that was our plan until my wife’s van was hit from behind and totaled - insurance didn’t pay crap

to add insult to injury the replacement has been in the shop for two months waiting on a new transmission

I love that idiots think that “the advantage of the 3-5 year warranty” isn’t added to the purchase price of a vehicle.  Not to mention that the reliability of new vehicles (even the huge turds) and the caveats in the contract protect the car companies from losing any money

Edit:  and the warranty model can contribute to lost/down time liability.  While those that live in metro areas may benefit, those of us that live a rural existence may have to drive and lose work hours to obtain service, rather than use the local mechanic that is a mile down the road.  While your Hyundai dealer is 100mi away, my cash paid land cruiser is at Bubba Jack the trusted local mechanic and I’m driving my cash paid truck to work.  And no, my repair costs aren’t more than your payment, and my cars have actually appreciated in value

Lo siento, pero yo no comprendo.

That's funny.  I was actually thinking we need less regulation on car features, emissions systems, etc.  My argument would be for consumers to directly drive the market and not .gov influence.  But I can see how I left it open for interpritation.

Except the consumer wants all those features. Sadly this first thing the buyer looks at is “how big is the screen and can I hook my phone to it”

This forum is full of dudes. We care about motor, torque, will it do the job.

Sally only cares about if she can voice command the car and will car read texts from mom to her. Half the population. Half they buyers. Add in male puss fucks and you’re up to about 80% of buyers you eliminated by not having texts read from mom by your car.

A friend of mine has over $30,000 sunk into a 1987 M998 A0 Humvee (that I sold him)

6.5l Turbo Engine
AFtermarket TCM
Kevlar Tires
Custom Wheels.
2in suspension lift.
Aftermarket air cond system.

I sold him that M998 for $10,000 used the money to buy two former Special Forces Ground Mobility Vehicle HMMWV variants, which are worth over $45,000 each in restored condition.

The government destroyed thousands of cars during cash for clunkers

The government continues to mandate expensive safety requirements and ridiculous mileage

The government actively incentivizes EVs

The government taxes the fuck out of fuel and limits drilling with the EPA

Enjoy your 10(warranty) - 15(non-warranty) hour water pump replacement labor when they have to drop the motor because the water pump is INTERNAL.

Here's the one I did.

Mine is knocking on 200k.  

No major issues with it other than replacing the throttle body and the oil pressure sensor.

You left out the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car. Paid $6800 for a 2005 MGM Ultimate Edition with 58000 on the odometer two years ago. It's my daily driver when I can't use the bike, and other than having to repair the factory air ride system, and having the a/c fixed (beyond my shadetree skillset), it is been as reliable as the sunrise.

Planned obsolescence. Can't sell all the newest cars and trucks if people are still driving an old reliable 20 year old car or truck.

I think you're missing the point about slavery not being voluntary and buying a car is.

More government means less freedom and capitalism.

Whatever it takes to by-pass the finance guy's 60-minute long attempt to ween more money out of me.

That's the main reason why we haven't sold my wife's Edge. It has 150000 on the odometer, runs and drives like new, and is going to need a new front wheel bearing in a year or two. She walks to work, as we live on-post, about two blocks from her job. If something on my car goes out, I don't have to scramble to fix it in a weekend so I have a car to drive to work.

Yes and with the administrations drive to lower the value of the American dollar working so very well that's only going to get worse.

Save up and pay cash, the more debt you get yourself in the more you are enslaved to your job working for someone else.

Because liberalism teaches victimhood and reparations and conservatism teaches hard work and self-denial.

Is it, though? If you live in a major urban area with reliable public transportation, sure, you can survive without a car. If, however, you live in the 'burbs, or in a rural area, and the commute to work requires some form of transportation, a car can rapidly go from a want to a need. That need can multiply if you have kids, and you have to drive them places.

Speaking of living in the city. There are plenty of problems with it and, while I sometimes long for a rural small town life… One of the best benefits of city living is not needing a car for most daily errands. At least a well designed urban city OR an ability to use a bicycle to get some exersize whilst doing daily errands.

I never could understand suburbia.  They pack you together nearly as dense (most burbs have houses like 5’ apart) but you also get to deal with long drives in rural areas. Expect the traffic in suburbia is far worse like in the city (but cannot be avoided).

So. When you end up rarely driving except to go long distances.  Your car lasts forever and you can drive a POS and not GAF.  If it breaks you can afford to put it in the shop and if it takes a week…. Oh well I’ll just ride my bike while they sort it out.

This is where I’ll go ahead and disagree. While you’re right about a lot of options on average, safety, mpg, and emissions are some areas where the government definitely fucks with what consumers actually want.

Some of the replies in the thread pretty quickly jump to "gotta have transportation, so gotta have cars, gotta have the expense and can't control it, can't change the system even though I don't like it" mentality.  That's my definition of slavery and loan or not, proves the OP's point.

