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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:42:52 PM EST
[#1]
The slavery hierarchy:
Taxes>consumer debt. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:46:55 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 0% Sorry about your credit rating  How does one with an 800+ score get this rate? My wife just 'qualified' for 7.99% with an 812 |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:52:58 PM EST
[#3]
Mediaeval serf "This is way better than making a car payment"
Christian slave in one of the Barbary states "Way better than a car payment" Appalachian farmer living on corn gruel "Glad I don't have to make a car payment" Present Third World poor living in a cardboard shack with no water or power "But hey, no car payment" If you showed the current American lifestyle to almost any human in history they would all happily trade an arm for a shot at it. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:54:51 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t tell me. You bought a Yugo. For those that never heard of it. I saw one on the dealer’s lot many years ago. Someone had glued pennies all over it. The pennies were worth more than the car. Used to work on yugo's. Their value went up and down based on how much fuel they had in them. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:55:21 PM EST
[#5]
Free money is a gift, not a loan at 0%
If it is a loan, you are bound to pay back the lender. What does it cost you? Exactly how much the loan is for. If you want to be slave to a lender, you are free to do so. You're giving someone else authority to tell you what to do and the best approach is one which leaves you the most freedom to grow your wealth without someone else's direction. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:57:44 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one seems to factor in the cost of the free money, as one poster pointed out. How many thousands of dollars is the dealership tacting onto the final price to give you the luxury of borrowing their money at 0%? This guy gets it. There's no way the institution of automanufactury is selling you that car financed at 0% and not making it up elsewhere. Their lie is: "the car is the same price, financed or not, so why not live the financed life." The money is costing the lender something and they're building it in somewhere. They've just penalized the cash buyer to arrive at that point. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:59:16 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you aren't factoring in the benefits of a full warranty for 3-5 years. Without it, you pay for everything that goes wrong. That's not the way it should be. WTH are we buying cars from manufacturers that deliver a good vehicle and count on the warranty to get through what should be the most reliable years of service? The year is 2023. Why has vehicle dependability regressed? |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 1:00:47 PM EST
[#8]
I don’t mind the payment on my new truck. It’s almost $800/mo but it’s also the nicest truck I’ve ever owned, and I only have two years left on the note. I could have bought a cheap old truck for cash but I chose to get something nice instead and it’ll presumably be here long after the payments are finished.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 1:05:42 PM EST
[#9]
$0 vehicle payment
$0 mortgage Buy lots of guns $$$ Can shoot out of my window at targets set up behind the barn. 
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Posted: 1/10/2023 1:11:27 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not the way it should be. WTH are we buying cars from manufacturers that deliver a good vehicle and count on the warranty to get through what should be the most reliable years of service? The year is 2023. Why has vehicle dependability regressed? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And you aren't factoring in the benefits of a full warranty for 3-5 years. Without it, you pay for everything that goes wrong. That's not the way it should be. WTH are we buying cars from manufacturers that deliver a good vehicle and count on the warranty to get through what should be the most reliable years of service? The year is 2023. Why has vehicle dependability regressed? Who gives a fuck how you think it SHOULD be. We don't deal with the world as it SHOULD be, we deal with it as it is. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 1:11:58 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Free money is a gift, not a loan at 0% If it is a loan, you are bound to pay back the lender. What does it cost you? Exactly how much the loan is for. If you want to be slave to a lender, you are free to do so. You're giving someone else authority to tell you what to do and the best approach is one which leaves you the most freedom to grow your wealth without someone else's direction. That's a load of shit and only shows you have no understanding of basic finances. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 1:12:47 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does one with an 800+ score get this rate? My wife just 'qualified' for 7.99% with an 812 To be honest it was just good timing. I had been dragging my feet on buying a new truck and after reading GD I saw the writing on the wall about how bad inflation was gonna get. I literally brought my checkbook to the dealer ready to just write a check for it. Then the finance guy said would you like to see what I can do for you? I said sure! He came back and said they will finance the entire amount, nothing down, at 0%. I sat there thinking why the fuck not? I'll just hang on to my $$ and dole it back out to them slowly. I could not be happier with the truck or the deal. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 1:31:41 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Free money is a gift, not a loan at 0% If it is a loan, you are bound to pay back the lender. What does it cost you? Exactly how much the loan is for. If you want to be slave to a lender, you are free to do so. You're giving someone else authority to tell you what to do and the best approach is one which leaves you the most freedom to grow your wealth without someone else's direction. Giving back principal you are lent is not a "cost" under any set of accounting principals that I'm familiar with. I think it would also be worth your time to understand the role of debt outside of consumer transactions. More people get rich with debt or other forms of OPM than without. You should ask yourself why the gap between the rich and poor has done nothing but get larger during the last 40 years of a generally declining interest rate environment. It's not because all of this money pushed on to the market at artificially low interest rates has been bad for the individuals and companies who have been utilizing it in their capital structure. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:30:42 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who gives a fuck how you think it SHOULD be. We don't deal with the world as it SHOULD be, we deal with it as it is. Well, I do. As long as people buy vehicles with the mentality that the warranty period is a grace period for the dealers to fix what the manufacturer didn't get right in the first place, it'll keep happening. Companies will make the products they can sell profitably. If our country/marketplace/government isn't setup for them to make products that interest the consumer, the consumer is one of the parties that can influence that change. I'd say it's actually our responsibility. Don't like the "features" on vehicles that are making them unreliable? Pressure your politician on the regulations. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:35:15 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do. As long as people buy vehicles with the mentality that the warranty period is a grace period for the dealers to fix what the manufacturer didn't get right in the first place, it'll keep happening. Companies will make the products they can sell profitably. If our country/marketplace/government isn't setup for them to make products that interest the consumer, the consumer is one of the parties that can influence that change. I'd say it's actually our responsibility. Don't like the "features" on vehicles that are making them unreliable? Pressure your politician on the regulations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who gives a fuck how you think it SHOULD be. We don't deal with the world as it SHOULD be, we deal with it as it is. Well, I do. As long as people buy vehicles with the mentality that the warranty period is a grace period for the dealers to fix what the manufacturer didn't get right in the first place, it'll keep happening. Companies will make the products they can sell profitably. If our country/marketplace/government isn't setup for them to make products that interest the consumer, the consumer is one of the parties that can influence that change. I'd say it's actually our responsibility. Don't like the "features" on vehicles that are making them unreliable? Pressure your politician on the regulations. There outta be a law! |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:36:16 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And thanks to inflation, the asset isn't depreciating as quickly as usual. Also not true. Perhaps the numerical value isn't falling as quickly, but the buying power represented by that number (by extension what you would get in trade of the asset) most certainly is...because inflation. The last thing any of us should want is for inflation to be so out of control that it props up the numerical value of our depreciating physical assets. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:38:33 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? So everyone didn't get an inheritance so they could buy a house and two new cars like I did ?   we paid off our house, bought two new trucks and banked the rest. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:46:11 PM EST
[#18]
business write off's...
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:53:29 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also not true. Perhaps the numerical value isn't falling as quickly, but the buying power represented by that number (by extension what you would get in trade of the asset) most certainly is...because inflation. The last thing any of us should want is for inflation to be so out of control that it props up the numerical value of our depreciating physical assets. Want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster. The facts are the facts. The buying power of the asset depends on what you own. I have a newish pickup and I could currently trade it in for about what I paid for it. If I trade it on another pickup, no, I won't get that extra money out of it. But if I trade for an SUV or a sedan, then I will. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:54:32 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do. As long as people buy vehicles with the mentality that the warranty period is a grace period for the dealers to fix what the manufacturer didn't get right in the first place, it'll keep happening. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who gives a fuck how you think it SHOULD be. We don't deal with the world as it SHOULD be, we deal with it as it is. Well, I do. As long as people buy vehicles with the mentality that the warranty period is a grace period for the dealers to fix what the manufacturer didn't get right in the first place, it'll keep happening. No, it'll keep happening no matter what because people have to have transportation. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 2:55:44 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4 pickups and two trucks all paid for. Building a house with cash while I live in a semi trailer. I don’t owe anyone shit, but it’s not a glamorous life currently. If you're happy I'm happy for you but that sounds like a miserable way to live to me. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:02:33 PM EST
[#22]
Nobody has a gun put to their head when they decide to go out and shop for a car, period.
