Black clad "Coperators" ruin policing image. UPDATE PAGE 17, with REAL SWAT ACTION PICS!!! - Page 5

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Black clad "Coperators" ruin policing image. UPDATE PAGE 17, with REAL SWAT ACTION PICS!!! (Page 5 of 27)

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:08:39 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

As it was stated earlier, the police were uniformed like CAVALRY troopers for much of the 20th century. They just changed the color from green to blue and put on a badge.

Law enforcement was always been para-military.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:09:13 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If my dad wanted a full Kevlar kit from his department, he could get it. If my dad wanted night vision from his department, he could get it. If he wanted an AR, all he has to do is sign on the dotted line.

But he's only given 50 rounds of ammunition a year to qualify with and carry.

Somehow I think priorities are getting screwed up.

Yep. It's a shame that training isn't as high of priority as gear.

In a perfect, non-GD retardfest world, they would have both.

Given the OP's initial post, I think a pertinent question would be why are departments spending all of their money on paramilitary gear and not on training when training has a greater impact on any given situation than gear?

The obvious answer is that departments have a love affair with "tacticoolness". So while the officer may have better gear, the public impression of police is that that they are well equipped morons, because they lack even a basic level of training.

Before you flame me for being a hater, let me say that my dad and other guys in his department feel the same way - but they'd never say it publically.

Choosing gear over training will be a losing game for law enforcement. Going this route will make every department look like my county sheriffs department, where every deputy is issued a FA M 16 as a trunk gun, but the department won't spend the money for drug testing those deputies. Obvious results are obvious.

How do you know they get less training and more gear? You get that info from the scary JBT internet pictures you've seen?

Departments around here get very good training.

Maybe you missed where I said I'm talking about my dads department.

Maybe you could use some training on how to read.

Heh, was waiting for that. I don't put any stock in that kind of BS. I hear, 'my SWAT dad says this' and 'my SF ranger uncle' says that' a lot. Not saying you're a BSer but I'm just cynical now towards people that say things like that in an argument.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:09:32 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If my dad wanted a full Kevlar kit from his department, he could get it. If my dad wanted night vision from his department, he could get it. If he wanted an AR, all he has to do is sign on the dotted line.

But he's only given 50 rounds of ammunition a year to qualify with and carry.

Somehow I think priorities are getting screwed up.

Yep. It's a shame that training isn't as high of priority as gear.

In a perfect, non-GD retardfest world, they would have both.

Given the OP's initial post, I think a pertinent question would be why are departments spending all of their money on paramilitary gear and not on training when training has a greater impact on any given situation than gear?

The obvious answer is that departments have a love affair with "tacticoolness". So while the officer may have better gear, the public impression of police is that that they are well equipped morons, because they lack even a basic level of training.

Before you flame me for being a hater, let me say that my dad and other guys in his department feel the same way - but they'd never say it publically.

Choosing gear over training will be a losing game for law enforcement. Going this route will make every department look like my county sheriffs department, where every deputy is issued a FA M 16 as a trunk gun, but the department won't spend the money for drug testing those deputies. Obvious results are obvious.

Because equipment is cheap, and tends to come in form of grants where as training is more expensive... and needs to be ongoing.

Plus, there are less grant availability.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:09:52 AM EDT

[#4]

Militarization of the Police!

Armored Cars!

Military Uniforms!

Military Weapons!

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:09:57 AM EDT

[#5]

Equipment has almost nothing to do with this "militarization", I don't see why so many critics get hung up on it especially when a lot of the stuff is pretty basic. Body armor, carbines, even an uparmored vehicle for large organizations...big freaking deal. It's their method of operation that's what really matters.

I could care less if the sheriff's department is rolling around in MRAPs so long as they aren't going full retard on some guy's house based on a single report from a confidential informant. On the other hand you could limit police to batons and .38 revolvers yet if they're kicking down your door at 2am over a bag of marijuana then it's still a serious problem so stop focusing on equipment. This stigma that's being attached to vests, helmets and carbines is just going to keep those items from officers who need them.

The fact that the elected leadership in some localities can't seem to understand a SWAT team's usefulness without oodles of data quantifying their benefit is probably a bigger factor in their overuse rather than what toys the police are using.

