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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:39:05 PM EDT
[#1]
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Water is not compressible. Depending on the distance between the debris and the face of the dam, using explosives could cause dam failures from the shockwaves. C'mon guys...you guys haven't seen Force 10 from Navarone?  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:40:15 PM EDT
[#2]
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And you missed the entire point. Deteriorated concrete. The very same material the whole thing is made of. Deferred repairs. 2009 - and the repair is still not completed. A pattern of events that completely predicted the spillway failure. Impossible to say what ELSE they have not been inspecting & maintaining either. If you had a rust hole in a brake line on your vehicle,would you hammer the end flat & decide that it was only a rear brake? Drive it that way for years without looking at the rest of the steel brake lines? That is what they have done. Considering the amount of times the deferred repairs topic has been brought up, that was taken as granted in my post. I was only addressing the statement that they were out of use entirely. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:40:46 PM EDT
[#3]
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It's a passive weir. When the lake reaches a certain level, 901', the water begins to spill over that weir. The main spillway and it's gates are ordinarily used to control the lake levels. As the main spillway was damaged, they necked the spillway flow down in an effort to slow/minimize the erosion to the damaged main spillway. Those reduced effluent release amounts didn't keep up with the inflow into the lake resulting in the water running over the espillway. The resulting erosion beneath the espillway caused them to have to forego trying to minimize damage to the main spillway and the gates were opened to lower the lake level - regardless of the erosion of the main spillway. Hope this makes sense. It does. Thank you for that answer. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:41:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Is there any chopper video from this AM?
I'm interested in seeing what the site looks like at present. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:44:51 PM EDT
[#5]
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Poison oak soap with oatmeal in it! That shit is a life saver. From a mountain biker and rock climber in poison oak country. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It was not on my mind at the time... But the hillside I snuck down must've been completely covered with poison oak. I have got that shit everywhere !!! Poison oak soap with oatmeal in it! That shit is a life saver. From a mountain biker and rock climber in poison oak country. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:45:12 PM EDT
[#6]
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Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else. 
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. You cannot make water occupy a smaller volume. You can pressurize water, but that isn't the definition of compressible. In thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, compressibility is a measure of the relative volume change of a fluid or solid as a response to a pressure (or mean stress) change. <- Googled compressible definition |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:46:27 PM EDT
[#7]
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For poison oak & poison ivy.....run very hot water over the affected area....as hot as you can stand without burning yourself. This will release histamines, and will feel intense until you stop. Pat skin dry, and enjoy the relief for about 6 hours, then repete. You're welcome. I've always done this for a small patch, put some bleach on a cotton ball and rub it over the area after you dry it, it helps dry it up and keep it from weeping. For the OP though ( if it is EVERYWHERE ), just go see a doc and get a shot of cortisone and be done with it. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:47:23 PM EDT
[#8]
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I don't want to alarm anyone, but apparently this thing has a history of dropping an earthquake after a "rapid fluctuation" in water levels. http://www.johnmartin.com/earthquakes/eqpapers/00000052.htm Here's a question for the geologists. The crappy material a the emergency spillway... it looks OLD and weathered/decomposed to me, but is it possible some of that fracturing was not initially there when they built this sucker, and that the fracturing occurred later as a result of seismic activity? It needs to be a much larger change, like you see when filling a reservoir like this from 100% empty to full. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:48:40 PM EDT
[#9]
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They use howitzers to clear avalanche build ups, why not drop some precision guided munitions on the debris build up to clear it out? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I found a report that says the river valve outlet was partially repaired in 2014, and tested in 2014 - 2015 up to half capacity. Since the river valve uses the same tunnels as the plant, they can not open it without further flooding to the plant due to the debri at the end of the spillway backing up the water. They use howitzers to clear avalanche build ups, why not drop some precision guided munitions on the debris build up to clear it out? 
