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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:38:27 PM EDT
[#1]
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And this is actually reflected in history. I read an account by a Muslim living in a Crusader state who said that Muslims living under Christian rule had better lives and more rights than Muslims living under Muslim rule. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can Bible-believing Christians peacefully live as neighbors to Muslims? Can Koran-believing Muslims peacefully live alongside Christians? This conflict has been around for the past 1400 years. It will continue into the future, war without end, unless one side emerges ultimately victorious. The answer is yes. A person who truly believes in the bible believes in the law of love. People who distort the word are the people who called for the crusades and such. Hence they are not bible believing Christians. The bible says it is the Lords job to judge, and if any one of us judges( worstboro Baptist Church) then he will judge them himself. The only war I believe in is one of protecting those who cannot protect themselves. This has nothing to do with religion. I have no problem laying down my life for a friend. Or for a stranger even that cannot stand on their own. That is love. Nothing wrong with the bible, its people you have to worry about. The Koran on the other hand, well that's a different story.... And this is actually reflected in history. I read an account by a Muslim living in a Crusader state who said that Muslims living under Christian rule had better lives and more rights than Muslims living under Muslim rule. And Hungarian Calvinists and Anabaptists were better off under Ottoman Turks than Austrian Catholics. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:40:48 PM EDT
[#2]
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And Hungarian Calvinists and Anabaptists were better off under Ottoman Turks than Austrian Catholics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can Bible-believing Christians peacefully live as neighbors to Muslims? Can Koran-believing Muslims peacefully live alongside Christians? This conflict has been around for the past 1400 years. It will continue into the future, war without end, unless one side emerges ultimately victorious. The answer is yes. A person who truly believes in the bible believes in the law of love. People who distort the word are the people who called for the crusades and such. Hence they are not bible believing Christians. The bible says it is the Lords job to judge, and if any one of us judges( worstboro Baptist Church) then he will judge them himself. The only war I believe in is one of protecting those who cannot protect themselves. This has nothing to do with religion. I have no problem laying down my life for a friend. Or for a stranger even that cannot stand on their own. That is love. Nothing wrong with the bible, its people you have to worry about. The Koran on the other hand, well that's a different story.... And this is actually reflected in history. I read an account by a Muslim living in a Crusader state who said that Muslims living under Christian rule had better lives and more rights than Muslims living under Muslim rule. And Hungarian Calvinists and Anabaptists were better off under Ottoman Turks than Austrian Catholics. You don't have to call me "Father," I'm an Anabaptist. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:41:53 PM EDT
[#3]
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Allow me to tell you exactly how the Crusades worked. Political leaders, some advertising themselves as religious leaders, desired to achieve various worldly ends which hinged on defeating foreign armies. Therefore, they assembled their own armies and went to war, selling it all by saying that it was the will of Jesus Christ. If I wanted to, I could assemble a bunch of fat, hairy, men, dress them in leather panties and fishnets, and tell them to go to the park and tango with each other all week long. I could do this in the name of RABIDFOX50, if I thought it would motivate fat men to participate, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with your will. Or perhaps I'm making assumptions...   Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I don't see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. Crusades, how did they work?
Allow me to tell you exactly how the Crusades worked. Political leaders, some advertising themselves as religious leaders, desired to achieve various worldly ends which hinged on defeating foreign armies. Therefore, they assembled their own armies and went to war, selling it all by saying that it was the will of Jesus Christ. If I wanted to, I could assemble a bunch of fat, hairy, men, dress them in leather panties and fishnets, and tell them to go to the park and tango with each other all week long. I could do this in the name of RABIDFOX50, if I thought it would motivate fat men to participate, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with your will. Or perhaps I'm making assumptions... It's a little less cut and dry than that. The Muslims were invading and still openly proclaiming convert by the sword (they still do but generally more subtly), Christianity outside of labor was people's lives. A foreign invader who wanted to take your religion was a legit reason to fight over. (I'm referring to France, Spain, The Balkans, more than the Levant). |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:46:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Fuck it. Kill everyone who isn't White, Christian, straight, or American.
That'll teach them. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:53:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Ah the Crusades..... which particular crusade are we going to model this after, quite a few were fucking disasters? Are we going to travel over there beat the shit out of the Muslims and then get in a huge fight over which of us is going to be in charge? We all know Aimless will want to be king and that's not going to work with the warm weather and all, penguins get irritable when its hot, so maybe we should just rethink this whole crusade thing.