Noone HAS to purchase a NEW car, period. Noone HAS to buy a $70k plus Pickup or SUV, period. There ARE cheaper alternatives out there, pursue them instead of pulling a dumb ass move and pissing about it later. Overpriced gas pigs and 72 plus month loans are for Financial Retards!!!! |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:24:12 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster. The facts are the facts. The buying power of the asset depends on what you own. I have a newish pickup and I could currently trade it in for about what I paid for it. If I trade it on another pickup, no, I won't get that extra money out of it. But if I trade for an SUV or a sedan, then I will. Quote HistoryQuoted: Want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster. The facts are the facts. The buying power of the asset depends on what you own. I have a newish pickup and I could currently trade it in for about what I paid for it. If I trade it on another pickup, no, I won't get that extra money out of it. But if I trade for an SUV or a sedan, then I will. You don't come out ahead, because your hypothetical SUV or sedan has also inflated and the dollars your recoup on the sale/trade of the asset have lost value, due to the very definition of inflation, which is a measure of all assets. Tying your money up in a vehicle as an investment/hedge against inflation only works when the vehicle is leading other items in inflation. You're saying you come out ahead because you have more dollars but in the end, those dollars do less. Depreciation/use of the asset still costs you. Quoted: No, it'll keep happening no matter what because people have to have transportation. Needing transportation is different than needing a financed new car. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:26:18 PM EST
[#24]
Low income/low wealth=financial slavery
Warn your kids before they figure it out too late. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:26:40 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't come out ahead, because your hypothetical SUV or sedan has also inflated and the dollars your recoup on the sale of the asset have lost value, due to the very definition of inflation, which is a measure of all assets. Tying your money up in a vehicle as a hedge against invlation No one is "tying up" their money in a vehicle as a "hedge against inflation." We have to have vehicles. Getting a low-interest loan isn't "tying up your money" as opposed to paying outright. It's the opposite. You're letting your money work for you. You have a bassackwards view of finances. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:32:17 PM EST
[#26]
I hate working on primary transportation. It always breaks down at inconvenient times, like going to work. Once you have a $2400/month truck payment, $700 per month seems like nothing.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:51:41 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one is "typing up" their money in a vehicle as a "hedge against inflation." We have to have vehicles. Getting a low-interest loan isn't "tying up your money" as opposed to paying outright. It's the opposite. You're letting your money work for you. You have a bassackwards view of finances. And your view of finances is too focused on one particular facet. Go back to your initial posts. You're advocating a system that only works if you can manage to buy vehicles when interest is low, finance them, and then hold them into a high period of appreciation of that asset. Due to inflation, the .gov then raises interest, which makes you feel like a winner on both fronts: inflation and interest. That's not a system. That's catching a transient be it by luck or by well researched information. That's market timing. You're right, there was a period in recent history of low interest and reasonable inflation. If you bought depreciating assets at the end of that period, you came out ahead vs anyone that waited. But you didn't come out ahead against the person that avoided the depreciating asset expense in the first place. You still lost buying power due to inflation and your investment in a depreciating asset. If you were that good at market timing, why not just do market timing? Time all the things, but don't pretend that transients inform wise financial practice. We're entering into a time of higher interest and even higher inflation. Time for a different strategy. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:53:22 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The slavery hierarchy: Taxes>consumer debt. I pay enough to buy a nice C8 cash every year in taxes. Fuck taxes. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:56:24 PM EST
[#29]
road salt is just a tool to keep me enslaved.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 3:58:44 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody has a gun put to their head when they decide to go out and shop for a car, period. Noone HAS to purchase a NEW car, period. Noone HAS to buy a $70k plus Pickup or SUV, period. There ARE cheaper alternatives out there, pursue them instead of pulling a dumb ass move and pissing about it later. Overpriced gas pigs and 72 plus month loans are for Financial Retards!!!! If the entire market is inflated and all dealers are marking up with little supply and the used cars are more expensive than new, yes it’s a gun to your head. Somebody has to buy a new car to buy used cars. Agree, nobody has to buy a 70k pickup or SUV. There are cheaper alternatives, but for many the cheaper are unreliable and affect their income because of the increased maintenance/repairs. Overpriced gas pigs and 72 month loans are retarded…unless you are a business flush with capital expenditure budgets, want a low APR, with a depreciation schedule in your benefit. For the common consumer, many people are way over the heads and the market will correct it when they lose their job or walk away from the loan because they are deeply underwater. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 4:06:45 PM EST
[#31]
I think that the term for those who don’t like loans is “financial obligations”.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 4:24:18 PM EST
[#32]
The one thing i am never ever taking a loan for is a car.
