User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 9:53:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fine. It’s socialism. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is not welfare. Do you think Health Insurance is welfare? You get coverage and 3 moths later you are in the hospital racking up a $250,000 bill due to some previously unknown medical issue. Is that welfare? You sure didn’t pay $250k in premiums. Fine. It’s socialism. It's is that pure and simple. "But muh trust fund!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:10:45 PM EDT
[#2]
The QALY will fix all.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:31:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you know SS has a positive balance of close to a trillion dollars? The SS trust fund is by law invested in low paying government securities. When people talk about SS going broke in ten years, they are saying the trust fund will be exhausted. SS would still pay about 80% of your benefit amount out of current SS taxes. SS benefits are not paid from general tax revenues. I'm going to pick two bones with this post. First, the current positive balance doesn't mean sh*t. What matters is the time it takes to exhaust the money, and that's about 2032. Eight years. Or let's say 10 years because I'm a generous man and I trust the govt. The outgo exceeds the input, forever after. What then? That leads me to.... Second, SS not being paid out of the general revenue becomes moot. The imbalance will be made up by printing, which is exactly how the current deficits are papered over. "What difference does it make?TM" They are just two different empty pockets on the same economic corpse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:38:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to pick two bones with this post. First, the current positive balance doesn't mean sh*t. What matters is the time it takes to exhaust the money, and that's about 2032. Eight years. Or let's say 10 years because I'm a generous man and I trust the govt. The outgo exceeds the input, forever after. What then? That leads me to.... Second, SS not being paid out of the general revenue becomes moot. The imbalance will be made up by printing, which is exactly how the current deficits are papered over. "What difference does it make?TM" They are just two different empty pockets on the same economic corpse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did you know SS has a positive balance of close to a trillion dollars? The SS trust fund is by law invested in low paying government securities. When people talk about SS going broke in ten years, they are saying the trust fund will be exhausted. SS would still pay about 80% of your benefit amount out of current SS taxes. SS benefits are not paid from general tax revenues. I'm going to pick two bones with this post. First, the current positive balance doesn't mean sh*t. What matters is the time it takes to exhaust the money, and that's about 2032. Eight years. Or let's say 10 years because I'm a generous man and I trust the govt. The outgo exceeds the input, forever after. What then? That leads me to.... Second, SS not being paid out of the general revenue becomes moot. The imbalance will be made up by printing, which is exactly how the current deficits are papered over. "What difference does it make?TM" They are just two different empty pockets on the same economic corpse. That guy is just deliousinal about Social Security and can't admit to the drain it is. I'm going to guess he currently draws OASI. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:40:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flat 21% tax is the only REAL way to tackle the issue... but poors don't love their country enough to pay for it. meh I like the flat/fair tax but it isn't the only solution. Social security would be solvent if they did away with the cap on it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:41:31 PM EDT
[#6]
For anyone curious about the "Trust Funds" the information is easily available on the internet.
 Attached FileSS Report  Attached FileHI Report |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:43:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: meh I like the flat/fair tax but it isn't the only solution. Social security would be solvent if they did away with the cap on it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Flat 21% tax is the only REAL way to tackle the issue... but poors don't love their country enough to pay for it. meh I like the flat/fair tax but it isn't the only solution. Social security would be solvent if they did away with the cap on it. Eventually you run out of other people's money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:47:27 PM EDT
[#8]
It still ceases to amaze me the number of people who fall for this bullshit.