I can't imagine what kind of clusterfucks there would be if some of the clandestine units like Delta had to jusify their existence every year lest their funding get pulled and their organization disbanded.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:10:17 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nope we haven't.
Hell I still wear a metal badge pinned to a hot ass polyester shirt.
The same shirt that cost what 3 5.11 embroided shirts cost.

Eh. Well marked polo shirts actually make nice, professional looking, uniforms.

So just what do you guys keep in your cargo pockets that would be lost if you went with non-pocketed pants?

I don't wear cargo pants, to scary.
I have to put my trama kit in my back pocket.

What does it matter what we put in our fucking pockets.
We tote around so much crap that 2 extra pockets would be nice.

But being scary and all we're not allowed.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:10:30 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

First: Because it would Vastly improve the public's view and remove much of the US and Them mentality.

Second: Did I ever say They should not have effective equipment?
The Officers I have seen around here wear a vest under their shirt so what
does it batter if it is a Mil type shirt or a Peace office looking shirt?.

As far as weapons which one has more "stopping power" 12 Ga Slug or .223
As far as rifles swap out the Black plastic and put on Wood or wood grain Plastic.
(remember Public Perception, after all a police officer is a PUBLIC Servant)

So what kind of furniture is on your AR?

Ask yourself this question

Which rifle looks scarier to Joe Q Public an all Black rifle, or one with wood Furniture?

If I was going to walk down the road to the range with a rifle which
one would tend to get someone to freak out over me carrying it?

Depends on where you are.

ETA: You remind of a local CLEO who feels that the shotguns are kept in the trunk to avoid 'scary the public' when it is in the front compartment of the car.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:10:46 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

Pedantic post is pedantic.

I'm not talking about cops being walking execution squads, I'm talking about when a police officer has to employ deadly force in the scope of his work.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:12:44 AM EDT

[#9]

I'm surprised a sovereign citizen hasn't posted anything about admiralty flags yet.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:12:44 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't think I've ever seen a coperator in the wild except on dress up days, I mean SRT/ERT/SWAT training days. (Heh, coperator. Nice.)

Besides what's the big deal with equipping a guy for the task at hand?

Quoted:

Quoted:
You own a plate carrier, pants with cargo pockets and an AR OP?

Do these guys? And I bet they could handle their shit.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qlUEV6bKv4Q/TfZZtjt_nJI/AAAAAAAAABk/kfHGv2yts9k/s1600/lawmen+mainst+sepia.jpg

Somehow these guys look more menacing than the ninjaclowns in your original post.

My thought as well. I can almost see and hear one of them gnawing on toothpick and asking "Is there problem here . . . Boy?"

HAAAA!!!!!!

Sounds like my hometown in Alabama 35 years ago.

We haven't changed much.

Nope we haven't.
Hell I still wear a metal badge pinned to a hot ass polyester shirt.
The same shirt that cost what 3 5.11 embroided shirts cost.

I wish Alabama would get some white shirts or something cooler for the cops.
My hometown still wears what you describe. At least last time I was home.
When I visit my other hometown in PR, the cops wear thin light colored shirts.

White shirts?
Hell I can't imagine what I'd look like by the end of shift.

There is a reason why the brass wear white shirts... the same brass inside all day..in the AC...

Only thing they have to worry about is coffee stains.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:12:54 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

I take it you don't train with many cops?

I don't follow how training with cops changes their duty, authority, or Job.

Bad guys die sometimes, but they are not tasked with killing "badguys", it is incidental to their job. That many feel like that's what they're meant to do, does give creedence to the concerns in the OP. But that fault doesn't lie with their attire.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:13:20 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is this one better

http://www.deschutes.org/getattachment/Sheriffs-Office/Larry-Blanton,-Sheriff/Sheriff-Blanton-001.jpg.aspx

Sure.

Not sure what it has to do with anything however.

Your argument that "an officer should look like an officer" makes no sense. Especially given the picture posted earlier in this thread of cops on bikes with mounted machine guns.

It's that sort of backward thinking that results in "officers with rifles are scary" and "uniforms shouldn't have pockets" and other such horseshit.

