User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/23/2022 10:04:41 PM EDT
[#1]
What would happen if the surrounding states decided to help Cali out by not selling them electricity, or selling it at such a high cost their residents got a 50% break on their bills?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/23/2022 10:06:23 PM EDT
[#2]
So, just the coal stove then?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/23/2022 10:09:04 PM EDT
[#3]
I laugh along with my Chinese, African, Indian, Russian, and South American brethren.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 1:40:39 AM EDT
[#4]
The poors getting fucked vote Democrat. Democrats support the poor-thus, they have zero incentive for improving their constituents lot in life
The state of California paid millions for 118 ng mixer trucks 5 years ago |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 1:42:46 AM EDT
[#5]
That's going to play well in the mountains of NorCal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 2:11:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There goes VA’s heating. I suppose they should move to a free state /s Anyone getting that we're all in this together yet? TX, how you feeling these days? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 2:13:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Lol
That state is fucked |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 2:14:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. It's not about the environment. It's all about control. The environment is just one of many excuses they use for fucking over the American public intentionally. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 2:14:42 AM EDT
[#9]
LOL, well fuck CA
No heat for you, but you voted for it so I don't care. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 2:58:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. Quoted: Yep, NG is quite a bit more efficient when used for heating. Electric heaters are cheaper to install & maintain than propane furnaces. But that difference is made up within a few years - at today's prices. Electricity rates will most likely soar, of course. A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5° and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29°. In San Francisco, 27°. In Sacramento, 17°. The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 3:18:33 AM EDT
[#11]
I hate California, and it is wonderful to watch them destroy themselves with these stupid green policies.
It'll end up being a very pretty place, with great weather, that is practically uninhabitable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 3:56:37 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. This is about subjugation & control, not "green environment" bullshit. Just in case it's not sufficiently obvious by now: We're not voting our way out of this stupid mess. Way beyond that phase. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 4:58:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. That same natural gas supply running a power plant, that in turn generates electricity for a heat pump (not resistive heat), in most of geographic California's climate, is honestly more efficient than just burning natural gas in the home, with a gas furnace. For the same heat. I'm not saying this policy suggestion of theirs is a good idea (it isn't), I'm just pointing out that natural gas isn't "way more efficient than electric". So don't murder me. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 5:18:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Let's ban the cleanest burning, most abundant natural energy source on the planet. Fuck California. Idiots.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 5:29:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's ban the cleanest burning, most abundant natural energy source on the planet. Fuck California. Idiots. Uh, technically all energy is solar energy... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 5:29:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Electric heating is 100% efficient. Gas furnaces have losses. That being said, one still has to generate the electricity to run the electric heater and that happens with coal or nat gas
Or in CA's case, pixie dust and unicorn farts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 5:30:35 AM EDT
[#17]
The objective is to drive Californians out into other states, preferably lower cost Red states, to change elections
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 5:36:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, lets put all of California on the electric system. What could possibly go wrong  It's shaping up to be an electrical disaster, and it will happen sooner or later. And when it does people will won't to know why didn't the power companies plan for this. They will never blame their liberal leaders. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 5:49:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Wow, you just can't fix stupid.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:18:45 AM EDT
[#20]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:30:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5° and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29°. In San Francisco, 27°. In Sacramento, 17°. The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. Quoted: Yep, NG is quite a bit more efficient when used for heating. Electric heaters are cheaper to install & maintain than propane furnaces. But that difference is made up within a few years - at today's prices. Electricity rates will most likely soar, of course. A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5° and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29°. In San Francisco, 27°. In Sacramento, 17°. The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. LOL |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:43:54 AM EDT
[#22]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:46:25 AM EDT
[#23]
It's a full time job trying to keep people moving to California and this just might be enough.
 Pre-ban homes will sell at a premium. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:47:19 AM EDT
[#24]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:51:35 AM EDT
[#25]
 Yeah, a lot of new construction going on in Low income/disadvantaged neighborhoods. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 6:51:40 AM EDT
[#26]
I hope they all get cold and move out of that state.
