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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:12:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty fucking quick.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA
Remember that F-15 that had the nose fall of in flight a few years back? Pretty fucking quick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For you and anyone else who knows about this stuff, as I do not: When you say structural failure, how quickly does that happen? Is it something that should/could have been caught in maintenance? Or is it a sudden failure? I'm trying to wrap my head around how something like that happens. Seems like it would take a whole lot of "failure" very quickly without some other factor(s)? TIA from an aircraft dummy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA
Remember that F-15 that had the nose fall of in flight a few years back? Pretty fucking quick. The person that told me that is a former Marine who's father flew that very same C-130. He was a L/Cpl in my platoon when he told us the story of the history of that Herc. He went on to Mike Golf school and was the Master Gunner for my former tank company when they deployed to Iraq for OIF. He left my beloved Corps as a SSgt w/ a Purple Heart to join the Guard and become an aviator like his dad. He's a qualified AH-64D pilot, and now flies UH-60 Blackhawks as a CW3. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:16:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regarding the wings falling off. I highly doubt the reason behind the one in the video would happen in the military. Their maintenance people basically repaired it with nuts, bolts, and bailing twine they bought at Ace hardware instead of aircraft grade stuff. It was a Military aircraft that had "a lot" of unaccounted for flight hours when it was flying (illegally) with the CIA. It was also a C-130A, it was built out of a different grade of aluminum than the subsequent C-130's. It never had an upgraded wingbox installed and it had never had any serious rework done since it had been "traded" to the USFS / Private Contractors. Finally, it was "Wing Fatigue" that did it in. http://articles.latimes.com/2002/sep/25/local/me-walker25 http://www.deseretnews.com/article/952879/2-firefighting-plane-types-are-grounded.html |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:16:51 AM EDT
[#3]
... excessive cycles on most all fuselages typically never mean anything good when bouncing on the edge of a structure's end-run lifecycle
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:22:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought I recollected that bird was on loan from the CANG??? It had been a USAF bird that was "bailed" to the CIA - Think "Air America". It (along with other C-130's) were "traded" for vintage aircraft and money. It involved the USAF, CIA, USFS and the Naval Museum. http://www.vaq34.com/oldtacamo/stealing.htm |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:23:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was a CIA bird that was sold under the condition that the maintenance records were still classified, and wouldn't be released to the buyer. http://www.vaq34.com/oldtacamo/stealing.htm |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:26:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pax may not wear them, but flying aircrew do 100% of the time... Also, from the video, it looks like everything from 245 forward is gone... I've been on especially long legs and walked into the cockpit to look at the idcu and see how much further we have to go and everyone up there was asleep. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:27:01 AM EDT
[#7]
The USFS, the USAF and the FAA played fuck-fuck for a couple years over this crash.
The USFS wanted control over the aircraft, the USAF was (and still is) the lead agency for C-130's and they said no, the FAA wanted to bring all fire fighting planes under their purview, the USAF said no. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:33:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That was a CIA bird that was sold under the condition that the maintenance records were still classified, and wouldn't be released to the buyer. http://www.vaq34.com/oldtacamo/stealing.htm ETA: I haven't seen them this year *yet*, but I often observe a two engined, WWII-era A-26 or B-26 fly over my hooch on it's way north to fight fires. That thing just lumbers along low and slow, and I have to wonder how they survived missions when people actually shot at them.... |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:35:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If true, that's a hell of an unusual failure mode for a C-130. Could have been a catastrophic gearbox/prop failure, but there are a dozen safety features designed to prevent that from happening. I've seen and slept on some ISU90's that weighed enough that if they started rolling from the wing box forward it would be a genuinely catastrophic impact. Potentially damaging the fuselage enough that the entire nose from the hellhole forward could break off. The one we brought to and from the deid in January and May was totally full and we had the engine change kit right behind it. I think I remember it weighing an absurdly high amount like 7000 pounds or some shit. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:39:18 AM EDT
[#10]
doubletap
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:47:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regarding the wings falling off. I highly doubt the reason behind the one in the video would happen in the military. Their maintenance people basically repaired it with nuts, bolts, and bailing twine they bought at Ace hardware instead of aircraft grade stuff. 
