIP) gene4. Patients with AIP mutations have an earlier mean age at diagnosis than AIP mutation-negative patients4. The age of Goliath is not clear, but early onset of pituitary tumours is typical of hereditary gigantism and limitation of lateral vision is common. Goliath himself had a shield bearer precede him, possibly to indicate to Goliath the direction of the approaching foe. Polydactyly has not been described in association with FIPA. The AIP gene lies on chromosome 11q13.3. The Bardet-Biedl gene, BBS1, is located close by on chromosome 11q13.2. Bardet-Biedl syndrome type I is characterized by rod-cone dystrophy, truncal obesity, cognitive impairment and postaxial polydactyly5. The protein encoded by BBS1 is thought to play a role in limb development. It is unlikely that Goliath's family had FIPA caused by a microdeletion which also involved BBS1, as the genetic distance between the BBS1 and AIP genes is separated by a 1 Mb gene-packed region. Such a gap makes an inherited contiguous gene syndrome unlikely as there would have been too many other features. Very rarely BBS1 patients have symmetric exadactyly; most commonly it is present in one or two extremities, upper and lower-not in all four. We are not given much other detail about Exadactylus so a new BBS1 mutation due to some complex rearrangement is unlikely-a new mutation in an autosomal dominant polydactyly gene might explain his symmetrical phenotype. If he had pituitary disease and six digits-he may have looked an intimidating foe-but he may not have been a great warrior in action. Interestingly, the book of Samuel refers to five stones that David carefully selected for his sling from the nearby stream, and further reading of the surrounding passages shows that David's relatives were all involved in the deaths of the other giants in Goliath's family. There can be other interpretations for this and various types of symbolism, but it appears likely that several giants may have been from Goliath's family, further suggesting autosomal dominant inheritance. The reverse also almost happened-Ishbibenob, Goliath's son, is credited with almost killing David until the swift intervention of David's nephew Abishai (2 Samuel 21.16), so clearly intellect or agility was not deficient in some of the giants, and myopathy seen in some cases of pituitary disease in later life, not a direct issue in the younger giants. |
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Extravagant claims require extravagant proof. Faith doesn't cut it. View Quote The Lord Speaks 38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy? 8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, 9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, 10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, 11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’? 12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, 13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. 15 The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken. 16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness? 18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this. 19 “What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? 20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? 21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years! 22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, 23 which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? 24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth? 25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, 26 to water a land where no one lives, an uninhabited desert, 27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? 28 Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? 29 From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens 30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen? 31 “Can you bind the chains[b] of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt? 32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c] or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs? 33 Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God’s[e] dominion over the earth? 34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water? 35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’? 36 Who gives the ibis wisdom[f] or gives the rooster understanding?[g] 37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens 38 when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together? 39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions 40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket? 41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food? |
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Is it so hard to just read the story for yourself? Murica is full of illiterates. Little D chopped off his head. That's what killed him. View Quote But I read the story many years ago............so he was still moving around(?)...............I must have forgotten that. I always thought he did that as sort of a "trophy". Quote, 1 Samuel 17: 45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a javelin: but I come to thee in the name of Jehovah of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. 46 This day will Jehovah deliver thee into my hand; and I will smite thee, and take thy head from off thee; and I will give the dead bodies of the host of the Philistines this day unto the birds of the heavens, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, 47 and that all this assembly may know that Jehovah saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is Jehovah's, and he will give you into our hand. 48 And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hastened, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. 49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead; and the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell upon his face to the earth. 50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. 51 Then David ran, and stood over the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled. |
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It certainly is. Can you name other 2-5k year old history books and do you give them the same scrutiny? Are you as skeptical about the Amarna tablets? Do you give weight to all the Babylonian texts found? As for the OP, the Bible doesn't give David's height but says he was a youth, so a teenager. Probably skinny. Everybody was. View Quote |
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And as far as Goliath, I may give weight to the Septuagint, 4Q51 Samuel^a, and Josephus, and say Goliath was 6'9". View Quote |
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You can't have a thread about Christianity without the special snowflakes coming in to post their drivel. Its a different story if its chicks with dicks thread.... They love those. Christianity however, ruffles their jimmies. View Quote |
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Even at 6'9" he'd most likely be a foot taller than the biggest of Israelites and 18" taller than the average man of the time. King Saul was supposed to have been a very large man and he probably didn't even hit six feet. View Quote |
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