User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:31:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Seeing how it’s an emergency use vaccine, I very much doubt an employer can require it.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:33:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't.  That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:34:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't. That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:39:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they don’t require the vaccine, and one employee passes Covid to another employee, they get sued. Assuming they can prove they got covid from a fellow employee, instead of getting it from a family member, trip to Walmart, or gas pump handle |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:39:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For what it's worth, ADA accommodations and FMLA are optional things that employees can choose to request. That's a different thing than an employer requiring medical information. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't know what HIPAA is then, which is common. HIPPA prevents your doctor from releasing private information without consent. Your employer has the right to compel you to answer health related questions that affect your ability to do your job. This idea that "my employer has no right to my health info" is simply ridiculous and more often than not harmful to the employee. How do you ask for reasonable accommodations without informing your employer what needs to be accommodated? How do you request FMLA for injury or illness without reporting the injury or illness? Taking that line with your employer generally results in LOSING the protections employment law gives you and frees the employer up to simply fire you. For what it's worth, ADA accommodations and FMLA are optional things that employees can choose to request. That's a different thing than an employer requiring medical information. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:41:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't. That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:42:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Employers are only the tip. Just wait until retail, banks, transportation, etc. get into the game. Big Brother is watching you! |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:43:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That might work at the gas 'n go but it's not going to work with your employer, unless you think physicians are going to be giving them out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't. That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. I'm talking about organized crime offering them like they offer every other type of contraband. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The following cut and paste from web site I frequent. Not something I have tested. How To Legally Decline A Vaccine STEP 1.) DO NOT refuse'a vaccine. Otherwise you will be considered belligerent. Instead you can politely decline the service by doing the following: STEP 2.) Ask the doctor, "Does the vaccine have MRC-5 in it?" (THEY ALL DO) These are aborted fetal cells and other DNA. If the vaccine contains MRC-5 you have the RIGHT to decline. STEP 3.) Also ask, "Is there a possibility of a "LATROGENIC REACTION? (an adverse reaction caused by multiple compounds or drugs interacting with each other) from the vaccine (THEY ALL DO). - When the doctor says, "yes it does, that is your "Get Out Of Vaccine Free Card. Thank the doctor for their offer and walk away. Remember doctors have sworn the Hippocratic Oath (Which is to do no harm) They must honour it This is how we can legally (and respectfully) decline their offered mandated services and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Now you know! PLEASE SHARE WITH EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT! Gonna go with Boomer chain mail here |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:47:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The following cut and paste from web site I frequent. Not something I have tested. How To Legally Decline A Vaccine STEP 1.) DO NOT refuse'a vaccine. Otherwise you will be considered belligerent. Instead you can politely decline the service by doing the following: STEP 2.) Ask the doctor, "Does the vaccine have MRC-5 in it?" (THEY ALL DO) These are aborted fetal cells and other DNA. If the vaccine contains MRC-5 you have the RIGHT to decline. STEP 3.) Also ask, "Is there a possibility of a "LATROGENIC REACTION? (an adverse reaction caused by multiple compounds or drugs interacting with each other) from the vaccine (THEY ALL DO). - When the doctor says, "yes it does, that is your "Get Out Of Vaccine Free Card. Thank the doctor for their offer and walk away. Remember doctors have sworn the Hippocratic Oath (Which is to do no harm) They must honour it This is how we can legally (and respectfully) decline their offered mandated services and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Now you know! PLEASE SHARE WITH EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT! |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:49:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm talking about organized crime offering them like they offer every other type of contraband. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:52:48 PM EDT
[#12]
How much is your friend willing to spend on a lawyer to fight it? In court, even when you win you lose.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:54:21 PM EDT
[#13]
I just don't see it happening
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:54:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The following cut and paste from web site I frequent. Not something I have tested. How To Legally Decline A Vaccine STEP 1.) DO NOT refuse'a vaccine. Otherwise you will be considered belligerent. Instead you can politely decline the service by doing the following: STEP 2.) Ask the doctor, "Does the vaccine have MRC-5 in it?" (THEY ALL DO) These are aborted fetal cells and other DNA. If the vaccine contains MRC-5 you have the RIGHT to decline. STEP 3.) Also ask, "Is there a possibility of a "LATROGENIC REACTION? (an adverse reaction caused by multiple compounds or drugs interacting with each other) from the vaccine (THEY ALL DO). - When the doctor says, "yes it does, that is your "Get Out Of Vaccine Free Card. Thank the doctor for their offer and walk away. Remember doctors have sworn the Hippocratic Oath (Which is to do no harm) They must honour it This is how we can legally (and respectfully) decline their offered mandated services and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Now you know! PLEASE SHARE WITH EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT! lol Did your aunt or mother forward that to you? 