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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:40:12 AM EDT
[#1]
I guess it's better all the cops have horrific back problems when they retire from all that weight on their belt...because a carrier vest is too tacticool for you.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:42:24 AM EDT
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not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? Ol Joe has a M109, does that count? 
http://i49.tinypic.com/4r6q9w.jpg* *Yes, I know it is just a 30 ton billboard. Uhhh a M109 is a self propelled howitzer not a tank. Billboard comment noted. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:43:04 AM EDT
[#3]
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not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? Ol Joe has a M109, does that count?
http://i49.tinypic.com/4r6q9w.jpg* *Yes, I know it is just a 30 ton billboard. If we're gonna be technical, it doesn't count, as it's not a tank. 
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:43:45 AM EDT
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I have to agree here.
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Is this one better http://www.deschutes.org/getattachment/Sheriffs-Office/Larry-Blanton,-Sheriff/Sheriff-Blanton-001.jpg.aspx Sure. Not sure what it has to do with anything however. Your argument that "an officer should look like an officer" makes no sense. Especially given the picture posted earlier in this thread of cops on bikes with mounted machine guns. It's that sort of backward thinking that results in "officers with rifles are scary" and "uniforms shouldn't have pockets" and other such horseshit. An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division. The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants. I'm kinda partial to this look myself: http://imageshack.us/a/img809/5275/texasrangers2.jpg http://www.aphf.org/oficyear.gif Unpretentious, yet no nonsense. I like these. Plenty of pockets for my slappers, cold piece, knives, the pint the guy at the package store gives me for free every night, the cigars I got for free at the market, the ham and cheese on rye I got free at the deli, the candy the candy store lady gives me for free for my kids etc..................... cause that's really how it used to work. http://www.fairlawnpd.com/history/images_history/late_1930s.jpg As another aside... The US, among all countries, has a skewed expectation of law enforcement. We don't expect to pay bribes. We don't expect extortion, racketeering, theft, abuse, detainment, rape and harassment from our law enforcement. Our views on LEOs are uniquely our own. If you visit any other country, you will not see cops viewed the same as we view them. Our police, nowadays, are held to the highest levels of integrity in the world. No matter how much we may deride some of them, as a group, we are lucky to have what we have. TRG |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:45:04 AM EDT
[#5]
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––-SNIP–––– Show me were I said you said wound. Notice the question mark after wound. You know what I'm talking about as I understand what your saying. My point is the political correctness of the wording. It's called deadly force here, not threat stopping force. Of course it is deadly (lethal) force. Any use of a firearm is lethal force, and of course there is a probablity that the subject of said force will be killed. On that we agree. BUT FOR FUCK'S SAKE, DON'T FUCKING PUT "I SHOT TO KILL" IN YOUR REPORT. As an administrator, there would be no way to protect you from the ASS RAPING you would take over that, no matter how justified the use of force was. Please, trust me on this. All GD bullshit aside, play by the rules. No matter how much crow you gotta swallow to use "politcally correct" language. USE IT. The devil is in the details. I'm not totally tarded. No one would write a report that way. That was never even part of my point. You added that to it. ETA Last time I checked this was GD not a report. Lighten up Francis [/quote]
Fair enough... Jesus you had me ready to go read reports for the next 3 days. 
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:45:25 AM EDT
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You know, this whole 'my job is dangerous, therefore I must dress properly to address the safety issue'... It was odd, to say the least, to hear them tout the dangers and the need for personal protection while refusing to wear (actively and passively) all the 'non-cool' safety gear and practices in their next action. TRG Your analogy doesn’t track. The fishing jobs they are referencing are commercial jobs, not “Billy Joe” going down to the creek in a “shirt and cap” as so you eloquently put. Commercial fishermen absolutely do wear as much safety gear as they feasibly can, and still accomplish the job. Pretty sure I see the guys on deadliest catch wearing all kinds of gear, oh wait no they are just “playing dress up” and trying to “look cool” …. Got a kick out of the fact that you think because you worked/volunteered at a FD and are “friends” with some local LEO that now you are qualified to offer up opinions on how they should do THEIR job, entertaining to say the least. Walk a mile in their shoes then perhaps you can speak on what is an acceptable amount of gear to wear. You ever been a commercial fisherman? With a straight face, you are going to 'get a kick' out of my post, while basing your comments on something you saw on TV? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, Barney. TRG Easy there "hose dragger" I never said that I know what’s best for fishermen to wear, see the difference? Or do I need to spell it out with crayons and letter blocks. Good job on missing the point. "Sparky" is catchier and more to the point. 
TRG |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:45:48 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't think thugs were running around the streets with AK's 30 or 40 years ago.
But OP is right, we should probably just give all the cops K frames again... 
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:47:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Mindset > equipment
It's not just for tactics. Who was that superdouche from West Va (or maybe Tennessee) who tried to RICO everything in sight, painted his cars with trailerpark-inspired art of spiders with "DDT" on them, bragged about intimidating people, etc etc 
I can't think of his name off the top of my head but I've seen him mentioned on here before. Pretty much the poster boy for what the average person dislikes about certain trends in law enforcement. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:47:38 AM EDT
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An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division. The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants. First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too? 
Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse. Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense. This is the problem I have. I support police doing their duty and would like them to be geared so that they live to go home at the end of their shifts. It seems however, that the increased militarization of "peace officers" lends to them viewing themselves as separte from the citizenry of which they are a part. A police officers duty is to enforce the law and arrest people they determine to have violated those laws. It is then up to the courts to determine if that person was a "bad guy" or not. No issues here with officers responding to deadly force with deadly force, but "killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public" not so much. Oh lord...not this again. I'm not talking about cops being roving execution squads. Look....cops are tasked with a number of activities. Some of that includes the use of deadly force should it be deemed necessary for the situation. You can quibble over "stopping a threat" or "killing" but ultimately deadly force stands a good chance of being...well....deadly. So yes, in base terms one small segment of a LEO's day does in fact involve killing bad guys. And when it's time to do that I want it to happen now, effectively and as with as minimal collateral damage as is possible. That doesn't happen with a lack of training and crappy gear. A bad guy has a hostage and the LEO has one chance to make a high value shot. Do you want that officer using a 12ga with buckshot and only wanting to wound? Or, say it was your family member, do you want that police officer to deliver well aimed decisive fire that is going to solve the problem? Active shooter situation. Bad guy is walking through the mall randomly popping people. Do you want officer friendly showing up with his .38spl and a baseball cap, or do you want him to have access to a carbine with optics and plates inside his cruiser? What if your wife and kid were at the playland? How about you are going to the bank to make a deposit and Mr Gang Feller unveils his AK47 and begins a robbery. Assuming there are no CCW's there to respond, would you rather a patrolman showed up with a quality rifle and the training to employ it or that they set up a cordon and wait 4 hours of SWAT to effect an entry? You attend a large mega-church. A guy comes in and shoots the pastor dead. Because of state laws and a strict no-gun policy you are waiting on the police to respond. Again, do you want a patrolman to show up with the ability to possibly end the situation right then and there.....or wait and hope the guy doesn't take out a few more people? I know which one I want in those situations. That it *could possibly* result in a dead badguy is of little or no concern to me. So yea, cops kill people. It happens. You can parse whether it's a byproduct or not but ultimately that is what we are talking about here. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:50:59 AM EDT
[#10]
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Malarky. Bonnie and Clyde were walking around with more fire power than any modern criminal has even thought about accessing. They were the outlier in the data set, even in their days. The reason cops are wlking around with military gear is because funding makes it possible, along with the decreasing costs, and increasing effectiveness of body armor and military style gear. You wouldn't get a cop to wear a Vietnam era flack jacket on patrol in LA in the 70s. Now, it is 'affordable' to outfit cops with body armor and expect it to be lightweight and portable. The criminals have not changed. To say that they have 'changed' is to be disingenuous in your argument. Society, as shown by the DECREASE in violent crime over the last thirty years is, if anything LESS dangerous than at any time in our history. At least try to be honest about why the gear is worn, because it is not about safety, it is about cost vs. benefit for safety gear. If body armor only came in hot pink, and helmets only came with Hello Kitty stickers, you would not see as many cops wearing the stuff. TRG So you are saying we only wear it because it looks cool? Guess what? I hate wearing that stuff and only do it when I have to for warrant service, because it is required by policy. The rest of the time is civilian attire, a holster, and handcuffs. No reloads or secondary, the bare minimum. Most of the guys I work with feel the same and complain endlessly when we have to 'gear up'. Yea the "cops wear it because they look cool" argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me either. Availability of gear, as an offshoot of the past 10 years of warfare and other advances in technology, plus a changing expectation of what police officers are expected to deal with, is the global cause. I'm confident there are douche cops who wear plates to look badass, but from a macro perspective that is not the driving force. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:51:15 AM EDT
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––-SNIP–––– Show me were I said you said wound. Notice the question mark after wound. You know what I'm talking about as I understand what your saying. My point is the political correctness of the wording. It's called deadly force here, not threat stopping force. Of course it is deadly (lethal) force. Any use of a firearm is lethal force, and of course there is a probablity that the subject of said force will be killed. On that we agree. BUT FOR FUCK'S SAKE, DON'T FUCKING PUT "I SHOT TO KILL" IN YOUR REPORT. As an administrator, there would be no way to protect you from the ASS RAPING you would take over that, no matter how justified the use of force was. Please, trust me on this. All GD bullshit aside, play by the rules. No matter how much crow you gotta swallow to use "politcally correct" language. USE IT. The devil is in the details. I'm not totally tarded. No one would write a report that way. That was never even part of my point. You added that to it. ETA Last time I checked this was GD not a report. Lighten up Francis Fair enough... Jesus you had me ready to go read reports for the next 3 days. [/quote]
I hear ya. I've read/rejected some beauties. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:53:49 AM EDT
