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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:42:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You must first demonstrate that you know the meaning of the word "theft." Then we can talk. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anything. Anything at all but directly and openly address the content of what was said. It doesn't matter what I say or if it's true. You don't like it, so you won't engage with it. You must first demonstrate that you know the meaning of the word "theft." Then we can talk. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bipartisan-agreement-that-the-rich-s-401ks-must-be-destroyed-for-social-security-to-thrive/5-2705458/?r=-1&page=6&anc=107870001#i107869625 Theft: taking what you have no right to take. Ok. Now you have to honestly interact. Your turn. (hint: slow down enough to read my posts till you comprehend them). |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:43:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well if we did that, how would the boomas get their SS payments back with interest?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: and here we sit, flaming each other, doing anything BUT pushing for those who continue the system to stop it, and make what shreds of restitution they can. Well if we did that, how would the boomas get their SS payments back with interest? I don't know where the system will collapse age wise. The thieves that run the scheme will run it till it comes apart under them. They're just hoping and betting that it won't fall apart while they are in power. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:43:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So there’s no actual contract. Duly noted. What was the phrase you used earlier? “Words mean things.” The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that. What you are describing is an edict, not a contract. As you mentioned earlier, your SS masters, whose boots you love to lick, issue new edicts as they see fit. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:43:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about we just abolish Kthxbye. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:44:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you honestly not know that there are very few legitimate ways to avoid paying SS tax? And yes there's a gun to the head of anyone caught avoiding it? Are you really then going to stick by your ignorant statement that choosing to earn an honest living, the only way you can, implies consent with a bullshit program?  I spent a career not paying into SS, except for a few early years as a taxpayer as explained above. I have a pension that makes me exempt from SS, but it carries other risks. Namely, it isn't "insured" by an outfit that is legally allowed to print money by the Trillion$. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:44:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that. SS also sends a statement every year spelling out the benefits incl. Medicare, etc. If you want to argue that it's not a "real contract" knock yourself out. So, let me ask you this: What is the definition of a "contract", and how is it enforceable if the insurer is broke? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So there’s no actual contract. Duly noted. What was the phrase you used earlier? “Words mean things.” The "contract" is spelled out on the SS web site. It tells you EXACTLY what you can expect to get, down to the penny, based on your age, earnings history, years of contributions (read: taxes) etc. I would post a link but I'm gonna make you do your own homework on that because I'm a disciplinarian like that. SS also sends a statement every year spelling out the benefits incl. Medicare, etc. If you want to argue that it's not a "real contract" knock yourself out. So, let me ask you this: What is the definition of a "contract", and how is it enforceable if the insurer is broke? You mean this expectation down to the penny?  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:44:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You crazy SOB I’m in
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:45:58 PM EDT
[#8]
my big beef is that you can't name a Beneficiary to SS if you should die.my wife or son should get my full share either immediately upon my death or a set age of say 45 or 50.
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:47:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bipartisan-agreement-that-the-rich-s-401ks-must-be-destroyed-for-social-security-to-thrive/5-2705458/?r=-1&page=6&anc=107870001#i107869625 Theft: taking what you have no right to take. Ok. Now you have to honestly interact. Your turn. (hint: slow down enough to read my posts till you comprehend them). "The legal term theft is a very broad term in that it applies to a wide range of crimes, all of which consist of taking of someone’s property, with the intent of permanently depriving him of it." https://legaldictionary.net/theft/ Further, the courts have ruled that SS and many other taxes are legal. Just because it hurts your feelz doesn't make it illegal, or immoral. It just hurts your feelz, that's all. Of course, you're entitled to your feelz, but I'm not obligated by your feelz. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:48:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What you are describing is an edict, not a contract. As you mentioned earlier, your SS masters, whose boots you love to lick, issue new edicts as they see fit. I will never collect SS, but you will. Now, who's your daddy? 
