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Posted: 6/8/2021 6:43:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 and 250,000 So, no different from ignoring the brace nonsense. At some point, people will make that calculation. If all else is equal, why not? |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 6:51:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, no different from ignoring the brace nonsense. At some point, people will make that calculation. If all else is equal, why not? 10 and 250,000 If one is afraid of 10 and 250,000 for the first violation, why is the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th going to make them magically a tier 1 nut dragger? The idea that after the first one, a person somehow man’s up, is internet bullshit. The inevitable happened. That dude, that blames Trump for all this, will continue to post. This tread will go 4K+. Everyone will take their uppers off, box their braces up and talk about how they wish a motherfucker would. Those with SBR’d lowers will say I told you so. 80% guys will wait in line along with trigger guys for their turn at Fun with Math, the ATF addition. Maybe the courts sort this out....maybe not. Plan accordingly. Black Rifle Coffee will introduce a Brace Yourself Blend and MAC will run a video of him drinking it while shooting his braced SVD in a thou shall not comply manner. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:02:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Meh, it will just cause thousands if braces to hit the parts box in exchange for real stocks and most everyone else will ignore it. It's like bumpstocks, I don't know a single person that owned one who threw it away.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:14:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if the pistol is over 26" and becomes a firearm? It looks like if the gun is over 26" that point list means nothing. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:16:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like the whole point of this is to try to turn otherwise law abiding gun owners into criminals so they can be persecuted for political reasons. Since gun owners are more likely to believe in the principles of freedom, and vote for republicans. Yep. Attend the wrong rally, send money to the wrong type of candidate, make the wrong comment on social media...0300 raid and plenty of accessory charges. While we can continue to fight politically, every gun-owner is an enemy of the state. Ironic how any firearms felony is basically loss of that liberty for life. What other God-given rights does the Gov't get to decide if you get them or not with confusing regulatory language from bureaucrats? ROCK6 |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:17:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, it will just cause thousands if braces to hit the parts box in exchange for real stocks and most everyone else will ignore it. It's like bumpstocks, I don't know a single person that owned one who threw it away. Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. 
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:20:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meh, it will just cause thousands if braces to hit the parts box in exchange for real stocks and most everyone else will ignore it. It's like bumpstocks, I don't know a single person that owned one who threw it away. Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Good. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:22:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As long as the American people continue to kick the can down the road, government will just get more ridiculous and more unconstitutional. Peace was never an option.  Attached FileAyup, we will continue to chip away at the BOR one president at a time. This is nothing new. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:24:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So under the proposed rule, a Glock 17 in a Roni brace would be a SBR? |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:24:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Meh, so what. When the government can lie, cheat, steal, and make shit up...why can't their employers do it? Honestly, I think this is a strategy to be so outrageous that the RINOs will agree to a compromise...which is still a net-loss. I also think this is a good time to gab the NFA by the balls and take it to the SCOTUS for strict scrutiny based on the origins. This is a good time to consider donating to the solid, pro-2A legal foundations and keep the ATF busy in court under legal pressures while picking up steam for a trip to the SCOTUS. I think all our SBR owning brothers need to start spoofing the BATFE by putting braces on and shooting at public ranges. I was going to Form 1 my DDM4V7 just to put a stock on it, but I may just leave the brace on to fuck with fudds and feds when I take classes. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:25:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. My career in the graphic arts and printing industry finally pays off financially and politically! BTW, what do you mean start?  |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:27:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @AS556, their proposed rule says anything over 26" was designed to be fired by two hands so adding a brace immediately turns it into an SBR. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if the pistol is over 26" and becomes a firearm? It looks like if the gun is over 26" that point list means nothing. But anything under 64 ounces is designed to be fired with one hand ... |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:27:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Fuck that. People will start CNCing multiple same serial numbers on lowers and cans in a one stamp fits all manner. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:31:03 AM EDT
[#14]
I ain't changing shit. Fuck the ATF.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:31:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Our Fouding Father's gave us the only rule that matters.
 Attached FileAnd we need to shove it down their fucking throats, all of us together in 1 voice, until they understand. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:41:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But anything under 64 ounces is designed to be fired with one hand ... |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:42:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Too many hoops....
