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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:24:45 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at these junk rifles in these ads.... http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/01/bb229ff4-1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/05/72/95/0572954eb279bbd9d2d2a2965865e2be.jpg Enfield is trash and no way you could hit a 100 yd shot. Swiss one is trash too. 1903 is trash Do you want me to keep finding ads or are you going to admit a less than 100 yd shot is pretty doable even with a cheap gun? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Try it with a twenty dollar mail order rifle in minimal condition like he did. Then get back. Look at these junk rifles in these ads.... http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/01/bb229ff4-1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/05/72/95/0572954eb279bbd9d2d2a2965865e2be.jpg Enfield is trash and no way you could hit a 100 yd shot. Swiss one is trash too. 1903 is trash Do you want me to keep finding ads or are you going to admit a less than 100 yd shot is pretty doable even with a cheap gun? Then you are saying that under the same physical and psychological conditions and same weapon, that you could have pulled off the same result that Oswald allegedly did? |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:25:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did you duplicate the stress levels that would be induced by taking the shot in broad daylight with the intended target being the leader of the free world? It's not a difficult shot when done on paper with range conditions. I think the psychological aspect of the shot is often overlooked/rarely considered. Absolutely true on the mental stress and pressure. I only simulated being amped up by having my normal three cups of coffee in the morning. 
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:26:00 AM EDT
[#3]
The conspiracy tards are out in force today.
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:26:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simple ~60 yard shot. All of the conspiracy theories including the magic bullet have been fully debunked. The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple with iron alone but two hits from there didn’t cause all that carnage. - |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:27:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This right here 5.56 to the back of the head. A secret service blunder like that would cause all the lore and mystery we've endured. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ask George Hickey, oh wait you can't. That's why the M16 was pulled from secret service use a couple days after Kennedy was killed. This right here 5.56 to the back of the head. A secret service blunder like that would cause all the lore and mystery we've endured.  Please provide any proof of this. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:29:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Fatal shot came from ground level behind him by accident. Although I do believe Oswald was there as part of a plot and not solo. The shot that blew off the side of his head did not come from behind. It threw his body violently backwards. That shot came from the front. That being said, the supposed shot from the window of the School Book Depository was doable. The distance from the window to the limo was about 82 yards. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:30:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple with iron alone but two hits from there didn’t cause all that carnage. - Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Simple ~60 yard shot. All of the conspiracy theories including the magic bullet have been fully debunked. The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple with iron alone but two hits from there didn’t cause all that carnage. - The shot that put his brain on the trunk in my opinion was a much higher pressure round than Oswald sent. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:30:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you know he was stressed? After all, the man was a nutcase on a mission. Hell, it might have been the most fun he ever had. Basing my opinion on recorded interviews, LHO does not strike me as cool and calculated. I'm not saying he wasn't the shooter, nor am I making an argument for some elaborate conspiracy. I am saying that I don't belive the "Official Warren Commission" narrative. After all, a lot of the same people involved, also pushed the Gulf of Tonkin event as a casus belli to escalate our involvement in SE Asia. I also do not believe we will ever know what actually happened. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:31:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple with iron alone but two hits from there didn’t cause all that carnage. - There are literal thousands of hours from the past weeks of Hamas shooting people with rifles and you don't believe bullets cause carnage? 
