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Quoted: Made it easier for him to see the question. @Chiefkeefdeltateam View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I support the 2A, but I'm not going to jail for breaking an unconstitutional law. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/laugh-29.gif That right there is why you should not ever be taken seriously. You better turn all your guns in now because eventually all of them will be banned. You still haven't answer the question asked earlier.Do you have an Illinois FOID? Made it easier for him to see the question. @Chiefkeefdeltateam |
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Quoted: They have been making that argument for a while. Gatling,no trigger open bolt, Shoestring MG, Akins accelerator, bump stock... "Function of the trigger" has been "trigger pull", and now "trigger manipulation ATF approves of". View Quote They have been contriving arguments for some time; none of them change the statute's definition of a machinegun. This is why they use the process of financial erosion against people and then drop charges before getting bounced out of court trying to argue stupid shit like "AR 15s have receivers" and "bumpstocks are machineguns." Accessories that help you shoot quickly but do not change the function of the FCG. |
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This isn’t a binary trigger. To me, it’s a totally internal auto sear imho. But being the trigger is effectively stopped, the hammer has to be released again so the Biden atf is over reaching. It’s about time for zero compliance. The first firearm regulation was way too far. When your reasoning for banning something is that it makes an object work too well as Biden on pistol braces “ it makes the firearm too accurate “ that reeks of tyranny and control for the sake of it and time to make him put his nuke and fighter jet threat to action.
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I get them everyday. Saying 150 I. Stock. Then 50 then a100 then 150. They have costs to cover. I personally feel they are over priced. That and I don’t wanna be on a list is why I bought it from a dealer lol.
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I literally just sold a Wolf A1 upper yesterday, to fund me buying an FRT.
Fucking FUCKSHIT. Fuck the Bureau of Assholes Trannies & Faggots. Will wait for the inevitable court case to conclude it is not an MG. Because it's not. If the FRT is an MG, then every semiauto weapon out there is an MG. The Buttrage in me is REAL! ATF |
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Quoted: I literally just sold a Wolf A1 upper yesterday, to fund me buying an FRT. Fucking FUCKSHIT. Fuck the Bureau of Assholes Trannies & Faggots. Will wait for the inevitable court case to conclude it is not an MG. Because it's not. If the FRT is an MG, then every semiauto weapon out there is an MG. The Buttrage in me is REAL! ATF View Quote That's the entire plan here. It's not just about FRT triggers, you should know that. Once all of you cave on the Rare Breed, then they will make their case for detachable magazine fed firearms. |
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While the FRT-15 ruling may at first glance may seem to be the ATF going after binary trigger variants, it's important to view this in a wider context, specifically the "readily convertible" context of how the NFA is interpreted.
In order to regulatorily redefine AR15 lower receivers as "readily convertible", legal precedence must first be set. #1. The FRT-15 trigger is a machine gun. #2. It can easily be installed into common AR15 receivers with about 30 min of work. #3. Thus, all AR15 lowers are "readily convertible" and subject to the NFA. But you can't get from #1 to #3 without first doing #1 first. This is something many non-lawyers have a tough time 'getting', regarding legal jurisprudence. Legal cases tend to rely on earlier rulings to set the groundwork for future rulings. This is why Everytown/Brady have been pushing so hard on the lawfare front lately. The reason is that if they can get favorable rulings in lower courts upholding their legal concepts, they can then carry forward those concepts into other legal cases or proposed bills. Basically, to use a sports analogy, these cases and rulings are the gun controllers' version of the minor leagues, where ideas are given a try out to see if they're fit for the big leagues. BONUS: I looked up the Special Agent in Charge (Craig W. Saier) and found that from 2016 to 2019, he was the ATF Country Attaché for...Mexico, representing ATF to the Mexican Government. I find this...interesting given this ruling and the Mexican Government Lawsuit against gun manufacturers. |