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:48:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For anyone who can't read a simple chart or look at actual budget outlays versus revenues; it's simple, at our current level Mandatory Spending(Things like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid) + interest payments outpace or are near balanced with our entire revenue stream. This means the entire discretionary budget (defense and everything else) is being borrowed. You could slash 100% of discretionary spending and we'd still be broke. Because current or soon to be Social Security recipients say "Fuck You, Pay Me". No dream of the "Trust Funds" is going to change this. You cannot tax your way out of this. You may not be able to tax your way out of it, but you CAN cut spending. Want to cut my SS 33%? I could live with that. My Traditional and Roth will get me by. Military pensions - on the table. Federal LEO pensions - on the table. House and Senate pensions - on the table. Welfare - on the table. Quit funding state pension systems. Farm subsidies. I could go on. Live within your means. If I'm going to take a big ol' bite of this shit sandwich, I want to make sure all my friends and neighbors do too. Until then, you know what I have to say... |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:48:54 PM EDT
[#12]
I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security.
lol |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:49:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean this expectation down to the penny? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/IMG_3733_jpeg-3123802.JPG Can’t wait for my SS rate of return to be less than -20% |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:50:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean this expectation down to the penny? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/IMG_3733_jpeg-3123802.JPG Yup. If you want me to defend the management of SS you got a bit of a wait, bub. In what way is it "theft"? |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:52:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security. lol You'll never see me defending it, in the sense of how it is managaed. But I'm a stickler for language, and it isn't "theft" by any definition besides hurt feelz. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:52:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I spent a career not paying into SS, except for a few early years as a taxpayer as explained above. I have a pension that makes me exempt from SS, but it carries other risks. Namely, it isn't "insured" by an outfit that is legally allowed to print money by the Trillion$. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you honestly not know that there are very few legitimate ways to avoid paying SS tax? And yes there's a gun to the head of anyone caught avoiding it? Are you really then going to stick by your ignorant statement that choosing to earn an honest living, the only way you can, implies consent with a bullshit program? I spent a career not paying into SS, except for a few early years as a taxpayer as explained above. I have a pension that makes me exempt from SS, but it carries other risks. Namely, it isn't "insured" by an outfit that is legally allowed to print money by the Trillion$. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances. Sounds like you had a choice. Maybe you agreeing to work for your company for that specific arrangement outside of SS was a choice. Bully for you. Also WAY different than being ass raped by the Fed gov for SS. What percentage of jobs in the US would you say get a choice like you did? 1%? 3%? The vast majority get no choice. Do we agree that SS does not remotely resemble any kind of lawful contract? |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:52:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security. lol Nobody knows what conservative means anymore. Some people think it means religious libertarians, some people think it’s means socially conservative socialists, and some people just think it means more guns and less taxes. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:53:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may not be able to tax your way out of it, but you CAN cut spending. Want to cut my SS 33%? I could live with that. My Traditional and Roth will get me by. Military pensions - on the table. Federal LEO pensions - on the table. House and Senate pensions - on the table. Welfare - on the table. Quit funding state pension systems. Farm subsidies. I could go on. Live within your means. If I'm going to take a big ol' bite of this shit sandwich, I want to make sure all my friends and neighbors do too. Until then, you know what I have to say... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For anyone who can't read a simple chart or look at actual budget outlays versus revenues; it's simple, at our current level Mandatory Spending(Things like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid) + interest payments outpace or are near balanced with our entire revenue stream. This means the entire discretionary budget (defense and everything else) is being borrowed. You could slash 100% of discretionary spending and we'd still be broke. Because current or soon to be Social Security recipients say "Fuck You, Pay Me". No dream of the "Trust Funds" is going to change this. You cannot tax your way out of this. You may not be able to tax your way out of it, but you CAN cut spending. Want to cut my SS 33%? I could live with that. My Traditional and Roth will get me by. Military pensions - on the table. Federal LEO pensions - on the table. House and Senate pensions - on the table. Welfare - on the table. Quit funding state pension systems. Farm subsidies. I could go on. Live within your means. If I'm going to take a big ol' bite of this shit sandwich, I want to make sure all my friends and neighbors do too. Until then, you know what I have to say... Oh I'd gladly cut everything by 33% tomorrow. Every single line item, and then use the surplus to pay off the debt. Once the debt is paid down send the surplus back to tax payers. It would suck for awhile but it would be much better then whistling Dixie while we drive the train off the cliff. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:54:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may not be able to tax your way out of it, but you CAN cut spending. Want to cut my SS 33%? I could live with that. My Traditional and Roth will get me by. Military pensions - on the table. Federal LEO pensions - on the table. House and Senate pensions - on the table. Welfare - on the table. Quit funding state pension systems. Farm subsidies. I could go on. Live within your means. If I'm going to take a big ol' bite of this shit sandwich, I want to make sure all my friends and neighbors do too. Until then, you know what I have to say... Let’s just cut all the things. SS, federal pensions, military budgets, all of it. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:54:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like you had a choice. Maybe you agreeing to work for your company for that specific arrangement outside of SS was a choice. Bully for you. Also WAY different than being ass raped by the Fed gov for SS. What percentage of jobs in the US would you say get a choice like you did? 1%? 3%? The vast majority get no choice. Do we agree that SS does not remotely resemble any kind of lawful contract? Everyone takes a bite of the sh*t sammich. I'm not exempt. There are risks to my pension, namely, the payor cannot print money out of thin air like fedgov and ONLY fedgov. If it goes tits up, oh well. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:55:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will never collect SS, but you will. Now, who's your daddy? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What you are describing is an edict, not a contract. As you mentioned earlier, your SS masters, whose boots you love to lick, issue new edicts as they see fit. I will never collect SS, but you will. Now, who's your daddy? They are still the masters of your society, with giant influence over your safety and quality of life. They are also incompetent fuck ups, putting us all on the path to ruin. And yet here you are, licking their boots. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:58:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about we just abolish social security. Kthxbye. I'd be fine with this if every fucking penny I was mandated to contribute since my first job in 1982 was returned to me. Yeah, I get it... We've been robbing Peter to pay Paul all of these years. But if I never get a penny back in SS pmts, then my money was flat-out STOLEN from me. Fuck every worthless fuck who thinks that I should just donate to the cause. MY cause is what matters to me. I don't need/want anyone else's money. Just what I was forced to put in. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:58:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security. lol Arfcom SS defenders...  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:59:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Watch what happens if the politicians decide to act on this and people who have 401ks pull an estimated seven and a quarter trillion dollars out of the market... lol. Easy fix. Make it a law that the financial institutions aren't allowed to let you have your money. Easy peasy. It's been done many times over the decades in failing countries and it's going to happen here. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:00:25 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are still the masters of your society, with giant influence over your safety and quality of life. They are also incompetent fuck ups, putting us all on the path to ruin. And yet here you are, licking their boots. LOL you. Just a guess, but I'm in a better financial situation than you, basely solely on your bitterness. Do you know why? Not because I'm a genious. It's because I don't obsess over sh*t I can't change. I make the best judgment I can, work my ass off, and then work some more. I pay what I have to pay and MOVE ON WITH LIFE. You might take a hint. Oh, we agree about incompetence at all levels of society, incl. govt. You'll never get me to defend them. The Bell Curve is real, incl. right here in GD! |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:01:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be fine with this if every fucking penny I was mandated to contribute since my first job in 1982 was returned to me. Yeah, I get it... We've been robbing Peter to pay Paul all of these years. But if I never get a penny back in SS pmts, then my money was flat-out STOLEN from me. Fuck every worthless fuck who thinks that I should just donate to the cause. MY cause is what matters to me. I don't need/want anyone else's money. Just what I was forced to put in. I just want the few thou that's stranded in my SS account, but people in hell want ice water, too, so I don't obsess over it. It's dead, Jim. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:02:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol. Easy fix. Make it a law that the financial institutions aren't allowed to let you have your money. Easy peasy. It's been done many times over the decades in failing countries and it's going to happen here. You're not wrong, and it's why I subscribe to the beans, bullets, and booze savings in addition to soon-to-be worthless money savings. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:02:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC they are linked, and money flows freely between them. Which would make them essentially one and the same. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Social security is paid out of the general fund. Any increase in tax revenue could conceivably assist in keeping the albatross of SS alive. Wrong! Social security is paid out of the Social Security Trust Fund. You and your employer pay FICA to fund Social Security and Medicare. See myth number 5 in this article. 