User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:20:54 PM EDT
[#1]
It will be a while before it is known what caused this.
The T's have a CSFIR (black box) that records flight data. There's also voice recording on a 30min loop IIRC. I don't know what would have caused the cockpit to separate at the 245 but I would suspect that if that did happen, it would have been from massive yaw. This would also explain parts of the aircraft departing in flight in a violent flat spin. IIRC, years back an AC-130 had a 105mm round go off in the fuselage and the plane stayed pretty much intact after ditching too so who knows. I wouldn't want to speculate. I have hauled a lot of weapons, explosives, hazmat, you name it over the years. Any number of things may have happened. Theses planes were a bulk purchase by the DoN for the USN and USMC back in the early 90's. They are old. Lots of hours on the airframes. We have over 20k hours on most of ours. The USMC is slowly replacing all of theirs with J's I think. We have "plans" to get J's sometime down the line but I would guess that the USN gives up the Herc mission altogether once these planes are worn out. I would imagine if this was a structural failure that this could start a quick retirement for the entire fleet of them DoN wide. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:28:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will be a while before it is known what caused this. The T's have a CSFIR (black box) that records flight data. There's also voice recording on a 30min loop IIRC. I don't know what would have caused the cockpit to separate at the 245 but I would suspect that if that did happen, it would have been from massive yaw. This would also explain parts of the aircraft departing in flight in a violent flat spin. IIRC, years back an AC-130 had a 105mm round go off in the fuselage and the plane stayed pretty much intact after ditching too so who knows. I wouldn't want to speculate. I have hauled a lot of weapons, explosives, hazmat, you name it over the years. Any number of things may have happened. Theses planes were a bulk purchase by the DoN for the USN and USMC back in the early 90's. They are old. Lots of hours on the airframes. We have over 20k hours on most of ours. The USMC is slowly replacing all of theirs with J's I think. We have "plans" to get J's sometime down the line but I would guess that the USN gives up the Herc mission altogether once these planes are worn out. I would imagine if this was a structural failure that this could start a quick retirement for the entire fleet of them DoN wide. There have been a few props blasting through C130's in their history, But I cannot recall them causing structural failure on the scale of separating the fuselage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:31:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will be a while before it is known what caused this. The T's have a CSFIR (black box) that records flight data. There's also voice recording on a 30min loop IIRC. I don't know what would have caused the cockpit to separate at the 245 but I would suspect that if that did happen, it would have been from massive yaw. This would also explain parts of the aircraft departing in flight in a violent flat spin. IIRC, years back an AC-130 had a 105mm round go off in the fuselage and the plane stayed pretty much intact after ditching too so who knows. I wouldn't want to speculate. I have hauled a lot of weapons, explosives, hazmat, you name it over the years. Any number of things may have happened. Theses planes were a bulk purchase by the DoN for the USN and USMC back in the early 90's. They are old. Lots of hours on the airframes. We have over 20k hours on most of ours. The USMC is slowly replacing all of theirs with J's I think. We have "plans" to get J's sometime down the line but I would guess that the USN gives up the Herc mission altogether once these planes are worn out. I would imagine if this was a structural failure that this could start a quick retirement for the entire fleet of them DoN wide. Our lowest time H has more than 22K hours on it. Some are approaching 30K, like our Es had when we retired them. That's why we have brand new Js, and are giving our Hs to the Guard. They fly about 10% of the hours a year that we do so they can milk another two decades out of them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:33:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If true, that's a hell of an unusual failure mode for a C-130. Could have been a catastrophic gearbox/prop failure, but there are a dozen safety features designed to prevent that from happening. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:33:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When that was the case, we often, if not all the time, strapped in. I can't speak for other squadrons' aircraft, but we had small seats bolted to the troop doors, as well as seat belt hard points. We strapped in, because if they're gonna have to maneuver, we didn't want to get tossed around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Most active duty 130's had a red line painted in the inside, showing the arc of the props. I never sat near that line. You never know... Those props would go through the plane like it was butter. Edit: Not applicable here but the load master is often one of the lookouts for AA fire/rocket trails over a combat zone, so rarely belted in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:36:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That reporter in the OP link wasn't very subtle, "We are being kept 5 miles from the crashed plane due to airplane parts being strewn all over, and body parts." Walking those woods and fields wont ever be the same. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:37:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If near Moorhead, MS there is a TFR in place. Source http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/tiles/reg/scale7/tile_41_44.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:38:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will be a while before it is known what caused this. The T's have a CSFIR (black box) that records flight data. There's also voice recording on a 30min loop IIRC. I don't know what would have caused the cockpit to separate at the 245 but I would suspect that if that did happen, it would have been from massive yaw. This would also explain parts of the aircraft departing in flight in a violent flat spin. IIRC, years back an AC-130 had a 105mm round go off in the fuselage and the plane stayed pretty much intact after ditching too so who knows. I wouldn't want to speculate. I have hauled a lot of weapons, explosives, hazmat, you name it over the years. Any number of things may have happened. Theses planes were a bulk purchase by the DoN for the USN and USMC back in the early 90's. They are old. Lots of hours on the airframes. We have over 20k hours on most of ours. The USMC is slowly replacing all of theirs with J's I think. We have "plans" to get J's sometime down the line but I would guess that the USN gives up the Herc mission altogether once these planes are worn out. I would imagine if this was a structural failure that this could start a quick retirement for the entire fleet of them DoN wide. TIA from an aircraft dummy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 7:57:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not a J model. The Marine reserves out of New York fly KC-130T's. The official Marine news release states it was a KC-130T. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If this is actually a J model The Marine reserves out of New York fly KC-130T's. The official Marine news release states it was a KC-130T. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 8:03:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Prayers for the 16 servicemen and their families. This is too close to home, my youngest son flew 130s for four years, including three deployments. He is still an Air Force pilot.
In 1982 a 130 from Little Rock went down near Judsonia, Arkansas. Parts of it fell on my uncle's farm, most of it fell on the property just south of his. This happened just after dark and my aunt and uncle were sitting on their porch and watching 130s going, back towards Little Rock, one after another. According to my uncle, one of them "blew up" with a massive fireball. Much like this one in Mississippi, there were parts and bodies strewn over a large area. I went over the next morning, my cousin and I found some aircraft parts. The official USAF cause of the accident was failure of the wing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 8:13:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For you and anyone else who knows about this stuff, as I do not: When you say structural failure, how quickly does that happen? Is it something that should/could have been caught in maintenance? Or is it a sudden failure? I'm trying to wrap my head around how something like that happens. Seems like it would take a whole lot of "failure" very quickly without some other factor(s)? TIA from an aircraft dummy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 8:21:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gearbox failure sending a prop/prop hub combo through the aircraft and contacting ordnance on the floor inside causing a fuselage separation? There have been a few props blasting through C130's in their history, But I cannot recall them causing structural failure on the scale of separating the fuselage. My thoughts were more along the lines of a pressurized C-130 airframe and the pressure differential increasing the damage caused by a prop going buzz saw. I wonder would it be enough to cause the nose structure to separate from the rest of the aircraft. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 8:32:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't intend the detour either. But, which window were you in? Our doors were closed, as well. We'd typically sit sideways, facing aft, with the seatbelts on that jump seat secured loose. Wasn't very comfortable, but gave the best view out the door, facing down and aft. *These were AF H-3 models. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 8:51:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Absolutely tragic. Rest in peace brothers.