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:31:45 AM EDT
[#10]
To see the location in photos and to actually be there and see it with your own eyes are two different things. When I went through MEPS last time in Dallas I took a walk over to the location (literally across the street) and walked it all out and looked at a couple of the possibilities that have been brought up in many conspiracy theories. This was my impression…
First off it’s a ridiculously close shot. With the speed the motorcade was traveling and path of the road there was more than an ample window of opportunity to take those shots while the Presidents car would have been moving directly away from the target effectively making it as near to a stationary target as you can get without it actually stopping in the street. The window is in a near perfect location for those shots. Second, the “grassy knoll” is such a very small area that once you actually see it you’re like “how the hell could someone have been hiding here”? It’s such a small area and people are standing all around it at the time of the assassination that there is just no way to have the ability to shoot and not be immediately heard or seen. Not only that but then you’re shooting at a target moving perpendicular from you, not to mention the fact that all the people standing around would have been in the way of the shot. I mean it’s literally as small as my front yard which ain’t saying much. I often feel that the people that think it’s a hard shot to make would change their minds if they visit the location and have any knowledge of shooting at all. It really shifted my opinion on it all. From a simple standpoint of being doable or not there’s no doubt in my mind that it was quite possible for even a rather poor shot to make. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:32:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The shot that blew off the side of his head did not come from behind. It threw his body violently backwards. That shot came from the front. That being said, the supposed shot from the window of the School Book Depository was doable. The distance from the window to the limo was about 82 yards. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. Fatal shot came from ground level behind him by accident. Although I do believe Oswald was there as part of a plot and not solo. The shot that blew off the side of his head did not come from behind. It threw his body violently backwards. That shot came from the front. That being said, the supposed shot from the window of the School Book Depository was doable. The distance from the window to the limo was about 82 yards. It has been alleged that that round was a .221 Fireball. I believe that this is a serious possiblity as well. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:34:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple but two hits from there didn't cause all that carnage. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Simple ~60 yard shot. All of the conspiracy theories including the magic bullet have been fully debunked. The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple but two hits from there didn't cause all that carnage. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:35:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has been alleged that that round was a .221 Fireball. I believe that this is a serious possiblity as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This. Fatal shot came from ground level behind him by accident. Although I do believe Oswald was there as part of a plot and not solo. The shot that blew off the side of his head did not come from behind. It threw his body violently backwards. That shot came from the front. That being said, the supposed shot from the window of the School Book Depository was doable. The distance from the window to the limo was about 82 yards. It has been alleged that that round was a .221 Fireball. I believe that this is a serious possiblity as well. The autopsy photos show an entry wound in the back of the head. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:35:42 AM EDT
[#14]
I used to be a believer in the JFK conspiracy theory stuff.
Then I saw the craziness that came out after 9/11. I changed my mind about JFK. I have no problem accepting Oswald as a lone assassin. Nobody has ever proved otherwise. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:35:54 AM EDT
[#15]
It amazes me how many people on the largest gun forum do not understand external ballistics, marksmanship, or the capabilities of equipment they own.
Some of you should put down the keyboard, pick up a rifle, and head to the range more often. Stay off the bench, as well. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:36:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are an agent of communism that has spent your entire life working against the West this would be a moment of joy and not fear. Oswald wasn't a criminal he was striking a blow for the workers of the world. Fucker was probably giggling. I am of the opinion the LHO was not as committed of a communist as has been portrayed. The government lied to usthen just as much as it lies to us now. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:36:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been there, and looked out the window to the X they have painted on the street. A half ass rifle shooter could make that shot easy. Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:36:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has been alleged that that round was a .221 Fireball. I believe that this is a serious possiblity as well. Where is the discussion on that? I would love to read it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:37:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been there, and looked out the window to the X they have painted on the street. A half ass rifle shooter could make that shot easy. This. Have you actually been there Op? |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:38:56 AM EDT
[#20]
There was recently testimony from a secret service agent that placed a bullet he found at the scene on one of the gurneys and it ended up on a different one. I don't remember if it was originally on the senators and ended up on jfks or vice versa but the implication was that there would be at least another shooter.
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:40:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BS. Been recreated mnay times. My high school buddies did it with a deer stand shooting into a draw with paper targets. Rifle was an iron sighted #4 Enfield since none of us owned a Carcano.  For the record, we also duplicated the MLK shooting with the same rifle. This is the sort of thread that convinces me that a hell of a lot of GD has never touched a rifle outside a video game. I couldn’t have written this out better. Agree 100%. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:41:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To see the location in photos and to actually be there and see it with your own eyes are two different things. When I went through MEPS last time in Dallas I took a walk over to the location (literally across the street) and walked it all out and looked at a couple of the possibilities that have been brought up in many conspiracy theories. This was my impression… First off it’s a ridiculously close shot. With the speed the motorcade was traveling and path of the road there was more than an ample window of opportunity to take those shots while the Presidents car would have been moving directly away from the target effectively making it as near to a stationary target as you can get without it actually stopping in the street. The window is in a near perfect location for those shots. Second, the “grassy knoll” is such a very small area that once you actually see it you’re like “how the hell could someone have been hiding here”? It’s such a small area and people are standing all around it at the time of the assassination that there is just no way to have the ability to shoot and not be immediately heard or seen. Not only that but then you’re shooting at a target moving perpendicular from you, not to mention the fact that all the people standing around would have been in the way of the shot. I mean it’s literally as small as my front yard which ain’t saying much. I often feel that the people that think it’s a hard shot to make would change their minds if they visit the location and have any knowledge of shooting at all. It really shifted my opinion on it all. From a simple standpoint of being doable or not there’s no doubt in my mind that it was quite possible for even a rather poor shot to make. To put it into perspective it would have been possible for a top NFL quarterback to hit Kennedy in the head with a football at that distance. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:41:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Besides, who moved the route in front of Oswald? Who failed to check the area for snipers? Do not overthink this, Oswald was an intelligence operator setup as the scape goat. I always wondered why the secret service didn't check buildings with windows overlooking the route? It just seems like common sense. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:41:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been there, and looked out the window to the X they have painted on the street. A half ass rifle shooter could make that shot easy. Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. lol this dudes shooting trap with a fucking AR.  Double Trap with an AR-15 | Gould Brothers |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:41:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was recently testimony from a secret service agent that placed a bullet he found at the scene on one of the gurneys and it ended up on a different one. I don't remember if it was originally on the senators and ended up on jfks or vice versa but the implication was that there would be at least another shooter. The agent found the bullet in the back seat under where Kennedy’s wife was sitting and placed it on the metal exam table they had the President laid out on in the exam room is what I heard him say. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:43:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I did not know that Hathcock had participated in the reenactment, or that he had voiced an opinion. Neither did I |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:44:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The magic bullet has absolutely been debunked multiple times. The original analysis was flawed due to incorrect positioning of JFK and Connoley in the presidential limo. Once you take into account the jump seat and connoley being turned at the time of the shot it matches. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Simple ~60 yard shot. All of the conspiracy theories including the magic bullet have been fully debunked. The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple but two hits from there didn't cause all that carnage. The Warren Commission is the swamp . |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:45:24 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Warren Commission is the swamp . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Simple ~60 yard shot. All of the conspiracy theories including the magic bullet have been fully debunked. The Magic Bullet nonsense that the Kennedy killers put out there has never been debunked. The shots from the sixth floor are stupid simple but two hits from there didn't cause all that carnage. The Warren Commission is the swamp .  Plenty of others have debunked it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:46:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The shot that put his brain on the trunk in my opinion was a much higher pressure round than Oswald sent. Hydraulic pressure, how does it work? |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:47:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always wondered why the secret service didn't check buildings with windows overlooking the route? It just seems like common sense. Agreed. It was a massive oversight. I think some of the contributing factors were 1. The route was changed a few days before and 2. Most of their security concerns were related to protests and civil unrest on the ground, not a nutjob with a rifle in a window. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:47:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/344352/1_EiInJNFY0nvRRVoxRcaH2g_2x_jpg-3009584.JPG That's because the CIA had other assets on the ground to make sure the job was done. FOIA request for documents on Operation King Friday brought some shit to light. 
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:47:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Anyone that has shot even a little and visits that place would agree it would be a very very easy shot.
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:48:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. Just because YOU can’t do it… doesn’t mean no one else can. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:48:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone that has shot even a little and visits that place would agree it would be a very very easy shot. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:48:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then you are saying that under the same physical and psychological conditions and same weapon, that you could have pulled off the same result that Oswald allegedly did? What psychological conditions? Mentally preparation is real. The shots have been discussed here already. I have NOT been there to see if first hand. The ranges I have read about seem completely doable with a 4x scoped rifled. Fire 1 round. You have 6 seconds to fire 2 more. Braced position. If you can't hit a slow moving target at less than 100 yds, you need to practice more. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:50:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been there, and looked out the window to the X they have painted on the street. A half ass rifle shooter could make that shot easy. Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. It was what... a miss, a head shot, and upper back, hit? That's a spread of probably... 12 inches or more? At ~80 yards? He got lucky with the head shot. But that was one of three. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:50:14 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been there, and looked out the window to the X they have painted on the street. A half ass rifle shooter could make that shot easy. Shit…I’ll do you one better….my thought was….damn…I bet I could have done it with a handgun…. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:50:49 AM EDT
[#38]
Mitchell Werbell delivered a suppressed rifle to a hotel room in Dallas a few days before the assassination and he recognized 3 of 5 individuals in the room as people he knew or previously worked with including E. Howard Hunt. He told this to an investigator for the Select Committee on Assassinations in an interview at his home in Georgia.