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Quoted: I literally just sold a Wolf A1 upper yesterday, to fund me buying an FRT. Fucking FUCKSHIT. Fuck the Bureau of Assholes Trannies & Faggots. Will wait for the inevitable court case to conclude it is not an MG. Because it's not. If the FRT is an MG, then every semiauto weapon out there is an MG. The Buttrage in me is REAL! ATF View Quote They haven't stopped selling them to my knowledge. Get on the email list, buy one and disregard the ATFs opinion whatever it ends up being. |
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Quoted: While the FRT-15 ruling may at first glance may seem to be the ATF going after binary trigger variants, it's important to view this in a wider context, specifically the "readily convertible" context of how the NFA is interpreted. In order to regulatorily redefine AR15 lower receivers as "readily convertible", legal precedence must first be set. #1. The FRT-15 trigger is a machine gun. #2. It can easily be installed into common AR15 receivers with about 30 min of work. #3. Thus, all AR15 lowers are "readily convertible" and subject to the NFA. But you can't get from #1 to #3 without first doing #1 first. This is something many non-lawyers have a tough time 'getting', regarding legal jurisprudence. Legal cases tend to rely on earlier rulings to set the groundwork for future rulings. This is why Everytown/Brady have been pushing so hard on the lawfare front lately. The reason is that if they can get favorable rulings in lower courts upholding their legal concepts, they can then carry forward those concepts into other legal cases or proposed bills. Basically, to use a sports analogy, these cases and rulings are the gun controllers' version of the minor leagues, where ideas are given a try out to see if they're fit for the big leagues. BONUS: I looked up the Special Agent in Charge (Craig W. Saier) and found that from 2016 to 2019, he was the ATF Country Attaché for...Mexico, representing ATF to the Mexican Government. I find this...interesting given this ruling and the Mexican Government Lawsuit against gun manufacturers. View Quote Wouldn't the fact that DIASs and lightning links exist have the same effect? Several companies make low shelf lowers that readily accept them and they don't count as MGs. |
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Quoted: This isn’t a binary trigger. To me, it’s a totally internal auto sear imho. But being the trigger is effectively stopped, the hammer has to be released again so the Biden atf is over reaching. It’s about time for zero compliance. The first firearm regulation was way too far. When your reasoning for banning something is that it makes an object work too well as Biden on pistol braces “ it makes the firearm too accurate “ that reeks of tyranny and control for the sake of it and time to make him put his nuke and fighter jet threat to action. View Quote Woah. A join date post count underscore is completely right. |
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Quoted: Yeah, they knew this was coming. I read the whole thing. That was not thrown together half assed, IMHO. I find interesting, and now understand, that sharing his law office with this biz presents a problem with confiscation of any computers or papers on his office. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: rare breed's full complaint HERE I find interesting, and now understand, that sharing his law office with this biz presents a problem with confiscation of any computers or papers on his office. This. They’d be hard pressed to raid a defense attorney during a legal proceeding. |
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I sincerely hope he wins against this arbitrary and capricious infringement.