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

All military pattern uniforms. The change to polyster monkey suits is something that came along in more modern history.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:13:34 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ask yourself this question

Which rifle looks scarier to Joe Q Public an all Black rifle, or one with wood Furniture?

If I was going to walk down the road to the range with a rifle which
one would tend to get someone to freak out over me carrying it?

Ask yourself this question: who cares?

Seriously. The general public knows jack and shit about policing.

Making policy around what would scare the general population is a horrible idea.

Make policy around what is most effective to accomplish the task at hand.

Remember the bitching about the Nat Guards at the airports right after 9/11?

Stupid sheep are stupid.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:14:30 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

Pedantic post is pedantic.

I'm not talking about cops being walking execution squads, I'm talking about when a police officer has to employ deadly force in the scope of his work.

But it gives you wood to IMPLY and PRETEND that "killing bad guys" is what you're sworn to do. That's why you phrased it like you did.

Pretend swagger.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:14:43 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

I take it you don't train with many cops?

I don't follow how training with cops changes their duty, authority, or Job.

Bad guys die sometimes, but they are not tasked with killing "badguys", it is incidental to their job. That many feel like that's what they're meant to do, does give creedence to the concerns in the OP. But that fault doesn't lie with their attire.

I was referencing their mindset and attitude towards killing badguys.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:16:44 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'd like to see what the general accepted definition of "militarization" is here on ARF.

It all starts with those cargo pockets.

Then they want those "spray-n-pray" assault weapons.

Next thing you know, they're marching people into internment camps.

Only makes sense to stop it at the "pockets" stage.

I've seen the train cars and plastic coffins!

How've you been man? Haven't seen you around.

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:17:43 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nope we haven't.
Hell I still wear a metal badge pinned to a hot ass polyester shirt.
The same shirt that cost what 3 5.11 embroided shirts cost.

Eh. Well marked polo shirts actually make nice, professional looking, uniforms.

So just what do you guys keep in your cargo pockets that would be lost if you went with non-pocketed pants?

My left cargo pocket has my leather gloves. knife/utility pocket on left side has pocket tape recorder. Right cargo pocket has my note pad, miranda card, business cards.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:18:11 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
But it gives you wood to IMPLY and PRETEND that "killing bad guys" is what you're sworn to do. That's why you phrased it like you did.

Pretend swagger.

You realize I am a middle-aged, over-weight, out of shape industrial salesman right?

I am sworn to do jack and shit.

Yes, somehow I understand that police officers have to occasionally employ deadly force and that it is reasonable to support making them as effective and efficient at that as possible. This protects society at large (ie stops bad guy from killing more innocents, avoids collateral damage) and could possibly protect me personally should me/my family be part of a bad situation.

I really fail to understand why people are arguing to make the police less effective at their jobs to benefit society. Whether it be giving them better training, better weapons, better personal protection gear, better trauma kits or the oft-ridiculed pants pockets, I just really don't understand why people are arguing to handcuff the very people tasked to protect us.

Before you go on a rant about civil rights, no knock warrants and the evils of the WOD let me remind you I've already posted that individual bad actors (or whole departments) should be dealt with if found guilty of wrong doings. So don't paint this as if I'm saying police should run willy nilly.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:18:25 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

I'm in the same class.

I'll be wearing cargo pockets.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:18:42 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'd like to see what the general accepted definition of "militarization" is here on ARF.

It all starts with those cargo pockets.

Then they want those "spray-n-pray" assault weapons.

Next thing you know, they're marching people into internment camps.

Only makes sense to stop it at the "pockets" stage.

I've seen the train cars and plastic coffins!

How've you been man? Haven't seen you around.

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

Why the hell do you coperators need these "trauma kits"? The public would have a way better perception of you without these "trauma kits".

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:19:52 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

I take it you don't train with many cops?

I don't follow how training with cops changes their duty, authority, or Job.

Bad guys die sometimes, but they are not tasked with killing "badguys", it is incidental to their job. That many feel like that's what they're meant to do, does give creedence to the concerns in the OP. But that fault doesn't lie with their attire.

I was referencing their mindset and attitude towards killing badguys.

The mindset is valid, in threat/force scenarios.