Even the most moon-eyed socialist knows even the rumor of “401k confiscation/redistribution” would 100% tank the US, and with it, the global economy. It will never happen in our lifetimes. Ever. Of course you can cash out, pay the penalties and put everything in Trump EFTs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:47:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: meh I like the flat/fair tax but it isn't the only solution. Social security would be solvent if they did away with the cap on it. Because the answer to the wasteful government program is to give it more money? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:52:13 PM EDT
[#10]
For anyone who can't read a simple chart or look at actual budget outlays versus revenues; it's simple, at our current level Mandatory Spending(Things like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid) + interest payments outpace or are near balanced with our entire revenue stream. This means the entire discretionary budget (defense and everything else) is being borrowed. You could slash 100% of discretionary spending and we'd still be broke. Because current or soon to be Social Security recipients say "Fuck You, Pay Me". No dream of the "Trust Funds" is going to change this. You cannot tax your way out of this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:52:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It still ceases to amaze me the number of people who fall for this bullshit. Even the most moon-eyed socialist knows even the rumor of “401k confiscation/redistribution” would 100% tank the US, and with it, the global economy. It will never happen in our lifetimes. Ever. Of course you can cash out, pay the penalties and put everything in Trump EFTs. Oh, it wouldn't be redistributed from everyone. There would be a means test. People above a certain income pay an additional tax on their 401k gains. Why? Divide and conquer. Just coincidentally, those falling under the new tax would be nowhere near a majority, so the majority votes to tax them to "save" the program for the majority. I mean, who wouldn't want to do that? The program is in trouble, and the "rich" can afford to pay. Impossible, you say? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 10:56:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Look, it's a fresh SS thread. How many is it this week? I forget...
I worked my whole life. Paid into SS to fund the retirements of the Lost, Greatest, Silent, and Boomer generations. On the promise that SS would be there for me also. Now that I have am collecting it, there is a lot of complaining going one about how greedy us Boomers are. How it isn't fair. You need to tax my Traditional and my Roth. You need to eliminate my SS. It's greed on my part that I live alone and have massive equity in a 4/2 home. Millennials ... I raised one. Tell you what I told her. You want fair honey? It's in August at the fairground. You want me to take a cut if not eliminate SS? Put ALL Federal pensions and welfare on the table also. Until then...  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:03:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look, it's a fresh SS thread. How many is it this week? I forget... I worked my whole life. Paid into SS to fund the retirements of the Lost, Greatest, Silent, and Boomer generations. On the promise that SS would be there for me also. Now that I have am collecting it, there is a lot of complaining going one about how greedy us Boomers are. How it isn't fair. You need to tax my Traditional and my Roth. You need to eliminate my SS. It's greed on my part that I live alone and have massive equity in a 4/2 home. Millennials ... I raised one. Tell you what I told her. You want fair honey? It's in August at the fairground. You want me to take a cut if not eliminate SS? Put ALL Federal pensions and welfare on the table also. Until then... /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/beathorse-20.gif https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.724267353.7047/pp,504x498-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u4.jpg Quit diverting your eyes and hiding yourself from the truth. The fact that you were stolen from does not mean you have a right to have your proxy thug steal from someone else and give it to you. Get over yourself. You're not better than anyone else. You have no more right to recieve stolen goods than anyone else. Greed has nothing to do with it. The fact that people want to steal other stuff from you has nothing to do with it. SS is and always was a ponzi scheme. Except done with taxdollars. Which makes it 100% pure theft. People are incredibly resistant to thinking about stuff when doing so might incur some mental suffering. ETA: Be prepared to see more and more of these threads as the system goes into it's inevitable collapse. Don't expect anyone to buy your rationalizations. It will not be pretty for anyone involved.  ETA2: The grating reality that this boils down to nothing more than "The government stole from me. Now it's your turn to have the government steal from you and give to me. That's our tradition!" ... Or more brutally: "I was stolen from. That means I get to steal from others!