This.

We need to go back to the "good ole days."

Just type in "militarization of civilian police" for some interesting reading from both sides of the argument. Now having said that and before the flamethrowers come out I would like to say that I am a Certified LEO and have been for almost 15 years this March. I also believe that Civilian Police are becoming Militarized in the good ole U.S.A.
Lets discuss it in a rational adult manner instead of acting like children.

I know this is GD but lets try.

Oh!



My!



God!



The fucking Humanity!!!!!



5.11!



My working uniform is a 5.11 polo or button down embroidered and 5.11 or tru-spec pants!



Why? because they are more comfortable and cost less than class A's with all the shiney shit and unless I'm actually working patrol I don't need a class A presence.

Yep, don't see as many phone books around with the Internet.  Do they use keyboards now?

If they want to "feel" safer, let 'em.  

What should they be wearing, in your opinion? Does their wear of cargo pants make them less or more professional? What exactly is about cargo pants which you find so offensive?

The only people killed by those two Hollywood Shootout were themselves. No police officer or citizen died only the perps despite 1,750 rounds traded back and forth.

I'll play.

Making law enforcement more capable to respond to active shooting, terrorist or large-scale unrest is a good thing. Give them the tools they need to win the fight and protect society in general. Overall most of the things people decry as "tactical" like pants pockets, Aimpoints or rifle plates are tools that make the officers job easier or more effective. I don't want officers responding to an active shooter situation that involves my family with a .38spl revolver and 12ga full of buckshot. That's just dumb.

If a LEO goes all JBT then deal with that officer. If a department is wholesale trampling on the rights of the citizenry then deal with that.

But to deny an individual officer the tools and gear he needs (and more criminal in my mind...the training) to be effective in responding to am myriad of threats is flat retarded. It either stems from (1) a dislike of LEO in general so.....fuck 'em (2) a complete misunderstanding of the threats that exist in the world (3) a lack of understanding of how those tools work.

I can believe item 1 because....well....the level of cop hate in GD is astounding. I can believe item 2. There are clearly people in GD who don't feel Islam is a threat or that we have enemies in this world. Item three is easily believed when people continue to misunderstand the employment of a red-dot sight or the use of a flashlight. Wrap that all together in a big sandwich and you get people getting frothy over pockets on pants.

 

You are clueless to what that ruling means.

Mark Twain once said
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. "

They also refuse to accept that those "Kinder, Gentler Peace Officers" would have beaten them senseless for just Looking at them the wrong way....nevermind the fact that Corruption was rampant, and training pretty much nonexistant during those " Heady days of Yore"

Well I'm sure that those 11 wounded cops are comforted by your and Willie's statements................................

Yea, I'd bet a lot of money they had no problem beating the tar out of someone for jay walking if they got the notion.

I'm far more concerned about the Dept. of Agriculture, FDA, Postal Service, etc. having SWAT teams.  

When I was a kid, Officer Friendly stopped and harassed kids driving in town for trumped up bullshit reasons just like today.

Uniform has changed.  Probably not much else.  Too many no knocks, though.

TC

Those  who  look  and  behave  like  loosers  usually  are.

Repeat topic troll thread.

Yep, if I was a police officer I would want every advantage afforded to me. I have no problem with it because I know the amount of dirtbags our there. However, the FDA, EPA, and etc. should not be carrying guns or even rape whistles.

When I came on the department in 2001, there were still some old timers from the 70's.  Some of the stories they told are mind blowing.

I started in 87..we still had one guy who had come on in the 1950's..., and the rest of the senior guys had come on in the mid 60's  Talk about some Scary Mothers

Except the silly cowboy boots (which would get them left behind in a foot chase with a drunken toddler on any terrain but hard, dry dirt) these guys knew how to get stuff done.

Yes, and there are Supreme Court cases in place as a result of how the old timers got things done.



If there was an internet in the 70's, and this website existed, I couldn't imagine the hand wringing there would have been over how the police acted.

I know I'll get slapped for this but......

I started this gig 30 years ago, and yes,-we did dress like those guys from Texas, and this was in central Nevada.
No, we did not wear body armor, because it was to expensive, and no, we did not carry handheld radios, because they were to expensive.
I had a JeepWagoner with lights, siren and was a piece of crap. The radio sometimes worked, depending on where you were in the county.

My rifle at the time was an M-1 Garand. And it was issued. I had a choice, an 03-A3 or the Garand.
We did carry wheelguns, and I still have mine, but the Glock 40 I now carry is lighter, holds more, (gasp) dreaded hollow-point ammunition. (Which we were not allowed to carry when I started)
The uniforms were wrangler levis types, and tan shirts, and were expensive as hell at the time when you only made $398.00 a paycheck with a family to feed and other expenses.
The only issue item was the rifle, shotgun, and the car.

These days with the cargo pants, (god, what is the world coming too!), and now the cargo shirts with hidden pockets, what next?

As for the armor and the weapons. It's the changing of the times. Just as the military adapted to changes in their environment, we have adapted in ours.
In the late 80's, I switched to a Steyr-Aug. That was the Cats-ass weapon at the time. The Garand went away back to the armory.
I actually bought my own armor, at $1200.00, because by my 5th year into it, (1989) I had 4 friends who were shot down in the line of duty.

Now––yes, I have a plate carrier, and yes I have an up to date ACH helmet, and yes, I carry a very modern assault rifle with a military light with IR capability and yes, I have modern night vision as well. And I even have a commo setup that's wired to my radios and I wear under my helmet. And the dreaded black uniform, nope, I have green BDU's because I hate black clothes.
Do I wear this stuff all the time, hell no. Do I train with it, ––-all the time. Do I like to "frighten the public". Not a chance.