ETA, at least that is what I read about it. Thanks KA3B for more input on that crash. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:49:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For you and anyone else who knows about this stuff, as I do not: When you say structural failure, how quickly does that happen? Is it something that should/could have been caught in maintenance? Or is it a sudden failure? I'm trying to wrap my head around how something like that happens. Seems like it would take a whole lot of "failure" very quickly without some other factor(s)? TIA from an aircraft dummy. We find cracks all the time and fix them. Aircraft with LAIRCM invariably have cracks forming around the pods. Every unit has an NDI team specifically there to find and address cracks, and sometimes they find them in the weirdest places. Many times one guy will find a crack and then notify higher to get the word out, and like twenty other squadrons find cracks in important areas too, and we ground everyone until they inspect the hell out of everything. One example of this was the firefighting 130 that went down in Colorado (I think) where the wings decided they wanted to go on their own path without the rest of the aircraft. Everyone started inspecting their aircraft and holy shitty balls of crack damned near every unit found cracks around the wing box. Some units lost all their aircraft in one shot. It was serious shit. I think my unit had one and it was a pretty significant crack. So while we all try our hardest to go through our aircraft every ISO with a fine tooth comb and get the flyers the best possible product, we are only human and can't get to everywhere. This might have been a crack in the fuselage. There was a TAR to go through every engine a while back and inspect for a screw that was fucked up in the prop that could have dire consequences if not addressed. Dire as in it could throw a blade. Perhaps the Marines missed that one and it didn't get fixed. Shit like that happens. I thought there was another mandated fix regarding the locks a while back too. It could seriously be anything. We will absolutely find out, especially those of us in the 130 community, and you can bet there will be a lessons learned and a how can we not ever have this happen again. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:53:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done lots of phase inspections on KC-130T's, and sadly a bunch on this exact BUNO. Everything following this is just more supposition: IF the failure was stringers, ribs, longerons, etc at the 245 bulkhead, it started below the cargo deck, due to human urine. Some birds have piss cans, one of which was against 245 right at the CED. I dont remember if 000 did, but probably since most of ours did. Urine is extremely corrosive, or rather speeds up corrosion due to all the salts in it. That is not an area that is checked at I or O level. In fact, only one section of floor can be removed at a time due to it being structural. I can only assume it's a depot level check. I inspect aircraft in build process, so I'm no stranger to how planes are built. I don't see this being a structural issue at 245. Maybe the LOX tank (under flight station in nose gear compartment) blew?? There just isnt anything else in that area that could pop. No hyd pumps, accumulators, etc. If it started at 245, it was not an unaided structural failure The preceeding was entirely my educated ramblings. I've never seen it anywhere else. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:54:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if a load came loose in flight and slammed forward into the 245. I've seen and slept on some ISU90's that weighed enough that if they started rolling from the wing box forward it would be a genuinely catastrophic impact. Potentially damaging the fuselage enough that the entire nose from the hellhole forward could break off. The one we brought to and from the deid in January and May was totally full and we had the engine change kit right behind it. I think I remember it weighing an absurdly high amount like 7000 pounds or some shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If true, that's a hell of an unusual failure mode for a C-130. Could have been a catastrophic gearbox/prop failure, but there are a dozen safety features designed to prevent that from happening. I've seen and slept on some ISU90's that weighed enough that if they started rolling from the wing box forward it would be a genuinely catastrophic impact. Potentially damaging the fuselage enough that the entire nose from the hellhole forward could break off. The one we brought to and from the deid in January and May was totally full and we had the engine change kit right behind it. I think I remember it weighing an absurdly high amount like 7000 pounds or some shit. m |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:58:33 AM EDT
[#15]
Very sad. I haven't followed the story so I don't know if they know what happened yet.