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Quoted: Wouldn't the fact that DIASs and lightning links exist have the same effect? Several companies make low shelf lowers that readily accept them and they don't count as MGs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: While the FRT-15 ruling may at first glance may seem to be the ATF going after binary trigger variants, it's important to view this in a wider context, specifically the "readily convertible" context of how the NFA is interpreted. In order to regulatorily redefine AR15 lower receivers as "readily convertible", legal precedence must first be set. #1. The FRT-15 trigger is a machine gun. #2. It can easily be installed into common AR15 receivers with about 30 min of work. #3. Thus, all AR15 lowers are "readily convertible" and subject to the NFA. But you can't get from #1 to #3 without first doing #1 first. This is something many non-lawyers have a tough time 'getting', regarding legal jurisprudence. Legal cases tend to rely on earlier rulings to set the groundwork for future rulings. This is why Everytown/Brady have been pushing so hard on the lawfare front lately. The reason is that if they can get favorable rulings in lower courts upholding their legal concepts, they can then carry forward those concepts into other legal cases or proposed bills. Basically, to use a sports analogy, these cases and rulings are the gun controllers' version of the minor leagues, where ideas are given a try out to see if they're fit for the big leagues. BONUS: I looked up the Special Agent in Charge (Craig W. Saier) and found that from 2016 to 2019, he was the ATF Country Attaché for...Mexico, representing ATF to the Mexican Government. I find this...interesting given this ruling and the Mexican Government Lawsuit against gun manufacturers. Wouldn't the fact that DIASs and lightning links exist have the same effect? Several companies make low shelf lowers that readily accept them and they don't count as MGs. Rather, the ATF has not chosen to classify them as MGs yet. Frankly it’s a stupid standard that needs to go away… you can readily convert any autoloading gun to full auto with minor modification if you know how. It’s just a few milling operations and drop in parts, even easier with additive manufacturing now. The only guns out there that absolutely cannot be made full auto are are break action guns. |
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View Quote No, let's have it out. |
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I have not read all 10 pages. IMHO, A binary trigger fires once when your finger is pulled back, and a second time when you move your finger forward-the forward movement is spring assisted. You have to release the trigger pressure and allow the trigger to move forward for it to fire the second time. A forced reset trigger only fires when you pull the trigger, but it forces the reset, so while you don't really have to stop applying pressure-you are pulling the trigger backwards 2x. Your finger will move back 2x, but you are only really applying pressure once and maintaining that pressure (which is less pressure than the forced reset).
So imagine you have a trigger pull of 5lbs. With a binary, you apply 5lbs, the trigger moves back and the rifle fires, then stop applying pressure, the trigger moves forward and it fires a second time- 2 shots. With a force reset, you apply 5lbs, it resets by putting 8lbs of pressure on your finger to move it forward, then if 5lbs is still applied you will end up pulling the 5lb trigger a second time. Some target rifles (mostly shotguns I guess) use release triggers. They have more in common with set triggers that bianary triggers imho. You fire the set, then tell the gun to fire with a second movement. At most a binary is 2 triggers in one body. If fires and sets with the first movement, then fires again with the second movement. A forced reset trigger is much more like a bump stock, in that it only fires when the trigger is pulled, but the action is automatically resetting the trigger. |
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Quoted: I literally just sold a Wolf A1 upper yesterday, to fund me buying an FRT. Fucking FUCKSHIT. Fuck the Bureau of Assholes Trannies & Faggots. Will wait for the inevitable court case to conclude it is not an MG. Because it's not. If the FRT is an MG, then every semiauto weapon out there is an MG. The Buttrage in me is REAL! ATF View Quote They’re still for sale. |
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Quoted: Wouldn't the fact that DIASs and lightning links exist have the same effect? Several companies make low shelf lowers that readily accept them and they don't count as MGs. View Quote Look at Matrix, SOLGW, Geissele and DSArms lowers. |
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Quoted: I beleive the guy who followed this strategy over the LL when the ATF contacted him, wound up kicking his door in with a search warrant. If they know you bought one, I wouldn't be messing around if contacted. View Quote Not everybody is afraid of ATF door kickers. I'm sort of amazed that nearly 30 years after the Branch Davidian mess, they still haven't managed to pick on somebody who's run out of fucks to give. |