Too arbitrary.... Too late.... I'm curious as to what braces sold today, as is, would actually pass as a brace. I don't think anyone will get rid of their brace (some might take them off), and there will be lawsuits for years....assuming this even goes through. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:45:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too many hoops.... Too arbitrary.... Too late.... I'm curious as to what braces sold today, as is, would actually pass as a brace. I don't think anyone will get rid of their brace (some might take them off), and there will be lawsuits for years....assuming this even goes through. You can still fail on other metrics like weight(both low and high), overall length, magnified optics, front grips and even flip up sights add a point towards failing. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:51:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hell you could ask 10 ppl to score a pistol and prob get 10 different scores. What a cluster! That's the point. This "rule" is intended to give the appearance of a defined set of criteria, while in actuality being vague and inconsistent, even with itself. It expands the AFT's power to arrest who they decide to when they decide they want to, while leaving others alone who don't fit the profile of who they want to target. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:54:27 AM EDT
[#20]
C
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our Fouding Father's gave us the only rule that matters. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/89990/2nd_amendment_jpg-1971344.JPG And we need to shove down their fucking throats, all of us together in 1 voice, until they understand. Communists only fear, respect, and understand kinetic responses to the cranium...the same tactics they prefer for persuasion. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:57:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Soooooooo? Is my brace gtg?
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Posted: 6/8/2021 7:59:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Never gonna fly
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:03:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the ATF responds to their poor interpretation of law by trying to implement a codified system of interpretation... but this time one which seemis to intentionally fail everything. Ergo, it is merely there to give the appearance something is capable of passing. Why even play games at this point? Incrementalism.  |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:03:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol "well, I don't see people doing it on the internet, so they must be complying for sure!"  Uh huh. Put it this way: if people were mass not-complying with SBR rules, you wouldn't see any fucking pistol braces at the range. You'd just see SBRs as far as the eye can see. So why do I keep seeing pistol braces everywhere? Answer: people talk a good game about non-compliance, but they shut up when it's time to put up. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:11:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh huh. Put it this way: if people were mass not-complying with SBR rules, you wouldn't see any fucking pistol braces at the range. You'd just see SBRs as far as the eye can see. So why do I keep seeing pistol braces everywhere? Answer: people talk a good game about non-compliance, but they shut up when it's time to put up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol "well, I don't see people doing it on the internet, so they must be complying for sure!" Uh huh. Put it this way: if people were mass not-complying with SBR rules, you wouldn't see any fucking pistol braces at the range. You'd just see SBRs as far as the eye can see. So why do I keep seeing pistol braces everywhere? Answer: people talk a good game about non-compliance, but they shut up when it's time to put up. Can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a bumpstock.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:12:01 AM EDT
[#26]
A no brace 10.5" pistol is gtg.
Are factory braced 10.5" no go or GTG? I don't care but I know at least 6-8 guys who have braced pistols that will never hear about this unless I tell them. That will piss them off. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:12:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meh, it will just cause thousands if braces to hit the parts box in exchange for real stocks and most everyone else will ignore it. It's like bumpstocks, I don't know a single person that owned one who threw it away. Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Why is that "unfortunate"? It would only be "unfortunate" if such people were caught though I guess it would give the "stamp collectors" a bit of heartburn.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:13:31 AM EDT
[#28]
“All laws/wishes/orders etc. which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” (Marbury vs.Madison, 1803.)
ROCK6 |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:16:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: C Communists only fear, respect, and understand kinetic responses to the cranium...the same tactics they prefer for persuasion. ROCK6 Quote HistoryQuoted: C Quoted: Our Fouding Father's gave us the only rule that matters. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/89990/2nd_amendment_jpg-1971344.JPG And we need to shove down their fucking throats, all of us together in 1 voice, until they understand. Communists only fear, respect, and understand kinetic responses to the cranium...the same tactics they prefer for persuasion. ROCK6 Can't argue with that. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:16:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Are Mossberg shockwaves gtg?
