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Posted: 4/5/2019 10:55:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In other words the stay keeps the criminal Cal DOJ from scheming and railroading people in possession of them later through undercover buy attempts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why. In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay. Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class. But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc. So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself. Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. It does not mean you'll be able to place online orders after today, as the vendor has no one of confirming their own compliance since they cannot prove you are in the protected class. Most vendors avoid risk like that for good reason. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 10:57:01 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:00:24 AM EDT
[#3]
My Jestice Arms order arrived.
My Brownells and Black dog machine orders from yesterday have not shipped yet. I just placed a duplicate order from Primary Arms today. Should have went there first. Almost $6 cheaper and they usually ship same day. Hopefully those buyers outside California continue to hold off until after 5pm today. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:00:24 AM EDT
[#4]
I have plenty of gen 3 niw pmags, 10/22 mags and Glock 19 mags I would sell at replacement cost if somebody needs a source by 5:00 today. I probably should have posted this earlier and I am not sure what's hard to source right now but hopefully somebody will see this.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:01:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It HAS TO BE. This is generally a mistake. In order to bring oneself within the exception created by the stay, the person claiming the exception must show that he/she is within the bounds of the exception. That includes proving when the magazines were purchased. This is so because the stay is an affirmative defense to a prosecution. The person claiming to be covered by the exception will not succeed if any of the magazines in his/her possession were purchased after the cutoff date and time. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:11:33 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, I misunderstood. Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:23:08 AM EDT
[#7]
I have a question. What would happen to me if I as a Texas resident bought standard magazines and sold them to Californians?
Can Cali come to my door and arrest me? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:25:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Maybe we can set up blind shipments that go to someone out of state and then are forwarded to the customer in Cali.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:26:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a question. What would happen to me if I as a Texas resident bought standard magazines and sold them to Californians? Can Cali come to my door and arrest me? 
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:27:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe we can set up blind shipments that go to someone out of state and then are forwarded to the customer in Cali. 
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:28:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why. In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay. Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class. But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc. So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself. Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. You are eluding to the "enforcement" problem of determining what was bought when. I would love to see the patriots of our nation interpret the law as you are and keep selling - and out of state people such as yourself continue to provide standard mags to CA residents. Typically I try to keep my personal opinions and my legal opinions completely separate. Legally - I feel anything bought or sold after today is a no go. Personally - I say go for it, be a patriot and provide mags to everyone behind enemy lines. Worst case you'll be the test case we all can watch. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:30:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Just made another purchase when the arms unlimited email came out.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:35:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Did cg crash?
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:47:19 AM EDT
[#14]
still in stock, go get 'em
https://palmettostatearmory.com/magpul-pmag-30-5-56x45mm-30-round-magazine-bundle-of-100.html |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:49:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Do people still need sources mags in CA? Or is the EE still sufficient in providing for those that need them?
I could potentially get a bunch shipped today (for replacement cost + shipping (about $11/each)). |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 11:58:33 AM EDT
[#16]
What if we created a small business and offered backorders for magazines with a dated invoice of 4/5/19 for $1 each.
Then we fulfill those “backorders” throughout the month and accept “donations” from 4/6 onward? Hmm |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
still in stock, go get 'em
https://palmettostatearmory.com/magpul-pmag-30-5-56x45mm-30-round-magazine-bundle-of-100.html |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:03:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Jestice Arms order arrived. My Brownells and Black dog machine orders from yesterday have not shipped yet. I just placed a duplicate order from Primary Arms today. Should have went there first. Almost $6 cheaper and they usually ship same day. Hopefully those buyers outside California continue to hold off until after 5pm today. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:28:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Talk about that Judge, what a fucking Indian Giver. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:29:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Beretta is taking orders on their website up until the end.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:29:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did cg crash? 
