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Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:44:39 AM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
So uh... Mr Trump, about those two remaining openings on the 9th... you wanna go ahead and make some nominations please.
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The status of quo.

https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/judicial-vacancies/current-judicial-vacancies

vacancies and nominations listed.

he's pedaling as fast as he can
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:44:56 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Unfortunately the deep state move here is for SCOTUS to simply not take the case, ever and allow unconstitutional law to stand.

I wish there was a way to force them to do it.
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Don't get ahead of yourself.

9th circuit first.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:46:01 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
From what I gather the way ahead from here is:

1.  9th says the mag restrictions are legal; opening the door to SCOTUS possibly taking it.
2.  9th says the mag restrictions illegal; CA gun owners win bigly

Either way it gets interesting.  We've wanted another SCOTUS gun case and this would be a big one.

Do we know how long it takes 9th to do a case like this?  Months?  Years? (I really don't know)
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The judge opened up more than one Avenue with the latest ruling too.

RKBA and Equal Protection.

Now as it stands if you purchased an item before 1700 you are more equal than someone who did not.

I am no mathematician, but there is no way this is unintentional.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:47:00 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
I may have a few Chinese and Yugo BHO 30rd AK mags I would part with. Could probably accomodate 1 or 2 guys, preferably paid members of the site. PM me if interested.
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FBHO!...
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:47:36 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
How in the actual F*&^ is that even enforceable?
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
What does the stay mean?
Anyone who purchased at least 1 large-capacity-magazine is immune from 32310. Anyone who did not buy any mags revert to being illegal to buy LCMs.

Technically according to the current stay, if you bought 1 mag in the last week you can buy more past 5pm today.
How in the actual F*&^ is that even enforceable?
Because it is one more Avenue making an unconstitutional law that much more unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:48:02 AM EDT
[#6]
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FDF!
FKH!
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
From what I gather the way ahead from here is:

1.  9th says the mag restrictions are legal; opening the door to SCOTUS possibly taking it.
2.  9th says the mag restrictions illegal; CA gun owners win bigly

Either way it gets interesting.  We've wanted another SCOTUS gun case and this would be a big one.

Do we know how long it takes 9th to do a case like this?  Months?  Years? (I really don't know)
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IF the USSC accepts the case. They have a bad habit of not taking up some 2A cases. I think Roberts is bending over backwards to avoid pissing off liberals.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:49:26 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:

FDF!
FKH!
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There ain't enough viagra on the planet to make that possible
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:53:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:56:43 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:

@NorCalRT

I usually buy from Greg Cote, but he is sold out of most stuff...it looks like Stoeger has some (hopefully he ships to CA)
https://benstoegerproshop.com/gun-parts/cz/magazines/
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@dcs12345

Doesn't ship, but thank you for looking! I appreciate it!
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 9:57:17 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job.
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I’m completely ignorant of the stuff, but it sounds like to me that his ruling has basically been put on hold?

So now we’re back to illegal “high capacity” magazines in CA?
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:00:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Not clear to me - can retailers still sell and send mags to guys in Cali?
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:01:11 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I wonder if retailers are going to continue selling mags after 5pm. If the buyer bought at least 1 mag this week than they can lawfully keep buying more unless the 9th issues a more prohibitive stay.
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No.  Some people are going down that rabbit hole trying to read that into the Order, but I don't believe any court, LE Agency, or the CA AG is going to agree.

However, if someone thinks the Order says that then I guess we'll be able to see first hand [and I would love to be wrong].
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:01:21 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:

I’m completely ignorant of the stuff, but it sounds like to me that his ruling has basically been put on hold?

So now we’re back to illegal “high capacity” magazines in CA?
View Quote
Ownership remains legal, sales are on hold after 5pm today.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:02:01 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job.
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I doubt it goes to the SC. Only 2% of cases appealed to the SC are picked up.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:03:06 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."   Thomas Jefferson
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Oh... and THIS x's 1,000.

Especially when those laws are passed by corrupt hypocrites.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:03:12 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

@dcs12345

Doesn't ship, but thank you for looking! I appreciate it!
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@NorCalRT I'm on my way to a large gunstore right now. If you want me to look/buy/ship you some mags, email me at [email protected]
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:03:18 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
FDF!
FKH!
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Quoted:
FDF!
FKH!
So Pres Trump should have checked with Harris and Swinestein?
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:10:30 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."   Thomas Jefferson
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So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:13:09 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."   Thomas Jefferson
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?