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:49:33 PM EDT
[#10]
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That reads like Chernobyl. "We're gonna turn off all our safety features to test them one by one. Oh shit the last one failed" Never thought of it like that. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:49:56 PM EDT
[#11]
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Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. Only if you squueze it (water) really hard.... Which makes it essentially an incompressibke fluid. Unless you have a new way to make it half its size... |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:50:47 PM EDT
[#12]
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Really? Not doubting you but the inside of the hopper would be a meat grinder for fish. Former mixer truck driver here Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They are using it to move salmon to the lake, since it it blocking their migration. Really? Not doubting you but the inside of the hopper would be a meat grinder for fish. Former mixer truck driver here I believe he was being sarcastic, to illustrate the absurdity of how liberals "think" (using their feelz of course) and how they prioritize things. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:51:53 PM EDT
[#13]
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Protecting the main spillway gates for when the e-spill overflows and most likely collapses? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ìnteresting. The work is being done at the base of the highest portion of the weir and along the road between it and the primary spillway. Nothing on the hole where the main weir ends and the smaller weir along the parking lot begins. Doesnt show the far end of the lot at all. yes. I suspect so. What I found interesting about is that there was a fair amount of speculation (here and elsewhere) that the crack in the bedrock downstream of the weir near the parking lot junction was the disaster in waiting and what may have led to the declaring imminent failure of the espillway. But as of the latest pictures they are not working on that area at all. I'm not following the why on fixing the far end road. They are going to spend beaucoup $ fixing roads, spillways, etc. saving that road seems - odd. Its a couple hundred feet from the end of the parking lot weir to that corner - who cares if that corner washes out? Placing bags o' rock there is not going to change the source of the water that is causing the washout (if thats the problem). The topography may direct a bit of spill water from the parking area off in that direction down a different ravine to the river - maybe they are worried about debris and power line structures down there. dunno. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:53:22 PM EDT
[#14]
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Want to see the dam fail? Overbuild the Espillway real quick and you could possibly endanger the dam itself. Let the fucking Espill fail, it will save the dam. Leave us hope there's a better avenue. 
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:53:30 PM EDT
[#15]
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Nice picture. Looks like they cut part of the hill away to create the parking lot. Also no lower wier sturcture in evidence. At least not to my eyes. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:55:14 PM EDT
[#16]
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As a former Ohio University Bobcat I can say a thing or two about party schools. It actually came up at a job interview once. They basically made a statement about OU being known for excessive partying and wanted to know how I felt that would do anything to further my case with them. My reply was a quick statement on the value of learning time management on a very steep learning curve. Those who couldn't manage their studies and their time demands quickly faded out as they did the "walk of shame" out of the dorms. I was proud of never blowing a deadline, keeping good grades, and learning how to prioritize. You don't graduate from a place like that unless you have some kind of work ethic. The interviewer was kind of shocked by that response. OU.....lol |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:58:10 PM EDT
[#17]
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It was not on my mind at the time... But the hillside I snuck down must've been completely covered with poison oak. I have got that shit everywhere !!! No good deed goes unpunished.
Thanks for all you have done so far. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:58:52 PM EDT
[#18]
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<strong>Weather forecast looking mighty wet next few weeks. </strong> <a href="http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/gfs/2017021412/gfs_apcpn_swus_52.png" target="_blank">http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/gfs/2017021412/gfs_apcpn_swus_52.png</a> <strong>This is Saturday Accumulated precipitation. </strong> <a href="http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/gfs/2017021412/gfs_apcpn_swus_14.png" target="_blank">http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/gfs/2017021412/gfs_apcpn_swus_14.png</a> I believe the GFS model has a known bias towards overstating precipitation |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 1:59:09 PM EDT
[#19]
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Only if you squueze it (water) really hard.... Which makes it essentially an incompressibke fluid. Unless you have a new way to make it half its size... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. Only if you squueze it (water) really hard.... Which makes it essentially an incompressibke fluid. Unless you have a new way to make it half its size... Found on reddit: Water (in its liquid state) is compressible, but it is quite a stiff substance - in that it doesn't compress much. The bulk modulus is the formal measure of "compressibility", and an "incompressible" substance would have an infinite bulk modulus, which water most definitely does not. Liquid water has a bulk modulus of 2.2 GPa - what that means is that to shrink water to 99% of its normal volume you would have to apply a pressure of 22 MPa (3,200 lbf/in2). In comparison, steel has a bulk modulus of about 160 GPa - so steel is about 80 times less compressible than water. Air has a bulk modulus of about 100 kPa - so it is about 20,000x as compressible as water. Steam also doesn't really exist at very high pressures. Above a pressure of 10 GPa (1,500,000 lbf/in2) water can exist only in solid and liquid forms. If you heat the water at high pressure (more than 10 GPa) to try to boil it, then you don't get any steam. If you did, the "steam" would have the same density of the water, because it was so highly compressed. Instead, you just get a single "supercritical" phase, instead of a liquid/gas phase. Supercritical water is used (instead of steam) in some new power plants, because it allows for much higher efficiency and allows more compact turbines. So while water is technically 'compressible' it's pretty rare you have to consider its stiffness or bulk modulus in compression. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:01:03 PM EDT
