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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:33:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I honestly don't think the Russians are as paranoid now as they were then. Maybe they should be... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's closer now than in 83. They were all EU/ UN bros right up to one year ago. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:35:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were all EU/ UN bros right up to one year ago. The sure ruined a good thing by fucking off into their neighbor. Imagine convincing most of the continent that green energy was just a small purchase of your gas away. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:37:56 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:40:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No need to argue here guys, If you all feel so strongly about defending a foreign country here is your chance. Put some of your own skin in the game and when you get back Ill let you talk all the shit in the world on me for not wanting to get involved. Until then... https://legionofukraine.com/ Everyone should pay but them. They are ok with future generations giving up their retirement wealth but fuck no you pay they aren't giving up shit while the yap there gums being wrong on every international issue to date and yeah fuck the US border vs Ukraine's. They have literally been wrong on EVERY single issue as they make their no skin in the game drama. Watch them and remember and take note as they spew globalist MSM talking points. You will see the same few coming back over and over. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:42:21 PM EDT
[#5]
The sky is darkening, I can smell the smoke and have never wanted more to live in South America.
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:45:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sure ruined a good thing by fucking off into their neighbor. Imagine convincing most of the continent that green energy was just a small purchase of your gas away. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They were all EU/ UN bros right up to one year ago. The sure ruined a good thing by fucking off into their neighbor. Imagine convincing most of the continent that green energy was just a small purchase of your gas away. Here's some news for you. Zelenskyy did not even speak Ukrainian sufficiently (spoke Russian as his primary language as he is from a Ukrainian city with significant Russian roots) to have a comfortable conversation (granted it might not be a far leap to learn one knowing the other) before he was elected president of Ukraine in 2019. On the platform of drawing closer ties to Russia and ending corruption. So he got a crash course in Ukranian once he got in and suddenly became antagonistic towards Russia (going against his campaign pitch) so I think its safe to say that corruption is still living well in Ukraine. Neocon influence is alive and well there just as it was for the Baltic states a few years earlier. This grand plan has a very large backing. And how we got Russiagate. The same people who backed Libya's overthrow and the Arab Spring acceleration afterward. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:46:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It says everything with how Biden and his band of asshats flew half way around the world to Ukraine, yet never bothered to visit Palestine Ohio. Illegals are being housed in 4 star Hotels at our expense at the same time and given "free" airplane tickets also at our expense, zero of that type of help is handed towards the residents of Palestine either. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:46:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s Christian about genocide, HIV, drug abuse, rape, torture, more genocide, National alcoholism, and bro-rape as part of military hazing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Depends on who you are rooting for. If you are rooting for the globalists who are busy flooding us with third world retards while trying desperately to disarm us, then yeah it would be bad. If you are rooting for the only country in the world who's leader is telling the Globalist "fuck you, we aren't taking your resettled third world retards, gays are unnatural, we are Christian nation, and we will always maintain and be proud of our National Identity", then it would just be like selling a car to your neighbor, then taking it back when he wrecked it. What’s Christian about genocide, HIV, drug abuse, rape, torture, more genocide, National alcoholism, and bro-rape as part of military hazing? I just love that it’s fundie Christians that got tricked into this narrative. I’d guarantee they’d rant about evil Catholics but somehow Russian orthodox is a ok because they got tricked on social media |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:46:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those here won't...they are the globalist free shit army. Everyone should pay but them. They are ok with future generations giving up their retirement wealth but fuck no you pay they aren't giving up shit while the yap there gums being wrong on every international issue to date and yeah fuck the US border vs Ukraine's. They have literally been wrong on EVERY single issue as they make their no skin in the game drama. Watch them and remember and take note as they spew globalist MSM talking points. You will see the same few coming back over and over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No need to argue here guys, If you all feel so strongly about defending a foreign country here is your chance. Put some of your own skin in the game and when you get back Ill let you talk all the shit in the world on me for not wanting to get involved. Until then... https://legionofukraine.com/ Everyone should pay but them. They are ok with future generations giving up their retirement wealth but fuck no you pay they aren't giving up shit while the yap there gums being wrong on every international issue to date and yeah fuck the US border vs Ukraine's. They have literally been wrong on EVERY single issue as they make their no skin in the game drama. Watch them and remember and take note as they spew globalist MSM talking points. You will see the same few coming back over and over. There are Americans on arfcom right now who have been fighting in ukraine. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:47:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was shocking because it was Japan that brought us in. They were angry the US wouldnt supply them oil that they needed for their invasion of China. By July of '41 when the US oil embargo began, Japan had already controlled much of China for nearly a decade. The embargo did guarantee a Japanese campaign in the Dutch East Indies. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:49:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sky is darkening, I can smell the smoke and have never wanted more to live in South America. They've got ants that can bite you three times and you're dead shortly thereafter. That's no way to go out. Unfortunately, I think there will be no escape from this one. Soon. Prepare accordingly. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:51:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isnt it FUNNY how this new breed of "conservatives", to whom everything is a conspiracy, always find a way to make America the bad guy? Russia invades a peaceful neighbor unprovoked and starts to genocide its people and these fucking clowns are CLAMORING to explain why America is at fault. It IS possible to know Putin is the bad guy AND understand why his view would be different. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:54:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine so the US could bring about regime change in Russia? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The same people who brought us "regime change" in Iraq are determined to get "regime change" in Russia...because reasons. Putin isn't Sadaam. And I don't think Russia is in anywhere near as dire a condition as the neocon types would like to believe. So, the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine so the US could bring about regime change in Russia? |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:59:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It must feel great mocking americans misery. You have misery over your sons getting sent to fight in a war that they won’t get sent to fight in? Or because of a made up number of fentanyl OD’s that they could avoid by not doing fentanyl? |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:00:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why exactly did we invade Iraq? Remind me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The same people who brought us "regime change" in Iraq are determined to get "regime change" in Russia...because reasons. Putin isn't Sadaam. And I don't think Russia is in anywhere near as dire a condition as the neocon types would like to believe. So, the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine so the US could bring about regime change in Russia? eViL dOeRs |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:15:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Western Globalists believe strongly in man made global warming. The Western Globalists believe the Artic Polar Ice cap will melt/recede enough to create a northern passage for year round commercial shipping linking Asia and the West. This would be a shipping lane worth trillions of dollars and right now Russia would control most of the shoreline along that passage. Therefore, in the minds of the Globalist a unified Russian Federation as it presently exists cannot continue to exist. The Russian federation is going to have to be broken up into smaller nations. This is a major juncture in human history. Russia is going to be broken and that is going to create issues that will last for hundreds of years before they are fully resolved. It will be as significant as the post WW1 Europe and Middle East changes that took place. However, in chaos is opportunity especially for the insidious and wealthy. So far, the Globalists plans are going extremely well regarding Russia. I believe they will ultimately achieve their goals. Whether those goals will be in our best interests remains to be seen. I can see advantages and extreme disadvantages to the collapse of the Russian Federation. The disadvantages include potentially world ending things, so it's a big gamble with high stakes. Real Game of Thrones stuff folks that's way above your ability to even hope to influence. This whole thing is so far out of our hands that all we can do is really just sit back and watch the show in High Def. Interesting take. Thanks for taking the time to give your opinion. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:34:06 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:36:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: eViL dOeRs Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The same people who brought us "regime change" in Iraq are determined to get "regime change" in Russia...because reasons. Putin isn't Sadaam. And I don't think Russia is in anywhere near as dire a condition as the neocon types would like to believe. So, the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine so the US could bring about regime change in Russia? eViL dOeRs Turrrerrrristtts |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:53:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's some news for you. Zelenskyy did not even speak Ukrainian sufficiently (spoke Russian as his primary language as he is from a Ukrainian city with significant Russian roots) to have a comfortable conversation (granted it might not be a far leap to learn one knowing the other) before he was elected president of Ukraine in 2019. On the platform of drawing closer ties to Russia and ending corruption. So he got a crash course in Ukranian once he got in and suddenly became antagonistic towards Russia (going against his campaign pitch) so I think its safe to say that corruption is still living well in Ukraine. Neocon influence is alive and well there just as it was for the Baltic states a few years earlier. This grand plan has a very large backing. And how we got Russiagate. The same people who backed Libya's overthrow and the Arab Spring acceleration afterward. Ah, yes, it was the Neocons who polluted the minds of Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians and made Russophobes out of them. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 10:57:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only reason the US Government has been in Ukraine for the last decade has been to attempt to destroy Russia as the last remaining Nationalist entity in the world outside the control of the Global regime. They just keep showing us we are correct. Don't worry there will be plenty of dummies in here shortly to tell us how it's a "good thing". |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 10:58:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Borders matter unless they’re next to Russia, right? |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 11:12:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hitler owed Poland a ton of money for the supplies he used to rebuild his war machine. When Poland demanded payment, Hitler invaded. There are more nuances to it, but this was part of it. I had never heard of this, it’s probably in a part of Rise and Fall of the Third Reich I never read. I remember reading that Hitler was close enough to Pilsudski, the leader of Poland at the time, for a time. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 11:14:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You took an experimental vaccine for a disease with a 99.97% survival rate? 4th PNI |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 11:27:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both the USA and Russia are feeding their military industrial complex masters. Only one side made the war happen. I remember when the USA invaded Russia 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:15:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Ukraine has been the US’ strongest ally since the dawn of time. And Russia has been our biggest threat. If necessary, we 100% need to get into a full scale war with Russia. If 10, 20, 50, or even 500 thousand Americans die, then so be it, it’s better than the alternative.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:15:54 AM EDT
[#26]
"the adults are in charge"
Strange how much more dangerous the world is today than it was in 2016, even. Strange. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:18:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the smaller war in Ukraine began in 2014, a member here said that Putin’s grabbing of Crimea was reminiscent of Hitler grabbing territories like Austria and Czechoslovakia, piecemeal, and Putin would likely do the same. Sadly, his prediction turned out to be all too true. Everyone with any familiarity of history knows what followed with Hitler. When he tried to take Poland, France and Britain declared war, and the European theatre of the second world war was opened. Join date does not check out 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:19:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You took an experimental vaccine for a disease with a 99.97% survival rate? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ... make it crystal-clear that the U.S. now intends to destroy Russia. China seems ominously committed to throwing in with Russia. Putin and Xi are one-man-show dictators. Biden is a senile kleptocrat. Harris is so far out of her league that she’s not even playing the same sport. Those are the people running the planet. It’s safe to borrow money from the Mafia to bet that at least one of them will screw this up. The disruption in Ukraine will not remain contained. Remember from your history books how everyone was stunned when WWI just sort of happened like a Doomsday machine? But they shouldn’t have been, because the gathering storm clouds had been obvious to anyone paying attention for years? And remember how the Great Depression began on Black Thursday, just like that, but there had practically been neon signs flashing for years? And remember how WWII just arrived like bad weather one Sunday morning in Hawaii and everyone was shocked - shocked! - but they should have known for years that it was inevitable? Convince me that I'm just paranoid. You took an experimental vaccine for a disease with a 99.97% survival rate?  Attached File Attached FileSickest burn in the history of arf |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:34:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In before the GD contrarians that support Russia and want to nuke US cities. All because a Dem they hate has to always be contradicted per their partisan religion. Keep poking the bear and you war pigs will get your nuked cities. You do realize that nato prevented peace talks which is likely going to result in millions of dead Ukrainians and Russians who live under corrupt governments, but would not want to harm each other except that they've been conscripted. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:36:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine has been the US’ strongest ally since the dawn of time. And Russia has been our biggest threat. If necessary, we 100% need to get into a full scale war with Russia. If 10, 20, 50, or even 500 thousand Americans die, then so be it, it’s better than the alternative. You ever hear the old saying: say the joke once, you're a wit, say it twice, you're a halfwit? How many times have you done this one? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:46:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "the adults are in charge" Strange how much more dangerous the world is today than it was in 2016, even. Strange. Even thought it's a more dangerous world it's absolutely imperative we do nothing to fix it. Nothing. 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:58:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You ever hear the old saying: say the joke once, you're a wit, say it twice, you're a halfwit? How many times have you done this one? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine has been the US’ strongest ally since the dawn of time. And Russia has been our biggest threat. If necessary, we 100% need to get into a full scale war with Russia. If 10, 20, 50, or even 500 thousand Americans die, then so be it, it’s better than the alternative. You ever hear the old saying: say the joke once, you're a wit, say it twice, you're a halfwit? How many times have you done this one? It’s just a copy/paste, similar to the 10s of thousands of posts my fellow UkeBros have made over the last year. Just trying to spread the message and signal my resolve towards seeing orcz killed and Russia destroyed. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 5:31:38 PM EDT
[#33]
North America has enjoyed the best decades in all of human history, but our perfect moment is ending.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 5:43:38 PM EDT
[#34]
The question is how long until Russia and China join together and take advantage of our weak leadership? No doubt the wolves are circling the sheep just waiting for the right moment to have their meal.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 5:44:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia has made it clear they intend to destroy us. Why is turnabout not fair play? Putin could have avoided all of this by simply not invading a foreign country. Us? Don't you mean the globalists in charge.. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 6:16:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you smoking crack? Have you been living under a rock? How have you not seen some of the pics/videos of everything from M4 Carbines to Javelins, m777 howitzers, and HIMARS in use in Ukraine. I don’t think this is the dumbest post in this thread, but this is dumb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Many cities are already destroyed, might as well clear out the ferals so the land can be productive again. And maybe the spike proteins are making OP paranoid. Watch what they do, not what they say. Whatever money they claim to send to voldimor doesn't seem to be making it to any military effort but there's a lot of activity beneath the surface happening w.r.t. china. Are you smoking crack? Have you been living under a rock? How have you not seen some of the pics/videos of everything from M4 Carbines to Javelins, m777 howitzers, and HIMARS in use in Ukraine. I don’t think this is the dumbest post in this thread, but this is dumb. I think your misery may not be solely a result of your residence; idiocy probably pays a large part. Yes, I've seen pics and video, much of which looks like stock footage of field testing of equipment. In other videos I see an explosion here and there, a burning tank or two, some destroyed/crumbling buildings. Probably the most significant damage I've seen is of a somewhat damaged bridge. Frankly I don't see anything to convince me that there's a significant war being conducted by either side. But I'm willing to consider more evidence if people want to post videos - it better be convincing though, not a bunch of concerned looking talking heads and a few small fires in some rural area that looks like any largely abandoned farm community in this country. And for the amount supposedly being spent, 67 billion or so, it seems likely this effort is mostly grift. Sucks that people are too stupid to think critically. https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022 |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:36:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Send your own kids to die you piece of shit warhawks. Not my continent not my fucking problem. "And son of a bitch you know they fired the prosecutor" Who is sending American troops? Anyone? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:39:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No need to argue here guys, If you all feel so strongly about defending a foreign country here is your chance. Put some of your own skin in the game and when you get back Ill let you talk all the shit in the world on me for not wanting to get involved. Until then... https://legionofukraine.com/ Have you volunteered to go down to the border or send your kids? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:42:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sky is darkening, I can smell the smoke and have never wanted more to live in South America. Venezuela is good this time of year 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:47:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4th PNI 5th PNI still a Covid shot mandate refuser |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:47:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep poking the bear and you war pigs will get your nuked cities. You do realize that nato prevented peace talks which is likely going to result in millions of dead Ukrainians and Russians who live under corrupt governments, but would not want to harm each other except that they've been conscripted. We must surrender our Ar15s to avoid poking The fed gov. They have nukes |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:54:11 PM EDT
[#42]
The wall, it has a chair against it!
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:55:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Conservatives for Communism. ??