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:30:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t bought any mags since this started. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My Jestice Arms order arrived. My Brownells and Black dog machine orders from yesterday have not shipped yet. I just placed a duplicate order from Primary Arms today. Should have went there first. Almost $6 cheaper and they usually ship same day. Hopefully those buyers outside California continue to hold off until after 5pm today. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:30:49 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:40:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now we see that Judge Benitez has stayed the ruling partly. He's stopped the flow of mags into the State (or he thinks he has) and has allowed those who bought the mags that made it in to keep them. But whenever that stay goes into effect, that's the mags they'll be contending with that are at issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now we see that Judge Benitez has stayed the ruling partly. He's stopped the flow of mags into the State (or he thinks he has) and has allowed those who bought the mags that made it in to keep them. But whenever that stay goes into effect, that's the mags they'll be contending with that are at issue. Quoted:
I'm not sure if this sort of situation is unprecedented (it likely isn't, but I don't have the info in front of me), but its unusual. My guess is that if the Court of Appeals overturns it, it'll be appealed again to an en banc review. And then it'll be appealed again. If ultimately the mag ban is upheld, I still believe a court is going to go back to the original enforcement date of the statute. Just look at what happened with the bumpstock stuff. For 5 years or whatever, bump stocks were legal in the eyes of the BATFE. But when it reversed and declared them MGs, there was no grandfathering or amnesty by them or the Court. In the minds of both of them, the relevant date of enforcement was May 1986. Any machineguns manufactured after that date, under any circumstance, aren't permitted for civilian ownership. The California mag ban had an enforcement date. If the Court decides ultimately that the law is constitutional and always has been, it's not really at liberty to set a new date; the date has been set by the legislature passing it. But as I say, these are unusual circumstances because the ruling wasn't stayed from the moment it was handed down and not only that, it will have been like a week or something before that stay ultimately goes into effect. Someone mentioned it earlier; its a brilliant tactic by Judge Benitez if he's really thinking of "common use". The state can't go back to the status quo that existed prior to this rulling. A multitude of CA gun owners who had no legal path to posses these devices now posses them legally. Also, I don't think the bump stock thing means anything. For cultural and political reasons, bump stocks and MGs are a very different animal, normal legal analysis doesn't apply. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:41:58 PM EDT
[#25]
PMs answered regarding AK mags. Sorry it took me a minute but I did not see the messenger notification til now.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:44:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to tack some mags on a Primary arms order. But you guys drove the price up. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:46:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:46:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you want to help, don't order anything until after 5pm today. don't want a mag shipment to cali to miss the deadline because Carl ordered a lens cap to Michigan... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I was going to tack some mags on a Primary arms order. But you guys drove the price up. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:47:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Here's where it breaks the fuck down for me:
Why grant a stay preserving a law that you LITERALLY JUST said was unconstitutional? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:48:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a question. What would happen to me if I as a Texas resident bought standard magazines and sold them to Californians? Can Cali come to my door and arrest me? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:49:36 PM EDT
[#31]
If people put backorders in today does that count? As long as the transaction occurs?
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:50:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like as long as the order is in before 5pm, they are good. As long as we aren't ordering cases of mags to make them OOS, others orders shouldn't effect the Cali panic buyers. For example PSA is stopping sales at 4pm PST even though they are allowed until 5pm PST. I am certain there are vendors that will not ship after today. Expect lots of posts next week about vendors cancelling orders that came in before 5pm PST today. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:50:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's where it breaks the fuck down for me: Why grant a stay preserving a law that you LITERALLY JUST said was unconstitutional? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:51:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's where it breaks the fuck down for me: Why grant a stay preserving a law that you LITERALLY JUST said was unconstitutional? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:52:09 PM EDT
[#35]
I would never advocate breaking the law or anything, but hypothetically, if you’re just a little bit sneaky, how can a prosecutor prove that those 100 mags in your possession were purchased yesterday instead of, say, tomorrow?