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:54:52 PM EDT
[#6]
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The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. Really. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you need to read up on the Crusades. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. Really. I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:56:06 PM EDT
[#7]
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I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you need to read up on the Crusades. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. Really. I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. Now it's Istanbul. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:58:26 PM EDT
[#8]
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It's a little less cut and dry than that. The Muslims were invading and still openly proclaiming convert by the sword (they still do but generally more subtly), Christianity outside of labor was people's lives. A foreign invader who wanted to take your religion was a legit reason to fight over. (I'm referring to France, Spain, The Balkans, more than the Levant). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I don't see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. Crusades, how did they work?
Allow me to tell you exactly how the Crusades worked. Political leaders, some advertising themselves as religious leaders, desired to achieve various worldly ends which hinged on defeating foreign armies. Therefore, they assembled their own armies and went to war, selling it all by saying that it was the will of Jesus Christ. If I wanted to, I could assemble a bunch of fat, hairy, men, dress them in leather panties and fishnets, and tell them to go to the park and tango with each other all week long. I could do this in the name of RABIDFOX50, if I thought it would motivate fat men to participate, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with your will. Or perhaps I'm making assumptions... It's a little less cut and dry than that. The Muslims were invading and still openly proclaiming convert by the sword (they still do but generally more subtly), Christianity outside of labor was people's lives. A foreign invader who wanted to take your religion was a legit reason to fight over. (I'm referring to France, Spain, The Balkans, more than the Levant). It really is pretty cut and dried, actually. As I said in my previous post, the Bible gives the stories of plenty of non-Christians persecuted Christians, even to death, and in no case did the Christians fight back. The one exception was, of course, Peter when he cut the ear off of Malchus, but Jesus promptly told Peter to put away the sword, then restored Malcus' ear. The apostles, when they were jailed and beaten (twice) in Jerusalem, never fought back. Stephen, when he was put on trial by the Jews did not even offer a defense, but instead preached the gospel to the priests who tried him. When they executed him by stoning, Stephen did not fight back, but instead prayed that God would not hold his death against his killers. King Herod Agrippa beheaded the apostle, James, and arrested the apostle, Peter, but neither fought back. Paul and Silas were stripped, beaten, thrown in stocks, and thrown into the innermost cell in the Philippian jail, but they did not fight back. In fact, when the opportunity came for them to flee, they did not--they stayed in their cells until the jailer released them. Then, they preached the gospel to the jailer. Paul, when he was stoned at Lystra and left for dead, did not fight back. In fact, he continued preaching in the area and eventually returned to Lystra to check back in on the church there. Paul, when imprisoned by the Romans (which started out as a protective measure) did not fight back. Instead, he demanded to be tried by Caesar and took the opportunity to preach the gospel to lots of people between Judea and Rome, starting with the Jewish religious leaders and continuing with King Agrippa and Governor Porcius Festus (which is an awesome name) and continuing on from there. Nowhere do we see Christians commanded to defend territory nor are we given an example of Christians engaging in warfare to ensure their survival. Christianity is all about putting off the worldly and putting on the spiritual, and what is war if not a worldly endeavor? |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:03:27 PM EDT
[#9]
RANT ON
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Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. God help me, but this shit really pisses me off! Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. Step by step. "Jesus forbade violence" Bullshit! When commissioning his apostles to go out and spread the good word he told them that if they didn't have a sword to sell their cloak and buy one. What was a cloak in that time? It was your protection against wind and rain, it kept you warm at night and provided shade in the daytime. It was a piece of survival equipment. Jesus told them if don't have the premier assault weapon of the time (a sword) sell your most significant personal comfort item and buy one. Do you imagine this arming up was meant for show? Do you think he meant wave around and scary sharp stabby thing to ward off people intent on murder? Hell no! He knew the apostles would piss the powers that were off to the max and that their lives would be in danger. Despite some churches reverence for martyrs (including my own Catholic church), Jesus knew corpses would be a pretty poor vehicle for spreading his word so he told the apostles to prepare to defend their lives. "... it's better to turn the cheek" Yep, for the sake of peace, forgive minor hurts and insults, not attempts on your life. What Jesus most certainly did not say was to offer your enemies your throat and hand them a knife. This mealy mouthed, lie down and die, corruption of Christianity only gives aid and comfort to ones that do want to put a knife to our throat. And the people that promote it are just useful idiots. 