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:12:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quit diverting your eyes and hiding yourself from the truth. The fact that you were stolen from does not mean you have a right to have your proxy thug steal from someone else and give it to you. Get over yourself. You're not better than anyone else. You have no more right to recieve stolen goods than anyone else. Greed has nothing to do with it. The fact that people want to steal other stuff from you has nothing to do with it. SS is and always was a ponzi scheme. Except done with taxdollars. Which makes it 100% pure theft. People are incredibly resistant to thinking about stuff when doing so might incur some mental suffering. ETA: Be prepared to see more and more of these threads as the system goes into it's inevitable collapse. Don't expect anyone to buy your rationalizations. It will not be pretty for anyone involved. You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizens pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:15:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizen pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quit diverting your eyes and hiding yourself from the truth. The fact that you were stolen from does not mean you have a right to have your proxy thug steal from someone else and give it to you. Get over yourself. You're not better than anyone else. You have no more right to recieve stolen goods than anyone else. Greed has nothing to do with it. The fact that people want to steal other stuff from you has nothing to do with it. SS is and always was a ponzi scheme. Except done with taxdollars. Which makes it 100% pure theft. People are incredibly resistant to thinking about stuff when doing so might incur some mental suffering. ETA: Be prepared to see more and more of these threads as the system goes into it's inevitable collapse. Don't expect anyone to buy your rationalizations. It will not be pretty for anyone involved. You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizen pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. Wrong. SS is a tax. There is no contractual right to a benefit in exchange for paying the tax. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:17:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want me to take a cut if not eliminate SS? Put ALL Federal pensions and welfare on the table also. Until then... I would be all for ending 87% of welfare. Also end Fed pensions in the same manner as SS retirement benefits. Make everyone pay back that bullshit COVID socialist money. All of these are outdated and failed experiments. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizens pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. Show me the contract we voluntarily signed. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:20:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. SS is a tax. There is no contractual right to a benefit in exchange for paying the tax. Wrong. There is a contract based on age of the recipient, past wages, and taxes paid. There are tables published showing the monthly payout. The govt. publishes these tables every year. I refuse to believe you don't know that. Yes, it is funded by a tax levied by the govt., which is also the manager of the program. So what? In what way does this qualify as "theft"? Words have meaning. "Theft" is a word. It has a meaning, a legal meaning. SS tax is not theft. Maybe you feel that way about it, but your feelz don't qualify as legal arguments. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:21:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me the contract we voluntarily signed. You took a job in which SS tax was taken from your paycheck. Unless someone forced you to take that job, it was voluntary. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:22:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizen pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quit diverting your eyes and hiding yourself from the truth. The fact that you were stolen from does not mean you have a right to have your proxy thug steal from someone else and give it to you. Get over yourself. You're not better than anyone else. You have no more right to recieve stolen goods than anyone else. Greed has nothing to do with it. The fact that people want to steal other stuff from you has nothing to do with it. SS is and always was a ponzi scheme. Except done with taxdollars. Which makes it 100% pure theft. People are incredibly resistant to thinking about stuff when doing so might incur some mental suffering. ETA: Be prepared to see more and more of these threads as the system goes into it's inevitable collapse. Don't expect anyone to buy your rationalizations. It will not be pretty for anyone involved. You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizen pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. Hunting jews and tossing them into death camps was called legal. I don't think you'd call it legal. Don't try and cover your butt with laywers and legislators. Theft: taking what you have no right to take. The government has no right to take anything from me that was not gotten by me immorally. Furthermore, they are not even taking it by consent. They are not even taking it to do a job that governments SHOULD do (give justice to theives, those who do frauds, physically harm others, things of that sort). (eta: and these are the only thing the government has any right to tax us for) Also "I know nothing about the law." Ok. How do you know that? You certainly aren't just using that as a phrase to try and shut me up because I'm saying stuff you don't like, are you? You must know what I know about the law, if not, you had to have made that statement up. Tell everyone what I know about the law, and how you got that knowledge. As for "contract between the citizen and the state" I suspect it might fall on it's face there due to bein unconscionable, rediculously one-sided. And ... beyond that ... "we contracted to do this (I never contracted with the government to do squat)" is an "IS" ... a thing that simply exists. From which you can never get an "Ought." Annuity: It's not, if you care to use this definition: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/what-is-an-annuity.asp Annuities are insurance contracts that promise to pay you regular income immediately or in the future. A deferred annuity has an accumulation phase followed by a disbursement (annuitization) phase; an immediate annuity converts a lump sum into cash flows from day one. There is no accumulation phase. If you count the taxes being paid in as accumulation, stop and think what the government would do to someone running an "annuity" where the accumulation phase was ... sending out their letters backed by threat of abuse and runiation of life if you didn't pay them what they asked. And they spend your money as it goes into this "annuity." Your money is not saved. You get a promise that they'll pay you with someone else's tax monies in the future. "screw you, pay me" will never be right. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:23:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. SS is a tax. There is no contractual right to a benefit in exchange for paying the tax. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quit diverting your eyes and hiding yourself from the truth. The fact that you were stolen from does not mean you have a right to have your proxy thug steal from someone else and give it to you. Get over yourself. You're not better than anyone else. You have no more right to recieve stolen goods than anyone else. Greed has nothing to do with it. The fact that people want to steal other stuff from you has nothing to do with it. SS is and always was a ponzi scheme. Except done with taxdollars. Which makes it 100% pure theft. People are incredibly resistant to thinking about stuff when doing so might incur some mental suffering. ETA: Be prepared to see more and more of these threads as the system goes into it's inevitable collapse. Don't expect anyone to buy your rationalizations. It will not be pretty for anyone involved. You keep tossing around this word "theft". You know nothing about the law. SS in no way meets the legal definition of "theft." SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. The citizen pay into it now for payments later on. It's basically an annuity, albeit a badly managed one. Get over yourself. True story: I do not collect SS and never will, even though I am well into my SS years. In fact, I worked for several years and contributed $ into the SS program, and I will never get it back. It's "stranded." I got over it and haven't lost a moment's sleep because I have a life. Wrong. SS is a tax. There is no contractual right to a benefit in exchange for paying the tax. Yep. And if you drop dead before it's time to collect, there's no fund there of your monies for anyone to do anything with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:23:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hunting jews and tossing them into death camps was called legal. I don't think you'd call it legal. Don't try and cover your butt with laywers and legislators. Theft: taking what you have no right to take. The government has no right to take anything from me that were not gotten by me immorally. Furthermore, they are not even taking it by consent. They are not even taking it to do a job that governments SHOULD do (give justice to theives, those who do frauds, physically harm others, things of that sort). Also "I know nothing about the law." Ok. How do you know that? You certainly aren't just using that as a phrase to try and shut me up because I'm saying stuff you don't like, are you? You must know what I know about the law, you'd have to to make that statement up. Tell everyone what I know about the law, and how you got that knowledge. As for "contract between the citizen and the state" I suspect it might fall on it's face there due to bein unconscionable, rediculously one-sided. And ... beyond that ... "we contracted to do this (I never contracted with the government to do squat)" is an "IS" ... a thing that simply exists. From which you can never get an "Ought." Annuity: It's not, if you care to use this definition: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/what-is-an-annuity.asp Annuities are insurance contracts that promise to pay you regular income immediately or in the future. A deferred annuity has an accumulation phase followed by a disbursement (annuitization) phase; an immediate annuity converts a lump sum into cash flows from day one. There is no accumulation phase. If you count the taxes being paid in as accumulation, stop and think what the government would do to someone running an "annuity" where the accumulation phase was ... sending out their letters backed by threat of abuse and runiation of life if you didn't pay them what they asked. And they spend your money as it goes into this "annuity." Your money is not saved. You get a promise that they'll pay you with someone else's tax monies in the future. "screw you, pay me" will never be right. "SNORT* So, the old "Nazis killing the Jews" argument? You really have gone off the deep end on this, haven't you?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:24:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. There is a contract based on age of the recipient, past wages, and taxes paid. There are tables published showing the monthly payout. The gpovt. publishes these tables every year. I refuse to believe you don't know that. Yes, it is funded by a tax levied by the govt., which is also the manager of the program. So what? In what way does this qualify as "theft"? Words have meaning. "Theft" is a word. It has a meaning, a legal meaning. SS tax is not theft. Maybe you feel that way about it, but your feelz don't qualify as legal arguments. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wrong. SS is a tax. There is no contractual right to a benefit in exchange for paying the tax. Wrong. There is a contract based on age of the recipient, past wages, and taxes paid. There are tables published showing the monthly payout. The gpovt. publishes these tables every year. I refuse to believe you don't know that. Yes, it is funded by a tax levied by the govt., which is also the manager of the program. So what? In what way does this qualify as "theft"? Words have meaning. "Theft" is a word. It has a meaning, a legal meaning. SS tax is not theft. Maybe you feel that way about it, but your feelz don't qualify as legal arguments. It is not a contract. It is a welfare program. The Supreme Court ruled as such that contributions do not stipulate you must receive a benefit like an annuity or a private pension. I am very well versed in contract law. It is nothing of the sort. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:25:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about we just abolish social security. Kthxbye. Because it's a slush fund for government to give hand outs to certain groups. It's oppression by taxation for some of us. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:25:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 401ks and IRAs tax benefits are nothing to the truly wealthy. When leftists galk about the rich they allways mean the middle class. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:26:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. And if you drop dead before it's time to collect, there's no fund there of your monies for anyone to do anything with. If you are married, your surviving spouse can collect your amount if it was higher. Did you know that MANY annuities offer no benefits to survivors after you die? Anything left is kept by the insurance co. That's how they make the actuarial tables work. They know that a certain % will never collect, or may collect only a minor amount before they die. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:27:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You took a job in which SS tax was taken from your paycheck. Unless someone forced you to take that job, it was voluntary. No, I want to see the contract I signed with the government regarding SS. A guy with gun to my head saying “Pay me if you want to earn money” is called extortion. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:27:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "SNORT* So, the old "Nazis killing the Jews" argument? You really have gone off the deep end on this, haven't you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hunting jews and tossing them into death camps was called legal. I don't think you'd call it legal. Don't try and cover your butt with laywers and legislators. Theft: taking what you have no right to take. The government has no right to take anything from me that were not gotten by me immorally. Furthermore, they are not even taking it by consent. They are not even taking it to do a job that governments SHOULD do (give justice to theives, those who do frauds, physically harm others, things of that sort). Also "I know nothing about the law." Ok. How do you know that? You certainly aren't just using that as a phrase to try and shut me up because I'm saying stuff you don't like, are you? You must know what I know about the law, you'd have to to make that statement up. Tell everyone what I know about the law, and how you got that knowledge. As for "contract between the citizen and the state" I suspect it might fall on it's face there due to bein unconscionable, rediculously one-sided. And ... beyond that ... "we contracted to do this (I never contracted with the government to do squat)" is an "IS" ... a thing that simply exists. From which you can never get an "Ought." Annuity: It's not, if you care to use this definition: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/what-is-an-annuity.asp Annuities are insurance contracts that promise to pay you regular income immediately or in the future. A deferred annuity has an accumulation phase followed by a disbursement (annuitization) phase; an immediate annuity converts a lump sum into cash flows from day one. There is no accumulation phase. If you count the taxes being paid in as accumulation, stop and think what the government would do to someone running an "annuity" where the accumulation phase was ... sending out their letters backed by threat of abuse and runiation of life if you didn't pay them what they asked. And they spend your money as it goes into this "annuity." Your money is not saved. You get a promise that they'll pay you with someone else's tax monies in the future. "screw you, pay me" will never be right. "SNORT* So, the old "Nazis killing the Jews" argument? You really have gone off the deep end on this, haven't you? DIVERT! DIVERT! Drag out the red herrings, I don't know how to answer this argument honestly and directly! *Yank open the draw of "verbal tricks I have seen politicians pull on the news and grab something from it.* |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:27:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SS *IS* a contract between citizens and the U.S. govt. Nope. Not even close. Show me the contract I signed. Oh that's right, I was issued a gov SS number, at birth. Numbered like property, like a slave. Were my payments into SS given voluntarily and freely? Nope, they are auto deducted from my paycheck. So I can use an exit clause, opt out, and get the money back right? No. Stolen. Show me where the government has specifically garaunteed X amount benefit for my payments? No that's not a thing either, it's a mystery what I'll receive... Whatever daddy gov deems fair. At best, it's like a contract with the mob. If you ran a business with contracts like that, it would be illegal and the government would lock you up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:28:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are married, your surviving spouse can collect your amount if it was higher. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep. And if you drop dead before it's time to collect, there's no fund there of your monies for anyone to do anything with. If you are married, your surviving spouse can collect your amount if it was higher. Do the mental addition. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:28:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is not a contract. It is a welfare program. The Supreme Court ruled as such that contributions do not stipulate you must receive a benefit like an annuity or a private pension. I am very well versed in contract law. It is nothing of the sort. Did you know that an annuity or private pension is only as good as the company backing it? And, that in the case of bankruptcy of the insurance co., you get nothing? There are no "guarantees" greater than the full faith and credit of the insurance co. You haven't read the fine print, have you? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:29:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I want to see the contract I signed with the government regarding SS. A guy with gun to my head saying “Pay me if you want to earn money” is called extortion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You took a job in which SS tax was taken from your paycheck. Unless someone forced you to take that job, it was voluntary. No, I want to see the contract I signed with the government regarding SS. A guy with gun to my head saying “Pay me if you want to earn money” is called extortion. No, don't you see, it's not extortion. Because the thug that did it to you, did it to them. ETA: and here we sit, flaming each other, doing anything BUT pushing for those who continue the system to stop it, and make what shreds of restitution they can. Such a deal for our federal overlords. They get to steal from us. They get to spend the stuff they steal from us. If anyone complains about it, the people our federal overlords pay off with funds they took by force or threat of force (that is what taxes are) will verbally abuse and complain at the others who point out that they are being extorted and stolen from. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:29:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They can take my 401k out of my cold dead hands. I will go to war over this. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:30:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I want to see the contract I signed with the government regarding SS. A guy with gun to my head saying “Pay me if you want to earn money” is called extortion. The contract was you cashing the paychecks with the SS tax taken out, and you staying on that job. You had no gun to your head. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:30:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At best, it's like a contract with the mob. If you ran a business with contracts like that, it would be illegal and the government would lock you up. But when they do it, it’s for “the public good”. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:31:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Always a good reminder that legality and morality are not equivalent.
Dressing it up in all the John Locke-isms and Rousseau-isms you want doesn't change this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:31:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, and where does that come from? Do the mental addition. It comes from the contributions of the dead spouse (but not beyond 2032 +/-!), which will never be collected by the dead spouse. But it "may" be collected by the surviving spouse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:33:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, don't you see, it's not extortion. Because the thug that did it to you, did it to them. You can say that about any tax. Once again, are you familiar with the legal definition of "theft"? We seem to have reached an impasse where you don't recognize your own use of the word. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:33:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, don't you see, it's not extortion. Because the thug that did it to you, did it to them. ETA: and here we sit, flaming each other, doing anything BUT pushing for those who continue the system to stop it, and make what shreds of restitution they can. Such a deal for our federal overlords. They get to steal from us. They get to spend the stuff they steal from us. If anyone complains about it, the people our federal overlords pay off with funds they took by force or threat of force (that is what taxes are) will verbally abuse and complain at the others who point out that they are being extorted and stolen from. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/a9/34/bba934e6a6f1f1b375c0c68ded6785a9.jpg You seem...emotional. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:34:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The contract was you cashing the paychecks with the SS tax taken out, and you staying on that job. You had no gun to your head. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, I want to see the contract I signed with the government regarding SS. A guy with gun to my head saying “Pay me if you want to earn money” is called extortion. The contract was you cashing the paychecks with the SS tax taken out, and you staying on that job. You had no gun to your head. What about cashing a paycheck means that you consent to someone taking from it? Tell us. "The victim didn't fight back, so clearly they consented." 