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:52:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I might be incorrect on what the law currently says, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't the current law in California essentially like NY Safe in that there is no grandfathering of mags, even if they were owned like 25 years ago? I thought that they changed it so that no one could possess a mag over 10 rounds in the state, no matter when it was acquired. In any case, I stand by what I say. Just like a run on bumpstocks or post-86 machineguns, the date of enforcement set by the legislature is the relevant one. That mags bought in this limited window are very grey area and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see them declared contraband if the statute is ultimately upheld. If that happens, people who bought them will be given a limited window (probably 90 days) to come back into compliance and rid themselves of the magazines they acquired in the last week. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I might be incorrect on what the law currently says, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't the current law in California essentially like NY Safe in that there is no grandfathering of mags, even if they were owned like 25 years ago? I thought that they changed it so that no one could possess a mag over 10 rounds in the state, no matter when it was acquired. In any case, I stand by what I say. Just like a run on bumpstocks or post-86 machineguns, the date of enforcement set by the legislature is the relevant one. That mags bought in this limited window are very grey area and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see them declared contraband if the statute is ultimately upheld. If that happens, people who bought them will be given a limited window (probably 90 days) to come back into compliance and rid themselves of the magazines they acquired in the last week. The point is that there is now a legal means of obtaining such mags that previously didn't exist. That means people who had no legal means to obtain such mags now have one. That means mags that couldn't be obtained legally by anyone can now be legally obtained. Yes, the state may make possesion illegal. But that's a small thing next to importing, transferring or manufacturing. Quoted:After that, enforcement will resume as it has since the statute was enacted. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:53:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would never advocate breaking the law or anything, but hypothetically, if you’re just a little bit sneaky, how can a prosecutor prove that those 100 mags in your possession were purchased yesterday instead of, say, tomorrow? I don’t have a moral issue with “breaking laws” that yesterday were deemed unconstitutional and always have believed were. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:54:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because he knew he was up against the tyrannical 9th circuit that would have made everyone criminals once the criminal Cal DOJ went court/Judge shopping for sympathetic communists judges. Judges who shouldve been removed from the bench by force for their past illegal legislation from the bench. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here's where it breaks the fuck down for me: Why grant a stay preserving a law that you LITERALLY JUST said was unconstitutional? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:55:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's where it breaks the fuck down for me: Why grant a stay preserving a law that you LITERALLY JUST said was unconstitutional? Im sorry to say that I'm a little disappointed in the gun owners that don't grasp these concepts. It makes it much harder for our side to win, when part of our team is so ignorant. I encourage every person posting in this thread to start reading the legal challenge threads found here and elsewhere so you understand how this process works. if everyone gets up to speed it will make us so much more effective. And JOIN the CRPA if you live anywhere in the 9th jurisdiction. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:55:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t bought any mags since this started. 
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:58:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He hasn't stopped it yet. It continues until 5 PM. If the court upholds the staute, then mags are illegal to posses. However, everyone who purchased these mags in the window legally purchased them. So the state can't get them for importing, transferring, etc. The state can't go back to the status quo that existed prior to this rulling. A multitude of CA gun owners who had no legal path to posses these devices now posses them legally. Also, I don't think the bump stock thing means anything. For cultural and political reasons, bump stocks and MGs are a very different animal, normal legal analysis doesn't apply.  California Magazine Ban Update with Rick Travis of CRPA |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:58:28 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm going to the range to function test some new ETS and Magpul mags.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:58:35 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm hearing (again) that you MUST BE IN POSESSION by 5pm otherwise you're in conflict with the law.....
? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:58:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PMs answered regarding AK mags. Sorry it took me a minute but I did not see the messenger notification til now. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 12:59:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hearing (again) that you MUST BE IN POSESSION by 5pm otherwise you're in conflict with the law.....
? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 1:01:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey that's fine, I knew I could be incorrect on exactly what the terms of the law were. Someone answer me this. A week ago, what was the situation with mags over 10 rounds? No new imports, but those that had them before 2000 or something could keep them? Just can't transfer them in-state or something? The thing that always gets me about the compliance rate stuff is that its largely irrelevant. Are the 90% of people who aren't in compliance regularly taking them to the range or out to shoot? Or are they collecting dust in a hidden compartment beneath the stairs? Ultimately with these laws, they're trying to prevent you from using the stuff. If you have it and hide it, they're pretty happy about that. So awash or not, if they're all underground and out of sight, they're not all that useful. Prior to this decision, the stay against enforcment only applied to pre-2000 mags. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 1:04:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because stays are a normal part of the appeals process and it was appealed to the 9th. So the judge got ahead of it. Im sorry to say that I'm a little disappointed in the gun owners that don't grasp these concepts. It makes it much harder for our side to win, when part of our team is so ignorant. I encourage every person posting in this thread to start reading the legal challenge threads found here and elsewhere so you understand how this process works. if everyone gets up to speed it will make us so much more effective. And JOIN the CRPA if you live anywhere in the 9th jurisdiction. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 1:05:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to the range to function test some new ETS and Magpul mags. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 1:07:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hearing (again) that you MUST BE IN POSESSION by 5pm otherwise you're in conflict with the law.....
? |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 1:07:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hearing (again) that you MUST BE IN POSESSION by 5pm otherwise you're in conflict with the law.....
? |
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