You know why I have this stuff?
The current body count of friends lost is 17, with others shot up.
Because in the end, if I have to go to an active shooter, or a bank robbery, or a domestic where some clown has a Remington 700 hunting rifle, or AK-47, SKS, etc, etc, I want to be able to protect myself or someone else that the whack-job is trying to kill.

The end result guys/gals, is this. I am going home at the end of the day, unless it is just "my day".
But, I am gonna protect myself and those around me, and those that want to call me a "jack-booted thug, you go ahead, I know different.

My job is still Serve and Protect and always will be––-

Back then they would not hesitate to lay someone out. That was back when policing was policing, not just "law enforcement". Today's approach is a lot softer compared to yesterday's. Many posters here would decry that too. Personally, I'd rather see more people get their asses kicked/shot and less process. That's part of why our prisons are so crowded.

It's all a product of our litigious society. PC also required the recruitment of police that were physically unable to hold their own.

In the end it's not police that are to blame for the shift in police culture, it's the citizens that they serve.

Great post.

Oakleys - Check

Tactical Gloves - Check

Knee & Elbow Pads - Check

Ballistic Helmet - Check

Nomex Black Flight Suit - Check

Colt M4 with Aimpoint and Surefire accessories (including latest Vertical handgrip from Gucchi) - Check

Thigh Holster with Lanyard attached to pistol - Check

Tactical Instructor Belt for times when you need to rapell from the 100th floor - (Hey...who forgot the ropes?) - Check

Getting out of the air conditioned van for a 1/2 block walk before needing to take a sip from the Camelback complete with Gatorade - Check

yup...they are all set

Times change. So does equipment, training and the need (both percieved and real). It's nice to have the high speed gear when you need it. It is overused sometimes, but it's better to have it and not need it right?

OH, and to the retards that think "the good old days" were better... That's fine, we can play 1950's cop... But, you give me back talk and I'll split your wig. Miranda? fuck you. Terry rule? fuck you. Do what I say or I beat you down. You wanna do what? File a complaint? sure come on back to the office and I'll file your complaint. You may need a trip to the hospital after, but we'll get it done for you.

Sometimes you guys are real winners.

Ahh, yes. I remember the days I was little and was told if I ever got lost, find a police officer. Now, I normally find myself walking up to them and asking if I can bump a mag.

I have to agree with that

Dress them up like Military and some will feel the need to act the part
BUT those ones also seem to view the Public as the enemy.

An officer should be dressed as an officer

Example



and not as Military unless they are specifically part of a full-time SWAT team

I don't care what uniform they wear as long as they are clearly identified.  The shit people think is a big deal...

Ain't that the truth

That's interesting that you (and many others in these threads) are so quick to go with "if you want us to be more like the good old days I'll be happy to bust your teeth in".  If only there were a term for a false dichotomy like that.

This.  Very excellent post.

Cops are underpaid, overworked and under-appreciated.  Having said that, a little politeness goes a LONG ways.



Hey, in this video, Granny was in the wrong.  The officer could have de-escalated with just a few words...  "Ma'am, the faster I can get your drivers license and registration, the faster I can get you to the bathroom."

"Verbal Judo" by Dr George J. Thompson teaches "the principles and tactics to use "Presence and Words" to calm difficult people who may be under severe emotional or other influences, redirect the behavior of hostile people, diffuse potentially dangerous situations, perform professionally under all conditions and achieve the desired outcome of the encounter."  I seem to remember my sister got a course in verbal judo at the academy.

Ok, I'm going to get flamed for this but let's consider Iraq for a moment.  From 2004 -2008 convoys would routinely run people off roads, bust out the windows of cars following too closely and a whole host of other aggressive driving techniques.  They were doing it for their own safety, but consider the consequences... Do you think that was endearing us to the common Iraqi citizen or encouraging folks to take pot shots to us?  I GUARANTEE if UN envoy vehicle convoys were running citizens off the road and busting out windows of people driving too closely on the way to the UN headquarters that Americans would be taking pot shots at them.

Politeness goes a long way.  Cops can be armed/armored/black pocketed pants'd to the teeth but still be polite and I guarantee you'll have a better outcome.

I prefer this picture...

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed

Yes we have some real "winners" here to use the same terminology.

lol. Because everyone knows that "lawmen" during the '50s-'60s didn't own rifle rifles and hunt deer every season...

AKs or not, that sittuation wouldn't have lasted half as long in a city were cops are allowed to have long guns in their patrol cars.

Rural cops from the '50's > urban cops from present day LA.

I have old school cops in my family. You think the "good old days" were like Mayberry, you are a fucking fool.

They don't pay for it. We do. Why not play commando.

I always wear sunglasses when I clear a building.

(Goes back and rereads what I wrote)  Nope nothing in there about the world being all gumdrops and rainbows.

I'll summarize my two sentance post for you: It's scary how many officers reply to "You shouldn't dress like ninjas" with "Okay, but I get to make you eat your teeth."

Great post.





 

Everything I wear or use at work with the exception of the radio and car was bought by me.  I know the same is true for Bama and a bunch of other guys on here.

You know....I didn't know who Sheriff Jack Carter was so I googled him to find out his department, region of the country, etc,.

Here's what wiki has to say about him:



Therefore I am not impressed by your argument.

Ah, yes.

The good Ol' Days



Today the kid would be screamin' for his mama.

You realize that happened 15+ years ago??

Not exactly an everyday occurence in a nation of over 300 million people.

But I suppose the cops need their toys:  APCs, drones, surveillance rigs, etc.

4073

All up in this shit.






 

Good man.
Please mail a DNA sample to FBI HQ so they can clone you.

Well, then you better take our light packages away. They are illegal for civvies.





 

Fantastic post.

I'm sure all the militarization hurr durr types will gloss right over the bold part.

He must have you confused with someone else.