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:19:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, yes, it was the Neocons who polluted the minds of Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians and made Russophobes out of them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's some news for you. Zelenskyy did not even speak Ukrainian sufficiently (spoke Russian as his primary language as he is from a Ukrainian city with significant Russian roots) to have a comfortable conversation (granted it might not be a far leap to learn one knowing the other) before he was elected president of Ukraine in 2019. On the platform of drawing closer ties to Russia and ending corruption. So he got a crash course in Ukranian once he got in and suddenly became antagonistic towards Russia (going against his campaign pitch) so I think its safe to say that corruption is still living well in Ukraine. Neocon influence is alive and well there just as it was for the Baltic states a few years earlier. This grand plan has a very large backing. And how we got Russiagate. The same people who backed Libya's overthrow and the Arab Spring acceleration afterward. Ah, yes, it was the Neocons who polluted the minds of Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians and made Russophobes out of them. I'm sure there is an underlying hatred for Russia, having a large German ethnic population and a minority Russian one, but the fact is that there was a hard push to get them under the NATO umbrella. While antagonistic, this is during a period when the US has significant influence in building up Russia's fossil fuel industry, as well as exploiting minerals and other natural resources available. While bordering states, there is still a water barrier there, and the factored-in combined resources are offset by Western efforts to get petroleum products from Russia to market. Lots of pipes run from Russia across their borders, including an interconnectedness still existing from the economic and geographic conditions of the area. Putin and his buddies made mega-rich in the past thirty years. An acceptable tradeoff then, perhaps, given the circumstances. Well, things are different now with Ukraine. There's a long history of what is now Ukraine and what used to be Russian lands (and a claim that it still is so using the NATO standard of minority populations being a majority in given areas). And significant economic interconnectedness between the two still exists with gas lines as well. So this may have been the last straw. But one thing has been constant. Russia saying for thirty years that Western Euro encroachment would not make for happy times. I'm not unsympathetic toward the common Ukrainians. I am not pro-Putin. I am against this move by the EU that is burdening us with their corporate-capitalist actions, their bill foisted onto American taxpayers while reducing Ukraine to rubble and killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. the real lessons of Ukraine after 1991 How Ukraine was constructed since 1654 |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:24:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: North America has enjoyed the best decades in all of human history, but our perfect moment is ending. It is being brought to an end by a fucked up economic theory transformed into a cultural one, through the captured internal institutions of a formerly economic and enlightened government-proven system, to be replaced by that which has a 100% track record of total devastation for all who adopt it's disproven theories. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:26:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question is how long until Russia and China join together and take advantage of our weak leadership? No doubt the wolves are circling the sheep just waiting for the right moment to have their meal. As long as we have 'equity' 'diversity' and a dozen or so other cue words of Marxist cultural domination it's all good. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:30:45 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:31:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nukes almost flew in '93 over a misID!  |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:55:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You took an experimental vaccine for a disease with a 99.97% survival rate? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ... make it crystal-clear that the U.S. now intends to destroy Russia. China seems ominously committed to throwing in with Russia. Putin and Xi are one-man-show dictators. Biden is a senile kleptocrat. Harris is so far out of her league that she’s not even playing the same sport. Those are the people running the planet. It’s safe to borrow money from the Mafia to bet that at least one of them will screw this up. The disruption in Ukraine will not remain contained. Remember from your history books how everyone was stunned when WWI just sort of happened like a Doomsday machine? But they shouldn’t have been, because the gathering storm clouds had been obvious to anyone paying attention for years? And remember how the Great Depression began on Black Thursday, just like that, but there had practically been neon signs flashing for years? And remember how WWII just arrived like bad weather one Sunday morning in Hawaii and everyone was shocked - shocked! - but they should have known for years that it was inevitable? Convince me that I'm just paranoid. You took an experimental vaccine for a disease with a 99.97% survival rate? And artistically posted incessantly how bad the rest of us were for saying "hell naw dawg, I'm good." |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 10:58:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: ... make it crystal-clear that the U.S. now intends to destroy Russia. China seems ominously committed to throwing in with Russia. Putin and Xi are one-man-show dictators. Biden is a senile kleptocrat. Harris is so far out of her league that she’s not even playing the same sport. Those are the people running the planet. It’s safe to borrow money from the Mafia to bet that at least one of them will screw this up. The disruption in Ukraine will not remain contained. Remember from your history books how everyone was stunned when WWI just sort of happened like a Doomsday machine? But they shouldn’t have been, because the gathering storm clouds had been obvious to anyone paying attention for years? And remember how the Great Depression began on Black Thursday, just like that, but there had practically been neon signs flashing for years? And remember how WWII just arrived like bad weather one Sunday morning in Hawaii and everyone was shocked - shocked! - but they should have known for years that it was inevitable? Convince me that I'm just paranoid. LOL no 
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