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:51:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, but you're looking at it from a single-shot perspective. You are quantifying this by thinking, I could easily be here in this window, aim and fire one shot with a rifle at that X and get a hit at that distance. Things you aren't taking into account: - It was 3 shots in just under 6 seconds on a bolt action rifle. Two have to be hits. - Target was moving. Albeit slowly, it was moving. - Stress (time, cover, ensuring you're not seen/stopped by others in the building, etc) - Tree and foliage in the way (at the time). - Crappy rifle and crappy ammo. I'm not saying that Oswald didn't do it - just pointing out the absurdity of simply going to Dealey Plaza, into the TSBD and looking out the window thinking, "wow - what an easy shot". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been there, and looked out the window to the X they have painted on the street. A half ass rifle shooter could make that shot easy. Things you aren't taking into account: - It was 3 shots in just under 6 seconds on a bolt action rifle. Two have to be hits. - Target was moving. Albeit slowly, it was moving. - Stress (time, cover, ensuring you're not seen/stopped by others in the building, etc) - Tree and foliage in the way (at the time). - Crappy rifle and crappy ammo. I'm not saying that Oswald didn't do it - just pointing out the absurdity of simply going to Dealey Plaza, into the TSBD and looking out the window thinking, "wow - what an easy shot". This theory is right up there with “Fire can’t melt steel”. -or- Missiles hit the Pentagon! One has to assume that he started with a loaded rifle, right? The first shot starts the timer, so it’s 2 shots in 6 seconds? This is a gun forum. It wasn’t a difficult shot. The assassination probably Was a conspiracy, but I don’t understand why people latch onto the most Unlikely scenarios. It’s really bizarre. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:51:59 AM EDT
[#40]
CBS recreated this in 1967 and an old man was able to get three head shots on 5.2 seconds. What's the issue here?
 "A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report" (1967) Rifle Tests Preview |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:52:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, that one shot, in a vacuum, on a stationary target. But it wasn't one shot, it was three shots. It wasn't in a vacuum, it was on a president. And, he wasn't stationary. I've never believed in the lone gunman theory and probably never will. That’s all a load of horse shit. “One shot in a vacuum” lol. Go see it for yourself. It’s nothing too difficult to pull off. Plus the speed of the vehicle and angle the road travels would make the target move so slow that it being a moving target is almost a non issue. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:53:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Have we been able to even confirm which of those two sources supposedly cited Hathcock?
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:54:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Three shots in 6 seconds on a moving target With a WWII Carcano? You must be very good. Its been done multiple times. Tim Kennedy did it on a tv show 3 out of 5 tries. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:54:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo... only a lefty would even attempt firing on a moving target moving to the right. Oswald was right handed. The FBI commented that the rifle was zeroed for a left handed shooter... and zeroed by shimming the scope. We'll never know the truth about the most infamous murder in history. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: About like Jan. 6th being an insurrection… Bingo... only a lefty would even attempt firing on a moving target moving to the right. Oswald was right handed. The FBI commented that the rifle was zeroed for a left handed shooter... and zeroed by shimming the scope. We'll never know the truth about the most infamous murder in history. Left Eye Dominant. 
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:56:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have we been able to even confirm which of those two sources supposedly cited Hathcock? I had never heard of that before either. Back in the day I heard that the Warren Commission had used two if not more rifle experts in order to test the rifle and approximately the same conditions out. Maybe Hathcock was one of those. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:57:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We can watch live footage of our president being gruesomely murdered over and over again but we can't see footage of Osama getting allegedly killed?! I was 10 years old at the time and in school when Kennedy was shot. The nuns told us about it, and I saw it on TV later that day, so not "live". But I was watching TV when Ruby shot Oswald, in real time. I don't recall ever seeing another "live" murder since. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:58:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holee shit brosefs! If gov. Ventura says he couldn't make the shots - well, he couldn't make those shots. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2048/Screenshot_20231030_100620_Chrome-3009618.jpg He also couldn’t hit a seven foot tall alien with a fucking mini-gun! |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:58:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CBS recreated this in 1967 and an old man was able to get three head shots on 5.2 seconds. What's the issue here? The issue is the absolute impossibility that one pristine bullet caused all that carnage while defying the laws of physics a couple three times. The Swamp killed Kennedy because he was not going to cave to the military industrial complex . |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:58:33 AM EDT
[#49]
I believe Oswald used the iron sights....
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:58:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: ...and he says most Europeans are of the same opinion, is that Americans are nuts or thinking a lone, crazed gunman could have pulled off the shots that happened in Dealy Plaza, Dallas, on November 22, 1963. European here, never heard another european say that. Pretty sure most believe that it was possible, just like they believed covid was dangerous, osama did 9/11 and so on... |
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