User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:39:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That isn't what the video showed. Water was flowing off that parking lot and down the hill to the river. That is why there is a bigass hole they are dropping rocks in right now. I had been believing that competent engineers had designed and overseen the construction of the emergency spillway so that it, and the gate house, occupied the depression between 2 hills and were anchored into solid rock at the interface with the hills. The emergency spillway should continue its ogee profile from its start at the gate house all to the way to the anchor point at the other end, whether or not there is fill on the face or vertical portion of the spillway. That would be sacrificial fill. I thought the spillway was continuous that whole way and they used fill to construct the parking lot and it's access road to control rain runoff and just scour if the spillway was ever topped. I was wrong. Look at this picture from the dedication ceremony in 1968 (I suck at posting picture links on my iPad): http://media.nbclosangeles.com/images/987*804/Oroville_Dedication_3574-37_05_04_1968.jpg The fucking spillway ENDS at the parking lot. You clearly can see that the ogee ends at the start of the level area of the parking lot and continues as merely a retaining wall. Maybe the parking lot is sitting on solid rock but I can't find an earlier picture than this of that area. If it were, and they intended flow to go over it and stay intact, they would have put a pier and contour to manage flow over the spillway at the end to avoid directly scouring the hillside and end of the spillway. The entire emergency spillway is apparently just filler. They never designed it to be "used". That entire section is there to sacrifice itself and save the dam. You wouldn't allow possibly hundreds of CFS of flow over the spillway without some form of large anchoring structure and control to the west end of the spillway, like there is at the gate house end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:40:48 PM EDT
[#2]
All I know for sure is I hope it does not go, RCBS is down stream..........
and I have a kinetic puller that needs replaced |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:41:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Godhead though he may be, some politician yackety-schmackety does not a design intention make. It is pretty safe to assume that the tallest dam in the US had some degree of water storage as a part of the desire for it's construction. Downstream is some of the most productive farm ground in the world. The storage in that impoundment is worth billions. That being said the design was never intended for pool levels over the main spill gate as a now standard practice. Kali has a well documented problem with what might be called "Pool Creep" because it's very thirsty. 
Runoff season this year is going to be interesting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:44:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote History I have my own pans, portable sluice, and plenty of vacation time. can i come with you? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:45:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe this illustration is bull shit. 
There is no fuckin way that they would of built the espillway on dirt or fill, not back in the 60s. They would of built it on solid bed rock.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This deserves a re-post. Credit to slankford for digging it up. Notice the espillway is *not* anchored to bedrock. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Oroville-erosion-146155.JPG I believe this illustration is bull shit.
There is no fuckin way that they would of built the espillway on dirt or fill, not back in the 60s. They would of built it on solid bed rock. What about the 50's? 
http://web.mst.edu/~rogersda/dams/2_43_Rogers.pdf |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:45:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fiat money doesn't follow the laws of Physics. Ignore physics and think it's too hard all you want, but it isn't going to ignore you. We need to get the truth out to the media that matters before the blame train goes into full swing. This is NOT "Fake News". It isn't even abnormal runoff yet and they've got the dam failing on purpose, that's the message that needs to get out. How do you get the UK DailyMail or whatever site is covering this to read the 1991 Paper that says this is going to happen, and CA does it anyway without a FERC license? Get it to Brietbart? To Drudge? Somebody to write it in a form that the modern short attention span people can handle without sounding overly dramatic and pissy about it? Serious. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:48:34 PM EDT
[#7]
The single helicopter taking baggies of rocks reminds me of tryibg to dig an olympic sized pool with a stirring spoon.