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:56:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't. That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. Yeah, but that's going to be a VERY short-term thing. There is zero doubt in my mind that either Fedgov, or the states, will set up a data-base that they can check - available to employers, schools, state agencies, pizza delivery places, whatever. Oh, of course they won't do that for voter registration, immigration status or work authorization ... but they will TOTALLY do it to make sure you comply with their COVID directives. It's for your own safety, citizen. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:56:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryRemember doctors have sworn the Hippocratic Oath (Which is to do no harm) They must honour it Sorry, not true. See abortion. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:05:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry, not true. See abortion. And gender reassignment surgery |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:06:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. No problem. I will fax you a photocopy after I’ve redacted sensitive information. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:12:00 PM EDT
[#19]
On the FD I retired from it is not mandatory but going forward they will not be covered under workers comp if you get sick. Not a big surprise but if you get hurt and aren't wearing appropriate for the task PPE, you are at risk of being told, tough shit, should have had your helmet on when the roof collapsed.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:15:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point taken, but that's a separate issue. Yes, "no shot, no service" is going to be a thing. I predict a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards will be born. I plan to purchase one. You are going to let this thing turn you into a liar or a fraud? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:17:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, but that's going to be a VERY short-term thing. There is zero doubt in my mind that either Fedgov, or the states, will set up a data-base that they can check - available to employers, schools, state agencies, pizza delivery places, whatever. Oh, of course they won't do that for voter registration, immigration status or work authorization ... but they will TOTALLY do it to make sure you comply with their COVID directives. It's for your own safety, citizen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't. That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. Yeah, but that's going to be a VERY short-term thing. There is zero doubt in my mind that either Fedgov, or the states, will set up a data-base that they can check - available to employers, schools, state agencies, pizza delivery places, whatever. Oh, of course they won't do that for voter registration, immigration status or work authorization ... but they will TOTALLY do it to make sure you comply with their COVID directives. It's for your own safety, citizen. Big question would be "would this be possible under HIPPA." |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:20:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big question would be "would this be possible under HIPPA." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it ever becomes "mandatory", then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn't. That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. This reinforces my belief that there will be a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards. Yeah, but that's going to be a VERY short-term thing. There is zero doubt in my mind that either Fedgov, or the states, will set up a data-base that they can check - available to employers, schools, state agencies, pizza delivery places, whatever. Oh, of course they won't do that for voter registration, immigration status or work authorization ... but they will TOTALLY do it to make sure you comply with their COVID directives. It's for your own safety, citizen. Big question would be "would this be possible under HIPPA." Second biggest question would be "would this be possible under HIPAA?" |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:21:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Hospitals around here (intermountain healthcare) makes the flu shot mandatory. My wife refused to get one when she was pregnant and they fired her for it. Covid is also mandatory for all employees. She’s been a stay at home mom since they fired her two years ago
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:22:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No problem. I will fax you a photocopy after I've redacted sensitive information. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's easy. Bring me a note from your physician. No note? No job. FWIW I'm not going to force my employees to get a vaccine, and frankly I don't like the idea of an employer doing it. But some of you guys have really misguided understanding of employment law and I'm trying to help you not fuck yourselves. No problem. I will fax you a photocopy after I've redacted sensitive information. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:24:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...Ask the doctor, "Does the vaccine have MRC-5 in it?" (THEY ALL DO) These are aborted fetal cells and other DNA....  |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:24:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Stop being drama queens and dont get the shot already.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:27:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big question would be "would this be possible under HIPPA." How would what he describes be possible under HIPAA? Simple. Withhold service until you give consent of release. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:28:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My body my choice right? Or does that not apply when it comes to injecting stuff into your body as part of a beta test? That only applies when you want to murder an innocent baby. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:29:21 PM EDT
[#29]
My employer is currently 100% work from home. Wouldn't be surprised to wake up with an email from HR mandating it one day soon.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:31:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had heard the fact it is under emergency authorization means it cannot be a requirement to hold a job but a lot of states allow you to be fired for any reason or no reason. As long as EUA, they can’t. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:31:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Many employers now fire you for smoking, and require testing.