When it comes to business credits i don't see anything bad in that, especially if you need it for extension. We had few of them from vive financial (read more about them) and never had any troubles with them. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 4:25:13 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that the term for those who don’t like loans is “financial obligations”. Technically liability. But transportation is an expense. How you manage that expense is up to you. The loan payment is just part of overall expense. That’s why you lease. 0% financing and .9% on a lease was free money. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 4:34:18 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Used to work on yugo's. Their value went up and down based on how much fuel they had in them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don’t tell me. You bought a Yugo. For those that never heard of it. I saw one on the dealer’s lot many years ago. Someone had glued pennies all over it. The pennies were worth more than the car. Used to work on yugo's. Their value went up and down based on how much fuel they had in them. Good point. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 4:46:20 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: road salt is just a tool to keep me enslaved. 
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:09:19 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Free money is a gift, not a loan at 0% If it is a loan, you are bound to pay back the lender. What does it cost you? Exactly how much the loan is for. If you want to be slave to a lender, you are free to do so. You're giving someone else authority to tell you what to do and the best approach is one which leaves you the most freedom to grow your wealth without someone else's direction. I'd argue that a 0% loan is a gift, due to inflation. You get capital now and pay it back later using devalued currency. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:18:22 PM EST
[#37]
This whole thread has to do with the total cost of ownership for a specific vehicle at the specific time, until the vehicle is sold or scrapped.
People who pay cash are front loading the car payment. People who purchase on credit are paying interest which adds into the total cost of ownership. People who lease are paying interest for a specific period of time and milage which adds cost to total ownership. People who buy used loose the initial depreciation, but can actually have higher total cost of ownership if they don't turn the vehicle as they depreciation exponentially increases as the milage increases and or have large out of warranty repairs. Paying cash is not always the best financial choice, just like financing or leasing are not always the best choice. 0% does not necessarily mean you're paying extra. Every dealer has one car on the lot each day that they need to move because their floor plan is up and they own it. Finding out what car that is, is an art. Not being picky about color or options will help you get the lowest price. Time of month and or quarter, sales person's rank in sales for that month and sales manager need to hit quota for bonus. These are just a few things that play into how well you can negotiate the deal. Buying used does not always mean you have the lowest cost of ownership. WTF.....with you cash only people. Do you really think your $48,000 cash payment, for a new car you keep 4 years is better than a person who take 0% financing, for the say new car, and pays $1000 a month for 4 years? Cars, by in large, are a HUGE but necessary waste of money. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:28:32 PM EST
[#38]
I've never heard of anyone voluntarily signing a contract to be enslaved.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:33:13 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does one with an 800+ score get this rate? My wife just 'qualified' for 7.99% with an 812 @ThatGuyTheCooler 0% financing deals are typically through the manufacturer, and it's just another round about way of offering a rebate on their end. Otherwise, you best bet is to shop around banks before going to the dealer. While a lot of dealers (the good ones) have moved on to trying to provide the best rates they can, others will still fall behind and offer whatever will give them the best money and having that bargaining chip of your own financing can help prevent that. Someone with an 812 credit rating should be able to get approved for the best rates almost anywhere, and spot checking a few credit unions that I know if you are looking at maybe 5.8-6% depending on the loan term. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:51:24 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the entire market is inflated and all dealers are marking up with little supply and the used cars are more expensive than new, yes it’s a gun to your head. Somebody has to buy a new car to buy used cars. Agree, nobody has to buy a 70k pickup or SUV. There are cheaper alternatives, but for many the cheaper are unreliable and affect their income because of the increased maintenance/repairs. Overpriced gas pigs and 72 month loans are retarded…unless you are a business flush with capital expenditure budgets, want a low APR, with a depreciation schedule in your benefit. For the common consumer, many people are way over the heads and the market will correct it when they lose their job or walk away from the loan because they are deeply underwater. All excuses. Yes used cars are expensive compared to prior but you just adjust your expectations. I have purchased 2 cars (both used) in the past year, was patient and researched and did not get hosed and spent within my predetermined budget. It's called fiscal restraint. I do all of the maintenance