Semper Fi.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:05:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For you and anyone else who knows about this stuff, as I do not: When you say structural failure, how quickly does that happen? Is it something that should/could have been caught in maintenance? Or is it a sudden failure? I'm trying to wrap my head around how something like that happens. Seems like it would take a whole lot of "failure" very quickly without some other factor(s)? TIA from an aircraft dummy. A catastrophic structural failure can be witnessed as the doomed firefighting bird that lost her wings dumping fire foam on a wild fire, both wigs snapped off.. But it could also be something smaller as a failed pressure bulkhead or ruptured fuel tank. I would say that the chances that the plane just came apart mid air while the crew was fat. dumb and happy headed to El Centro are very slim. Again, I would guess, that in most cases, there would have been other in-flight issues that would preempt the mishap. I don't know and won't speculate. As far as maintenance finding problems before this, that is another huge question. We inspect on hourly and calendar intervals. The longer the interval, usually, the more invasive and in depth the inspection but still, there are places that just don't get looked at. And, with any aircraft things just happen. One day she's flying like the day she came off the line and the next, you can't even get two hours worth of engine turns done without ten hours of maintenance. Everything has a limit. Your heart has a certain number of beats that it will stop at. We have a general idea that it will go for 75ish years but we also know that depends on a lot of things and it can go longer or much sooner. Same with aircraft.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:28:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Theses planes were a bulk purchase by the DoN for the USN and USMC back in the early 90's. They are old. Lots of hours on the airframes. We have over 20k hours on most of ours. The USMC is slowly replacing all of theirs with J's I think. We have "plans" to get J's sometime down the line but I would guess that the USN gives up the Herc mission altogether once these planes are worn out. I would imagine if this was a structural failure that this could start a quick retirement for the entire fleet of them DoN wide. The C-130F's were old! Again, I doubt that the USAF is going to get rid of all of their C-130H's because of this accident. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:34:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For you and anyone else who knows about this stuff, as I do not: When you say structural failure, how quickly does that happen? Is it something that should/could have been caught in maintenance? Or is it a sudden failure? I'm trying to wrap my head around how something like that happens. Seems like it would take a whole lot of "failure" very quickly without some other factor(s)? TIA from an aircraft dummy. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA[/youtube] Remember that F-15 that had the nose fall of in flight a few years back? Pretty fucking quick. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:38:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:But it could also be something smaller as a failed pressure bulkhead or ruptured fuel tank. We had one in a LC-130F that had the fuse tank plumbing in it, it caught fire and "blew up" in flight after it had been reworked by Cherry Point. This was in VXE-6 in 1992. We sent that fuse tank and the rest to the boneyard and never saw them again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:39:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a huge question and I am by no means the definitive authority on any of this. I fly them and work on them sometimes.. A catastrophic structural failure can be witnessed as the doomed firefighting bird that lost her wings dumping fire foam on a wild fire, both wigs snapped off.. But it could also be something smaller as a failed pressure bulkhead or ruptured fuel tank. I would say that the chances that the plane just came apart mid air while the crew was fat. dumb and happy headed to El Centro are very slim. Again, I would guess, that in most cases, there would have been other in-flight issues that would preempt the mishap. I don't know and won't speculate. As far as maintenance finding problems before this, that is another huge question. We inspect on hourly and calendar intervals. The longer the interval, usually, the more invasive and in depth the inspection but still, there are places that just don't get looked at. And, with any aircraft things just happen. One day she's flying like the day she came off the line and the next, you can't even get two hours worth of engine turns done without ten hours of maintenance. Everything has a limit. Your heart has a certain number of beats that it will stop at. We have a general idea that it will go for 75ish years but we also know that depends on a lot of things and it can go longer or much sooner. Same with aircraft.. Everything following this is just more supposition: IF the failure was stringers, ribs, longerons, etc at the 245 bulkhead, it started below the cargo deck, due to human urine. Some birds have piss cans, one of which was against 245 right at the CED. I dont remember if 000 did, but probably since most of ours did. Urine is extremely corrosive, or rather speeds up corrosion due to all the salts in it. That is not an area that is checked at I or O level. In fact, only one section of floor can be removed at a time due to it being structural. I can only assume it's a depot level check. I inspect aircraft in build process, so I'm no stranger to how planes are built. I don't see this being a structural issue at 245. Maybe the LOX tank (under flight station in nose gear compartment) blew?? There just isnt anything else in that area that could pop. No hyd pumps, accumulators, etc. If it started at 245, it was not an unaided structural failure The preceeding was entirely my educated ramblings. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:43:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a tanker, they did have that stupid fuse tank installed. We had one in a LC-130F that had the fuse tank plumbing in it, it caught fire and "blew up" in flight after it had been reworked by Cherry Point. This was in VXE-6 in 1992. We sent that fuse tank and the rest to the boneyard and never saw them again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:43:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Old? LOL! The C-130F's were old! Again, I doubt that the USAF is going to get rid of all of their C-130H's because of this accident. As the C2 Greyhounds are replaced by the V22's, and the P3 is replaced by the P8, our little wing of 25 planes becomes the only 4 blade H.S. prop game in town. The DoN money needed to rebuild components, buy new off the shelf parts, the man power involved to keep the squadrons viable, is all becoming very hard. And we beat the ever living fuck out of our planes. I wouldn't drive a stolen rental as hard as we fly these things. So at the end of the day, $$ controls everything and this is a terrible tragedy that, given the circumstance, I could easily see it as the catalyst for something that curtails the community. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:44:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Among the first witnesses at the scene was David Habig, a crop-duster pilot who flew low over the wreckage. “Lo and behold, all I see are
bodies out in the bean field,” he said. “They were everywhere. It was horrific. I’d never seen anything like it.” Link |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:46:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When that was the case, we often, if not all the time, strapped in. I can't speak for other squadrons' aircraft, but we had small seats bolted to the troop doors, as well as seat belt hard points. We strapped in, because if they're gonna have to maneuver, we didn't want to get tossed around. Tanker doors have big square windows and mounts on them to install an observer seat (used during in-flight refueling evolutions). Non-tanker doors have a small round porthole. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:47:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pax may not wear them, but flying aircrew do 100% of the time... Also, from the video, it looks like everything from 245 forward is gone... They were never worn by crew and only removed for inspection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:49:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a tanker, they did have that stupid fuse tank installed. We had one in a LC-130F that had the fuse tank plumbing in it, it caught fire and "blew up" in flight after it had been reworked by Cherry Point. This was in VXE-6 in 1992. We sent that fuse tank and the rest to the boneyard and never saw them again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:But it could also be something smaller as a failed pressure bulkhead or ruptured fuel tank. We had one in a LC-130F that had the fuse tank plumbing in it, it caught fire and "blew up" in flight after it had been reworked by Cherry Point. This was in VXE-6 in 1992. We sent that fuse tank and the rest to the boneyard and never saw them again. Asshole pucker factor was off the scale that day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:50:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Up until now I didn't realize the T's were so worn.
When I was active duty in VMGR 352, VMGR 234 was just beginning to get the T's and 452 had just stood up. Time flies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:50:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@KA3B Who are you saying had the fuse tank installed? 000 that just went down? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:52:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done lots of phase inspections on KC-130T's, and sadly a bunch on this exact BUNO. Everything following this is just more supposition: IF the failure was stringers, ribs, longerons, etc at the 245 bulkhead, it started below the cargo deck, due to human urine. Some birds have piss cans, one of which was against 245 right at the CED. I dont remember if 000 did, but probably since most of ours did. Urine is extremely corrosive, or rather speeds up corrosion due to all the salts in it. That is not an area that is checked at I or O level. In fact, only one section of floor can be removed at a time due to it being structural. I can only assume it's a depot level check. I inspect aircraft in build process, so I'm no stranger to how planes are built. I don't see this being a structural issue at 245. Maybe the LOX tank (under flight station in nose gear compartment) blew?? There just isnt anything else in that area that could pop. No hyd pumps, accumulators, etc. If it started at 245, it was not an unaided structural failure The preceeding was entirely my educated ramblings. And just a guess, an in-flight explosion/fire would possibly have burned much of the fuel before impact or at least much would have been lost during the break up? Seems this plane had a lot of gas on board when she impacted as it burned for quite a while. For a cross country I would guess she had around 44-48k. depending on her GW, winds, etc.