I fugured it would have been a fleet of heavy lifts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:49:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your link doesn't say that something like this is going to happen. In fact, it echoes DWR in saying "Numerous faults were mapped in the foundations of the Oroville Dam and Hyatt Powerplant. However, none appeared to be significantly threatening since displacement along the faults would be minimal and unlikely to occur." Sorry, I didn't include the extra link, it's a different PDF and I can't find it now, it was also linked in this thread. Tie that together with the FERC requirements not being met, so ignored (meaning "We are making this a water storage dam, not a flood control dam"), and you have where we are today. The damage to the spillway was known for a long time, and they only patched the spillway, not investigating the cause of the cracks/failures. All the links are in this thread for a completely referenced article on why this happened, why CA ignores .gov rules, the information about inspections being distant and visual instead of by the book, and more. Not hearsay, but actually written down in PDFs, usually buried within them. I didn't happen to save every one with highlighted bookmarks since I honestly didn't think it was this bad. All of the major CA Reservoirs have foregone flood control as primary to water storage as primary, combined with deferred maintenance funds, and a shitstorm is going to happen. It's easy for me to say in an opinion like this on a post from the kilopages I've read since this stared. I'm not getting paid to re-read and then re-write that shit, that's what journalists are supposed to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:52:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While the maintence part is true, the waterlevel was below the spillway intake in December... it has come up 200+ feet. It hasn't been kept overfilled.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The dam is an inflow for multiple streams of water, thus it's a waterSHED. While a watershed dam does indeed hold water, being used as a reservoir is at best a secondary purpose. That's why you build reservoirs, so your dam doesn't get stressed beyond design limits. The state got complacent and skipped on basic maintenance, and got greedy by keeping the watershed filled to such a high level that the kind of storms they saw 15 or 20 years ago overloaded the dam's emergency overflow because they shit the bucket on spillway repair. Now they're paying the piper, and Moonbeam's sitting in his mansion smoking pot while people with no slack in their budgets are forced to evacuate. Typical California government. While the maintence part is true, the waterlevel was below the spillway intake in December... it has come up 200+ feet. It hasn't been kept overfilled.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:52:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That guy is a talking penis. "I'm going to make sure we get 12% of .gov infrastructure money." Fuck the shit out of that smug prick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Moonbeam presser now. That guy is a talking penis. "I'm going to make sure we get 12% of .gov infrastructure money." Fuck the shit out of that smug prick. Fucking moonbeam was all huffed up about secession last week and now he wants 12% of the infrastructure funds?? Lol fuck leftists. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:52:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In hindsight, you're probably right. Going forward, things may not be as bleak as people think, if the upper section of the primary spillway is actually on bedrock like they've said it is and can be stabilized. The erosion from the primary spillway seems to have stabilized at this rate of flow, but nobody knows how much water they can flow and for how long without damaging it further. It could be they did, in fact, want to see what would happen when they flowed some water over the e-spillway so they'd know what to expect when they HAVE to in a week or a month. They can't use the e spillway again, don't see it. Apparently labeling it the alternative spillway didn't make it any stronger. Even the 2005 FERC issue around improving the e spillway said that it met the standard and noted that sustaining substantial damage when used was within the standard! After reading that why did they even try it? It's a last resort, so I don't see them using it unless the primary is eroding back a lot more...and there is probably bedrock before it gets to that point. Actually, why fix the primary spillway? Maybe stabilize the exposed soil, but otherwise why not just keep dumping water on the now exposed bedrock? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:53:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't be trusted so I fixed it for you. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/369185/map-of-bag-drop-146264.JPG The black is what it's doing and the red is what it could do. The red would be better because that's going away from the complex. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:54:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have my own pans, portable sluice, and plenty of vacation time. can i come with you? Oh man i wish i could actually go. I dont have a high banker yet, but I would probably get one just for this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:55:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The single helicopter taking baggies of rocks reminds me of tryibg to dig an olympic sized pool with a stirring spoon. I fugured it would have been a fleet of heavy lifts. sounds like more about appearances than substance at this point... are they letting folks back into Oroville to collect their property before the next evacuation? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:56:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it extended down below grade equally as far as what we can see, I'm sure that would have been shown in the cross section. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/268039/Screenshot-2017-02-12-12-10-57-1-145248.png I have not been paying much attention to this but is this the spillway at the parking area? An Ogee crest is supposed to promote a hydraulic jump at the bottom by using a stilling basin at the bottom that provides a tailwater. There is supposed to be a pool of water at the bottom. The pictures I saw shows the bottom ogee spillway ending on a sloped grade such that no tailwater would develop and no hydraulic jump would occur. Even if a short jump does occur, the steep grades on the downslope side of the spillway negate any dissipation of energy because the flows would just erode downstream of the spillway and headcut back to the spillway. In short, the ogee crest spillway is worthless if there are steep slopes downstream of it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:57:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The single helicopter taking baggies of rocks reminds me of tryibg to dig an olympic sized pool with a stirring spoon. I fugured it would have been a fleet of heavy lifts. It's a pair of helos, to be fair. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:57:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The spillway being damaged was a bad thing but why on earth did they decide to use the emergency spillway?
