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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:02:01 AM EDT
[#1]
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:02:13 AM EDT
[#2]
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I heard the same report. Who would normally investigate a military incident? NTSB or Military? Prayers out to all involved. I've been retired since '85 - this shit still upsets me. I can't imagine how members here who worked on that aircraft or possibly knew the crew must feel. Stay strong brothers - RIP to the fallen. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:02:22 AM EDT
[#3]
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Edited title due to conflicting reports. 4 bodies recovered so far. C130 crash Update Five dead, nine on board Update with flyover video The latest https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/96005/c130-crash-250839.JPG Now reporting 16 dead OOoooohhhh Fuck. That is *NOT* the way to crash. That motherfucker was inverted. You can see the MLS antenna in the picture there Did the DFDR and CVR even survive that bad boy? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:09:59 AM EDT
[#4]
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H models are old and have been rode hard. The ones I flew were beat up.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pictures make it look like it came down hard.... now 6 bodies reported, I doubt anyone survived this.... also read somewhere an engine found 1 mile north of crash site.... wonder if it had a wing failure. Our C130H3's look better than Active Duty's J models and have similar hours on each airframe. Sure they all can have issues just under the surface (Like the old E model wing box cracks that nobody figured out until that firefighting bird went down, then several units lost all their C130's) but if you were flying shitty aircraft, blame poor maintenance practices. And if you were at Keesler, Willow Grove, or Pope, well they all had a shit culture. Especially Pope. Whoever had the idea that mixing Reservists and Active duty was a good idea needs to be shot in the face. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:13:56 AM EDT
[#5]
May those 16 souls RIP. Every time a Mighty Herc dies, a little bit of My soul dies with it. The Ol' Crew Chief |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:14:41 AM EDT
[#6]
http://www.marines.mil/News/Press-Releases/Press-Release-Display/Article/1242769/marine-corps-aircraft-crashes-killing-16/
So it looks like MarForRes is handling the press releases. Could be reservists? I have a buddy who posted a video of him jumping out of C-130 2 days before the crash - who is in the reserves, I believe. He hasn't posted anything on Facebook. Kinda worried |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:18:57 AM EDT
[#7]
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Maybe someone here knows. You never hear them investigating when a thunderbird or navy bird crashes. Maybe because the amount of deaths? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? Mike |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:21:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Looks to be VMGR-452 out of Newburgh, NY
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:23:45 AM EDT
[#9]
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If the FBI is investigating, it is probably because of the speculation of an inflight explosion and the possibility that sabotage (i.e. a bomb) might have been involved. FBI doesn't investigate crashes unless some outside criminal activity is suspected. Mike Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? Mike |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:24:21 AM EDT
[#10]
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Out of the hundreds of 130s I've worked I've never seen them. Where would they have them stashed? Cargo compartment? No way they're going out the crew door, and the cargo door is inaccessible depending on the cargo unless they jettison it, and that's not something that's easy to do on a 130 if you know how to release the cargo locks. This being a J model, it has the electronic locks, but in a situation like this there's no way they'd have time or even the ability to open the door, dump the cargo, chute up and go. edit: saw it up above, never saw them on Af birds. Crazy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'd be willing to bet you're wrong. All USAF C-130s carry them, but they are hardly easily accessible. No way they're going out the crew door, and the cargo door is inaccessible depending on the cargo unless they jettison it, and that's not something that's easy to do on a 130 if you know how to release the cargo locks. This being a J model, it has the electronic locks, but in a situation like this there's no way they'd have time or even the ability to open the door, dump the cargo, chute up and go. edit: saw it up above, never saw them on Af birds. Crazy. They're hanging on the copilot's side just aft of the 245. If you worked on C130's, you know what the 245 is. You can open the doors regardless of the cargo load. You're right that they probably wouldn't have had time, and they were, from the looks of things, in a flat spin *AND* inverted, so there probably wasn't a lot of people standing. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:27:10 AM EDT
[#11]
RIP guys. Hope they are able to glean some insight as to what happened. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:37:47 AM EDT
[#12]
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I heard the same report. Who would normally investigate a military incident? NTSB or Military? Prayers out to all involved. I've been retired since '85 - this shit still upsets me. I can't imagine how members here who worked on that aircraft or possibly knew the crew must feel. Stay strong brothers - RIP to the fallen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:40:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe someone here knows. You never hear them investigating when a thunderbird or navy bird crashes. Maybe because the amount of deaths? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:41:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Our old F and R's did not have flight data/ voice recorders..there was an empty rack in the tail near the ramp/ after door for one..but the system wasn't installed. It's been a while, but I don't recall if the T's from NY and Tx has them installed.