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Quoted: I have not read all 10 pages. IMHO, A binary trigger fires once when your finger is pulled back, and a second time when you move your finger forward-the forward movement is spring assisted. You have to release the trigger pressure and allow the trigger to move forward for it to fire the second time. A forced reset trigger only fires when you pull the trigger, but it forces the reset, so while you don't really have to stop applying pressure-you are pulling the trigger backwards 2x. Your finger will move back 2x, but you are only really applying pressure once and maintaining that pressure (which is less pressure than the forced reset). So imagine you have a trigger pull of 5lbs. With a binary, you apply 5lbs, the trigger moves back and the rifle fires, then stop applying pressure, the trigger moves forward and it fires a second time- 2 shots. With a force reset, you apply 5lbs, it resets by putting 8lbs of pressure on your finger to move it forward, then if 5lbs is still applied you will end up pulling the 5lb trigger a second time. View Quote You are correct there. Not sure what you point was otherwise. |
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Quoted: Rather, the ATF has not chosen to classify them as MGs yet. View Quote You need to look at what Brady/Everytown is actually trying to do now. More specifically, in their Mexican Lawsuit against gun manufacturers: LINK TO PDF ----------- 72. A gun is “designed to shoot” automatically if it is designed so that it can be simply or easily modified to fire automatically. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) has recognized that the NFA’s definition of “machinegun[s]” “includes those weapons which have not previously functioned as machineguns but possess design features which facilitate full automatic fire by a simple modification or elimination of existing component parts.” ATF Rul. 82-8 at 1. ..... 307. Defendants Colt, Smith & Wesson, and Ruger, with respect to their AR-15 style weapons, and Century Arms with respect to its AK-47 style weapon, violate another U.S. federal statute—a ban on the sale of machine guns. 308. Defendants’ AR-15 and AK-47 style guns are illicit “machinegun[s]” even if sold to initially fire semi-automatically. In ATF’s language, they “possess design features which facilitate full automatic fire by a simple modification or elimination of existing component parts.” 309. Defendants specifically design these weapons so that persons with minimal financial resources and little-to-no technical expertise can easily modify them to be fully automatic, including by simply: a. replacing the manufacturer-installed sear system inside the gun (which enables semi-automatic fire) with a third-party sear system which enables automatic fire; b. shaving down part of the manufacturer-installed sear system to change the way it functions; or c. attaching an external device such as a “bump stock” or trigger crank to the gun. 310. Defendants sold guns susceptible to these or similar modifications to the general public and thereby either directly or through intermediaries violated § 922(b)(4). ... 313. Defendants knowingly violated U.S. federal guns laws by selling and marketing machine guns—guns that can be easily modified to fire automatically—to the general public, without complying with the strictures of the National Firearms Act and § 922(b)(4). Defendants commit these violations with full awareness that their weapons’ susceptibility to being modified to fire automatically makes them particularly attractive to the drug cartels in Mexico. They're trying to lay the groundwork in that lawsuit (and others) for the "Readily convertible" attack on AR15s via the regulatory state. |
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Quoted: While the FRT-15 ruling may at first glance may seem to be the ATF going after binary trigger variants, it's important to view this in a wider context, specifically the "readily convertible" context of how the NFA is interpreted. In order to regulatorily redefine AR15 lower receivers as "readily convertible", legal precedence must first be set. #1. The FRT-15 trigger is a machine gun. #2. It can easily be installed into common AR15 receivers with about 30 min of work. #3. Thus, all AR15 lowers are "readily convertible" and subject to the NFA. But you can't get from #1 to #3 without first doing #1 first. This is something many non-lawyers have a tough time 'getting', regarding legal jurisprudence. Legal cases tend to rely on earlier rulings to set the groundwork for future rulings. This is why Everytown/Brady have been pushing so hard on the lawfare front lately. The reason is that if they can get favorable rulings in lower courts upholding their legal concepts, they can then carry forward those concepts into other legal cases or proposed bills. Basically, to use a sports analogy, these cases and rulings are the gun controllers' version of the minor leagues, where ideas are given a try out to see if they're fit for the big leagues. BONUS: I looked up the Special Agent in Charge (Craig W. Saier) and found that from 2016 to 2019, he was the ATF Country Attaché for...Mexico, representing ATF to the Mexican Government. I find this...interesting given this ruling and the Mexican Government Lawsuit against gun manufacturers. View Quote You are correct, however there are too many in circulation so it is too late for them to ban them now. |
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Been here so many times before. It's all so tiresome.
Moron ATF Agent Seizes 30 Toy Guns! Says They can be Converted! Moron ATF Agent Seizes 30 Toy Guns! Says They can be Converted! |
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Quoted: Been here so many times before. It's all so tiresome. Moron ATF Agent Seizes 30 Toy Guns! Says They can be Converted! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2sWiZ8BizI View Quote I like that Mr. ATF agent tries to put the magazine in backwards a few times. |
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There have been enough FRT15s already sold that the legal defense fund must be MASSIVE.