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Posted: 7/12/2017 1:04:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The standard USMC tie down ratings are for 9G's forward, 2G's rearward. If the aircraft were in straight and level flight at FL220, it would take a pretty massive event to exceed that 9G rating. m I swear I remember a TCTO that came out a year or two ago about the locking rod being made from the wrong stuff and was failing, so they replaced every single one of them on all our aircraft. Something regarding the locks was fucked up. Chairborne might have better recollection considering he is what he is. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 1:13:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, fail. It was a Military aircraft that had "a lot" of unaccounted for flight hours when it was flying (illegally) with the CIA. It was also a C-130A, it was built out of a different grade of aluminum than the subsequent C-130's. It never had an upgraded wingbox installed and it had never had any serious rework done since it had been "traded" to the USFS / Private Contractors. Finally, it was "Wing Fatigue" that did it in. http://articles.latimes.com/2002/sep/25/local/me-walker25 http://www.deseretnews.com/article/952879/2-firefighting-plane-types-are-grounded.html 
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 1:37:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if that cargo lock failed or wasn't fully engaged. Shifting loads bring down planes all the time. Remember that one in Afghanistan where I think it was a 747 had a load shift aft and bring the plane down? I swear I remember a TCTO that came out a year or two ago about the locking rod being made from the wrong stuff and was failing, so they replaced every single one of them on all our aircraft. Something regarding the locks was fucked up. Chairborne might have better recollection considering he is what he is. I may be proven wrong... m |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 1:41:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has happened before. There's a vertical line on the fuselage that indicates where the plane of the prop blades is. In the photo I saw, the #2 prop threw a blade through the fuselage, and it entered exactly on that line. Fortunately, it happened on the ground and nobody was in the way. Edit: Here you go. I don't remember it being an Arab Herc and it's #3, but it shows you where the prop blade hits, and you can see it's right on the line. If this happened in flight... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/180826/thrown-blade-251582.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any chance a rotor or blade flew off? Edit: Here you go. I don't remember it being an Arab Herc and it's #3, but it shows you where the prop blade hits, and you can see it's right on the line. If this happened in flight... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/180826/thrown-blade-251582.jpg |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 2:05:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I'll have to hit the CW3 up again on the subject when I get back to work and talk to him again in person. ETA: I haven't seen them this year *yet*, but I often observe a two engined, WWII-era A-26 or B-26 fly over my hooch on it's way north to fight fires. That thing just lumbers along low and slow, and I have to wonder how they survived missions when people actually shot at them.... |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 2:15:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Old news coverage of the Walker Fire Air Tanker crash.
 Walker Air Tanker Crash |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 2:21:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Txl |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 2:21:21 AM EDT
[#23]
Prayers and thoughts are with those of you who may have lost friends and colleagues, and prayers to the families and friends of our Marines.
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Posted: 7/12/2017 4:07:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very sad. I haven't followed the story so I don't know if they know what happened yet. When I first saw this I thought about the "Whirl mode" failures that the Lockheed "Electra" Airliners experienced in the late 50's and early 60's (Wings coming off resulting in the death of everyone aboard). This isn't the same thing at all (The wings were still attached) but damn. Godspeed to all involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPoZ_5M6Gck |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 4:24:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty fucking quick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA
Remember that F-15 that had the nose fall of in flight a few years back? Pretty fucking quick. 2002 was a bad year for Hawkins & Powers. They lost a PB4Y-2 Privateer one month later to a similar problem, loss of a wing during flight at the end of a long day making several drops of fire retardant. This aircraft had 8,346 hours. Both aircraft were found to have extensive stress fractures near the root of the wings, for lack of the proper technical term. Wiki details here A sad day for the USMC and families. They have my prayers. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 7:26:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On h3's the toilet is in the back just aft of the copilot side troop door. I've never seen it anywhere else. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 8:27:15 AM EDT
[#27]
As a Plank owner of VMGR 452 and as a retired Loadmaster, with 452 being the unit I retired from, this tragedy hits home, like when the Raider ship crashed in the Stan. The community is so small that it truly tragic situation. God Speed to all The families involved in this loss. Semper Fidelis!