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:16:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Is this a good price on a braced pistol listed at less than 64 or should I wait? https://palmettostatearmory.com/s-w-m-p-15-22-optics-ready-22-lr-ar-15-pistol-black-13321.html
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:17:53 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is that "unfortunate"? It would only be "unfortunate" if such people were caught though I guess it would give the "stamp collectors" a bit of heartburn. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Meh, it will just cause thousands if braces to hit the parts box in exchange for real stocks and most everyone else will ignore it. It's like bumpstocks, I don't know a single person that owned one who threw it away. Unfortunately, people will start forging tax stamps to bring with on trips to the range. Why is that "unfortunate"? It would only be "unfortunate" if such people were caught though I guess it would give the "stamp collectors" a bit of heartburn. "Come on, man". If I thought breaking the king's laws was a good idea I'd definitely suggest that course of action. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:17:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh huh. Put it this way: if people were mass not-complying with SBR rules, you wouldn't see any fucking pistol braces at the range. You'd just see SBRs as far as the eye can see. So why do I keep seeing pistol braces everywhere? Answer: people talk a good game about non-compliance, but they shut up when it's time to put up. Sure thing man. Oh, Maryland. Nvm |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:23:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure thing man. Oh, Maryland. Nvm I do most of my shooting in VA. No difference whatsoever. And I travel pretty far south at times, too. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:26:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So under the proposed rule, a Glock 17 in a Roni brace would be a SBR? That is funny, a truly braced pistol is an SBR but a perfectly configured AR-15 isn’t! |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:26:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a stupid system they have conceived. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/128204/29C35C00-5B94-457F-B33E-662EE76AFCC1_png-1971096.JPG Here is the pic the included of a legal braced pistol Except they lied because the flip up sights put it at 5 points. Gotcha! Off to "federal pound me in the ass prison" for you! How do you get 5 points? Sections 2 and 3 are independent. You don't add the values from both sections to get a total. What a stupid system they have conceived. It is an excellent system. The reason it looks stupid to you is that you haven't accepted the fact that the purpose of all this is to trip up law-abiding people and turn them into criminals so the government has a reason to attack and destroy them. Secondary purposes include justifying continued employment of people at the batf and justification for more rules later when this bunch of rules don't make American society safe. I have no doubt that all the questions people have about this will be answered with another 50 or 250 pages of contradictory fluff and more silly rules which are impossible to comply with by design. The ultimate goal is that most people will give up their firearms instead of trying to fit into the tiny little areas that are declared "legal for now." |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:27:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Just contacted my rep to get him to fight the proposed rule, but he seems like a holy roller bible thumping RINO, if it doesn't have anything to do with abortion he probably isn't interested.
I could be wrong though. Warner and Special Timmay can't wipe the ATF jizz off their mouths fast enough to tell me to go fuck myself. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:31:49 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tailhooks without length adjustment or folding adapters pass. The original sb brace passes. You can still fail on other metrics like weight(both low and high), overall length, magnified optics, front grips and even flip up sights add a point towards failing. I think an SB SOB passes page 1....maybe. It seems to fall in line with the SB Mini. The Tailhook Mod 1's could go either way on page 1. I'm going to assume they pass. For some reason, a QD slots counts as a point, for a slot for a sling does not. KAK Shockwave fails page 1, but I guess could pass if it had a strap? The whole thing is BS since no one is fully sure on "how" to determine the point value of certain features. Plus, what does it matter if something is based on a stock design or not if it functions as a brace. I'm pretty sure crutches are adjustable...so why is that a problem for a brace? FATF |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:45:44 AM EDT
[#39]
“We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:46:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: KAK Shockwave fails page 1, but I guess could pass if it had a strap? Without saying such, it appears that this overrides prior ATF guidance about making modifications to braces. The KAK Shockwave was never approved or sold with a strap. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:55:39 AM EDT
[#41]
What a cluster fuck. They’ll just keep going. Soon enough they’ll say if it had a detachable mag it’s an “assault weapon” and it must be turned into the AFT office.