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Bonnie and Clyde were walking around with more fire power than any modern criminal has even thought about accessing. They were the outlier in the data set, even in their days. The reason cops are wlking around with military gear is because funding makes it possible, along with the decreasing costs, and increasing effectiveness of body armor and military style gear. You wouldn't get a cop to wear a Vietnam era flack jacket on patrol in LA in the 70s. Now, it is 'affordable' to outfit cops with body armor and expect it to be lightweight and portable. The criminals have not changed. To say that they have 'changed' is to be disingenuous in your argument. Society, as shown by the DECREASE in violent crime over the last thirty years is, if anything LESS dangerous than at any time in our history. At least try to be honest about why the gear is worn, because it is not about safety, it is about cost vs. benefit for safety gear. If body armor only came in hot pink, and helmets only came with Hello Kitty stickers, you would not see as many cops wearing the stuff. TRG Bonnie and Clyde were not the norm in their day or ours. They are remembered today BECAUSE theyw ere not the norm then. Why would the free market only provide an item in hot pink, if the prospective customer base wanted other options? Cost vs benefit? Yes, a plate carrier is cheaper than getting patched up after being shot. No ones disputing that,so whats your point? Not all LE gear is "funded", although if an agency is going to make a large scale purchase its usually a grant.Plenty of us tote gear around that we bought out of our own pockets. Has crime stopped completely? Nope. So to say that crime is down so we should all breath easy and make our LEOs wear gear that is impractical just because some folks are offended b y practical gear is silly. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:57:35 AM EDT
[#13]
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Bonnie and Clyde were walking around with more fire power than any modern criminal has even thought about accessing. They were the outlier in the data set, even in their days. The reason cops are wlking around with military gear is because funding makes it possible, along with the decreasing costs, and increasing effectiveness of body armor and military style gear. You wouldn't get a cop to wear a Vietnam era flack jacket on patrol in LA in the 70s. Now, it is 'affordable' to outfit cops with body armor and expect it to be lightweight and portable. The criminals have not changed. To say that they have 'changed' is to be disingenuous in your argument. Society, as shown by the DECREASE in violent crime over the last thirty years is, if anything LESS dangerous than at any time in our history. At least try to be honest about why the gear is worn, because it is not about safety, it is about cost vs. benefit for safety gear. If body armor only came in hot pink, and helmets only came with Hello Kitty stickers, you would not see as many cops wearing the stuff. TRG Bonnie and Clyde were not the norm in their day or ours. They are remembered today BECAUSE theyw ere not the norm then. Why would the free market only provide an item in hot pink, if the prospective customer base wanted other options? Cost vs benefit? Yes, a plate carrier is cheaper than getting patched up after being shot. No ones disputing that,so whats your point? Not all LE gear is "funded", although if an agency is going to make a large scale purchase its usually a grant.Plenty of us tote gear around that we bought out of our own pockets. Has crime stopped completely? Nope. So to say that crime is down so we should all breath easy and make our LEOs wear gear that is impractical just because some folks are offended b y practical gear is silly. RIF, buddy, RIF. TRG |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:57:55 AM EDT
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Mindset > equipment It's not just for tactics. Who was that superdouche from West Va (or maybe Tennessee) who tried to RICO everything in sight, painted his cars with trailerpark-inspired art of spiders with "DDT" on them, bragged about intimidating people, etc etc
I can't think of his name off the top of my head but I've seen him mentioned on here before. Pretty much the poster boy for what the average person dislikes about certain trends in law enforcement. Gerald Hege |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:59:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Lawmen of just a generation or two ago did just fine without drop leg holsters, ninja masks and trying to be black-clad tier-one "coperators". The threats to the public and to them were just as lethal, probably just as common too. Why aren't the experienced and retired lawmen smacking this generation back to reality for playing commando dress-up? Is this trend doing damage to the public's perception of them? I believe it is. http://revolutionaryfrontlines.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/policestateusa.jpeg http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/SWAT.jpg  |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 11:59:49 AM EDT
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Then I don't get your point.
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Oh. I wouldn't know. Police officers around here don't wear military uniforms. Nor the majority of ours (except for swat teams etc). You seem to acknowledge the lack of an issue. My issue is actually Very Simple I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers Military Member on the Left, Police Officer on the right http://dmna.ny.gov/home/storyimages/Stefik%20Award%20Photo.JPG Military member on the left, police officer on the right.  
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:00:29 PM EDT
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not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? some exasperation sure, but its the thought (money) that counts..see more here The Nebraska State Patrol has three amphibious eight-wheeled tanks. Acquired almost three years ago, their highest achievement has been helping with a flood last year and with a shooting a couple of weeks ago. Overall, it has been deployed five times. At least, officers love driving them. “They’re fun,” said trooper Art Frerichs to the Lincoln Journal Star in 2010. And the ride, according to Patrol Sgt. Loveless, “is very smooth.”
In Lebanon, Tennessee, a town of less than 30,000 people, Mike Justice, the public safety coordinator, was so eager to accumulate military goods that he used to wake up at 3:00 a.m. so he was the first person logged in at the government’s first-come, first-serve online store. Thanks to his sleepless nights, since 2007, Lebanon has collected $4 million worth of stuff, including tanks, weapons and heavy equipment like bulldozers and truck loaders. Lebanon’s tank, an LAV 150, has been used only “five or six times,” according to Justice. Although it did help save a man who tried to commit suicide, spotting him with the tank’s infrared camera.
Approximately a year ago, in the suburbs of Atlanta, two armed men robbed a convenience store and fled. The local Cobb County Police Department responded quickly. Following the directions of a witness, who saw the two suspects get into an abandoned house, they arrived at the scene, set a perimeter and called the SWAT team. It was the perfect time to roll out the amphibious armored tank, which was acquired to help officers in high-risk situations like this one. After ordering the suspects to surrender – and receiving no response – the SWAT team broke into the house and moved in. The suspects were nowhere to be found.