RANT OFF We now return you to your in-progress thread. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:07:34 PM EDT
[#10]
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RANT ON ... Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
RANT ON Quoted:
Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. ... Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. See the post immediately above yours. If you would like, I will cite the exact passages so you can see for yourself if I am misrepresenting the narrative. Yes, Jesus did tell the disciples to buy a sword, but would you please point me to the passage where Jesus tells them, or anyone else, to use deadly force (or any force for that matter) to defend life, limb, or property ETA or anything else? The only example I can find of one of Jesus' disciples using a sword is that of Peter in the garden, and Jesus rebuked him for it. Quoted:
Such language for a "christian" lol. And this. If you like, I can accurately quote Ephesians 4:29. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:07:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RANT ON God help me, but this shit really pisses me off! Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. Step by step. "Jesus forbade violence" Bullshit! When commissioning his apostles to go out and spread the good word he told them that if they didn't have a sword to sell their cloak and buy one. What was a cloak in that time? It was your protection against wind and rain, it kept you warm at night and provided shade in the daytime. It was a piece of survival equipment. Jesus told them if don't have the premier assault weapon of the time (a sword) sell your most significant personal comfort item and buy one. Do you imagine this arming up was meant for show? Do you think he meant wave around and scary sharp stabby thing to ward off people intent on murder? Hell no! He knew the apostles would piss the powers that were off to the max and that their lives would be in danger. Despite some churches reverence for martyrs (including my own Catholic church), Jesus knew corpses would be a pretty poor vehicle for spreading his word so he told the apostles to prepare to defend their lives. "... it's better to turn the cheek" Yep, for the sake of peace, forgive minor hurts and insults, not attempts on your life. What Jesus most certainly did not say was to offer your enemies your throat and hand them a knife. This mealy mouthed, lie down and die, corruption of Christianity only gives aid and comfort to ones that do want to put a knife to our throat. And the people that promote it are just useful idiots. RANT OFF We now return you to your in-progress thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: RANT ON Quoted: Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. God help me, but this shit really pisses me off! Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. Step by step. "Jesus forbade violence" Bullshit! When commissioning his apostles to go out and spread the good word he told them that if they didn't have a sword to sell their cloak and buy one. What was a cloak in that time? It was your protection against wind and rain, it kept you warm at night and provided shade in the daytime. It was a piece of survival equipment. Jesus told them if don't have the premier assault weapon of the time (a sword) sell your most significant personal comfort item and buy one. Do you imagine this arming up was meant for show? Do you think he meant wave around and scary sharp stabby thing to ward off people intent on murder? Hell no! He knew the apostles would piss the powers that were off to the max and that their lives would be in danger. Despite some churches reverence for martyrs (including my own Catholic church), Jesus knew corpses would be a pretty poor vehicle for spreading his word so he told the apostles to prepare to defend their lives. "... it's better to turn the cheek" Yep, for the sake of peace, forgive minor hurts and insults, not attempts on your life. What Jesus most certainly did not say was to offer your enemies your throat and hand them a knife. This mealy mouthed, lie down and die, corruption of Christianity only gives aid and comfort to ones that do want to put a knife to our throat. And the people that promote it are just useful idiots. RANT OFF We now return you to your in-progress thread. Such language for a "christian" lol. Everyone interprets it their way. Some interpret it for pacifism, others for war. I still see no references to Christians fighting back under Nero |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:10:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, Jesus did tell the disciples to buy a sword, but would you please point me to the passage where Jesus tells them, or anyone else, to use deadly force (or any force for that matter) to defend life, limb, or property ETA or anything else? The only example I can find of one of Jesus' disciples using a sword is that of Peter in the garden, and Jesus rebuked him for it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, Jesus did tell the disciples to buy a sword, but would you please point me to the passage where Jesus tells them, or anyone else, to use deadly force (or any force for that matter) to defend life, limb, or property ETA or anything else? The only example I can find of one of Jesus' disciples using a sword is that of Peter in the garden, and Jesus rebuked him for it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:11:00 PM EDT
[#13]
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Remember the Muslim guy on star trek? Hilarious |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:13:35 PM EDT
[#14]
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See the post immediately above yours. If you would like, I will cite the exact passages so you can see for yourself if I am misrepresenting the narrative. Yes, Jesus did tell the disciples to buy a sword, but would you please point me to the passage where Jesus tells them, or anyone else, to use deadly force (or any force for that matter) to defend life, limb, or property ETA or anything else? The only example I can find of one of Jesus' disciples using a sword is that of Peter in the garden, and Jesus rebuked him for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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RANT ON Quoted:
Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. ... Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. See the post immediately above yours. If you would like, I will cite the exact passages so you can see for yourself if I am misrepresenting the narrative. Yes, Jesus did tell the disciples to buy a sword, but would you please point me to the passage where Jesus tells them, or anyone else, to use deadly force (or any force for that matter) to defend life, limb, or property ETA or anything else? The only example I can find of one of Jesus' disciples using a sword is that of Peter in the garden, and Jesus rebuked him for it. Yep Jesus "rebuked him for it." Jesus knew he must be the sacrifice and no one could stop it. So tell me, just what the newly purchased sword for? |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:14:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember the Muslim guy on star trek?  |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:16:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Christians vs. Islam - Time for new crusades? See my avatar 
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:19:44 PM EDT
[#17]
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As someone who truly understands that all on this earth are literally children of God ........' And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As someone who truly understands that all on this earth are literally children of God ........' And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:24:43 PM EDT
[#19]
it might come to that.
lots of motherfuckers will sign up. we shall see. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:25:31 PM EDT
[#20]
No. The modern Western world mentality and individual is too spineless to do anything to stop the tidal wave of Islam that is sweeping all countries including this one.