Degrees, dude...
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:14:52 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."   Thomas Jefferson
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?
Contrary to all the tranny threads in GD, there is a long standing prohibition here on posting videos of anal.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:16:19 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:

Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion?
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You can't.  It's mental gymnastics.  Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class.  It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today.

I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong.  However, I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court.

Go down that road at your own risk.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:17:18 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job.
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Well, to the doorstep of the court anyway.

This is my fear, and it's consistent with what's happened before.

SCOTUS can sit there and refuse anything they want, allowing ridiculously bad law to stand forever.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:18:37 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
You can't.  It's mental gymnastics.  Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class.  It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today.

I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court.

Go down that road at your own risk.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion?
You can't.  It's mental gymnastics.  Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class.  It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today.

I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court.

Go down that road at your own risk.
What part is unclear?


IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction
enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in
effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported,
sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of
this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.
Dated: April 4, 2019
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:21:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Anyone still needing AR mags, used AK mags, or Glock 17 round/31 round mags send me an IM.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:22:59 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
Not clear to me - can retailers still sell and send mags to guys in Cali?
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Everyone can until 5pm (PST) today.  If you do so, you become part of a protect class of people (until the end of the appeal at the 9th).

Rather than explain it again I'm just going to say go back in the thread and read Featureless' posts from last night. The stay had a little gift in it for us.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:24:50 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:

What part is unclear?
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We can agree to disagree - courts are full of people who think they're both right.

I lose cases like every other lawyer (but not very often ).
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:27:51 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
What part is unclear?

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion?
You can't.  It's mental gymnastics.  Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class.  It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today.

I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court.

Go down that road at your own risk.
What part is unclear?


IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction
enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in
effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported,
sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of
this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.
Dated: April 4, 2019
Really hoping Nolo chimes in.  Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time.

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:32:28 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

Really hoping Nolo chimes in.  Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time.

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline.
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The stay clearly says sales end at 5pm today, ownership remains legal.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:32:47 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
Don't make me page Sylvan to tell you how Roberts is going to F* you.
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Seeing as how nothing seems to mandate how magazines need to be destroyed and tracked....

Every man, woman, and child in California that has purchased a magazine in the past week has the legal right to continue to order such magazines under this permanent ruling. If those men, women, or children were to accidentally drop those magazines on the ground and others picked them up, oh well.

There is also no legal requirement for tracking receipts for purchases, so anyone that is willing to file a use tax for a magazine purchase, regardless of if they retain any form of receipt, is going to be assumed by the state to be such a person. And anyone that can claim to have been gifted a magazine, as so many have been, is under no legal obligation to establish the provenance of said magazine that they received during this brief period of freedom.

It would, quite frankly, be impossible to establish, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that any given Californian was not such a person, unless they were already incarcerated or dead during the past week.
None of this is permanent until the appeals process is done.
It's permanent. There's no way to go back in time and pretend that millions of magazines made it in, in the course of a week.

Undefined is right...people can and should continue to purchase magazines past the Friday "deadline", as the door was opened so wide that it's impossible to close now.
I'm not saying the door is closed on Friday. As Undefined pointed out it's not much of a stay.
However, the possibility exists that the 9th Cir., perhaps many months from now, will order the judge to lift the stay.
If the contested statute goes into effect my understanding is that possession of those millions of magazines would be criminalized by the state of CA. Until then, party on.
Psst....

Caetano
Don't make me page Sylvan to tell you how Roberts is going to F* you.
Who do you think wrote the Caetano Decision?

Hint:

Caetano was a per curium decision.

I want to offer a Big Thank You to all the good guys who stayed and fought in California.

You guys have moved the ball a long way down the field with this action and buying all the magazines.

You made the Cali DOJ panic and force the issue.

SCOTUS won't be able to ignore, not that I think they would, this case due to how many mags you guys bought the moment the ban was lifted.

Thanks again to every guy in Cali who bought a mag.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:33:11 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:

Really hoping Nolo chimes in.  Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time.

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline.
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Yes - if they buy before 5pm today they can definately keep them until some further Court Order says different.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:35:02 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:

The stay clearly says sales end at 5pm today, ownership remains legal.
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Quoted:

The stay clearly says sales end at 5pm today, ownership remains legal.
Quoted:

Yes - if they buy before 5pm today they can definately keep them until some further Court Order says different.
Okay, I misunderstood.  Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:35:49 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?
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Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."   Thomas Jefferson
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes?
Nobody is gonna be that stupid, but if you think it hasn't happened your crazy.