I took issue with the poster implying that killing badguys is their job. Shooting to kill is shooting to stop, but if the bad guy doesn't expire and it's safe their job doesn't require that he dies no matter what.

Judge Dred, we don't has yet. Although many fap vigorously to the idea.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:20:39 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'd like to see what the general accepted definition of "militarization" is here on ARF.

It all starts with those cargo pockets.

Then they want those "spray-n-pray" assault weapons.

Next thing you know, they're marching people into internment camps.

Only makes sense to stop it at the "pockets" stage.

I've seen the train cars and plastic coffins!

How've you been man? Haven't seen you around.

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

Fascist

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:21:47 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I know I'll get slapped for this but......

I started this gig 30 years ago, and yes,-we did dress like those guys from Texas, and this was in central Nevada.
No, we did not wear body armor, because it was to expensive, and no, we did not carry handheld radios, because they were to expensive.
I had a JeepWagoner with lights, siren and was a piece of crap. The radio sometimes worked, depending on where you were in the county.

My rifle at the time was an M-1 Garand. And it was issued. I had a choice, an 03-A3 or the Garand.
We did carry wheelguns, and I still have mine, but the Glock 40 I now carry is lighter, holds more, (gasp) dreaded hollow-point ammunition. (Which we were not allowed to carry when I started)
The uniforms were wrangler levis types, and tan shirts, and were expensive as hell at the time when you only made $398.00 a paycheck with a family to feed and other expenses.
The only issue item was the rifle, shotgun, and the car.

These days with the cargo pants, (god, what is the world coming too!), and now the cargo shirts with hidden pockets, what next?

As for the armor and the weapons. It's the changing of the times. Just as the military adapted to changes in their environment, we have adapted in ours.
In the late 80's, I switched to a Steyr-Aug. That was the Cats-ass weapon at the time. The Garand went away back to the armory.
I actually bought my own armor, at $1200.00, because by my 5th year into it, (1989) I had 4 friends who were shot down in the line of duty.

Now––yes, I have a plate carrier, and yes I have an up to date ACH helmet, and yes, I carry a very modern assault rifle with a military light with IR capability and yes, I have modern night vision as well. And I even have a commo setup that's wired to my radios and I wear under my helmet. And the dreaded black uniform, nope, I have green BDU's because I hate black clothes.
Do I wear this stuff all the time, hell no. Do I train with it, ––-all the time. Do I like to "frighten the public". Not a chance.

You know why I have this stuff?
The current body count of friends lost is 17, with others shot up.
Because in the end, if I have to go to an active shooter, or a bank robbery, or a domestic where some clown has a Remington 700 hunting rifle, or AK-47, SKS, etc, etc, I want to be able to protect myself or someone else that the whack-job is trying to kill.

The end result guys/gals, is this. I am going home at the end of the day, unless it is just "my day".
But, I am gonna protect myself and those around me, and those that want to call me a "jack-booted thug, you go ahead, I know different.

My job is still Serve and Protect and always will be––-

Ok, so what's changed? How do you explain the fact that less protective equipment was needed to do the job back in the days when TRUE assault weapons were less restricted and easier to come by?

I mean, AK's and Stoner rifles have been around since the 40's/50's and are just as lethal today as they were back then. And yet, no police in ninja gear were required. Not to mention the fact that back in the day every farm boy came up knowing how to handle a high powered rifle. The threat was always there.

So what's the real excuse for the ninja gear? IMO, machine guns certainly haven't gotten any easier to come by these days.

Because they could shoot any felon that they encountered.

Running from a burglary - BANG

Assaulting an officer - BANG

Robbery - BANG

Etc. etc.

Same thing with physical force.

You are under arrest.

What, no...........

Smack to the back of the head with a sap.

Lead lined gloves, saps, blackjacks, used against the head, all acceptable.

––––––––––––––––––––––-

Now use of force, officers have to prove the suspect presented an immediate deadly threat before resorting to lethal force.

Lots of the old school "stop the fight" physical force, would now be considered deadly force and are not allowed.

The public is also far less accepting of the police using force.