[#20]
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When you designed everything downstream it was a flood control Dam. That all changed when it became a water storage dam. They should have let a lot more water out and now can't do a thing about it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4lkWdAVcAEIFRF.jpg This is important posting again. Thanks @Chokey Spillway designed to handle 650,000 more than any inflow numbers we have seen. He re are the problems 1. 2009 river diversion tunnel accident that led to a decommission of the tunnels. (this can bypass water through the dam but not generator) 2. Lack of or improper maintenance of the Spillway. This lead to the Front falling off. 3. River backed up causing shutdown of power plant. 4. Tried to use an untested Emergency Spillway The Dam will survive if the Spillway does. They haven't even opened her up to half way. My question is Why do you design downstream infrastructure than can't handle half what the Country's largest Dam can put out? You can pay me now when you build it or pay later when all your other crap and the town is destroyed. When you designed everything downstream it was a flood control Dam. That all changed when it became a water storage dam. They should have let a lot more water out and now can't do a thing about it. Where did you get the idea it was only built for flood control? |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:02:24 PM EDT
[#21]
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It was always a water storage dam from its inception along with hydroelectric generation and flood control. Where did you get the idea it was only built for flood control? It's been discussed many times in this thread. There is a distinction between the two and how emergency flows are handled. IE, one of them would require the emergency spill to have concrete paved down. Apparently there was some environmentalists throwing a fit about that fact and they changed the classification in order to avoid the work. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:02:48 PM EDT
[#22]
@ProFryan
Technu Wash - follow the directions Also, while you're shopping for that pick up some calamine lotion, benadryl, and oatmeal bath. If you're covered in it from head to toe, you're going to want to have all of that stuff on hand. If you got it in, not on, but in, any part of your body, go see a doctor. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:03:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Found on reddit: Water (in its liquid state) is compressible, but it is quite a stiff substance - in that it doesn't compress much. The bulk modulus is the formal measure of "compressibility", and an "incompressible" substance would have an infinite bulk modulus, which water most definitely does not. Liquid water has a bulk modulus of 2.2 GPa - what that means is that to shrink water to 99% of its normal volume you would have to apply a pressure of 22 MPa (3,200 lbf/in2). In comparison, steel has a bulk modulus of about 160 GPa - so steel is about 80 times less compressible than water. Air has a bulk modulus of about 100 kPa - so it is about 20,000x as compressible as water. Steam also doesn't really exist at very high pressures. Above a pressure of 10 GPa (1,500,000 lbf/in2) water can exist only in solid and liquid forms. If you heat the water at high pressure (more than 10 GPa) to try to boil it, then you don't get any steam. If you did, the "steam" would have the same density of the water, because it was so highly compressed. Instead, you just get a single "supercritical" phase, instead of a liquid/gas phase. Supercritical water is used (instead of steam) in some new power plants, because it allows for much higher efficiency and allows more compact turbines. So while water is technically 'compressible' it's pretty rare you have to consider its stiffness or bulk modulus in compression. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. Only if you squueze it (water) really hard.... Which makes it essentially an incompressibke fluid. Unless you have a new way to make it half its size... Found on reddit: Water (in its liquid state) is compressible, but it is quite a stiff substance - in that it doesn't compress much. The bulk modulus is the formal measure of "compressibility", and an "incompressible" substance would have an infinite bulk modulus, which water most definitely does not. Liquid water has a bulk modulus of 2.2 GPa - what that means is that to shrink water to 99% of its normal volume you would have to apply a pressure of 22 MPa (3,200 lbf/in2). In comparison, steel has a bulk modulus of about 160 GPa - so steel is about 80 times less compressible than water. Air has a bulk modulus of about 100 kPa - so it is about 20,000x as compressible as water. Steam also doesn't really exist at very high pressures. Above a pressure of 10 GPa (1,500,000 lbf/in2) water can exist only in solid and liquid forms. If you heat the water at high pressure (more than 10 GPa) to try to boil it, then you don't get any steam. If you did, the "steam" would have the same density of the water, because it was so highly compressed. Instead, you just get a single "supercritical" phase, instead of a liquid/gas phase. Supercritical water is used (instead of steam) in some new power plants, because it allows for much higher efficiency and allows more compact turbines. So while water is technically 'compressible' it's pretty rare you have to consider its stiffness or bulk modulus in compression. It is taken into account in a pipeline hydrotest. The pipe is filled with water and pressurized greater than the MAOP (maximum allowable operating pressure) of the line so if it's inclined to rupture it does so with water rather than whatever was planned to go in it. It would be common to see tests at 1,800 psi. The compresibility varies by temperature. It's not much...that's a big part of why water is used. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:04:27 PM EDT
[#24]
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Is there any chopper video from this AM? I'm interested in seeing what the site looks like at present. Interesting views from before and after, the first video I had not seen posted until just now. It is a high resolution clip from the CHP:  Oroville Dam  Oroville Dam Update |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:05:18 PM EDT
[#25]
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I'm not saying drop them on the plant. My understanding is the outflows at the base of the dam are blocked with debris that needs to be dredged out but they can't get in there because the spillway is running. Nothing is blocked at the dam. The blockage has occured in the Thermilito pool due to the parts of the spillway and the rocks and dirt from the erroded hillside being dumped into the pool. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:05:32 PM EDT
[#26]