So, I'm gonna guess that's a big fat 'yes' on the vaccines. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:36:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As long as EUA, they can’t. The doctor at my employer used the term “unconscionable” for requiring the vaccine while it’s under an emergency authorization. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:40:08 PM EDT
[#33]
If you work for the government they can mandate it. At least in public safety positions.
CDC is now giving out an immunization card that you are given to show when you were vaccinated, and by who. The lot number of the vaccine is listed on the card along with the provider information. Kind of hard to fake that. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:41:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right now, I believe the answer is "probably" By the fall, I believe the answer will be "definitely" This. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:43:48 PM EDT
[#35]
I work in healthcare.
Everything is mandatory. Flu shots are, so I assume covid vaccines will be too. I've already had both of mine. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:44:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell your friend to identify himself as Christian Scientist and that vaccines are an affront to his religious beliefs. His boss cannot legally make him prove that he is not a CS. THIS. Though depending on state people cna be fired for any reason in some states. FORCING isnt the word your friend should be using, he isnt being chained at gun point ot a bench and WHIPPED if he doesnt assemble widgets is he? that is a FORCED labor situation or threatened with Ft. Levenworth if he doesnt work. Instead your friend's CONTINUED employment is dependant on him vaccinating. HUGE differance. both legally and morally. if your friend is self forced to work for the guy (more bills than money) then the EMPLOYER isnt forcing him, he forced himself to vaccinate. Is there anything FORCING him to keep working there? (men with guns will shoot if he resigns? chains locking him to work station?_ |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:44:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Experimental?
Prolly knot |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:44:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Forcing your employees to take an experimental, unapproved drug as a condition of employment seems fraught with liability concerns.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:45:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the record, I am assuming that my employer will make it mandatory for faculty and staff within the next couple of months. Same here. We are currently identified as 1B. I know my employer is actively seeking to "assist" vaccination efforts by offering to conduct vaccinations at work. I'm certain that once the avalanche of "must have vaccine to wok" starts, it will be mandatory at my workplace. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:47:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forcing your employees to take an experimental, unapproved drug as a condition of employment seems fraught with liability concerns. wrong |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:48:04 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you work for the government they can mandate it. At least in public safety positions. CDC is now giving out an immunization card that you are given to show when you were vaccinated, and by who. The lot number of the vaccine is listed on the card along with the provider information. Kind of hard to fake that. Only if someone checks. We live in a culture where most people believe things on face value unless there are significant red flags. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:49:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That'll depend on state laws. I'm not a lawyer, but in Wyoming, I'm 99% certain they could get away with saying emloyees can't have any more shifts until they've got proof of vaccination on file. How is that different from saying " you MUST wear steel toe work boots and hard hat to work here" as a condition of clockign in. LOTS of jobs have that. Or "Must be XYZ machinery certified to clock in for XYZ machinery useage shift. ". FORCING somone to get medical treatment is reserved for military and prisons ... |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:51:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve talked to an employment lawyer about it a couple months ago. Here in FL- They can make it a requirement for employment If you chose not to get it, they can fire you There hasn’t been any case law established yet for this particular scenario. So I guess you’d file for unemployment or whatever else you would want to pursue. From talking to someone dealing with vaccine and employment issues, they’ve seen ridiculous pressure from the employer. People were afraid to lose their jobs and stood in line crying while waiting for the shot. Truly a great place to work. PSSSHT 10 minutes in kinos copies and problem solved. Trust me, Ive got 3 PHD's and an MD. Ive even got my own OBGYN practice in that van over there...