Tick tock. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 8:59:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never gonna fly I don't think so either, simply due to the fact the ATF allowed the sale of tens of thousands of pistols equipped with SBA3 braces for years and now all of a sudden they want to classify them as SBR's. ATF knows it isn't doing to fly. They are issuing these rules in order to get people to dispose of their pistol braces. Just like the bumpstock ban, this rule won't have any teeth either. The only case I know of where a person was charged with possession of a bumpstock ended up with the charge being dismissed. Pretty telling they don't think it will hold up in court. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:00:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you enjoying your 3 day wait to buy a gun, age to buy a gun bumped up to 21, and your Red Flag laws? Republicans fuck us,and I'm the bad guy for pointing it out? I'm the bad guy? How'd that happen? You're not the bad guy for pointing it out....you're the bad guy for pointing it out 20 times a day in every thread you can. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:03:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think so either, simply due to the fact the ATF allowed the sale of tens of thousands of pistols equipped with SBA3 braces for years and now all of a sudden they want to classify them as SBR's. ATF knows it isn't doing to fly. They are issuing these rules in order to get people to dispose of their pistol braces. Just like the bumpstock ban, this rule won't have any teeth either. The only case I know of where a person was charged with possession of a bumpstock ended up with the charge being dismissed. Pretty telling they don't think it will hold up in court. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Never gonna fly I don't think so either, simply due to the fact the ATF allowed the sale of tens of thousands of pistols equipped with SBA3 braces for years and now all of a sudden they want to classify them as SBR's. ATF knows it isn't doing to fly. They are issuing these rules in order to get people to dispose of their pistol braces. Just like the bumpstock ban, this rule won't have any teeth either. The only case I know of where a person was charged with possession of a bumpstock ended up with the charge being dismissed. Pretty telling they don't think it will hold up in court. As they say, you may beat the charge, but not the ride (or however it is said), and for many, that could be a costly ride. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:03:42 AM EDT
[#45]
I know this is obvious but there needs to be a HUGE fucking fire mission on here once the comments open on this rule change (if they haven’t already). Maybe one of the resident attorneys on here can come up with a template comment for those of us who don’t have a way with words.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:03:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not the bad guy for pointing it out....you're the bad guy for pointing it out 20 times a day in every thread you can. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are you enjoying your 3 day wait to buy a gun, age to buy a gun bumped up to 21, and your Red Flag laws? Republicans fuck us,and I'm the bad guy for pointing it out? I'm the bad guy? How'd that happen? You're not the bad guy for pointing it out....you're the bad guy for pointing it out 20 times a day in every thread you can. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:04:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a cluster fuck. They’ll just keep going. Soon enough they’ll say if it had a detachable mag it’s an “assault weapon” and it must be turned into the AFT office. Tick tock. This is the exact definition given by ATF head nominee Chipman (may he reap what he's sown). He sat in front of a Senate hearing and said any rifle with a caliber greater than .22 with a detachable magazine in his eyes is an assault rifle. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:04:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Its the most absurd thing I've ever seen come out of government in 20+ years i've been .gov. Its literally more difficult to determine if a brace is compliant than to determine the required staffing ratio at a medicaid certified 300 bed intermediate care facility for the intellectually and developmentally disabled.
1. Millions of guns were sold under prior guidance by AFT as legal pistols but would now (under proposed rule) be unregistered SBR's. Based on recent federal court decisions this won't stand once challenged. 2. Sights and optics requirements have nothing to do with barrel length and no place in rulemaking for "short barreled rifle" definitions. There are no laws precluding addition of reflex sights or folding sights to any other category of pistol either. This does NOT pass arbitrary test so will only help any challenges under #1. 3. AFT is retarded. 4. FJB. Fuck Pearls McBlowjob. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:05:55 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not the bad guy for pointing it out....you're the bad guy for pointing it out 20 times a day in every thread you can. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are you enjoying your 3 day wait to buy a gun, age to buy a gun bumped up to 21, and your Red Flag laws? Republicans fuck us,and I'm the bad guy for pointing it out? I'm the bad guy? How'd that happen? You're not the bad guy for pointing it out....you're the bad guy for pointing it out 20 times a day in every thread you can. I don’t think that it can be discussed enough. Infringements and the people that support them need rooted out. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:09:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its the most absurd thing I've ever seen come out of government in 20+ years i've been .gov. Its literally more difficult to determine if a brace is compliant than to determine the required staffing ratio at a medicaid certified 300 bed intermediate care facility for the intellectually and developmentally disabled. 1. Millions of guns were sold under prior guidance by AFT as legal pistols but would now (under proposed rule) be unregistered SBR's. Based on recent federal court decisions this won't stand once challenged. 2. Sights and optics requirements have nothing to do with barrel length and no place in rulemaking for "short barreled rifle" definitions. There are no laws precluding addition of reflex sights or folding sights to any other category of pistol either. This does NOT pass arbitrary test so will only help any challenges under #1. 3. AFT is retarded. 4. FJB. Fuck Pearls McBlowjob. Good post. I think this will get hammered by a decent court. It's capricious, arbitrary, and punitive while serving no purpose. I hope it gets challenged quickly and without collateral damage to some poor fucker who gets prosecuted for having what is today a perfectly legal firearm that was bought with the ATF's ok. |
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