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:35:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about cashing a paycheck means that you consent to someone taking from it? Tell us. "The victim didn't fight back, so clearly they consented." Now you're a victim! And the Jew-killing Nazis! LOL! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:35:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It comes from the contributions of the dead spouse (but not beyond 2032 +/-!), which will never be collected by the dead spouse. But it "may" be collected by the surviving spouse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, and where does that come from? Do the mental addition. It comes from the contributions of the dead spouse (but not beyond 2032 +/-!), which will never be collected by the dead spouse. But it "may" be collected by the surviving spouse. It does? Say, where are those funds that they took from the dead spouse? Surely they saved them? Invested them? They didn't instead send them off into the pot to be spent and issue a promise that they'd pay you with someone else's taxes? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:36:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The contract was you cashing the paychecks with the SS tax taken out, and you staying on that job. You had no gun to your head. So there’s no actual contract. Duly noted. What was the phrase you used earlier? “Words have meanings.” |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:36:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you know that an annuity or private pension is only as good as the company backing it? And, that in the case of bankruptcy of the insurance co., you get nothing? There are no "guarantees" greater than the full faith and credit of the insurance co. You haven't read the fine print, have you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is not a contract. It is a welfare program. The Supreme Court ruled as such that contributions do not stipulate you must receive a benefit like an annuity or a private pension. I am very well versed in contract law. It is nothing of the sort. Did you know that an annuity or private pension is only as good as the company backing it? And, that in the case of bankruptcy of the insurance co., you get nothing? There are no "guarantees" greater than the full faith and credit of the insurance co. You haven't read the fine print, have you? I have. Including 42 U.S.C. § 1304 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:37:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: You seem...emotional. Quoted: Now you're a victim! And the Jew-killing Nazis! LOL! Anything. Anything at all but directly and openly address the content of what was said. It doesn't matter what I say or if it's true. You don't like it, so you won't engage with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:38:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So there’s no actual contract. Duly noted. What was the phrase you used earlier? “Words mean things.” The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that.  SS also sends a statement every year spelling out the benefits incl. Medicare, etc. If you want to argue that it's not a "real contract" knock yourself out. So, let me ask you this: What is the definition of a "contract", and how is it enforceable if the insurer is broke? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:39:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything. Anything at all but directly and openly address the content of what was said. It doesn't matter what I say or if it's true. You don't like it, so you won't engage with it. You must first demonstrate that you know the meaning of the word "theft." Then we can talk. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:40:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The contract was you cashing the paychecks with the SS tax taken out, and you staying on that job. You had no gun to your head. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, I want to see the contract I signed with the government regarding SS. A guy with gun to my head saying “Pay me if you want to earn money” is called extortion. The contract was you cashing the paychecks with the SS tax taken out, and you staying on that job. You had no gun to your head. Do you honestly not know that there are very few legitimate ways to avoid paying SS tax? And yes there's a gun to the head of anyone caught avoiding it? Are you really then going to stick by your ignorant statement that choosing to earn an honest living, the only way you can, implies consent with a bullshit program?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:40:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So there’s no actual contract. Duly noted. What was the phrase you used earlier? “Words mean things.” The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that. I never agreed to any of that. Nor will I ever, because it's a ponzi scheme, and the government has no right to run even an otherwise legit plan of that sort. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2024 11:41:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and here we sit, flaming each other, doing anything BUT pushing for those who continue the system to stop it, and make what shreds of restitution they can. Well if we did that, how would the boomas get their SS payments back with interest?
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