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:54:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Funny how this website's enthusiasm for the rights of private businesses tends to waver back and forth depending on the topic of the day.
As a reminder, in at-will employment states, a private employer may generally let their employees go for any reason that does not fall under a protected class. "I'm scared of the vaccine" is not one of the protected classes of employment in this country. Ergo, if a private business owner wishes to maintain a workforce solely made up of people who are vaccinated, then that would seem to be within their right. With that said, I'll close with some advice that some of the most steadfast arfcommers have given about jobs: Don't like it? Find a new job. No jobs in your area? Move. 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#45]
HR sent an email since I guess people were asking. We're generally not eligible for it yet the way our industry is grouped in the phased rollout. Unless you have certain medical conditions.
The one thing I took away from the email was they said " At this time, it is not a requirement to receive the vaccine" so I read it as them saying as soon as it's widely available it will be required. I doubt it will be a site requirement but most likely come down from corporate requiring all employees at all sites get it. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:56:36 PM EDT
[#46]
No, but an employer could refuse to schedule you until you had it.
In an at-will employment state they can fire you for not getting it. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:56:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Well, you won't find me standing up for the rights of private employers. I've been screwed by more businessmen than by any government agency I've worked for. I believe the private sector needs some deep and substantial reforms, but that's going off on a tangient.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:59:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seeing how it’s an emergency use vaccine, I very much doubt an employer can require it. AT WILL EMPLOYMENT cuts both ways, meaning you cna up and quit on 10 seconds notice for ANy REASON. (dont expect any sort of recomendation from FORMER employer though) . EMPLOYER can do the same except in a few circumstances(cant fire you for gender, race, or medical conditions(some exceptions, cant have blind cops, bus drivers, ect)). . "REQUIRE" and "FORCE" keep being used incorrectly, until there are guns pointed at people in teh vaccine line it isnt FORCED. granted it can be hugely pressured, resulting in loss of employment, living off cold soup in a cardboard box, begging for change, but FORCE was not used. Tienanmen square was FORCING the end of a protest, FORCING is storming beaches of normandy to FORCE hitler to stop invading, FORCE is cops PIT maneuvering a speeding car and cuffing the driver. Saying " do this or you are fired" isnt FORCE it is ismply a condition of employment, nobody would bat an eye if their boss said "make widgets or you are fired" |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:59:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Funny how this website's enthusiasm for the rights of private businesses tends to waver back and forth depending on the topic of the day. As a reminder, in at-will employment states, a private employer may generally let their employees go for any reason that does not fall under a protected class. "I'm scared of the vaccine" is not one of the protected classes of employment in this country. Ergo, if a private business owner wishes to maintain a workforce solely made up of people who are vaccinated, then that would seem to be within their right. With that said, I'll close with some advice that some of the most steadfast arfcommers have given about jobs: Don't like it? Find a new job. No jobs in your area? Move. THIS |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 2:59:37 PM EDT
[#50]
I read somewhere that if a hospital or medical facility makes their workers take an experimental vaccine their workers compensation must cover any side effects from the vaccine. That's why medical facilities havent yet forced their employees to take it, their workers compensation doesn't want to cover the side effects. Once it's taken out of experimental status (and the new Covid bill may do exactly that), then its like a flu shot.
Edit: I expect that after this lots of employers will also require the annual flu shots, not just medical but pretty much all essential businesses and anywhere that works with people. The annual seasonal Flu shot, Covid shot (and booster), MMR and TDaP will all be required for the vaccine "passport". |
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