Take the 50-officer police department in Oxford, Alabama, a town of 20,000 people. It has stockpiled around $3 million of equipment, ranging from M-16s and helmet-mounted infrared goggles to its own armored vehicle, a Puma. In Tupelo, Mississippi, home to 35,000, the local police acquired a helicopter for only $7,500 through the surplus program. The chopper, however, had to be upgraded for $100,000 and it now costs $20,000 a year in maintenance.
In 2011 alone, more than 700,000 items were transferred to police departments for a total value of $500 million. This year, as of May 15, police departments already acquired almost $400 million worth of stuff. Last year’s record would have certainly been shattered if the Arizona Republic hadn’t revealed in early May that a local police department used the program to stockpile equipment – and then sold the gear to others, something that is strictly forbidden. Three weeks after the revelation, the Pentagon decided to partly suspend distribution of surplus material until all agencies could put together an up-to-date inventory of all the stuff they got through the years. A second effort, which gives federal grants to police departments to purchase equipment, is still ongoing, however. According to the Center for Investigative Reporting, since 9/11, the grants have totaled $34 billion.
granted a lot of this stuff is mil surplus, but your taxes still paid for it and it mostly has to be stored and maintained. and many cities are buying rolling command centers and such which arent cheap either but heck citizen, if you like paying taxes and you like mil stuff then i guess its a big plus plus.... |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:01:25 PM EDT
[#18]
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RIF, buddy, RIF. TRG I read it, I replied |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:02:37 PM EDT
[#19]
some exasperation sure, but its the thought (money) that counts None of those vehicles listed is a tank |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:03:31 PM EDT
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Then I don't get your point.
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Oh. I wouldn't know. Police officers around here don't wear military uniforms. Nor the majority of ours (except for swat teams etc). You seem to acknowledge the lack of an issue. My issue is actually Very Simple I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers Military Member on the Left, Police Officer on the right http://dmna.ny.gov/home/storyimages/Stefik%20Award%20Photo.JPG Military member on the left, police officer on the right. http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/rv5_images/asu/changes/short-sleeve.jpghttp://www.specialforces.com/image/data/R/30015_big.jpg Guy on the right needs to review the way to hold his baton. It's backwards. TRG |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:04:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: LAV does not equal tank no matter want a reporter writes.Quoted: Quoted: not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? some exasperation sure, but its the thought (money) that counts..see more here The Nebraska State Patrol has three amphibious eight-wheeled tanks. Acquired almost three years ago, their highest achievement has been helping with a flood last year and with a shooting a couple of weeks ago. Overall, it has been deployed five times. At least, officers love driving them. "They’re fun,” said trooper Art Frerichs to the Lincoln Journal Star in 2010. And the ride, according to Patrol Sgt. Loveless, "is very smooth.” In Lebanon, Tennessee, a town of less than 30,000 people, Mike Justice, the public safety coordinator, was so eager to accumulate military goods that he used to wake up at 3:00 a.m. so he was the first person logged in at the government’s first-come, first-serve online store. Thanks to his sleepless nights, since 2007, Lebanon has collected $4 million worth of stuff, including tanks, weapons and heavy equipment like bulldozers and truck loaders. Lebanon’s tank, an LAV 150, has been used only "five or six times,” according to Justice. Although it did help save a man who tried to commit suicide, spotting him with the tank’s infrared camera. Approximately a year ago, in the suburbs of Atlanta, two armed men robbed a convenience store and fled. The local Cobb County Police Department responded quickly. Following the directions of a witness, who saw the two suspects get into an abandoned house, they arrived at the scene, set a perimeter and called the SWAT team. It was the perfect time to roll out the amphibious armored tank, which was acquired to help officers in high-risk situations like this one. After ordering the suspects to surrender – and receiving no response – the SWAT team broke into the house and moved in. The suspects were nowhere to be found. Take the 50-officer police department in Oxford, Alabama, a town of 20,000 people. It has stockpiled around $3 million of equipment, ranging from M-16s and helmet-mounted infrared goggles to its own armored vehicle, a Puma. In Tupelo, Mississippi, home to 35,000, the local police acquired a helicopter for only $7,500 through the surplus program. The chopper, however, had to be upgraded for $100,000 and it now costs $20,000 a year in maintenance. In 2011 alone, more than 700,000 items were transferred to police departments for a total value of $500 million. This year, as of May 15, police departments already acquired almost $400 million worth of stuff. Last year’s record would have certainly been shattered if the Arizona Republic hadn’t revealed in early May that a local police department used the program to stockpile equipment – and then sold the gear to others, something that is strictly forbidden. Three weeks after the revelation, the Pentagon decided to partly suspend distribution of surplus material until all agencies could put together an up-to-date inventory of all the stuff they got through the years. A second effort, which gives federal grants to police departments to purchase equipment, is still ongoing, however. According to the Center for Investigative Reporting, since 9/11, the grants have totaled $34 billion. granted a lot of this stuff is mil surplus, but your taxes still paid for it and it mostly has to be stored and maintained. and many cities are buying rolling command centers and such which arent cheap either but heck citizen, if you like paying taxes and you like mil stuff then i guess its a big plus plus.... |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:04:07 PM EDT
[#22]
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RIF, buddy, RIF. TRG I read it, I replied I can't make it a pop-up book, so, I guess you are stuck. TRG |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:05:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My issue is actually Very Simple I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers Yet you've given no reasoning or validation for this viewpoint other than it's what you feel is right. I just Did a quick poll of Joe Q Public at work and ......... Yep, Cops should look like Cops and not Military (and as they added) "because they have a different role" Well, cops have ALWAYS worn military style clothing, depending on the particular assignment. So, how do cops NOT look military? By wearing plainclothes like polos and kakhis.... But wait, then people will complain about them not looking like "cops". Yup, folks get appalled that they "look like thugs". |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:05:50 PM EDT
[#24]
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LAV does not equal tank no matter want a reporter writes.