So, if you are more restricted when using force, and have to wait to your life is in danger, you are probably going to need more protective gear.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:22:08 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Why the hell do you coperators need these "trauma kits"? The public would have a way better perception of you without these "trauma kits".

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:22:08 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

I take it you don't train with many cops?

I don't follow how training with cops changes their duty, authority, or Job.

Bad guys die sometimes, but they are not tasked with killing "badguys", it is incidental to their job. That many feel like that's what they're meant to do, does give creedence to the concerns in the OP. But that fault doesn't lie with their attire.

I was referencing their mindset and attitude towards killing badguys.

The mindset is valid, in threat/force scenarios.

I took issue with the poster implying that killing badguys is their job. Shooting to kill is shooting to stop, but if the bad guy doesn't expire and it's safe their job doesn't require that he dies no matter what.

Judge Dred, we don't has yet. Although many fap vigorously to the idea.

Word.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:22:25 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But it gives you wood to IMPLY and PRETEND that "killing bad guys" is what you're sworn to do. That's why you phrased it like you did.

Pretend swagger.

You realize I am a middle-aged, over-weight, out of shape industrial salesman right?

I am sworn to do jack and shit.

Yes, somehow I understand that police officers have to employ deadly force and that it is reasonable to support making them as effective and efficient at that as possible. This protects society at large (ie stops bad guy from killing more innocents, avoids collateral damage) and could possible protect me personally should me/my family be part of a bad situation.

Stopping the threat may include killing but it is not a requirement as was implied by your post.

I don't want cops running around in public looking for people to kill. That's what your post implied they are supposed to do.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:22:26 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Militarization of the Police!

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575324_10150832632687216_333267278_n.jpg

Armored Cars!
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/536029_10150832626102216_114238542215_12052208_577312751_n.jpg

Military Uniforms!
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/540171_10150857087472216_1300146694_n.jpg

Military Weapons!
http://i50.tinypic.com/r0wprb.jpg

Huh your point?

I didn't see one single cargo pocket.
Troll much?

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:22:27 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Times change. So does equipment, training and the need (both percieved and real). It's nice to have the high speed gear when you need it. It is overused sometimes, but it's better to have it and not need it right?

OH, and to the retards that think "the good old days" were better... That's fine, we can play 1950's cop... But, you give me back talk and I'll split your wig. Miranda? fuck you. Terry rule? fuck you. Do what I say or I beat you down. You wanna do what? File a complaint? sure come on back to the office and I'll file your complaint. You may need a trip to the hospital after, but we'll get it done for you.

Sometimes you guys are real winners.

So tactical coperators or corrupt assholes are our only two options?

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:23:08 AM EDT

[#29]

Actually as a LEO I dont feel better when you have "Bad Ass Toys". I would feel better if all LEO's had better training on the "Toy's" either bad ass or non bad ass.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:23:12 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Why the hell do you coperators need these "trauma kits"? The public would have a way better perception of you without these "trauma kits".

Probably has a velcro closure on it too.

I think velcro's role in society is often misunderstood and it's evil's poorly grasped.

Ban velcro for the children.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:23:51 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

So dressing up a Police Office as a Military Member makes People feel safer?

Remember I am talking about the uniform.

You guys are too dumb to realize that the police uniforms are essentially a "Class B" military uniform.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:23:53 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If my dad wanted a full Kevlar kit from his department, he could get it. If my dad wanted night vision from his department, he could get it. If he wanted an AR, all he has to do is sign on the dotted line.

But he's only given 50 rounds of ammunition a year to qualify with and carry.

Somehow I think priorities are getting screwed up.

Yep. It's a shame that training isn't as high of priority as gear.

In a perfect, non-GD retardfest world, they would have both.

Given the OP's initial post, I think a pertinent question would be why are departments spending all of their money on paramilitary gear and not on training when training has a greater impact on any given situation than gear?

The obvious answer is that departments have a love affair with "tacticoolness". So while the officer may have better gear, the public impression of police is that that they are well equipped morons, because they lack even a basic level of training.

Before you flame me for being a hater, let me say that my dad and other guys in his department feel the same way - but they'd never say it publically.

Choosing gear over training will be a losing game for law enforcement. Going this route will make every department look like my county sheriffs department, where every deputy is issued a FA M 16 as a trunk gun, but the department won't spend the money for drug testing those deputies. Obvious results are obvious.