This sucks. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:43:27 AM EDT
[#15]
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Our old F and R's did not have flight data/ voice recorders..there was an empty rack in the tail near the ramp/ after door for one..but the system wasn't installed. It's been a while, but I don't recall if the T's from NY and Tx has them installed. This sucks. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:53:49 AM EDT
[#16]
Terrible.
There was talk in the thread about how a liferaft deployment caused issues before. Could someone explain what happens when one deploys? I know nothing about these aircraft. It sounds like the liferafts are in the wings or something? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:56:20 AM EDT
[#17]
VMGR-252
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:00:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Terrible.
There was talk in the thread about how a liferaft deployment caused issues before. Could someone explain what happens when one deploys? I know nothing about these aircraft. It sounds like the liferafts are in the wings or something?  C130 Liferaft deployment |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:01:59 AM EDT
[#19]
 Deadly Marine plane crash in Mississippi |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:05:29 AM EDT
[#20]
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NTSB owns all aviation accidents by default. Military is also going to convene their own board. FBI investigation doesn't necessarily mean anything at this point. Mike ETA: NTSB would also be involved if civilian ATC was a suspected cause/contributor. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:06:02 AM EDT
[#21]
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NTSB owns all aviation accidents by default. Military is also going to convene their own board. FBI investigation doesn't necessarily mean anything at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? <------ Former flight safety and current occupational/weapon safety guy for the .mil |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:16:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryAbsolutly horrible situation |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:18:49 AM EDT
[#23]
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Bodies found up to a mile away. Absolutly horrible situation Fuck. That must have been a tough ride down. I don't think anybody onboard had any illusions after a few seconds. R.I.P. my brothers.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:18:49 AM EDT
[#24]
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NTSB has zero responsibility in a military air crash investigation, unless a civilian aircraft is somehow involved (e.g. midair collision). The appropriate military service is the responsible agency for investigating. Mike Quote HistoryQuoted:
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NTSB owns all aviation accidents by default. Military is also going to convene their own board. FBI investigation doesn't necessarily mean anything at this point. Mike 
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Prayers sent for families of those involved. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:24:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Terrible.
There was talk in the thread about how a liferaft deployment caused issues before. Could someone explain what happens when one deploys? I know nothing about these aircraft. It sounds like the liferafts are in the wings or something?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ecdzYBzKU |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:25:39 AM EDT
[#27]
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Perhaps...see the link in my post above Quote HistoryQuoted:
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T model. TYCOM |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:40:17 AM EDT
[#28]
A real tragedy, I hope they find the cause with certainty. Thanks to those contributing information to this thread, and for past and present servicemen and women's service for us.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:18:09 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:20:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe someone here knows. You never hear them investigating when a thunderbird or navy bird crashes. Maybe because the amount of deaths? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not read the entire thread, but I saw a news report saying the FBI is involved now. Any ideas on that? The FBI chased down some instruments needed for the tell-tale readings for determining the aircraft's attitude/speed/heading at impact. Pawnshops in the area yielded some finds, others were turned in after word got around that the FBI was talking years in federal PMITA prison for anyone caught with the parts. I heard a similar story about an FB-111 crash and when word about the federal prison time go around parts from the FB-111 and plane crashes dating back to WWII suddenly walked into turn-in locations. I can't imagine the meth heads of today passing up a chance at finding something valuable at a crash site that they could sell or trade for drugs. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:33:04 AM EDT
[#31]
15 Marines and 1 Navy Corpman
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:38:06 AM EDT
[#32]
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15 Marines and 1 Navy Corpman |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:54:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Is that confirmed the air crew is from Stewart? Crap. That's not on our news here.
Prayers for the families. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:57:22 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 7/11/2017 12:13:31 PM EDT
[#35]
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Is that confirmed the air crew is from Stewart? Crap. That's not on our news here. Prayers for the families. Newburgh, NY Stewart ANGB |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 12:31:10 PM EDT
[#36]
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Inverted, it just fell from the sky and landed flat. The aircraft is relatively intact. Aircraft that go in nose first or with any kind of forward momentum create a large hole in the ground or spread the remains of the aircraft over a large area.