They sell auto sear pin Drill jigs at flea markets in VA.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:36:11 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:

Okay, I misunderstood.  Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after.
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That is an opinion being bandied around.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:37:40 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:

Okay, I misunderstood.  Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after.
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That is is matter of debate.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:40:26 AM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:

That is is matter of debate.
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I assume burden of the state is the line of reasoning on that....
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:42:33 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
Really hoping Nolo chimes in.  Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time.

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion?
You can't.  It's mental gymnastics.  Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class.  It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today.

I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court.

Go down that road at your own risk.
What part is unclear?


IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction
enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in
effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported,
sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of
this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.
Dated: April 4, 2019
Really hoping Nolo chimes in.  Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time.

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline.
It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why.

In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay.

Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class.

But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc.

So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself.

Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:43:21 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:

We can agree to disagree - courts are full of people who think they're both right.

I lose cases like every other lawyer (but not very often ).
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I’ve dropped bank on attorney fees only to be told constantly “there’s no guarantees” it’s the reality but I shit my pants every time I fork over $10,000
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:43:46 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
Okay, I misunderstood.  Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

The stay clearly says sales end at 5pm today, ownership remains legal.
Quoted:

Yes - if they buy before 5pm today they can definately keep them until some further Court Order says different.
Okay, I misunderstood.  Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after.
That is valid argument lots of people are making. I just wanted to state what is 100% accepted right now. Edit to add, either way you look at it, you wanna order some mags before 5pm today.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:46:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Calguns is starting to run real slow. Will probably crash later today before the deadline.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:48:06 AM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
@Knothead71 @lostnswv
@fmj_shooter @DetrhoytMAK

I’m having

major issues with my  but if you’re not online anytime soon
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Clean out your inbox!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:49:59 AM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:
It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why.

In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay.

Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class.

But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc.

So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself.

Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity.
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Quoted:
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Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion?
You can't.  It's mental gymnastics.  Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class.  It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today.

I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court.

Go down that road at your own risk.
What part is unclear?


IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction
enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in
effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported,
sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of
this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.
Dated: April 4, 2019
Really hoping Nolo chimes in.  Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time.

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline.
It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why.

In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay.

Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class.

But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc.

So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself.

Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity.
From the outside it would be a fascinating legal case.

However, I wouldn't want to be the defendant.

That said, even though I live here and pay more attention then the average CA gun owner, I have no idea what the penalty for violating the statute on possession (if the decision is overturned) or purchasing after the deadline is.

Some say it is an "infraction", you lose said magazine and maybe pay a fine.
Others say it is a felony and it comes with mandatory prison time
Another I have heard states it is a wobbler (can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony) and since it it is a gun crime can come with a 10 year state level prohibition on 2A rights (if charged as a misdemeanor).

What is it?
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:51:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Look at it this way, the stay protects anyone who acted on last weeks ruling.

From a practical standpoint, it does protect further orders, manufacturing, etc, but since only those persons or businesses that acted in the past week are covered, and for a transaction to be protected both parties must be in the protected class, it makes it unreasonable for anyone to gift or sell to a Californian unless they had done so already at least once with that same Californian during the one week period. Otherwise how would you know with certainty that the other party is part of the class?

It also means that within California you won't be able to sell or gift the newly acquired magazines unless both parties are part of the class.

But there is no registry of who is and isn't part of the class...
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:51:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why.

In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay.

Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class.

But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc.

So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself.

Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity.
View Quote
In other words the stay keeps the criminal Cal DOJ from scheming and railroading people in possession of them later through undercover buy attempts.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:51:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Having issues with IMs. Tried deleting msgs but no effect. So I can’t IM
View Quote
Email sent.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:52:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:53:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity.
View Quote
I’m not selling Mr. Fudd any magazines, and he’s not welcome over at my place for dinner either. I will sell him a pocket constitution though.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:54:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So Pres Trump should have checked with Harris and Swinestein?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
FDF!
FKH!
So Pres Trump should have checked with Harris and Swinestein?
You may think that but I do not...
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 10:55:02 AM EDT
[#50]
So how would anyone know if I got mags after 5 PM?

cat has run off and left bag in dust.
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