and most of the repairs on our vehicles, have bought fixer uppers in past because it's all I could afford, no one taught me I learned (pre youtube days), more excuses. I am 59 years old and have never had an auto loan in my life, I also have never bought myself a new car, always bought used but I agree these are weird times. Nevertheless there is zero need to buy new during normal markets if you are the frugal type like me, aka cheapass. My nephew's car got totalled around X-Mas, found a salvage titled Camry with 50k miles (salvage was due to light hit in front requiring one fender, headlight and front bumper cover with respray) and he paid $12,500 for it, should last him a decade or more. Sure it took a little more time and effort but he's got very comfortable / reliable / economical mpg wheels without having to borrow money, it can be done. Sorry but it drives me nuts to hear people complain about costs of XYZ when a bit of preparation, research, effort and reeled in realistic expectations could of avoided overpaying. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:56:34 PM EST
[#41]
Dealerships don’t do financing. Lol. They don’t. They don’t do leases either. They are only a middle man.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 5:57:24 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ThatGuyTheCooler 0% financing deals are typically through the manufacturer, and it's just another round about way of offering a rebate on their end. Otherwise, you best bet is to shop around banks before going to the dealer. While a lot of dealers (the good ones) have moved on to trying to provide the best rates they can, others will still fall behind and offer whatever will give them the best money and having that bargaining chip of your own financing can help prevent that. Someone with an 812 credit rating should be able to get approved for the best rates almost anywhere, and spot checking a few credit unions that I know if you are looking at maybe 5.8-6% depending on the loan term. Thanks for the info. We are calling around to refinance |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:28:35 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're going to quote someone, avoid the typo. Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're going to quote someone, avoid the typo. Who fucking cares? If you bothered to check, I fixed it hours ago. And your view of finances is too focused on one particular facet. Go back to your initial posts. You're advocating a system that only works if you can manage to buy vehicles when interest is low, finance them, and then hold them into a high period of appreciation of that asset. Due to inflation, the .gov then raises interest, which makes you feel like a winner on both fronts: inflation and interest. That's not a system. That's catching a transient be it by luck or by well researched information. That's market timing. No shit. THAT was the point we were discussing. THAT was what several people brought up. Sorry you weren't able to follow. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:32:50 PM EST
[#44]
If that’s slavery then I am a slave master.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:35:05 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This guy gets it. There's no way the institution of automanufactury is selling you that car financed at 0% and not making it up elsewhere. Their lie is: "the car is the same price, financed or not, so why not live the financed life." The money is costing the lender something and they're building it in somewhere. They've just penalized the cash buyer to arrive at that point. 
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:35:54 PM EST
[#46]
Quoted: I pay enough to buy a nice C8 cash every year in taxes. Fuck taxes. Quoted: road salt is just a tool to keep me enslaved. FUCK joe biden |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:37:30 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should’ve bought a van, to park by the river. Now you’re talking 100k |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:43:44 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This guy gets it. There's no way the institution of automanufactury is selling you that car financed at 0% and not making it up elsewhere. Their lie is: "the car is the same price, financed or not, so why not live the financed life." The money is costing the lender something and they're building it in somewhere. They've just penalized the cash buyer to arrive at that point. https://media.tenor.com/v7DlcxqStQgAAAAM/oh-yes-nodding.gif Which means the cash buyer loses. But boy howdy! He feels good about losing. Feels good. Makes him feel good. Because fuck math! |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:49:43 PM EST
[#49]
Debt makes you do things you don't want to do and keeps you from doing things you want to do!
Try to avoid giving the fuucking banks more they give you.003% on your savings and then they give loans with your money at 9% to folks with excellent credit ratings after making them feel like a deadbeat asking for a hand out!! Fuuck 'em all!!! |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 7:50:40 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Free money is a gift, not a loan at 0% If it is a loan, you are bound to pay back the lender. What does it cost you? Exactly how much the loan is for. If you want to be slave to a lender, you are free to do so. You're giving someone else authority to tell you what to do and the best approach is one which leaves you the most freedom to grow your wealth without someone else's direction. And you risk losing it if there is an interruption in your income, OR you have to dip into your emergency fund/savings to keep it. |
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