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:52:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are two types of paratroop doors, tanker doors and the non-tanker (porthole doors) doors. Tanker doors have big square windows and mounts on them to install an observer seat (used during in-flight refueling evolutions). Non-tanker doors have a small round porthole. https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_080/1120966-large.jpg http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/8698124-3x2-940x627.jpg We did a TCTO a couple years ago to put the square window doors on all of our H models. Js all have the square windows too, better for spotter/observer use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:53:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a tanker, they did have that stupid fuse tank installed. We had one in a LC-130F that had the fuse tank plumbing in it, it caught fire and "blew up" in flight after it had been reworked by Cherry Point. This was in VXE-6 in 1992. We sent that fuse tank and the rest to the boneyard and never saw them again. They often aren't, and this was an in-CONUS crosscountry pax and cargo run. There is still plenty of fuel in the wings and external tanks to do an inflight refueling, even though tanking wasn't part of this flight's mission. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:56:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have 25 Hercs in the USN, the USMC is down to one last squadron of legacy T's, That 25 aircraft inventory includes Fat Albert, which, contrary to popular notion, is not a USMC owned plane but belongs to the VR wing of the Reserve USN. "Earlier this year, Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) awarded Hamilton Sundstrand a contract for the procurement and installation of as many as 25 electronic propeller control system (EPCS) aircraft kits for the U.S. Navy Reserve’s C-130T aircraft and the U.S. Air National Guard’s LC-130H aircraft. EPCS kits replace 54H60 propeller mechanical controls with a system based on digital computer software and are part of Hamilton Sundstrand’s propeller modernization program, which can be applied to NP2000 propellers in the future." http://www.utc.com/News/News-Center/Pages/Hamilton-Sundstrands-propeller-modernization-program-makes-strides-offers-opera.aspx I don't think the Navy's C-130T's are going anywhere...yet. Sometimes Fat Albert was a USMC Herc, sometimes it was a USN Herc. Don't forget about Ernie and Christine. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:57:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this was supposed to be an edit Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@KA3B Who are you saying had the fuse tank installed? 000 that just went down? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:57:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While the plumbing is always there, I doubt that the fuse tank was installed. They often aren't, and this was an in-CONUS crosscountry pax and cargo run. There is still plenty of fuel in the wings and external tanks to do an inflight refueling, even though tanking wasn't part of this flight's mission. I only ever put a fuse tank in one singular time. September 12, 2001. It didnt stay in long. We ran lots of refueling without the fuse tank. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 9:59:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Talking to the USMC Aircrew here on ARFcom, they have told me (and others) over the years that the Marine KC-130's have the fuse tank installed at all times. See GunnyG's post also |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 10:02:53 PM EDT
[#35]
How sad. I bet the majority of them were barely in their 20s.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 10:05:20 PM EDT
[#36]
The Fuse Tanks were always installed on the F models.
The R models usually had them. The external wing tanks carried enough fuel for refueling but we liked having the fuse tank installed due to it's more powerful pumps. It made refueling the receiver aircraft much quicker than using the transfer pumps in the external tanks. We had first generation R models in 352, about two thirds of our A/C had the fuse tanks installed. For cargo frags we coordinated the non fuse tank airframes for the mission. Refueling hops and general training flights we usually flew a fuse tank equipped bird. I never crewed T models, so I have no experience there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 10:10:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Navy has bought into the NP2000 propeller system. "Earlier this year, Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) awarded Hamilton Sundstrand a contract for the procurement and installation of as many as 25 electronic propeller control system (EPCS) aircraft kits for the U.S. Navy Reserve’s C-130T aircraft and the U.S. Air National Guard’s LC-130H aircraft. EPCS kits replace 54H60 propeller mechanical controls with a system based on digital computer software and are part of Hamilton Sundstrand’s propeller modernization program, which can be applied to NP2000 propellers in the future." http://www.utc.com/News/News-Center/Pages/Hamilton-Sundstrands-propeller-modernization-program-makes-strides-offers-opera.aspx I don't think the Navy's C-130T's are going anywhere...yet. Sometimes Fat Albert was a USMC Herc, sometimes it was a USN Herc. Don't forget about Ernie and Christine. Right now, we are throwing 20mil a plane at an avionics upgrade that is probably gonna get yanked early anyway. I give the community five years tops. A class alpha doesnt help, regardless of the causal factors. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 10:10:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
Up until now I didn't realize the T's were so worn. When I was active duty in VMGR 352, VMGR 234 was just beginning to get the T's and 452 had just stood up. Time flies. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 10:16:40 PM EDT
[#39]
6 Marines 1 Sailor from 2d Marine Raider Bn on NBC.com