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:00:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Less efficient, technically speaking. Quote HistoryQuoted: Less efficient, technically speaking. Quoted: Let's ban the cleanest burning, most abundant natural energy source on the planet. Fuck California. Idiots. We can all agree that the 40 million Americans in California can get fucked but we can't agree if gas is good or bad. At dimondd817 I would have thought the ~1300 watts per meter on the half of the 510 million square km (5.1 x 108 km2) or 196,900,000 square miles of the planet's surface would have been the most abundant natural energy source. 13 megawatts per square mile of energy going to waste every time the sunshines on the dirt so I can't imagine the amount of NG energy present. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:05:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The objective is to drive Californians out into other states, preferably lower cost Red states, to change elections They produce a surplus of liberals that they export out.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:10:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. It’s about control and privation of the people. The ultimate Government dependence. TC |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:14:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And please don't import energy from Arizona or Nevada. We wouldn't want you to virtue signal clean energy and then under the table suck electricity from the grid generated from anything but pixie farts and unicorn smiles. This. AZ elects a DeSantis type and hilarity ensues! TC |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:17:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, 99% of Cali doesn't get below 65% ever... It gets cold along the coast. In June. TC |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:18:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Golden State will ban the sale of all new natural gas-fired space heaters and water heating appliances by 2030 The Golden State is about to become The Brown(out) State. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:20:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More for FIFY. TC |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:26:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5° and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29°. In San Francisco, 27°. In Sacramento, 17°. The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. Yeah, well, every house with a heat pump I’ve been in has been cold in the winter. Now, that’s in the Midwest but those retards will follow too. TC |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:42:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And please don't import energy from Arizona or Nevada. We wouldn't want you to virtue signal clean energy and then under the table suck electricity from the grid generated from anything but pixie farts and unicorn smiles. It's okay. California counts imported fossil fuel energy as zero emissions for California because it originates across state lines.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:46:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, 99% of Cali doesn't get below 65% ever... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Virtue signalling once again. People in Cali rarely have need to heat their home. To show them up, perhaps Wyoming should ban surfing Yup, 99% of Cali doesn't get below 65% ever... I grew up within a mile of the ocean, central coast. It regularly dips in to the 40’s. You don’t have to go very far inland to have freezing temps. The climate varies pretty wildly throughout the state. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 7:53:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Lol...
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:05:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Im confused.
How does Natural Gas pollute? I have a natural gas range I cook on in the kitchen. Totally unvented to the outside. I use it a lot. No one gets sick or dies, not even the canary! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:09:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Democrats love suffering. Democrats, and leftists (pretty much synonymous now) love making OTHER people suffer. You think the elites are going to be affected by this? No. Freakin'. Way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:13:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:15:08 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Virtue signalling once again. People in Cali rarely have need to heat their home. To show them up, perhaps Wyoming should ban surfing Pretty sure they use hot water on a regular basis. Don't think it doesn't get cold in California in the winter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:17:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a bunch of dumb asses. I guess methane from cows is the sole fuel source for heating gas. Don't laugh. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:35:43 AM EDT
[#43]
Meanwhile California is still burning trees to make electricity. It's ok though because the power plants are way out in the desert in the red parts of the state where the tree huggers in San Francisco will never see them and they call the trees "biomass" so it's all good.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:37:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, just the coal stove then? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:37:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HOW much electricity is made by natural gas in Cali? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. Quick search shows about 50% of their electricity is generated from ng fired plants. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:38:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's okay. California counts imported fossil fuel energy as zero emissions for California because it originates across state lines. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69748/TRUESTORY_jpg-2537155.JPG  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:39:32 AM EDT
[#47]
America needs to ban CA.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:42:51 AM EDT
[#48]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:46:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. Quoted: Yep, NG is quite a bit more efficient when used for heating. Electric heaters are cheaper to install & maintain than propane furnaces. But that difference is made up within a few years - at today's prices. Electricity rates will most likely soar, of course. A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5 and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29 . In San Francisco, 27 . In Sacramento, 17 . The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. LOL |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2022 8:48:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5° and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29°. In San Francisco, 27°. In Sacramento, 17°. The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ummmmmmm isn't natural gas heating way, way more efficient than electric? Like I can't see how this would be a net positive for CO2 reduction because their power grid is definitely not all renewables. Quoted: Yep, NG is quite a bit more efficient when used for heating. Electric heaters are cheaper to install & maintain than propane furnaces. But that difference is made up within a few years - at today's prices. Electricity rates will most likely soar, of course. A modern heat pump is 200% efficient down to 5° and 300% at common California temperatures. The all time record low in Los Angeles was 29°. In San Francisco, 27°. In Sacramento, 17°. The average of all gas fired electrical plants is 41% efficient, but the new ones like the one in Pasadena that I used to live near are 56%. Assuming 8% transmission loss, your heat pump at 300% efficiency is 154% efficient. The most efficient gas appliances are 97% efficient. So you use 1/3 less gas to run a heat pump in California. But that's assuming that all their power comes from gas, it does not, about 1/3 of their power comes from renewables that have no thermal losses to speak of. So, no, gas is not a more efficient way to get heat. The math is even more brutal for gas water heaters, which are generally 65% efficient, compared to heat pumps that are over 300% efficient, and FWIW in a cooling climate they also pull heat out of the house so they reduce summertime AC use. That is a perfect representation of what is wrong with California, and really, the whole damn country. Not all of California is LA, San Francisco, San Diego, and Sacramento. If those cities think banning natural gas heat is a good thing, then more power to them, but what makes sense in a few metro areas isn't necessarily the best thing for the whole damn state. 'One size fits all' rules are BS and are at the root of too many problems across the country. Fuck all those rural folks living in the red parts of the state though where the climate isn't so hospitable, right? ETA-. I'm sure installing a heat pump somewhere like Alturas where the ground is 90% basalt will be a real practical undertaking too. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File