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not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? some exasperation sure, but its the thought (money) that counts..see more here The Nebraska State Patrol has three amphibious eight-wheeled tanks. Acquired almost three years ago, their highest achievement has been helping with a flood last year and with a shooting a couple of weeks ago. Overall, it has been deployed five times. At least, officers love driving them. "They’re fun,” said trooper Art Frerichs to the Lincoln Journal Star in 2010. And the ride, according to Patrol Sgt. Loveless, "is very smooth.”
In Lebanon, Tennessee, a town of less than 30,000 people, Mike Justice, the public safety coordinator, was so eager to accumulate military goods that he used to wake up at 3:00 a.m. so he was the first person logged in at the government’s first-come, first-serve online store. Thanks to his sleepless nights, since 2007, Lebanon has collected $4 million worth of stuff, including tanks, weapons and heavy equipment like bulldozers and truck loaders. Lebanon’s tank, an LAV 150, has been used only "five or six times,” according to Justice. Although it did help save a man who tried to commit suicide, spotting him with the tank’s infrared camera.
Approximately a year ago, in the suburbs of Atlanta, two armed men robbed a convenience store and fled. The local Cobb County Police Department responded quickly. Following the directions of a witness, who saw the two suspects get into an abandoned house, they arrived at the scene, set a perimeter and called the SWAT team. It was the perfect time to roll out the amphibious armored tank, which was acquired to help officers in high-risk situations like this one. After ordering the suspects to surrender – and receiving no response – the SWAT team broke into the house and moved in. The suspects were nowhere to be found.
Take the 50-officer police department in Oxford, Alabama, a town of 20,000 people. It has stockpiled around $3 million of equipment, ranging from M-16s and helmet-mounted infrared goggles to its own armored vehicle, a Puma. In Tupelo, Mississippi, home to 35,000, the local police acquired a helicopter for only $7,500 through the surplus program. The chopper, however, had to be upgraded for $100,000 and it now costs $20,000 a year in maintenance.
In 2011 alone, more than 700,000 items were transferred to police departments for a total value of $500 million. This year, as of May 15, police departments already acquired almost $400 million worth of stuff. Last year’s record would have certainly been shattered if the Arizona Republic hadn’t revealed in early May that a local police department used the program to stockpile equipment – and then sold the gear to others, something that is strictly forbidden. Three weeks after the revelation, the Pentagon decided to partly suspend distribution of surplus material until all agencies could put together an up-to-date inventory of all the stuff they got through the years. A second effort, which gives federal grants to police departments to purchase equipment, is still ongoing, however. According to the Center for Investigative Reporting, since 9/11, the grants have totaled $34 billion.
granted a lot of this stuff is mil surplus, but your taxes still paid for it and it mostly has to be stored and maintained. and many cities are buying rolling command centers and such which arent cheap either but heck citizen, if you like paying taxes and you like mil stuff then i guess its a big plus plus.... fine, go back to your quote of my quote and fill in the correct designation. my main point is the money it costs and they get hardware that is rarely used and you and i pay the bill. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:07:27 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:08:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mindset > equipment It's not just for tactics. Who was that superdouche from West Va (or maybe Tennessee) who tried to RICO everything in sight, painted his cars with trailerpark-inspired art of spiders with "DDT" on them, bragged about intimidating people, etc etc
I can't think of his name off the top of my head but I've seen him mentioned on here before. Pretty much the poster boy for what the average person dislikes about certain trends in law enforcement. Gerald Hege ) The jail was repainted in pink with weeping blue teddy bears. Prisoners also wore color coordinated jumpsuits to identify their offense: Blue for misdemeanors, green for sex offenders, and orange for felons.
That is funny.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:10:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
LAV does not equal tank no matter want a reporter writes.
Quoted:
Quoted:
not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? some exasperation sure, but its the thought (money) that counts..see more here The Nebraska State Patrol has three amphibious eight-wheeled tanks. Acquired almost three years ago, their highest achievement has been helping with a flood last year and with a shooting a couple of weeks ago. Overall, it has been deployed five times. At least, officers love driving them. "They’re fun,” said trooper Art Frerichs to the Lincoln Journal Star in 2010. And the ride, according to Patrol Sgt. Loveless, "is very smooth.”