Isn't an emergency spillway an absolute last resort, Hail Mary to save the main dam incase shit goes sideways on the main spillway. As in the main spillway won't flow any water for whatever reason. Why didn't they ramp up the output on the spillway and monitor the erosion early on before deciding on the E spillway option? After all said and done, they did ramp up to 100K cfs and the spillway wasn't damaged too much more. Didn't the E spillway only put out 12K cfs. If so, their cost-benefit analysis ration was way off. They renamed the emergency spillway as "auxiliary spillway" and thus decided they would still get thier participation trophys if the used it and kept the dam as full as they possibly could to counteract "global warming". |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:58:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have not been paying much attention to this but is this the spillway at the parking area? An Ogee crest is supposed to promote a hydraulic jump at the bottom by using a stilling basin at the bottom that provides a tailwater. There is supposed to be a pool of water at the bottom. The pictures I saw shows the bottom ogee spillway ending on a sloped grade such that no tailwater would develop and no hydraulic jump would occur. Even if a short jump does occur, the steep grades on the downslope side of the spillway negate any dissipation of energy because the flows would just erode downstream of the spillway and headcut back to the spillway. In short, the ogee crest spillway is worthless if there are steep slopes downstream of it. What he said. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:58:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The black is what it's doing and the red is what it could do. The red would be better because that's going away from the complex. Right toward the power lines so ugh, lose lose |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 11:58:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The single helicopter taking baggies of rocks reminds me of tryibg to dig an olympic sized pool with a stirring spoon. I fugured it would have been a fleet of heavy lifts. No amount of fixing is going to make the E spillway a feasible method of releasing containment in a controlled manner. We are seeing the cheapest way to look like they are fixing things. If the E spillway comes back into play it will fail without question, with or without any fixes like this. Why throw more dollars down those holes when it won't make a bit of difference. Everything depends on the flume of the main spillway surviving the runoff season and hope and prayer are the only options to help that damaged structure.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:00:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
video of Northern edge of the water flow while it was flowing over the emergency spillway.
It looks like where the weir structure gets to the driveway, the driveway is raised. So I now doubt the flow is going around the weir. But the flow going into that corner is probably digging underneath the roadway there and threatening to cut a new channel down the hillside that would go places and do more damage to the power lines. If you follow the elevation contours on the maps you can see where that potential new channel would take out multiple power lines about halfway down the slope where the power lines cross one another. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:04:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to this article - weir discharge rates increase considerably when design head is exceeded. It would seem to indicate at 20' of head and 1700' long it would discharge at over 1/2 million CFS. That's twice what has ever been recorded for inflow into the system. There is a calculated example and table about 1/2 down the pdf file for this exact type of weir - just that they use 100' length. In other words, If the primary spillway were 100% non-functional, and the turbine intake were non-functional, and you had a 2x what has ever been recorded inflow, and the reservoir was at 901' elevation to start with, the flow could still not top the dam. I'm not sure what else an emergency /auxiliary spillway is supposed to do. The real problem that was exposed here, IMHO, is the poor maintenance of the primary spillway allowing a near catastrophic comedy of errors to occur. That and the conditions of the bedrock should be better known (although they may very well be well known to those responsible for the dam) I would think they ought to do something to collect and or direct flow more positively away from the primary spillway. Re-directing that much flow though comes with it's own problems with cutting and turbulence. Think they would want to be pretty careful about how they approach that one. weirs And once the 20' of water goes over the emergency spillway? Because you can be sure they didn't design it for 20ft of head nor did they design the downhill portion for a river of 20' of water trying to go down it. You're also forgetting that there are probably numerous points lower than that 20' around the lake that the water will exit over... The big Q would be where... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:05:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At times we needed an engineer to human translator. Are they or their house in harms way? I'd settle for a geologist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:06:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No amount of fixing is going to make the E spillway a feasible method of releasing containment in a controlled manner. We are seeing the cheapest way to look like they are fixing things. If the E spillway comes back into play it will fail without question, with or without any fixes like this. Why throw more dollars down those holes when it won't make a bit of difference. Everything depends on the flume of the main spillway surviving the runoff season and hope and prayer are the only options to help that damaged structure. "Well we tReid". Could help depending on the flow and duration. Not a good chance, but the best they got. Walrus and me think you Crete the whole thin with a bad ass ski jump on it and hold the water ski Olypics on that bitch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:09:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And once the 20' of water goes over the emergency spillway? Because you can be sure they didn't design it for 20ft of head nor did they design the downhill portion for a river of 20' of water trying to go down it. You're also forgetting that there are probably numerous points lower than that 20' around the lake that the water will exit over... The big Q would be where... The E spillway began to fail with a bit over a foot of flow. Getting to 20 feet seems a bit of a stretch.