How do you know they get less training and more gear? You get that info from the scary JBT internet pictures you've seen?

Departments around here get very good training.

Maybe you missed where I said I'm talking about my dads department.

Maybe you could use some training on how to read.

Heh, was waiting for that. I don't put any stock in that kind of BS. I hear, 'my SWAT dad says this' and 'my SF ranger uncle' says that' a lot. Not saying you're a BSer but I'm just cynical now towards people that say things like that in an argument.

Yeah, this thread has gone the way every cop thread does.
Cop haters hate & accuse cops of everything.
Cops tow the thin blue line & admit nothing.

Sorry for trying to interject an adult voice into the conversation.

You guys go back to posting pics and talking about pockets.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:24:04 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I took issue with the poster implying that killing badguys is their job.

I said it was part of their job.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:24:27 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Oh. I wouldn't know. Police officers around here don't wear military uniforms.

Nor the majority of ours (except for swat teams etc).

Then I don't get your point.

You seem to acknowledge the lack of an issue.

My issue is actually Very Simple

I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers

Military Member on the Left, Police Officer on the right

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:24:42 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No LEO should be allowed to own, carry, or otherwise possess anything that is illegal for Joe citizen to. No exemptions period.

In places like NYC, Shitcago, and CA, cops would be nothing more than meter maids with rape whistles.

In Texas cops could only CCW. In VA they if they want to walk around OCing their pistol and AR15, have at it.

If you're worried about this rule having an adverse affected on LEO saftey, repeal your shit gun control laws.

I really, REALLY like this post.

I couldn't agree more with this.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:25:09 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But it gives you wood to IMPLY and PRETEND that "killing bad guys" is what you're sworn to do. That's why you phrased it like you did.

Pretend swagger.

You realize I am a middle-aged, over-weight, out of shape industrial salesman right?

I am sworn to do jack and shit.

Yes, somehow I understand that police officers have to employ deadly force and that it is reasonable to support making them as effective and efficient at that as possible. This protects society at large (ie stops bad guy from killing more innocents, avoids collateral damage) and could possible protect me personally should me/my family be part of a bad situation.

Stopping the threat may include killing but it is not a requirement as was implied by your post.

I don't want cops running around in public looking for people to kill. That's what your post implied they are supposed to do.

No, that is what you and your agenda took from it.

That's a you problem.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:25:27 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

I'm in the same class.

I'll be wearing cargo pockets.

So you can carry more...

I don't even have to say it. That's how (in)famous you are!

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:25:37 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Oh. I wouldn't know. Police officers around here don't wear military uniforms.

Nor the majority of ours (except for swat teams etc).

Then I don't get your point.

You seem to acknowledge the lack of an issue.

My issue is actually Very Simple

I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers

Military Member on the Left, Police Officer on the right

http://dmna.ny.gov/home/storyimages/Stefik%20Award%20Photo.JPG

And they do, and you said they do. Bold above.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:25:58 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is this one better

http://www.deschutes.org/getattachment/Sheriffs-Office/Larry-Blanton,-Sheriff/Sheriff-Blanton-001.jpg.aspx

Sure.

Not sure what it has to do with anything however.

Your argument that "an officer should look like an officer" makes no sense. Especially given the picture posted earlier in this thread of cops on bikes with mounted machine guns.

It's that sort of backward thinking that results in "officers with rifles are scary" and "uniforms shouldn't have pockets" and other such horseshit.

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

http://www.risp.state.ri.us/img/TROOPER.jpg

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/assets/0/117/8589934998/f533bdaf-5f17-4cc9-8cb2-abccdfa0f24d.jpeg?n=1889

http://lawenforcementtoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Sheriff-Andy-Taylor.jpeg

All military pattern uniforms. The change to polyster monkey suits is something that came along in more modern history.

Jesus Bama, get with the program.
This is about pockets, evil cargo pockets.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:26:19 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Actually as a LEO I dont feel better when you have "Bad Ass Toys". I would feel better if all LEO's had better training on the "Toy's" either bad ass or non bad ass.