In Lebanon, Tennessee, a town of less than 30,000 people, Mike Justice, the public safety coordinator, was so eager to accumulate military goods that he used to wake up at 3:00 a.m. so he was the first person logged in at the government’s first-come, first-serve online store. Thanks to his sleepless nights, since 2007, Lebanon has collected $4 million worth of stuff, including tanks, weapons and heavy equipment like bulldozers and truck loaders. Lebanon’s tank, an LAV 150, has been used only "five or six times,” according to Justice. Although it did help save a man who tried to commit suicide, spotting him with the tank’s infrared camera.
Approximately a year ago, in the suburbs of Atlanta, two armed men robbed a convenience store and fled. The local Cobb County Police Department responded quickly. Following the directions of a witness, who saw the two suspects get into an abandoned house, they arrived at the scene, set a perimeter and called the SWAT team. It was the perfect time to roll out the amphibious armored tank, which was acquired to help officers in high-risk situations like this one. After ordering the suspects to surrender – and receiving no response – the SWAT team broke into the house and moved in. The suspects were nowhere to be found.
Take the 50-officer police department in Oxford, Alabama, a town of 20,000 people. It has stockpiled around $3 million of equipment, ranging from M-16s and helmet-mounted infrared goggles to its own armored vehicle, a Puma. In Tupelo, Mississippi, home to 35,000, the local police acquired a helicopter for only $7,500 through the surplus program. The chopper, however, had to be upgraded for $100,000 and it now costs $20,000 a year in maintenance.
In 2011 alone, more than 700,000 items were transferred to police departments for a total value of $500 million. This year, as of May 15, police departments already acquired almost $400 million worth of stuff. Last year’s record would have certainly been shattered if the Arizona Republic hadn’t revealed in early May that a local police department used the program to stockpile equipment – and then sold the gear to others, something that is strictly forbidden. Three weeks after the revelation, the Pentagon decided to partly suspend distribution of surplus material until all agencies could put together an up-to-date inventory of all the stuff they got through the years. A second effort, which gives federal grants to police departments to purchase equipment, is still ongoing, however. According to the Center for Investigative Reporting, since 9/11, the grants have totaled $34 billion.
granted a lot of this stuff is mil surplus, but your taxes still paid for it and it mostly has to be stored and maintained. and many cities are buying rolling command centers and such which arent cheap either but heck citizen, if you like paying taxes and you like mil stuff then i guess its a big plus plus.... fine, go back to your quote of my quote and fill in the correct designation. my main point is the money it costs and they get hardware that is rarely used and you and i pay the bill. Thread after thread in this forum talks about the need for people to be ready for TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI, thread after thread about mass riots, chaos on the streets, the threat from China, the Mooselimbs, Mexico, Canadian Geese, etc. People entertain fantasies about an American Beslan, or worse. But the police? Well, they should only prepare for routine traffic stops and the occasional drunk. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:12:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I can't make it a pop-up book, so, I guess you are stuck. TRG I'm not stuck, thanks for playing |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:12:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Thread after thread in this forum talks about the need for people to be ready for TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI, thread after thread about mass riots, chaos on the streets, the threat from China, the Mooselimbs, Mexico, Canadian Geese, etc. People entertain fantasies about an American Beslan, or worse. But the police? Well, they should only prepare for routine traffic stops and the occasional drunk. Well said. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:13:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
LAV does not equal tank no matter want a reporter writes.
Quoted:
Quoted:
not gonna read it all. probably somebody already said it. my (your) tax dollars going to keep us all safe. boocoo tax dollars. small towns with tanks, mobile command centers. also i find it interesting that in some ways modern mil operations are more like large scale drug raids than ole timey war, ala WWII and that cops tend to be more operator-like, especially since 911. sort of a blending of mil and police. but like i said, the main thing pisses me off is the money spent on things... Can you show me a dept with a "tank"? some exasperation sure, but its the thought (money) that counts..see more here The Nebraska State Patrol has three amphibious eight-wheeled tanks. Acquired almost three years ago, their highest achievement has been helping with a flood last year and with a shooting a couple of weeks ago. Overall, it has been deployed five times. At least, officers love driving them. "They’re fun,” said trooper Art Frerichs to the Lincoln Journal Star in 2010. And the ride, according to Patrol Sgt. Loveless, "is very smooth.”
In Lebanon, Tennessee, a town of less than 30,000 people, Mike Justice, the public safety coordinator, was so eager to accumulate military goods that he used to wake up at 3:00 a.m. so he was the first person logged in at the government’s first-come, first-serve online store. Thanks to his sleepless nights, since 2007, Lebanon has collected $4 million worth of stuff, including tanks, weapons and heavy equipment like bulldozers and truck loaders. Lebanon’s tank, an LAV 150, has been used only "five or six times,” according to Justice. Although it did help save a man who tried to commit suicide, spotting him with the tank’s infrared camera.
Approximately a year ago, in the suburbs of Atlanta, two armed men robbed a convenience store and fled. The local Cobb County Police Department responded quickly. Following the directions of a witness, who saw the two suspects get into an abandoned house, they arrived at the scene, set a perimeter and called the SWAT team. It was the perfect time to roll out the amphibious armored tank, which was acquired to help officers in high-risk situations like this one. After ordering the suspects to surrender – and receiving no response – the SWAT team broke into the house and moved in. The suspects were nowhere to be found.