Media won't tell the stories, and will hush hush the violence of Islam (CIA warned of this in the 80's) This was no surprise to anyone who lived in, visited, or had relationships with peoples from Iran. Christians following the teachings of Christ will turn the other cheek and let their schools, children, and cities kneel to Islam in the next 100 years. Atheists will pat themselves on the back for being too superior to involve themselves in a foolish Holy War or religious conflict or anti-Jihad and will end up some of the first executed under Sharia Law unless they become Martyrs and die with courage for their beliefs. The truth is, Islam is taking over Europe. The USA and Mexico are next. The eagle is sleeping while the talking heads are nay-saying the warnings, and this is no longer the land of the brave where the majority will pick up the axe to lop off the head of the snake. Either A: Your great grandchildren will be kneeling before Allah in 100 years, or B: They will be speaking Chinese and making Bobble-head dolls of him. 
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:27:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep Jesus "rebuked him for it." Jesus knew he must be the sacrifice and no one could stop it. So tell me, just what the newly purchased sword for? |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:27:32 PM EDT
[#22]
The muzzies need to push more if they want a crusades
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:30:53 PM EDT
[#23]
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Should we stand by and watch while Christians are slaughtered ?? I say we need another crusade. Christians understand that this isn't home. While we have work to do, we're just passing through. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:32:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:does GD think this world is heading for a modern day crusade of basically non-muslim vs. muslim peoples?' I don't see how this won't happen. The muslim radicals are attacking in virtually every direction, on all continents exept Antarctica, against all of the world's major religions. Containment is required. They must be removed from recently gained territories. Their dangerous, backward ideology must be kept at Stone Age lethality. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:33:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Islam is like the school bully. There's going to be a fight sooner or later.
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:35:11 PM EDT
[#26]
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Christians following the teachings of Christ will turn the other cheek and let their schools, children, and cities kneel to Islam in the next 100 years. That long? Then I've got nothing to worry about, as I'll be long dead. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:36:15 PM EDT
[#27]
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Something about being numbered with the transgressors? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep Jesus "rebuked him for it." Jesus knew he must be the sacrifice and no one could stop it. So tell me, just what the newly purchased sword for? OK you lost me. Once again for the slow of thinking; What was the newly purchased sword for? More smaller words please. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:36:49 PM EDT
[#28]
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Christians understand that this isn't home. While we have work to do, we're just passing through. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Should we stand by and watch while Christians are slaughtered ?? I say we need another crusade. Christians understand that this isn't home. While we have work to do, we're just passing through. I agree. Its fine if a christian is killed. For us to die is gain. However if you have a radical group that wants to nuke an entire city of unbelievers I believe it is our duty to go to war to stop it. Those people need the ability to make the decison. Can't stand by and watch people without faith die. Kill 10000 to save 15000.sure. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:39:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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Yep Jesus "rebuked him for it." Jesus knew he must be the sacrifice and no one could stop it. So tell me, just what the newly purchased sword for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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RANT ON Quoted:
Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. ... Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. See the post immediately above yours. If you would like, I will cite the exact passages so you can see for yourself if I am misrepresenting the narrative. Yes, Jesus did tell the disciples to buy a sword, but would you please point me to the passage where Jesus tells them, or anyone else, to use deadly force (or any force for that matter) to defend life, limb, or property ETA or anything else? The only example I can find of one of Jesus' disciples using a sword is that of Peter in the garden, and Jesus rebuked him for it. Yep Jesus "rebuked him for it." Jesus knew he must be the sacrifice and no one could stop it. So tell me, just what the newly purchased sword for? I'd be glad to. The passage is telling us about what happened between Jesus' last Passover meal and His trip to the Garden of Gethsemane on the night on which He was arrested. Let's go ahead and read the passage right now, and we'll make sure not to omit anything that gives us a better picture of what's going on: Luke 22:35-38
And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” First of all two swords among 12 (well, at that point, 11) apostles was, according to Jesus, enough, so we know that Jesus was not commanding that all of them be armed. Second, and in answer to your question, Jesus quite clearly explains exactly why He told them to buy the swords. He said to do so because prophecy concerning Him must be fulfilled. What was that prophecy? The prophecy was that Jesus might be numbered with transgressors, or sinners. How was this to be fulfilled? How did Jesus tell His apostles to ensure that He was, in fact, numbered with sinful men? He told them to buy a sword. So there you go. Jesus told the apostles to buy swords so, by carrying them, the apostles would be transgressors. As you know, Peter, who was one of the ones carrying the sword, would use that sword to cut off Malchus' ear, and Jesus would rebuke him as a transgressor. Thus, Peter used the sword to transgress the teaching of Jesus--he used it to exact violence on Jesus' persecutor. Now that I've answered you, will you do me the same courtesy and teach me where Jesus told the apostles to purchase a sword in order to slay their persecutors, or show me anywhere that a Christian is instructed to kill or injure or even fight in order to ensure his own safety? I've given example after example after example that demonstrates exactly the opposite, but if I'm wrong about what the New Testament teaches Christians, I sure would like to correct myself. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:46:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Awesome counter argument to the proposition that "the Right is rational and intelligent", OP.