10 SS myths IIRC they are linked, and money flows freely between them. Which would make them essentially one and the same. They are linked in the SS Trust Fund is invested in government obligations. If you buy an i bond are you linked to the government beyond having an investment? |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:02:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh I'd gladly cut everything by 33% tomorrow. Every single line item, and then use the surplus to pay off the debt. Once the debt is paid down send the surplus back to tax payers. It would suck for awhile but it would be much better then whistling Dixie while we drive the train off the cliff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: For anyone who can't read a simple chart or look at actual budget outlays versus revenues; it's simple, at our current level Mandatory Spending(Things like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid) + interest payments outpace or are near balanced with our entire revenue stream. This means the entire discretionary budget (defense and everything else) is being borrowed. You could slash 100% of discretionary spending and we'd still be broke. Because current or soon to be Social Security recipients say "Fuck You, Pay Me". No dream of the "Trust Funds" is going to change this. You cannot tax your way out of this. You may not be able to tax your way out of it, but you CAN cut spending. Want to cut my SS 33%? I could live with that. My Traditional and Roth will get me by. Military pensions - on the table. Federal LEO pensions - on the table. House and Senate pensions - on the table. Welfare - on the table. Quit funding state pension systems. Farm subsidies. I could go on. Live within your means. If I'm going to take a big ol' bite of this shit sandwich, I want to make sure all my friends and neighbors do too. Until then, you know what I have to say... Oh I'd gladly cut everything by 33% tomorrow. Every single line item, and then use the surplus to pay off the debt. Once the debt is paid down send the surplus back to tax payers. It would suck for awhile but it would be much better then whistling Dixie while we drive the train off the cliff. It won’t take awhile. It will take generations to pay the debt back even cutting the spending by 33%. It’s gone parabolic. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:03:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody knows what conservative means anymore. Some people think it means religious libertarians, some people think it’s means socially conservative socialists, and some people just think it means more guns and less taxes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security. lol Nobody knows what conservative means anymore. Some people think it means religious libertarians, some people think it’s means socially conservative socialists, and some people just think it means more guns and less taxes. These are basically the reasons I vote "conservative". |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:03:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL you. Just a guess, but I'm in a better financial situation than you, basely solely on your bitterness. Do you know why? Not because I'm a genious. It's because I don't obsess over sh*t I can't change. I make the best judgment I can, work my ass off, and then work some more. I pay what I have to pay and MOVE ON WITH LIFE. You might take a hint. Oh, we agree about incompetence at all levels of society, incl. govt. You'll never get me to defend them. The Bell Curve is real, incl. right here in GD! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are still the masters of your society, with giant influence over your safety and quality of life. They are also incompetent fuck ups, putting us all on the path to ruin. And yet here you are, licking their boots. LOL you. Just a guess, but I'm in a better financial situation than you, basely solely on your bitterness. Do you know why? Not because I'm a genious. It's because I don't obsess over sh*t I can't change. I make the best judgment I can, work my ass off, and then work some more. I pay what I have to pay and MOVE ON WITH LIFE. You might take a hint. Oh, we agree about incompetence at all levels of society, incl. govt. You'll never get me to defend them. The Bell Curve is real, incl. right here in GD! Rail Road, exempt-teacher or pre 84 Federal employee? |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:03:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not wrong, and it's why I subscribe to the beans, bullets, and booze savings in addition to soon-to-be worthless money savings. It doesn't hurt to have a Plan B, and a Plan C, and a Plan D... |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:03:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "The legal term theft is a very broad term in that it applies to a wide range of crimes, all of which consist of taking of someone’s property, with the intent of permanently depriving him of it." https://legaldictionary.net/theft/ Further, the courts have ruled that SS and many other taxes are legal. Just because it hurts your feelz doesn't make it illegal, or immoral. It just hurts your feelz, that's all. Of course, you're entitled to your feelz, but I'm not obligated by your feelz. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bipartisan-agreement-that-the-rich-s-401ks-must-be-destroyed-for-social-security-to-thrive/5-2705458/?r=-1&page=6&anc=107870001#i107869625 Theft: taking what you have no right to take. Ok. Now you have to honestly interact. Your turn. (hint: slow down enough to read my posts till you comprehend them). "The legal term theft is a very broad term in that it applies to a wide range of crimes, all of which consist of taking of someone’s property, with the intent of permanently depriving him of it." https://legaldictionary.net/theft/ Further, the courts have ruled that SS and many other taxes are legal. Just because it hurts your feelz doesn't make it illegal, or immoral. It just hurts your feelz, that's all. Of course, you're entitled to your feelz, but I'm not obligated by your feelz. It is known that for many, SS does not pay you, what you could have made investing that money with average returns. Even by your strictest definition of theft... That's theft. They are knowingly taking your property, and deliberately returning less of it. Giving some of it to others. Instances where people pay into SS and die before they are old enough to collect... Clear theft. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:05:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are basically the reasons I vote "conservative". They’re the best reasons in my book. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:06:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So do you believe that if everyone today stopped paying SS taxes that Social Security could continue for current beneficiaries until they die? Can the "Trust Fund" cover it? For how long? How much is in it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Social security is paid out of the general fund. Any increase in tax revenue could conceivably assist in keeping the albatross of SS alive. Wrong! Social security is paid out of the Social Security Trust Fund. You and your employer pay FICA to fund Social Security and Medicare. See myth number 5 in this article. 10 SS myths So do you believe that if everyone today stopped paying SS taxes that Social Security could continue for current beneficiaries until they die? Can the "Trust Fund" cover it? For how long? How much is in it? Of course not. SS is a pay as you go system. The Trust Fund was established because it was anticipated that the number of workers per retired persons would grow smaller. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:07:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It won’t take awhile. It will take generations to pay the debt back even cutting the spending by 33%. It’s gone parabolic. Correct. The natl. debt is $33T+/-. Newsflash: IT'S ALL COMING OUT OF DIFFERENT POCKETS ON THE FINANCIALLY BANKRUPT CORPSE. SS, .mil, medicare, education. All. Of. It. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:07:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No the socialism part is where the government takes your money and redistributes it to people that aren’t you. Nothing about SS is capitalist in any sense of the word. It’s not a free market practice, it’s born completely through government interference in the market. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did you know SS benefits are tiered based on monthly earnings? The formula breaks down your average monthly wage into three parts. In 2023, it is: 90 percent of the first $1,115 of your AIME; plus 32 percent of any amount over $1,115 up to $6,721; plus 15 percent of any amount over $6,721. Source The socialism part of SS is how benefits are calculated to give more to low earners. No the socialism part is where the government takes your money and redistributes it to people that aren’t you. Nothing about SS is capitalist in any sense of the word. It’s not a free market practice, it’s born completely through government interference in the market. By your definition any type of insurance is socialism. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:07:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rail Road, exempt-teacher or pre 84 Federal employee? None of the above. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:08:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security. lol Cuz... I already paid in? |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:08:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "The legal term theft is a very broad term in that it applies to a wide range of crimes, all of which consist of taking of someone’s property, with the intent of permanently depriving him of it." https://legaldictionary.net/theft/ Further, the courts have ruled that SS and many other taxes are legal. Just because it hurts your feelz doesn't make it illegal, or immoral. It just hurts your feelz, that's all. Of course, you're entitled to your feelz, but I'm not obligated by your feelz. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bipartisan-agreement-that-the-rich-s-401ks-must-be-destroyed-for-social-security-to-thrive/5-2705458/?r=-1&page=6&anc=107870001#i107869625 Theft: taking what you have no right to take. Ok. Now you have to honestly interact. Your turn. (hint: slow down enough to read my posts till you comprehend them). "The legal term theft is a very broad term in that it applies to a wide range of crimes, all of which consist of taking of someone’s property, with the intent of permanently depriving him of it." https://legaldictionary.net/theft/ Further, the courts have ruled that SS and many other taxes are legal. Just because it hurts your feelz doesn't make it illegal, or immoral. It just hurts your feelz, that's all. Of course, you're entitled to your feelz, but I'm not obligated by your feelz. I am not basing my definition of theft off my feelings. This is so foundational that it is in the first table of the ten. "You shall not steal." One explanation of what this means: Q. 142. What are the sins forbidden in the eighth commandment? A. The sins forbidden in the eighth commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, theft, robbery, man-stealing, and receiving anything that is stolen; fraudulent dealing, false weights and measures, removing landmarks, injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man, or in matters of trust; oppression, extortion, usury, bribery, vexatious lawsuits, unjust enclosures and depredation; engrossing commodities to enhance the price; unlawful callings, and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor what belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves; covetousness; inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods; distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them; envying at the prosperity of others; as likewise idleness, prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate, and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God hath given us. There is no exception in the text for "the government gets to do this." There is nothing about the nature of human law writers or enforcers that makes their conclusions and judgements morally binding. Nor anything about them that means their conclusions must match reality. I posted the nazi bit because it's an incredibly obvious example and a very low threshold to get over. "courts/lawmakers/executives say this is legal, there for it IS legal" is obviously false (the premises don't force you to accept the conclusion.) It's not the end of the world for you if you admit you were wrong about something. I'll even try and restrain any desire to smack you around if you do, because I'm not better than you. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:08:58 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is known that for many, SS does not pay you, what you could have made investing that money with average returns. Even by your strictest definition of theft... That's theft. They are knowingly taking your property, and deliberately returning less of it. Giving some of it to others. Instances where people pay into SS and die before they are old enough to collect... Clear theft. We already know that, and I have stated it in several posts above. SS IS BADLY MANAGED. Bad management is not theft. It's bad management. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:10:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of the above. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Rail Road, exempt-teacher or pre 84 Federal employee? None of the above. Interesting. Those are the only ones I knew that didn't involve citizenship stuff. I'm currently SS tax exempt, but have enough quarters of high contribution to not have a potential payment eliminated by the windfall provision. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:11:30 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not basing my definition of theft off my feelings. This is so foundational that it is in the first table of the ten. "You shall not steal." One explanation of what this means: Q. 142. What are the sins forbidden in the eighth commandment? A. The sins forbidden in the eighth commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, theft, robbery, man-stealing, and receiving anything that is stolen; fraudulent dealing, false weights and measures, removing landmarks, injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man, or in matters of trust; oppression, extortion, usury, bribery, vexatious lawsuits, unjust enclosures and depredation; engrossing commodities to enhance the price; unlawful callings, and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor what belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves; covetousness; inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods; distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them; envying at the prosperity of others; as likewise idleness, prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate, and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God hath given us. There is no exception in the text for "the government gets to do this." There is nothing about the nature of human law writers or enforcers that makes their conclusions and judgements morally binding. Nor anything about them that means their conclusions must match reality. I posted the nazi bit because it's an incredibly obvious example and a very low threshold to get over. "courts/lawmakers/executives say this is legal, there for it IS legal" is obviously false (the premises don't force you to accept the conclusion.) It's not the end of the world for you if you admit you were wrong about something. I'll even try and restrain any desire to smack you around if you do, because I'm not better than you. So now it's "I'm a victim", Nazis killing Jews, and Bible verse. OK then! I'm convinced!! |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:11:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to pick two bones with this post. First, the current positive balance doesn't mean sh*t. What matters is the time it takes to exhaust the money, and that's about 2032. Eight years. Or let's say 10 years because I'm a generous man and I trust the govt. The outgo exceeds the input, forever after. What then? That leads me to.... Second, SS not being paid out of the general revenue becomes moot. The imbalance will be made up by printing, which is exactly how the current deficits are papered over. "What difference does it make?TM" They are just two different empty pockets on the same economic corpse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did you know SS has a positive balance of close to a trillion dollars? The SS trust fund is by law invested in low paying government securities. When people talk about SS going broke in ten years, they are saying the trust fund will be exhausted. SS would still pay about 80% of your benefit amount out of current SS taxes. SS benefits are not paid from general tax revenues. I'm going to pick two bones with this post. First, the current positive balance doesn't mean sh*t. What matters is the time it takes to exhaust the money, and that's about 2032. Eight years. Or let's say 10 years because I'm a generous man and I trust the govt. The outgo exceeds the input, forever after. What then? That leads me to.... Second, SS not being paid out of the general revenue becomes moot. The imbalance will be made up by printing, which is exactly how the current deficits are papered over. "What difference does it make?TM" They are just two different empty pockets on the same economic corpse. Who says the imbalance will be paid for by printing money? SS was facing similar problems in the 80s and changes were made. They seem to have worked for 40 years and it is projected they will for 10 more. The system can and most likely will be changed. Raising the full retirement age and the cap are the most likely changes. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:12:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are basically the reasons I vote "conservative". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m really pretty impressed with the number of self-proclaimed “conservatives” defending social security. lol Nobody knows what conservative means anymore. Some people think it means religious libertarians, some people think it’s means socially conservative socialists, and some people just think it means more guns and less taxes. These are basically the reasons I vote "conservative". IMO on the basic level, the only sort of conservatism worth supporting is the kind that tries to conserve those things that make a morally decent society possible. That requires a certain specific level of government... and not one iota more. Anarchy (what so many mistakenly think is freedom) is the worst state on earth - it is everyones human nature run amuck with no outward controls on it besides physical reality. Because of human nature conservatism of this sort will always be a remnant, a subgroup, and it will always be fighting the tide of human nature, which is tempermentally bent towards doing what's wrong. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:12:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL you. Just a guess, but I'm in a better financial situation than you, basely solely on your bitterness. Do you know why? Not because I'm a genious. It's because I don't obsess over sh*t I can't change. I make the best judgment I can, work my ass off, and then work some more. I pay what I have to pay and MOVE ON WITH LIFE. You might take a hint. Oh, we agree about incompetence at all levels of society, incl. govt. You'll never get me to defend them. The Bell Curve is real, incl. right here in GD! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are still the masters of your society, with giant influence over your safety and quality of life. They are also incompetent fuck ups, putting us all on the path to ruin. And yet here you are, licking their boots. LOL you. Just a guess, but I'm in a better financial situation than you, basely solely on your bitterness. Do you know why? Not because I'm a genious. It's because I don't obsess over sh*t I can't change. I make the best judgment I can, work my ass off, and then work some more. I pay what I have to pay and MOVE ON WITH LIFE. You might take a hint. Oh, we agree about incompetence at all levels of society, incl. govt. You'll never get me to defend them. The Bell Curve is real, incl. right here in GD! I'm doing just fine. I don't need SS. Assuming these dumb fucks don't completely burn down America in the next 20 years, I don't expect to get much from it anyway. But I put $10K into the ponsi scheme this year anyway. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:13:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is known that for many, SS does not pay you, what you could have made investing that money with average returns. Even by your strictest definition of theft... That's theft. They are knowingly taking your property, and deliberately returning less of it. Giving some of it to others. Instances where people pay into SS and die before they are old enough to collect... Clear theft. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bipartisan-agreement-that-the-rich-s-401ks-must-be-destroyed-for-social-security-to-thrive/5-2705458/?r=-1&page=6&anc=107870001#i107869625 Theft: taking what you have no right to take. Ok. Now you have to honestly interact. Your turn. (hint: slow down enough to read my posts till you comprehend them). "The legal term theft is a very broad term in that it applies to a wide range of crimes, all of which consist of taking of someone’s property, with the intent of permanently depriving him of it." https://legaldictionary.net/theft/ Further, the courts have ruled that SS and many other taxes are legal. Just because it hurts your feelz doesn't make it illegal, or immoral. It just hurts your feelz, that's all. Of course, you're entitled to your feelz, but I'm not obligated by your feelz. It is known that for many, SS does not pay you, what you could have made investing that money with average returns. Even by your strictest definition of theft... That's theft. They are knowingly taking your property, and deliberately returning less of it. Giving some of it to others. Instances where people pay into SS and die before they are old enough to collect... Clear theft. ... and they don't save the funds they take in for SS. AFAIK, they never have. IIRC, you get a T-bill. Which is a promise that the government will make someone else pay you via taxes. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:13:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. Those are the only ones I knew that didn't involve citizenship stuff. I'm currently SS tax exempt, but have enough quarters of high contribution to not have a potential payment eliminated by the windfall provision. Then as you know, there is a risk to your plan, too, whatever that is. I accept the risk and get on with life, kinda like the Serenity Prayer. I have only so many f*cks to give, and I'm not wasting them on sh*t I can't change. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:15:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who says the imbalance will be paid for by printing money? SS was facing similar problems in the 80s and changes were made. They seem to have worked for 40 years and it is projected they will for 10 more. The system can and most likely will be changed. Raising the full retirement age and the cap are the most likely changes. You might be right. We agree. They may increase taxes for some or all participants, etc. But the ultimate backup is the ability to print $$$$$$$$$, which no other plan can offer. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 12:15:41 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So how do they do that without tanking the value of them? It's not cash or gold sitting a safety deposit box. They can increase taxes, but it'll most likely just be part of an overall income tax increase or increase inflation which also affects everyone else as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are going to go after 401ks. It's inevitable. So how do they do that without tanking the value of them? It's not cash or gold sitting a safety deposit box. They can increase taxes, but it'll most likely just be part of an overall income tax increase or increase inflation which also affects everyone else as well. You think commies give a shit about tanking the economy? It's a feature. Just like they are attacking private homeownership. Your guns. Your gasoline powered vehicles etc.. It's all about control. |
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