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 10:18:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not in the Navy. When I got to my squadron in 2008 there were 5 parachutes just aft of the crew entrance door strapped to a cot above head level. Then around 2010ish they were removed from all of our aircraft. They were never worn by crew and only removed for inspection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:11:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i was talkin seat belts, not chutes.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not in the Navy. When I got to my squadron in 2008 there were 5 parachutes just aft of the crew entrance door strapped to a cot above head level. Then around 2010ish they were removed from all of our aircraft. They were never worn by crew and only removed for inspection. Sounds like 1 engine fell off, went into a small spiral/near flat spin straight down from 20kft, according to the clip stating what the ATC radar saw. Photos of it look like both wings are intact, in addition to the empennage, including broken off stab from impact, which would sort of jive with falling in a spiral/spin instead of a nosedive like the firefighting 130 did when it lost wings. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:23:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The 245 is the wall at the front end of the cargo area where they store the stanchions and assorted shit. On the J model it's where the computer that controls the locks is located. In the cargo area, just aft of the 245 on the right side is where the parachutes hang. Right where you were setting the locks on E/H models just inside the crew door is the 245. I don't think anyone was belted in. I'd say that close to 99% of the time I fly, nobody is wearing their seatbelt. If that was SOP in this instance, I'd be astonished if they could have gotten the plane righted and flying again as they ping ponged around the inside, much less get to and put on a seatbelt. Scary shit. Also, from the video, it looks like everything from 245 forward is gone... C-130 Damage from In-Flight Prop Separation |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:38:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of the commands have removed the portable piss cans, some have them safety wired shut. Shear forces during a severe spin could rip the cockpit off I would imagine? And just a guess, an in-flight explosion/fire would possibly have burned much of the fuel before impact or at least much would have been lost during the break up? Seems this plane had a lot of gas on board when she impacted as it burned for quite a while. For a cross country I would guess she had around 44-48k. depending on her GW, winds, etc.. We had a Work Center 320, the Loadmasters were in charge of the cargo compartment, dual rail system, cargo deck, lights, ICS, just about everything in it. I worked with a P&E guy from Cherry Point NADEP, they were doing a pre-induction inspection on one of the Hercs. I pulled up the dual rail and floorboards on the ramp and cargo floor section to get at FS 737. Holy crap there was a lot of piss induced corrosion there! It was fucking NASTY. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:39:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While the plumbing is always there, I doubt that the fuse tank was installed. They often aren't, and this was an in-CONUS crosscountry pax and cargo run. There is still plenty of fuel in the wings and external tanks to do an inflight refueling, even though tanking wasn't part of this flight's mission. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:41:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VXE-6 removed the forward urinals from their Hercs. We had a Work Center 320, the Loadmasters were in charge of the cargo compartment, dual rail system, cargo deck, lights, ICS, just about everything in it. I worked with a P&E guy from Cherry Point NADEP, they were doing a pre-induction inspection on one of the Hercs. I pulled up the dual rail and floorboards on the ramp and cargo floor section to get at FS 737. Holy crap there was a lot of piss induced corrosion there! It was fucking NASTY. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:43:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And just a guess, an in-flight explosion/fire would possibly have burned much of the fuel before impact or at least much would have been lost during the break up? Seems this plane had a lot of gas on board when she impacted as it burned for quite a while. For a cross country I would guess she had around 44-48k. depending on her GW, winds, etc.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:48:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Talking to the USMC Aircrew here on ARFcom, they have told me (and others) over the years that the Marine KC-130's have the fuse tank installed most of the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
@KA3B Who are you saying had the fuse tank installed? 000 that just went down? m |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2017 11:55:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, years back an AC-130 had a 105mm round go off in the fuselage and the plane stayed pretty much intact after ditching too so who knows. I wouldn't want to speculate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2017 12:05:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty fucking quick.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA
Remember that F-15 that had the nose fall of in flight a few years back? Pretty fucking quick. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2017 12:11:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regarding the wings falling off. I highly doubt the reason behind the one in the video would happen in the military. Their maintenance people basically repaired it with nuts, bolts, and bailing twine they bought at Ace hardware instead of aircraft grade stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pretty fucking quick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA
Remember that F-15 that had the nose fall of in flight a few years back? Pretty fucking quick. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