Take the 50-officer police department in Oxford, Alabama, a town of 20,000 people. It has stockpiled around $3 million of equipment, ranging from M-16s and helmet-mounted infrared goggles to its own armored vehicle, a Puma. In Tupelo, Mississippi, home to 35,000, the local police acquired a helicopter for only $7,500 through the surplus program. The chopper, however, had to be upgraded for $100,000 and it now costs $20,000 a year in maintenance.
In 2011 alone, more than 700,000 items were transferred to police departments for a total value of $500 million. This year, as of May 15, police departments already acquired almost $400 million worth of stuff. Last year’s record would have certainly been shattered if the Arizona Republic hadn’t revealed in early May that a local police department used the program to stockpile equipment – and then sold the gear to others, something that is strictly forbidden. Three weeks after the revelation, the Pentagon decided to partly suspend distribution of surplus material until all agencies could put together an up-to-date inventory of all the stuff they got through the years. A second effort, which gives federal grants to police departments to purchase equipment, is still ongoing, however. According to the Center for Investigative Reporting, since 9/11, the grants have totaled $34 billion.
granted a lot of this stuff is mil surplus, but your taxes still paid for it and it mostly has to be stored and maintained. and many cities are buying rolling command centers and such which arent cheap either but heck citizen, if you like paying taxes and you like mil stuff then i guess its a big plus plus.... fine, go back to your quote of my quote and fill in the correct designation. my main point is the money it costs and they get hardware that is rarely used and you and i pay the bill. Thread after thread in this forum talks about the need for people to be ready for TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI, thread after thread about mass riots, chaos on the streets, the threat from China, the Mooselimbs, Mexico, Canadian Geese, etc. People entertain fantasies about an American Beslan, or worse. But the police? Well, they should only prepare for routine traffic stops and the occasional drunk. I would imagine some of those people see fighting the police as future... |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:20:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Thread after thread in this forum talks about the need for people to be ready for TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI, thread after thread about mass riots, chaos on the streets, the threat from China, the Mooselimbs, Mexico, Canadian Geese, etc. People entertain fantasies about an American Beslan, or worse. But the police? Well, they should only prepare for routine traffic stops and the occasional drunk. well see, i dont believe in teotwawki, and massive shtf, zombies, mooslem takeovers, azatlan domination, obama declaring martial law, boxcars with shackles, invasion of un troops, red dawn, the total collapse of civilization, and other such things. so i dont have a nuke proof bomb shelter with 3 years of food, a bugout redoubt in the mountains, and a car that runs on wood chips. all because im gambling (and the oods are in my favor) that i wont ever need them. and the high end milspec stuff the police buy, at my expense wont be used much at all if ever. i suppose that money spent on militarization of police is popular here like obama phones and free health care are popular on du. the point im making is i want less gov, and less tax dollars and some of the money spent on things is excessive and small town police forces getting amphibious personnel carriers or whatever they are is an expense i am not willing to support.. ymmv |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:22:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I don't think thugs were running around the streets with AK's 30 or 40 years ago. But OP is right, we should probably just give all the cops K frames again... I seem to remember gangster in prohibition using Thompsom machineguns and that being one of the reasons we can no longer easily own them as civilians. Since cartels have easy access to grenades, using your logic, should we issue those to lawenforcement as well? See I can make a hyperbolic argument too. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:29:01 PM EDT
[#33]
This is one of the LAV's ("tanks") you are so concerned about.
 MilSurp that is available at very minimal cost. But continue with your visions of the 1st Panzer blitzkrieging your homestead.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:29:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
the point im making is i want less gov, and less tax dollars and some of the money spent on things is excessive and small town police forces getting amphibious personnel carriers or whatever they are is an expense i am not willing to support.. I'm not seeing any small particularly towns mentioned in the article. Lebanon TN is considered part of the nashville metropolitian area according to Wiki Oxford AL is contiguous to Anniston. I would think that crime doesn't stop at the borders of small towns...... so you aren't willing to support having the equipment. I bet you'd the first one screaming about how unprepared the LEOs in your town were if something bad were to ever happen there |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:30:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: I don't think thugs were running around the streets with AK's 30 or 40 years ago. But OP is right, we should probably just give all the cops K frames again... I seem to remember gangster in prohibition using Thompsom machineguns and that being one of the reasons we can no longer easily own them as civilians. Since cartels have easy access to grenades, using your logic, should we issue those to lawenforcement as well? See I can make a hyperbolic argument too. Fuckin A! I can haz frags? Cool.  |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:31:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
I don't think thugs were running around the streets with AK's 30 or 40 years ago. But OP is right, we should probably just give all the cops K frames again... They definitely weren't...but the "thugs" of the day were probably bootleggers or bank robbers and their weapon of choice was the Thompson SMG. I remember seeing something on the history channel relating to the adjustments the Police and newly formed FBI had to make in terms of equipment in response to those threats. But back to the OP's original thought...I don't care so much about what the police wear as I am with WHAT they are allowed to do in regard to search, seizure, detainment, etc. I think a true police state exists when those rights are infringed regardless of what kind of tacticool stuff the cops wear. So no, I don't think that occasionally seeing police dressed up as SEALS is really that bad for their overall image, so long as citizens rights remain fully intact. The whole idea of "closed areas" and "free speech zones," expanded search powers, and MILLIONS of dollars in riot gear that the .gov gave the police here in Charlotte during the DNC was a scary look at what the future will hold for this country, if we keep moving in our current direction. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:32:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Uhhh a M109 is a self propelled howitzer not a tank. Hence the "does that count" and smilie.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:35:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Many police officers have died because of people who think like you. This. Events of the last few decades have shown that police have to be ready to respond to virtually anything. Beslan, Mumbai, Columbine, VT, the list goes on. This....Don't forget the N. Hollywood shootout also... I think that was the catalyst for being prepared for almost any contingency... |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