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:52:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As someone who truly understands that all on this earth are literally children of God ........' And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Hard to fault a man who loves guns and Jesus. 
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:52:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[div style='text-indent: 20px;']Such language for a "christian" lol. Everyone interprets it their way. Some interpret it for pacifism, others for war. I still see no references to Christians fighting back under Nero Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
RANT ON Quoted:
Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. God help me, but this shit really pisses me off! Please, please, please study the bible if you are going to quote paraphrase misquote it. Step by step. "Jesus forbade violence" Bullshit! When commissioning his apostles to go out and spread the good word he told them that if they didn't have a sword to sell their cloak and buy one. What was a cloak in that time? It was your protection against wind and rain, it kept you warm at night and provided shade in the daytime. It was a piece of survival equipment. Jesus told them if don't have the premier assault weapon of the time (a sword) sell your most significant personal comfort item and buy one. Do you imagine this arming up was meant for show? Do you think he meant wave around and scary sharp stabby thing to ward off people intent on murder? Hell no! He knew the apostles would piss the powers that were off to the max and that their lives would be in danger. Despite some churches reverence for martyrs (including my own Catholic church), Jesus knew corpses would be a pretty poor vehicle for spreading his word so he told the apostles to prepare to defend their lives. "... it's better to turn the cheek" Yep, for the sake of peace, forgive minor hurts and insults, not attempts on your life. What Jesus most certainly did not say was to offer your enemies your throat and hand them a knife. This mealy mouthed, lie down and die, corruption of Christianity only gives aid and comfort to ones that do want to put a knife to our throat. And the people that promote it are just useful idiots.
RANT OFF We now return you to your in-progress thread. Who the hell said I was a Christian?! I'm a practicing Catholic. Why practicing? Because we keep trying to get it right. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:52:56 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm still pissed I can't bring my horse
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:54:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who the hell said I was a Christian?! I'm a practicing Catholic. Why practicing? Because we keep trying to get it right. For posterity, and for future use. ETA: What, in your estimation, is the difference between a Christian and a Catholic? |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:57:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just throw all the religious people together and let them duke it out. The world would be a much better place without them.  |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:58:11 PM EDT
[#36]
What in the world?