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:10:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be silly to think storage was not part of the rationale for constructing the dam project of this magnitude. The problem comes from Kalis ever increasing thirst, ever increasing storage efforts, and deferring maintenance. There is a reason this Dam lost it's Federal license. It's going to be a long runoff season for California. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It wasn't a change. A couple pages back there was a YouTube video documentary/puff piece that included Ronaldus Maximus dedicating the damn. He mentioned storage in his dedication. It was always meant for storage. It would be silly to think storage was not part of the rationale for constructing the dam project of this magnitude. The problem comes from Kalis ever increasing thirst, ever increasing storage efforts, and deferring maintenance. There is a reason this Dam lost it's Federal license. It's going to be a long runoff season for California. I wasn't there, but I suspect the previous drought years created a decision tree or culture that said to get it as full as possible as soon as possible. I can easily imagine a scenario where that disconnected from people warning that the spillway had maintenance issues. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:10:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not sure if it was posted, RCBS is closed due to this. Well, that does make sense in a way. The employees should all be evacuated if they live in Oroville and those living outside the evacuations zone are probably not being allowed into the place since it is in the evacuation zone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:10:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Interesting read for those who think DWR is doing the best they can:
http://www.chicoer.com/article/zz/20100223/NEWS/100227917 summary: DWR has a history of failing to inspect and maintain the dam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:11:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless it ends in dirt rather than rock - so what? its an emergency spillway - topsoils and shit are going to wash downhill. If it can compromise the weir and cause a failure of the weir structure - it's bad. Otherwise, meh. The hill next to it looks like a pile of rock. most it can do is maybe scour out a bit. Still really like to see some dimensioned drawings of the weir cross section and specs on it's construction (anchorages especially) If it's entirely a gravity structure, I wonder what kind of head it is ale to withstand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But it is.... The water is going over the parking lot and bypassing the spillway, causing earth erosion and turbulence in in the water flow at the end of the e spillway. Unless it ends in dirt rather than rock - so what? its an emergency spillway - topsoils and shit are going to wash downhill. If it can compromise the weir and cause a failure of the weir structure - it's bad. Otherwise, meh. The hill next to it looks like a pile of rock. most it can do is maybe scour out a bit. Still really like to see some dimensioned drawings of the weir cross section and specs on it's construction (anchorages especially) If it's entirely a gravity structure, I wonder what kind of head it is ale to withstand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:11:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, I didn't include the extra link, it's a different PDF and I can't find it now, it was also linked in this thread. Tie that together with the FERC requirements not being met, so ignored (meaning "We are making this a water storage dam, not a flood control dam"), and you have where we are today. The damage to the spillway was known for a long time, and they only patched the spillway, not investigating the cause of the cracks/failures. All the links are in this thread for a completely referenced article on why this happened, why CA ignores .gov rules, the information about inspections being distant and visual instead of by the book, and more. Not hearsay, but actually written down in PDFs, usually buried within them. I didn't happen to save every one with highlighted bookmarks since I honestly didn't think it was this bad. All of the major CA Reservoirs have foregone flood control as primary to water storage as primary, combined with deferred maintenance funds, and a shitstorm is going to happen. It's easy for me to say in an opinion like this on a post from the kilopages I've read since this stared. I'm not getting paid to re-read and then re-write that shit, that's what journalists are supposed to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your link doesn't say that something like this is going to happen. In fact, it echoes DWR in saying "Numerous faults were mapped in the foundations of the Oroville Dam and Hyatt Powerplant. However, none appeared to be significantly threatening since displacement along the faults would be minimal and unlikely to occur." Sorry, I didn't include the extra link, it's a different PDF and I can't find it now, it was also linked in this thread. Tie that together with the FERC requirements not being met, so ignored (meaning "We are making this a water storage dam, not a flood control dam"), and you have where we are today. The damage to the spillway was known for a long time, and they only patched the spillway, not investigating the cause of the cracks/failures. All the links are in this thread for a completely referenced article on why this happened, why CA ignores .gov rules, the information about inspections being distant and visual instead of by the book, and more. Not hearsay, but actually written