See video at 1:07 |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 12:51:16 PM EDT
[#37]
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LOL, and you worked on Air Force C130's? They're hanging on the copilot's side just aft of the 245. If you worked on C130's, you know what the 245 is. Are you talking station numbers? I loaded cargo and pax, and had exactly zero reason to go into the cockpit, nor was it my job to give a fuck about what crew equipment was on board. I spoke to the load who was in the back. You can open the doors regardless of the cargo load. I know that. My point was depending on cargo, getting to them may be difficult. Releasing cargo in an H is a lot different than in a J from what I remember. The Js have electronic cargo locks vs the mechanical once the previous models have. Though I never fucked with any of that shit either, aside from the manual pallet locks in position 6. It's also been a few years since I set foot on one, so I may misremembering. You're right that they probably wouldn't have had time, and they were, from the looks of things, in a flat spin *AND* inverted, so there probably wasn't a lot of people standing. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 1:04:10 PM EDT
[#38]
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I was in 234 in '99. Empty racks. They now have J model |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 1:49:29 PM EDT
[#39]
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It looks like all the personnel were acdu, the aircrew out of Newburgh were permanent personnel and the rest, incl the Corpsman, were with 2Marine Raider Bn. CASBR is in the process of notifying NOK right now.
this is going to be a bigger tragedy than it already was their a relatively small Community and would Explain the Weapons and Stuff on board i bet they were heading out for training or something
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Posted: 7/11/2017 1:55:01 PM EDT
[#40]
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It's a manpower and evidence containment step. Have joe volley firefighter work on the scene on day 1, or have the FBI ERT from Memphis or Jackson secure sensitive evidence at the direction of the controlling agency until the co trolling agency's team can arrive on day 2. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 1:59:41 PM EDT
[#41]
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I didn't think the whole transition to the J took place due to some I am following on IG and FB. Presser say's T. I have no idea what 452 had, but no reason to doubt the Corps' official release. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:25:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Reading the reports, it sounds like the cockpit separated from the fuselage before the plane hit the ground.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:29:17 PM EDT
[#43]
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One of the raw videos taken by a news chopper clearly showed trenches which appeared to be the length of each wing and ~10' deep. The leading edges hit the ground hard enough to result in those 'indentations'.
See video at 1:07 
This is what was left of an EA-6B that crashed back in 2013. The KC-130T is relatively intact. Best indicator that there was no real forward airspeed. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:47:53 PM EDT
[#44]
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Not to be crass, but this is what a crash looks like when there's forward momentum. https://news.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/webProwlerCrash-2.jpg This is what was left of an EA-6B that crashed back in 2013. The KC-130T is relatively intact. Best indicator that there was no real forward airspeed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One of the raw videos taken by a news chopper clearly showed trenches which appeared to be the length of each wing and ~10' deep. The leading edges hit the ground hard enough to result in those 'indentations'.
See video at 1:07 https://news.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/webProwlerCrash-2.jpg This is what was left of an EA-6B that crashed back in 2013. The KC-130T is relatively intact. Best indicator that there was no real forward airspeed.
What's the typical cruise speed of a KC-130? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:59:16 PM EDT
[#45]
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Isn't the raider units MARSOC.
this is going to be a bigger tragedy than it already was their a relatively small Community and would Explain the Weapons and Stuff on board i bet they were heading out for training or something |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:04:16 PM EDT
[#46]
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Drudge has a link stating the pax were MARSOC with weapons, ammo and gear going to El Centro. C-130 J crew is 3 And this typically is what a team of MARSOC team is made up of Each MRB contains 4 Marine Special Operations Companies (MSOCs). Each MSOC contains an HQ Element and 4 Marine Special Operations Teams (MSOTs). A 14-man MSOT consists of: HQ Element Team Leader (Captain) Team Chief (Master Sergeant) Operations Sergeant (Gunnery Sergeant) Assistant Operations Sergeant (Staff Sergeant) Tactical Element Element Leader (Staff Sergeant) Assistant Element Leader / Element Member Element Member (Sergeant) Element Member Navy Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman (SARC) Tactical Element Element Leader (Staff Sergeant) Assistant Element Leader / Element Member Element Member (Sergeant) Element Member Navy Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman (SARC) This is Really Turning into a Terrible Tragedy Prayers out to their loved ones
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:08:08 PM EDT
[#47]
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I was afraid of that but something aint making sense then . C-130 J crew is 3 ETA: with it being a 452 aircraft, others could have been on board getting their time, hours, etc in.. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:10:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to be crass, but this is what a crash looks like when there's forward momentum. https://news.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/webProwlerCrash-2.jpg This is what was left of an EA-6B that crashed back in 2013. The KC-130T is relatively intact. Best indicator that there was no real forward airspeed. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:15:25 PM EDT
[#49]
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I was afraid of that but something aint making sense then . C-130 J crew is 3 They were transporting a MARSOC team. The entire team may not have been on board the Herc, sometimes they send an ADVON out before the main DET. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:17:31 PM EDT
[#50]
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It was a T.. AC, Co-Pilot, FE, Mech, Nav and Loadie would be a full crew..not 100% certain that a Nav and Loadie would be on board. ETA: with it being a 452 aircraft, others could have been on board getting their time, hours, etc in.. Required for USN and USMC legacy Hercs when carrying pax and cargo, it's probably the same for the J's. |
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