Careful, logic is not allowed around here.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:26:22 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Times change. So does equipment, training and the need (both percieved and real). It's nice to have the high speed gear when you need it. It is overused sometimes, but it's better to have it and not need it right?

OH, and to the retards that think "the good old days" were better... That's fine, we can play 1950's cop... But, you give me back talk and I'll split your wig. Miranda? fuck you. Terry rule? fuck you. Do what I say or I beat you down. You wanna do what? File a complaint? sure come on back to the office and I'll file your complaint. You may need a trip to the hospital after, but we'll get it done for you.

Sometimes you guys are real winners.

So tactical coperators or corrupt assholes are our only two options?

Go back up and continue reading.

Fucking G/D...

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:26:50 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No LEO should be allowed to own, carry, or otherwise possess anything that is illegal for Joe citizen to. No exemptions period.

In places like NYC, Shitcago, and CA, cops would be nothing more than meter maids with rape whistles.

In Texas cops could only CCW. In VA they if they want to walk around OCing their pistol and AR15, have at it.

If you're worried about this rule having an adverse affected on LEO saftey, repeal your shit gun control laws.

I really, REALLY like this post.

I couldn't agree more with this.

Ditto.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:27:07 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Why the hell do you coperators need these "trauma kits"? The public would have a way better perception of you without these "trauma kits".

To treat life threatening major wounds till EMS arrives on scene. The first five minutes can be the difference between life and death.

<––-ALS/CLS trained. I carry one trauma kit up front in my cruiser and one ony active shooter vest. I also carry those scary CPR sheilds.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:27:24 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

My issue is actually Very Simple

I honestly believe that Police Officers should look like Police Officers

Yet you've given no reasoning or validation for this viewpoint other than it's what you feel is right.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:27:48 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An officer should look like a PEACE officer not like a member of a Military division.

The real issue is some play dress and forget they are Public Servants.

First sentence: Why? Because you say so? Fuck that. Let me guess....you are against facial hair too?

Second: You do realize that killing badguys quickly and effectively is part of a police officer's responsibility and that activity is part of serving the public right? Yes, they have a whole myriad of other tasks that don't involve force. But when that force is needed it should be delivered quickly, effectively and without remorse.

Giving them the tools to do that only makes sense.

You have zero duty or authority to kill badguys. If they die by your hand during your duty to stop a threat, subdue and arrest, or defending yourself, that's a lawful side effect of your deadly force authorization.

It is not your job to KILL bad guys.

Pretend swagger is what that is.

Pedantic post is pedantic.

I'm not talking about cops being walking execution squads, I'm talking about when a police officer has to employ deadly force in the scope of his work.

But it gives you wood to IMPLY and PRETEND that "killing bad guys" is what you're sworn to do. That's why you phrased it like you did.

Pretend swagger.

And I give you our second nominee.
Come on Hugo you know what was meant by that.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:28:08 AM EDT

[#46]

I look at it this way, if I was doing the job that they do, here's the list of gear and clothing I'd want to use [insert huge list of crap here].

Why would I carp on about what the guys on the job actually use when I would look like a cross between a ninja and an orbital dropship trooper?

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:28:43 AM EDT

[#47]

So, how many of you guys own multicam in three different color schemes, plate carriers and buy all the little bits of military surplus from the Sportsman's Guide?

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:29:08 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Actually as a LEO I dont feel better when you have "Bad Ass Toys". I would feel better if all LEO's had better training on the "Toy's" either bad ass or non bad ass.

Careful, logic is not allowed around here.

This is the true answer but people are too hung up on cops with pockets and their rifles not having wood grained plastic to get to any sensible discussion.

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:29:13 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

I'm in the same class.

I'll be wearing cargo pockets.

Who? What? When? Where?

Posted: 10/1/2012 7:29:43 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Busy as hell. Tis the season.

Going to be in the ham for 2 days this week for some gunshot trama training.

Sure wish I had cargo pockets to tote my trama kit in

I'm in the same class.

I'll be wearing cargo pockets.

Cool see you there.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Black clad "Coperators" ruin policing image. UPDATE PAGE 17, with REAL SWAT ACTION PICS!!! (Page 5 of 27)

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