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Posted: 12/16/2014 4:58:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you need to read up on the Crusades. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. Really. I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. The problem is that in this politically correct time it is difficult to find relatively unbiased accounts. So many seem to be (The evil, white, Christian Europeans went and beat up on the peace-loving Muslims because they wanted land that had always belonged to the Muslims." That's actually what a lot of people believe these days. The basic facts are that the Jihad had attacked, invaded, slaughtered, and subjugated into Europe for several centuries before the first Crusade (aka: Counterjihad), and with Islam being a 7th century invention, the lands couldn't have "always" been Muslim-owned. Actually, the region was largely Jewish and Christian before the slaughtering hordes came to spread Islam. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:06:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Too many quotes so this is cut up
By Mastodon (I think) "Now that I've answered you, will you do me the same courtesy and teach me where Jesus told the apostles to purchase a sword in order to slay their persecutors, or show me anywhere that a Christian is instructed to kill or injure or even fight in order to ensure his own safety? I've given example after example after example that demonstrates exactly the opposite, but if I'm wrong about what the New Testament teaches Christians, I sure would like to correct myself." My reply below It seems I'm fighting above my religious scholar weight class. I'm a simple man of simple concepts. It seems to me that being numbered among the transgressors is to fulfill a prophesy about how Jesus would be perceived by people not God. You are telling me Jesus is telling his followers to sin, to become transgressors? That's a head scratcher for me. You believe what you wish. I don't choose to believe God wants us dead to provide good examples. He wants us alive for the time he alots each of us and for us to be good living examples of his word in that time. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:15:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now that I've answered you, will you do me the same courtesy and teach me where Jesus told the apostles to purchase a sword in order to slay their persecutors, or show me anywhere that a Christian is instructed to kill or injure or even fight in order to ensure his own safety? I've given example after example after example that demonstrates exactly the opposite, but if I'm wrong about what the New Testament teaches Christians, I sure would like to correct myself. It seems I'm fighting above my religious scholar weight class. I'm a simple man of simple concepts. It seems to me that being numbered among the transgressors is to fulfill a prophesy about how Jesus would be perceived by people not God. You are telling me Jesus is telling his followers to sin, to become transgressors? That's a head scratcher for me. You believe what you wish. I don't choose to believe God wants us dead to provide good examples. He wants us alive for the time he alots each of us and for us to be good living examples of his word in that time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now that I've answered you, will you do me the same courtesy and teach me where Jesus told the apostles to purchase a sword in order to slay their persecutors, or show me anywhere that a Christian is instructed to kill or injure or even fight in order to ensure his own safety? I've given example after example after example that demonstrates exactly the opposite, but if I'm wrong about what the New Testament teaches Christians, I sure would like to correct myself. It seems I'm fighting above my religious scholar weight class. I'm a simple man of simple concepts. It seems to me that being numbered among the transgressors is to fulfill a prophesy about how Jesus would be perceived by people not God. You are telling me Jesus is telling his followers to sin, to become transgressors? That's a head scratcher for me. You believe what you wish. I don't choose to believe God wants us dead to provide good examples. He wants us alive for the time he alots each of us and for us to be good living examples of his word in that time. Couple of things. Why in the world, if you are at all interested in following what is taught in the Bible, would you choose to believe something that the Bible never teaches? Second, you still haven't shown me where I can learn from the Bible that I am to arm myself for the purpose of engaging in conflict with those who might persecute me. The Bible isn't hard to read, but it can certainly be hard to reconcile with certain doctrines ascribed to it by the wisdom of men. Finally, the prophecy fulfilled in the passage you mentioned is from Isaiah: Isaiah 53:12
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors. Jesus interceded for the transgressors, i.e., you and me and Peter and everyone else. The point of buying the sword was not commanding Peter to sin, but allowing Peter to sin, which was doing what came naturally by attempting to prevent Jesus' arrest through violence using a sword. Same would apply to Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus allowed, and in fact commanded, to go and carry out the betrayal. It was another case of Jesus ensuring that all the prophecy concerning Him was fulfilled. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:19:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is that in this politically correct time it is difficult to find relatively unbiased accounts. So many seem to be (The evil, white, Christian Europeans went and beat up on the peace-loving Muslims because they wanted land that had always belonged to the Muslims." That's actually what a lot of people believe these days. The basic facts are that the Jihad had attacked, invaded, slaughtered, and subjugated into Europe for several centuries before the first Crusade (aka: Counterjihad), and with Islam being a 7th century invention, the lands couldn't have "always" been Muslim-owned. Actually, the region was largely Jewish and Christian before the slaughtering hordes came to spread Islam. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you need to read up on the Crusades. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. Really. I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. The problem is that in this politically correct time it is difficult to find relatively unbiased accounts. So many seem to be (The evil, white, Christian Europeans went and beat up on the peace-loving Muslims because they wanted land that had always belonged to the Muslims." That's actually what a lot of people believe these days. The basic facts are that the Jihad had attacked, invaded, slaughtered, and subjugated into Europe for several centuries before the first Crusade (aka: Counterjihad), and with Islam being a 7th century invention, the lands couldn't have "always" been Muslim-owned. Actually, the region was largely Jewish and Christian before the slaughtering hordes came to spread Islam. I never argued differently. The Crusades were counterproductive though. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:21:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Allow me to tell you exactly how the Crusades worked. Political leaders, some advertising themselves as religious leaders, desired to achieve various worldly ends which hinged on defeating foreign armies. Therefore, they assembled their own armies and went to war, selling it all by saying that it was the will of Jesus Christ. If I wanted to, I could assemble a bunch of fat, hairy, men, dress them in leather panties and fishnets, and tell them to go to the park and tango with each other all week long. I could do this in the name of RABIDFOX50, if I thought it would motivate fat men to participate, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with your will. Or perhaps I'm making assumptions... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I dont see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. Crusades, how did they work?