I firmly believe government intervention in safety features, driver aids, emissions, mpg, recyclability, etc., has given us a worse product.  Look at current diesel pickup truck emissions systems.  How can you say that setup actually leads to lower NET emissions after you add all that weight of junk to the vehicle, maintain it, pull all those extra minerals/metals out of the ground, truck retail DEF around in plastic/cardboard boxes, etc.  Is that really a net environmental gain over the life cycle of the vehicle vs the extra NOx and particulate emissions?

You're right, the average new car buyer cares about bells and whistles, to some degree depending on the buyer.  For instance, my MIL shops for an ipad/entertainment/comfy living room device more than she looks for a means of transportation.  Her last car, she had for 9 months before winter came and she discovered wasn't AWD when she couldn't get in her driveway.  I mean, fuck, how do you not ask that when you shop?  But it would read her text messages, and has blind spot warnings so she doesn't have to turn her head to back up, right?  So then we were watching TV and she saw a commercial for a nissan rogue, where they showed it had a knob on the dash for snow mode, sand mode, etc.  She said she wanted one of those.  Because the knob.  But she will only consider new leases because reliability/warranty.  Yet, her last three leases were at the dealer far more often than I have to do work on my three older "junkers."  She figures she can afford it and my data point doesn't appear on her radar.

I agree, GD is (on average) less focused on such.  Infotainment systems are outdated when new (vs aftermarket) and can be easily upgraded/updated on a used car through a $400 head unit if the manufacturer hasn't overly embedded the features into other aspects of the car.  

So I get it.  The used car market consists of choices made by people 3-5 years earlier.  For those that have money to burn or aren't trying to manage auto expenses, it doesn't matter.  For those of us that do try to manage it, the market looks broken.

As the used car buyer, I want to know what type of maintenance and repairs are typical for that model and if those are things I can take on or learn myself...which is mostly internet and youtube research.  That's the disconnect between some new car buyers/leasers (short term) and used car shoppers.  There are plenty of things on a 2GR-FE or LBZ that I don't want to take on myself and I'm gambling that I won't have to.

I'll never understand people's obsession with mOdEz on everyday family cars. Tow haul on a pickup? Sure. Performance mode on a sports car? Neat. But 7 modes on a 2wd family bus? What the hell is that even supposed to accomplish?

1st car - 1993 Toyota Camry LE in 2006 ($1000 at 17)
2nd car - 2003 Ford F-150 in 2012 ($3500)
3rd car - 2003 Toyota 4Runner in 2015 ($5000)

Meanwhile my friend just bought his "dream truck," a 2019 F150 with 20k miles on it. Lifted, 35's, the whole nine. It's a real nice truck but he paid $45k for the motherfucker

Illusion. I remember cars in the 80s having an “eco” mode. It didn’t change shit except for maybe limit fuel on those new tangled fuel injector thingys.

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when you reduce your expenses in such a way that it is possible to take multiple years off without any income, it's a pretty darn good position.

Except that the economic realities will reassert themselves and the credit-based lifestyle will evaporate.
The national debt is headed to 32 Trillion. Who do you think is going to pay it?
And how?

Another footnote on this subject..


when you 'borrow' for a vehicle note, the bank doesn't really have the 'money' for you. They create them out of thin air, more or less.

Increasing the total 'money' supply, creating inflation.  Same thing goes for RE. Borrowing is inflationary and you will get to pay for it a second time when all the prices on everything go up and up.

Think, why have prices gone up in the last year, decade, century?

In our economic system, credit=money. If all the debts were paid, including the 32T national debt, there would be no money left in existence.

The new crap that you can buy breaks down too. I see newish Mercedes, etc. being towed away.  New doesn't mean it's reliable. What it does mean is repairs will be expensive. Especially on imports.

A 20 year old GM crap will be easier and simpler to maintain than a 5 year old Bimmer or MB or Audi.

The first step in American life is figure out how to make good money and spend much much less.

I love the United States and I believe in it as a country.




1. You NEED a car by design here.

2. The govt makes cheap housing illegal.


These two points alone force people to either give up or front run and makes lots of money.
There is no spot for a poorer family.

Yes, the best option for you.  Your option may or may not be the lowest cost of ownership for me because my work or driving habits or family and so on.

Paying cash is not always the best option for everyone.  Sometimes it is.


Make a fuck ton of money and none it makes a difference.

Stop living beyond your means. You borrow and sell yourself into slavery. No one's fault but yours. You want the best of everything but then sell your soul and firstborn to pay for it. Who put the gun to your head and said, "Sign here." I haven't bought a vehicle in 35 years without paying in cash and never paid more than $9,000. It can be done.

Paying cash is for people that can’t manage cash flow or budget. So called pay check to check folk.

By paying cash they stop the hand to mouth habit. So that’s good. But don’t call it a wise financial decision. It’s not.

Transportation is an expense. How one manages that expense is up to them. Just like housing and food, utilities.

Yep.

Paying cash is a way to manage your budget. Living on a cash flow is not much different than living on Vegas winnings. What happens when you have a losing streak?

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That’s what the cash buffer is for instead of blowing it on a depreciating asset.

To your analogy, paying cash is a guaranteed loser. Inflation always wins as does depreciation asset.

Thats good. Mine hasn't been as fortunate but its going strong...