I am surprised at the large number of VMGR folks on ARF. Mongo checking in... |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:31:25 AM EDT
[#28]
<Edited>
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:36:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<Edited> |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:40:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Neither this site nor this thread are places for that retarded truther bullshit.
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:44:33 AM EDT
[#31]
<Edited>
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:46:49 AM EDT
[#32]
RIP
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:49:57 AM EDT
[#33]
<Edited>
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:51:56 AM EDT
[#34]
<Edited>
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:55:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<Edited> |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 10:01:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if you are joking or not but I can assure you that there is plenty of aircraft debris at the Pentagon. I saw it first hand. https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/outsidedebris-jpg.1344/ Yes and I can have you speak with my sister about United 93 because she was part of the anthropological group that worked with the FBI recovering evidence. There were indeed large pieces left but when you nose dive a plane into the dirt at 500 MPH physics tends to take over and things get smashed/crushed very quickly in ways you can't begin to imagine. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:09:41 AM EDT
[#37]
<Edited>
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:24:57 AM EDT
[#38]
<Edited>
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:31:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes and I can have you speak with my sister about United 93 because she was part of the anthropological group that worked with the FBI recovering evidence. There were indeed large pieces left but when you nose dive a plane into the dirt at 500 MPH physics tends to take over and things get smashed/crushed very quickly in ways you can't begin to imagine. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:32:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: <snip to remove ignorant shit> |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:38:57 AM EDT
[#41]
The load and the FE names.
GySgt. Brendan Johnson - Loadmaster SSgt. Joshua Snowden - Flight Engineer A/C was BUNO 165000. 
Links: http://www.wcax.com/story/35860276/marine-from-vermont-killed-in-military-plane-crash http://www.fox4news.com/news/267268631-story These are NOT official released names from the US Marines. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:58:45 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A/C was 000. USMC VMGR-234 NAWC VMGR-452 
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:01:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GySgt. Brendan Johnson - Loadmaster SSgt. Joshua Snowden - Flight Engineer http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/07/11/stewart-based-military-squadron-killed-crash-mississippi/468677001/ |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Names of those killed in the crash are expected to be released late this afternoon.
http://www.witn.com/content/news/Officials-Marine-plane-crashes-killing-at-least-5-aboard-433722293.html |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:06:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Names of those killed in the crash are expected to be released late this afternoon. http://www.witn.com/content/news/Officials-Marine-plane-crashes-killing-at-least-5-aboard-433722293.html RIP, Marines. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:24:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Marine Sgt. Julian Kevianne, 31, who was stationed at Stewart, was identified as one of victims. http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/07/11/stewart-based-military-squadron-killed-crash-mississippi/468677001/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
GySgt. Brendan Johnson - Loadmaster SSgt. Joshua Snowden - Flight Engineer http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/07/11/stewart-based-military-squadron-killed-crash-mississippi/468677001/
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:40:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Dan Baldassare (pictured), aged 20. He was originally from Colts Neck, New Jersey and his friends describe him as a 'patriot' 
Sgt. Julian Kevianne (pictured), a Detroit, Michigan native, died in the crash Monday. He joined the Marines in 2009 because he wanted to protect and defend the country, his brother Carlo Kevianne said 
Staff Sgt. Joshua Snowden (pictured) originally grew up Dallas, Texas, his family said. The 31-year-old worked as a flight engineer on the KC-130 that crashed and was preparing to celebrate his 32 birthday on July 22 
Gunnery Sgt. Brendan Johnson (pictured) joined the Marines shortly after graduating from Johnson State College, his father, Kevin Johnson said First 4 Id'ed the NC based guys will be Released later this after noon
Updated |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<Edited>. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 12:53:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 1:02:03 PM EDT
[#50]
165000Lockheed KC-130T Hercules
165000 (MSN 382-5303) damaged in storm at Fort Worth NAS JRB, TX Jun 1, 2004. |
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