Allow me to tell you exactly how the Crusades worked. Political leaders, some advertising themselves as religious leaders, desired to achieve various worldly ends which hinged on defeating foreign armies. Therefore, they assembled their own armies and went to war, selling it all by saying that it was the will of Jesus Christ. If I wanted to, I could assemble a bunch of fat, hairy, men, dress them in leather panties and fishnets, and tell them to go to the park and tango with each other all week long. I could do this in the name of RABIDFOX50, if I thought it would motivate fat men to participate, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with your will. Or perhaps I'm making assumptions... I don't look good in fishnets.
.... but I do agree with the other part of your post. 
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:21:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As someone who truly understands that all on this earth are literally children of God ........' And there's where you go wrong. All people are definitely NOT "children of God". Jesus was very clear about it. John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. So who was Jesus talking to in that passage? There are some Jews who are trying to trip him up in his words...to which he schools them, then accuses them of being of the devil, saying the devil is their father because they cannot hear his (Jesus') word. Pauls mentions that we're all offspring of God (Acts 17:29) for what its worth. Every person born into this world is a spirit son or daughter of God, literally. In the Bible they are also referred to being children of God spiritually through faith (once they become a believer). So there's a couple references to the truth that we're children of God. Doesn't mean we'll all behave, it just means we didn't go with satan and the third of the host of heaven. The real Christian knows God values every soul on this earth, and every life is precious. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:25:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see how this won't happen. The muslim radicals are attacking in virtually every direction, on all continents exept Antarctica, against all of the world's major religions. Containment is required. They must be removed from recently gained territories. Their dangerous, backward ideology must be kept at Stone Age lethality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:does GD think this world is heading for a modern day crusade of basically non-muslim vs. muslim peoples?' I don't see how this won't happen. The muslim radicals are attacking in virtually every direction, on all continents exept Antarctica, against all of the world's major religions. Containment is required. They must be removed from recently gained territories. Their dangerous, backward ideology must be kept at Stone Age lethality. Amazing..someone with reading comprehension skills! You and a rare few others who answered this simple, relevant question can now know that you won the whole Interwebz! The others, who eat their young, fap to Ron Paul gifs, and drag their knuckles can continue doing their best in this thread to show their brainzes. Friggen moran godless heathen! |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:29:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Why isn't this a poll?
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:36:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember the Muslim guy on star trek? |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:38:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It really is pretty cut and dried, actually. As I said in my previous post, the Bible gives the stories of plenty of non-Christians persecuted Christians, even to death, and in no case did the Christians fight back. The one exception was, of course, Peter when he cut the ear off of Malchus, but Jesus promptly told Peter to put away the sword, then restored Malcus' ear. The apostles, when they were jailed and beaten (twice) in Jerusalem, never fought back. Stephen, when he was put on trial by the Jews did not even offer a defense, but instead preached the gospel to the priests who tried him. When they executed him by stoning, Stephen did not fight back, but instead prayed that God would not hold his death against his killers. King Herod Agrippa beheaded the apostle, James, and arrested the apostle, Peter, but neither fought back. Paul and Silas were stripped, beaten, thrown in stocks, and thrown into the innermost cell in the Philippian jail, but they did not fight back. In fact, when the opportunity came for them to flee, they did not--they stayed in their cells until the jailer released them. Then, they preached the gospel to the jailer. Paul, when he was stoned at Lystra and left for dead, did not fight back. In fact, he continued preaching in the area and eventually returned to Lystra to check back in on the church there. Paul, when imprisoned by the Romans (which started out as a protective measure) did not fight back. Instead, he demanded to be tried by Caesar and took the opportunity to preach the gospel to lots of people between Judea and Rome, starting with the Jewish religious leaders and continuing with King Agrippa and Governor Porcius Festus (which is an awesome name) and continuing on from there. Nowhere do we see Christians commanded to defend territory nor are we given an example of Christians engaging in warfare to ensure their survival. Christianity is all about putting off the worldly and putting on the spiritual, and what is war if not a worldly endeavor? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Seeing as how Jesus forbade violence and said its better to turn the cheek, I don't see how one could justify a war in the name of Jesus. Crusades, how did they work?