This is one of the LAV's ("tanks") you are so concerned about. MilSurp that is available at very minimal cost. But continue with your visions of the 1st Panzer blitzkrieging your homestead. ah me.. your missing the point. i get along famously with the police, if they were going house to house and arresting 'suspicious folks' they wouldnt come to my house. most likely. so i could give a rats ass about what kinds of gear they have. i know it wont be used on me. basically 'they're on my side'. so its not that at all, its the cost, pure and simple. and someone paid for all that stuff and storing and maintaining it aint free and thats the only issue i have.. period.. end of story. i find it ironic. most folks here at least probably feel the government is too big and taxes are too high. but they have their own oxen that they dont wont gored, their own parts of government they arent willing to cut, even if on paper there are some extravagances that are rarely if ever used. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:37:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Then I don't get your point.Quoted: Oh. I wouldn't know. Police officers around here don't wear military uniforms. Nor the majority of ours (except for swat teams etc). You seem to acknowledge the lack of an issue. My issue is actually Very Simple I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers Military Member on the Left, Police Officer on the right http://dmna.ny.gov/home/storyimages/Stefik%20Award%20Photo.JPG Military member on the left, police officer on the right. http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/rv5_images/asu/changes/short-sleeve.jpghttp://www.specialforces.com/image/data/R/30015_big.jpg Cop has a black M12 holster! Militarization of Poleeces!Militarization of Poleeces! |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:38:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
If an officer showed up all tacticool you can guarantee they are being made fun of by other officers and wouldn't do it twice. This man knows what he's talking about. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:41:04 PM EDT
[#42]
 |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:44:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Has anyone noted that the cops in the OP's post were SWAT/ESU types on assignment and NOT regular patrol cops?
Perhaps they were dressed for that particular incident and NOT in their normal uniform. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:53:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Military member on the left, police officer on the right. http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/rv5_images/asu/changes/short-sleeve.jpghttp://www.specialforces.com/image/data/R/30015_big.jpg Guy on the right needs to review the way to hold his baton. It's backwards. TRG That's because I'm pretty sure it's not a cop, it's a stripper. The militarization of strippers must stop. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:54:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
By wearing plainclothes like polos and kakhis.... But wait, then people will complain about them not looking like "cops". Yup, folks get appalled that they "look like thugs". You have some very well dressed thugs in your AO. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:56:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mindset > equipment It's not just for tactics. Who was that superdouche from West Va (or maybe Tennessee) who tried to RICO everything in sight, painted his cars with trailerpark-inspired art of spiders with "DDT" on them, bragged about intimidating people, etc etc
I can't think of his name off the top of my head but I've seen him mentioned on here before. Pretty much the poster boy for what the average person dislikes about certain trends in law enforcement. Gerald Hege Thank you Despite Hege's "No Deals" slogan, he eventually accepted a plea agreement.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 12:58:57 PM EDT
[#47]
My two cents nobody wants... Taking some sort of offense as to what cops are dressing like is similar to getting all butt hurt over things like barrel shrouds, flash hiders and the color black on firearms. I don't care at all what my rifle looks like, as long as it does its job. I don't care at all what my cops look like, as long as they do their job. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 1:00:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: My two cents nobody wants... Taking some sort of offense as to what cops are dressing like is similar to getting all butt hurt over things like barrel shrouds, flash hiders and the color black on firearms. I don't care at all what my rifle looks like, as long as it does its job. I don't care at all what my cops look like, as long as they do their job.  |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 1:02:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: My two cents nobody wants... Taking some sort of offense as to what cops are dressing like is similar to getting all butt hurt over things like barrel shrouds, flash hiders and the color black on firearms. I don't care at all what my rifle looks like, as long as it does its job. I don't care at all what my cops look like, as long as they do their job. It's already been opined in this thread that Da PoPo shouldn't have EBR's or at least put wood grain furniture on them because of "perception." |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 1:03:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not their gear...it's the attitude behind it. the gear follows the attitude. Ever see a D.O.T. Enforcement wearing full 5.11 gear? I have, and when I ask them why they need tacticool gear for dealing with fat sloppy truckers, they usually hand me some sort of violation award  I have little to no respect for non SWAT Cops that dress like that. Hell I dont care for 85% of LEO for that matter Oh! My! God! The fucking Humanity!!!!! 5.11! My working uniform is a 5.11 polo or button down embroidered and 5.11 or tru-spec pants! Why? because they are more comfortable and cost less than class A's with all the shiney shit and unless I'm actually working patrol I don't need a class A presence. http://i.imgur.com/wz5aw.jpg HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!! YOU GOT LEG POCKETS ON YOUR PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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