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Quoted: The way where the dominant attitude is "fuck you, repeal the NFA" The way where the AR-15 is America's Rifle, not something icky we should give up to protect muh hunting. The way where CCW is at record levels and constantly increasing. The way where the country has figured out that we are by far the majority. The way where even the '94 AWB was a gigantic footgun for the opposing side. The way where we should have been seeing unstoppable attacks on braces by the end of February, not half-assed attempts trickling in months later. The way where the majority of the country is 2A sanctuaries. The way the enemy has taken the mask off and made it clear that "live and let live" compromise is not on the table. The way where 40% of the states are Constitutional Carry instead of 2%. The way where the NRA is no longer able to bodycheck pro-gun legislation or help the enemy adjust their bills so they can pass. The way the population has enough weapons and ammunition to fight WW2 a few times over. The way the enemy has demonstrated over the last few years, but especially the last few months that they are too incompetent to successfully execute any of their fiendish plans. The way this map can be used to beat dumkopfs like you over the head until either the sense goes in or the red stuff comes out: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Right_to_Carry%2C_timeline.gif View Quote And what has any of that accomplished at the federal level? Literally nothing. If you think a progun bill has a chance in hell of passing congress youre smoking some good shit. The ATF doesn't give a shit what individual state do, or what popular opinions are... Ive seen FAR more support for the next AWB than repealing the NFA.. so I'm not sure where youre running your popularity polls. |
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Quoted: And what has any of that accomplished at the federal level? Literally nothing. If you think a progun bill has a chance in hell of passing congress youre smoking some good shit. The ATF doesn't give a shit what individual state do, or what popular opinions are... View Quote So, complete change at the cultural, local, and state levels, with an overwhelming trend in the pro-2A direction. But we haven't won everything at all possible levels yet so we have lost. I hope you got your tax stamps for those rocket propelled goalposts. |
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Quoted: I wonder why it starts at 1986 and not 1886...... View Quote What if we started it at 1700? Absolutely no 2A then. That things were better a long time ago does not change that things are getting better now. Also I don't think we can truthfully say that things were "better" before all these attacks on the Second. Because it was completely untested, and as it turned out the 2A protections were a paper tiger until Americans spent the long years building up a spine. |
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Quoted: So, complete change at the cultural, local, and state levels, with an overwhelming trend in the pro-2A direction. But we haven't won everything at all possible levels yet so we have lost. I hope you got your tax stamps for those rocket propelled goalposts. View Quote LOL, keep that circle jerk going I guess. I referenced the 1994 awb when a poster claimed that shit can't be banned... You realize that all your points have been on the chopping block since 2012? That a new AWB has been gaining support far more than any progun legislation.. The ATF isn't ruled by local thought... and continue to feel empowered by DC officials. |
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Quoted: LOL, keep that circle jerk going I guess. I referenced the 1994 awb when a poster claimed that shit can't be banned... You realize that all your points have been on the chopping block since 2012? That a new AWB has been gaining support far more than any progun legislation.. The ATF isn't ruled by local thought... and continue to feel empowered by DC officials. View Quote Oh, you are one of those people who thinks the incoherent ravings of Washington still matter. Cute. |
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Quoted: It isn't 1994 anymore. The 2A world has completely changed in our favor in almost every way. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Hahahaha 1994 just checked in. It isn't 1994 anymore. The 2A world has completely changed in our favor in almost every way. Yea now we have Instagram hero’s |
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Quoted: Meanwhile a bunch of heavy hitters kissed their family goodbye last night and are heading back East in C-17s to fight to save other Americans. They believe in something. Several will not return alive. Many of you seem to be playing 2nd Amendment well until it's time to do 2nd Amendment things. View Quote Are they going to Washington D.C. to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic? |
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Watching their animation of the operation it’s clearly a singlestags trigger and NOT a MG.
FATF |
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