down in PDFs, usually buried within them. I didn't happen to save every one with highlighted bookmarks since I honestly didn't think it was this bad. All of the major CA Reservoirs have foregone flood control as primary to water storage as primary, combined with deferred maintenance funds, and a shitstorm is going to happen. It's easy for me to say in an opinion like this on a post from the kilopages I've read since this stared. I'm not getting paid to re-read and then re-write that shit, that's what journalists are supposed to do. You have repeatedly stated that the dam was no longer licensed by the FERC, as of 2005, but there's a settlement agreement for relicensing the dam in 2006, and nothing in that agreement covers anything about increasing capacity, the bulk of it talks about remediation measures for various forms of wildlife (snakes, fish, bald eagles, etc...). |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:12:19 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Notice the spillway capacity says 650,000 cfs I wonder if that's a theoretical capacity if the head is at the top of the dam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:14:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Some construction photos of the dam in the 60's
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:15:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Biblical
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:16:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They can't use the e spillway again, don't see it. Apparently labeling it the alternative spillway didn't make it any stronger. Even the 2005 FERC issue around improving the e spillway said that it met the standard and noted that sustaining substantial damage when used was within the standard! After reading that why did they even try it? It's a last resort, so I don't see them using it unless the primary is eroding back a lot more...and there is probably bedrock before it gets to that point. Actually, why fix the primary spillway? Maybe stabilize the exposed soil, but otherwise why not just keep dumping water on the now exposed bedrock? I'm thinking along the same lines. Now we know, the e-spill isn't a viable option. I'm also thinking along the same lines as you about the primary spillway, it may not be necessary to do as much as people are thinking to get it operational again, at this point returning it to its previous configuration isn't practical or necessary, they just need to engineer a new configuration that's stable. Of course we really don't know that any other configuration can meet the requirements, the people running the dam have no idea either, or what the thing will do under higher loads as it is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:17:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the whole shebang rests on whether the weir can be undermined and then topple The whole shebang rests on the flume of the main spillway. It needs to hold at 150k at a min.
If the E spillway comes back into play it is catastrophic. It won't hold as was demonstrated last night. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:18:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have repeatedly stated that the dam was no longer licensed by the FERC, as of 2005, but there's a settlement agreement for relicensing the dam in 2006, and nothing in that agreement covers anything about increasing capacity, the bulk of it talks about remediation measures for various forms of wildlife (snakes, fish, bald eagles, etc...). License still not issued it has been in the renewal process for over a decade. --ETA: Lawsuits from Sierra Club and others wanting emergency spillway to be modified the way they are doing it today, and others have tied it up. More Info from CA DWR itself on the license problems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:19:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No amount of fixing is going to make the E spillway a feasible method of releasing containment in a controlled manner. We are seeing the cheapest way to look like they are fixing things. If the E spillway comes back into play it will fail without question, with or without any fixes like this. Why throw more dollars down those holes when it won't make a bit of difference. Everything depends on the flume of the main spillway surviving the runoff season and hope and prayer are the only options to help that damaged structure. Optics. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:20:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
north valley community foundation Nvcf I know board members, the money is being distributed straight to the local points of need. I'd prefer to not handle peoples funds. Elks lodge has a bar! Direct link for donations: http://nvcf.org/fund/oroville-evacuation-fund/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:22:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Optics. That's the point. They have the "Optics" by dropping a few rocks in the holes. Why spend buck on real deal heavy lift when it is easier to just fiddle faddle around with a few Rock Hawks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:23:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the point. They have the "Optics" by dropping a few rocks in the holes. Why spend buck on real deal heavy lift when it is easier to just fiddle faddle around with a few Rock Hawks. They are pissing into the ocean, acting as if it matters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:25:01 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there are sinkholes in the parking lot, the dam is already undermined. Here is why people react poorly. "Dam" is not the emergency spillway. The parking lot may have about half of the emergency spillway alongside it but it (the emergency spillway) is not the "dam." |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:25:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually one of the guys posted a video of governor Reagan dedicating it, he said watershed....I doubt they ever planned for it to be filled to near capacity year round though... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good Lord. That is not very much fudge factor for nature is it? It was never designed or built to be an actual water shed dam, it was supposed to be used for flood co tell and electrical generation..meaning neither spill control was supposed to see any water at all unless during severe flooding...instead California gov made it into a water resource and filled it to the brim and used the spill gate to control peak level...this is all on the state...period.. Pretty much this. The navel gazers, NIMBYS, tree huggers and delta smelt aficionados didn't want, or want to pay for, a proper spillway or reservoirs. California's a state run by grasshoppers. I left in 1999, it's time for the rest of the good people to GTFO before the whole damn place turns into Mexico. Actually one of the guys posted a video of governor Reagan dedicating it, he said watershed....I doubt they ever planned for it to be filled to near capacity year round though... The problem is the fucked up maintenance of the primary spillway. If that had been done correctly we would be fighting about beans in chilli or some other shit in GD. It's not filled to capacity year round. Some years for 2-3 months yes. Most years not even close. They let it build up capacity during the rainy season and snow melt then release it down during the dry months to provide a stable supply of irrigation and drinking water. Greenish shaded area is historical reservoir levels from when it was built to now. Red line is the level for that year. Going back 5 years. 2016-2017 They started dumping water at about 78% capacity when the main spillway break occurred.  Attached File2015-2016  Attached File2014-2015  Attached File2013-2014  Attached File2012-2013  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:26:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm capable and willing to work Insane hours for great pay. Who do I need to talk to? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Holy shit! I have a relative there hauling rock to the dam. I did not know where he was living until he started putting pictures up on his facebook. One pic he is posting from his truck with a caption "Heading to Marysville for a load of rock then to the dam in orriville and hope it don't disappear".  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:29:02 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The spillway being damaged was a bad thing but why on earth did they decide to use the emergency spillway?
Isn't an emergency spillway an absolute last resort, Hail Mary to save the main dam incase shit goes sideways on the main spillway. As in the main spillway won't flow any water for whatever reason. Why didn't they ramp up the output on the spillway and monitor the erosion early on before deciding on the E spillway option? After all said and done, they did ramp up to 100K cfs and the spillway wasn't damaged too much more. Didn't the E spillway only put out 12K cfs. If so, their cost-benefit analysis ration was way off. Humans didn't "decide" to use the E-spill, Mother Nature did. Humans ran the reg spillway as much as they thought was safe considering its damaged state. they increased flow on the reg spillway when it they ran out of options. They were just as worried about losing the main spillway gates to erosion. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:29:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting read for those who think DWR is doing the best they can: http://www.chicoer.com/article/zz/20100223/NEWS/100227917 summary: DWR has a history of failing to inspect and maintain the dam. "Four of the employees suffered minor injuries, with one employee reportedly sustaining major injuries including head trauma, a broken arm and leg and cuts and bruises." Strange how CA is mistakenly considered a protector of worker safety.z |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:30:51 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryNotice how historical peak capacity is around 1 June. That confirms what one or more others have mentioned about the rainy season and snow melt. This has the potential to be a serious situation for about four more months. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:31:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Humans didn't "decide" to use the E-spill, Mother Nature did. Humans ran the reg spillway as much as they thought was safe considering its damaged state. they increased flow on the reg spillway when it they ran out of options. They were just as worried about losing the main spillway gates to erosion. Murphy had a hand in it as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:31:48 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Humans didn't "decide" to use the E-spill, Mother Nature did. Humans ran the reg spillway as much as they thought was safe considering its damaged state. they increased flow on the reg spillway when it they ran out of options. They were just as worried about losing the main spillway gates to erosion. Murphy got me a double |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:31:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're probably not anchored, they're probably moored. It's a meaningful difference. Moorings are usually large cement blocks, not just a fork stuck in the mud. A proper mooring should be capable of sinking those boats before the mooring blocks move, but once they're under water and creating drag from the flow, they could well move. The tethers would break first, I suspect, but again, they'll just be a bit of interesting flotsam and there will be no "boom". You are right on the moorings. A mooring is more substantial than just tossing out an anchor. The weak link will be the line that connects the boats to the mooring buoy. If there is a catastrophic failure I suspect the boats won't go anywhere despite all that flow, it wouldn't be enough to break their lines unless they are rotten. Most houseboats aren't all that heavy in the grand scheme of things. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2017 12:31:53 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I heard it was unobtanium from a source who has a friend who's brother had a co-worker that read about in a cave drawing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The gaps are where all the gold was that washed out and went downstream.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