Allow me to tell you exactly how the Crusades worked. Political leaders, some advertising themselves as religious leaders, desired to achieve various worldly ends which hinged on defeating foreign armies. Therefore, they assembled their own armies and went to war, selling it all by saying that it was the will of Jesus Christ. If I wanted to, I could assemble a bunch of fat, hairy, men, dress them in leather panties and fishnets, and tell them to go to the park and tango with each other all week long. I could do this in the name of RABIDFOX50, if I thought it would motivate fat men to participate, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with your will. Or perhaps I'm making assumptions... It's a little less cut and dry than that. The Muslims were invading and still openly proclaiming convert by the sword (they still do but generally more subtly), Christianity outside of labor was people's lives. A foreign invader who wanted to take your religion was a legit reason to fight over. (I'm referring to France, Spain, The Balkans, more than the Levant). It really is pretty cut and dried, actually. As I said in my previous post, the Bible gives the stories of plenty of non-Christians persecuted Christians, even to death, and in no case did the Christians fight back. The one exception was, of course, Peter when he cut the ear off of Malchus, but Jesus promptly told Peter to put away the sword, then restored Malcus' ear. The apostles, when they were jailed and beaten (twice) in Jerusalem, never fought back. Stephen, when he was put on trial by the Jews did not even offer a defense, but instead preached the gospel to the priests who tried him. When they executed him by stoning, Stephen did not fight back, but instead prayed that God would not hold his death against his killers. King Herod Agrippa beheaded the apostle, James, and arrested the apostle, Peter, but neither fought back. Paul and Silas were stripped, beaten, thrown in stocks, and thrown into the innermost cell in the Philippian jail, but they did not fight back. In fact, when the opportunity came for them to flee, they did not--they stayed in their cells until the jailer released them. Then, they preached the gospel to the jailer. Paul, when he was stoned at Lystra and left for dead, did not fight back. In fact, he continued preaching in the area and eventually returned to Lystra to check back in on the church there. Paul, when imprisoned by the Romans (which started out as a protective measure) did not fight back. Instead, he demanded to be tried by Caesar and took the opportunity to preach the gospel to lots of people between Judea and Rome, starting with the Jewish religious leaders and continuing with King Agrippa and Governor Porcius Festus (which is an awesome name) and continuing on from there. Nowhere do we see Christians commanded to defend territory nor are we given an example of Christians engaging in warfare to ensure their survival. Christianity is all about putting off the worldly and putting on the spiritual, and what is war if not a worldly endeavor? I hear you but history has spat in the face of what Christianity is consistently. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:44:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus interceded for the transgressors, i.e., you and me and Peter and everyone else. The point of buying the sword was not commanding Peter to sin, but allowing Peter to sin, which was doing what came naturally by attempting to prevent Jesus' arrest through violence using a sword. Same would apply to Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus allowed, and in fact commanded, to go and carry out the betrayal. It was another case of Jesus ensuring that all the prophecy concerning Him was fulfilled. Seems to me you are splitting hairs here. You are telling me having the sword was to be numbered among the transgressors. And Jesus directly telling them to get a sword was "allowing" them to sin? You lost me on that. Sorry you are too smart for me by half. I thank you for your time. And I will leave you with this: Jesus taught us to love one another as our selves. He taught us to ignore insults and minor injuries for the sake of peace, and to make amends with our brothers. He was pretty specific. If he wanted us to facilitate our own murder at the hands of our enemies, he would have said so. I hope you and yours have a happy and blessed Christmas celebration. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:50:13 PM EDT
[#48]
I don't know if it qualifies as violence - but Jesus did overturn the money changer's table, and create a whip to run them out of the temple.
Turn your own cheek is one thing, but when it came to preventing the God fearers from worshiping (turning their courtyard into a marketplace), he did defend them. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 5:55:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never argued differently. The Crusades were counterproductive though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you need to read up on the Crusades. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. Really. I haven't read that one. However, I do know that the Crusades caused tremendous damage to Christendom. It ultimately led to the fall of Constantinople. The problem is that in this politically correct time it is difficult to find relatively unbiased accounts. So many seem to be (The evil, white, Christian Europeans went and beat up on the peace-loving Muslims because they wanted land that had always belonged to the Muslims." That's actually what a lot of people believe these days. The basic facts are that the Jihad had attacked, invaded, slaughtered, and subjugated into Europe for several centuries before the first Crusade (aka: Counterjihad), and with Islam being a 7th century invention, the lands couldn't have "always" been Muslim-owned. Actually, the region was largely Jewish and Christian before the slaughtering hordes came to spread Islam. I never argued differently. The Crusades were counterproductive though. I'm not arguing (this isn't an ideal communications medium). 
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:01:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if it qualifies as violence - but Jesus did overturn the money changer's table, and create a whip to run them out of the temple. Turn your own cheek is one thing, but when it came to preventing the God fearers from worshiping (turning their courtyard into a marketplace), he did defend them. "Give onto Caesar what is Caesar's" |
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