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Thanks for the expertise. What was your first reaction in seeing the disorderly structure of the rock below the ESW and how quickly its going bye bye from erosion? Do you think that entire ridge (i.e., the weir and 20 feet of regolith/chum/and splintered bedrock beneath) is susceptible of being seriously compromised as in a failure event? My first reaction was "Oh hell, that's not good". Even though it may be technically bedrock, it is still subject to major damage from scouring. I don't know that the entire ridge is at risk, however, the entire weir system has been compromised to some extent and is undergoing repairs. There are only two options for retaining and releasing excess water and neither is real good. They have a long wet season in front of them and additional damage is a foregone conclusion. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:06:13 PM EDT
[#27]
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here's a larger pic with the story behind it <p style="text-align:left"></p> River valve damaged in 2009 could have been fourth way to release excess water 
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:07:32 PM EDT
[#28]
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For poison oak & poison ivy.....run very hot water over the affected area....as hot as you can stand without burning yourself. This will release histamines, and will feel intense until you stop. Pat skin dry, and enjoy the relief for about 6 hours, then repete. You're welcome. As a dirty inky, and dedicated poison oak magnet, I agree this is one of the best methods of dealing with intense burning and itching. It also numbs the area so you can more easily massage in lotions or ointments |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:08:39 PM EDT
[#29]
iirc, this was the area of the e-spillway that was causing the concern (the gouge to the left), not the right side closer to the main spillway
I think that anti-pedestrian fence might have had something to do with it |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:09:41 PM EDT
[#30]
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Yep. I was right the first time I guess. Can anyone confirm that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nice picture. Looks like they cut part of the hill away to create the parking lot. Also no lower wier sturcture in evidence. At least not to my eyes. Yep. I was right the first time I guess. Can anyone confirm that? |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:10:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Found on reddit: Water (in its liquid state) is compressible, but it is quite a stiff substance - in that it doesn't compress much. The bulk modulus is the formal measure of "compressibility", and an "incompressible" substance would have an infinite bulk modulus, which water most definitely does not. Liquid water has a bulk modulus of 2.2 GPa - what that means is that to shrink water to 99% of its normal volume you would have to apply a pressure of 22 MPa (3,200 lbf/in2). In comparison, steel has a bulk modulus of about 160 GPa - so steel is about 80 times less compressible than water. Air has a bulk modulus of about 100 kPa - so it is about 20,000x as compressible as water. Steam also doesn't really exist at very high pressures. Above a pressure of 10 GPa (1,500,000 lbf/in2) water can exist only in solid and liquid forms. If you heat the water at high pressure (more than 10 GPa) to try to boil it, then you don't get any steam. If you did, the "steam" would have the same density of the water, because it was so highly compressed. Instead, you just get a single "supercritical" phase, instead of a liquid/gas phase. Supercritical water is used (instead of steam) in some new power plants, because it allows for much higher efficiency and allows more compact turbines. So while water is technically 'compressible' it's pretty rare you have to consider its stiffness or bulk modulus in compression. Like I said... Squeeze really hard, which essentially makes it incompressible. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:11:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Someone posted earlier they thought they had read where grouting was not required on the dam. (And that may be related to only the dam as the spillway and EW are separate structures.)
Anyway, if someone knows where that link is please repost it. I'd love to read that. Frog_Legs standing by..... 
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:12:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only if you squueze it (water) really hard.... Which makes it essentially an incompressibke fluid. Unless you have a new way to make it half its size... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. Only if you squueze it (water) really hard.... Which makes it essentially an incompressibke fluid. Unless you have a new way to make it half its size... |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:16:00 PM EDT
[#34]
The main spillway doesn't seem to be giving way, they should consider increasing the flow by 25k.
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:16:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Looks like they are down there clearing the river.
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:16:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Water is not compressible. Depending on the distance between the debris and the face of the dam, using explosives could cause dam failures from the shockwaves. Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible.  Water compresses about 2.5% at 7500 psi. For most purposes and calculations it is safe to say it's incompressible.
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:16:37 PM EDT
[#37]
But the hillside I snuck down must've been completely covered with poison oak.
Fels Naptha bar soap works wonders on the ivy. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:17:23 PM EDT
[#38]
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It would also release about 450,000 acre feet of water down a river drainage already at or over flood stage. That lake is 15,000+ acres of surface area and the espillway weir holds back the top 30 feet of the lake. Leave us hope there's a better avenue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Want to see the dam fail? Overbuild the Espillway real quick and you could possibly endanger the dam itself. Let the fucking Espill fail, it will save the dam. Leave us hope there's a better avenue. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:17:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. No it isn't. That is why it doesn't collapse under pressure. If it did your brake pedal would feel like a sponge ALL the time. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:18:45 PM EDT
[#40]
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C'mon guys...you guys haven't seen Force 10 from Navarone? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/force-10-from-navarone-146620.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/thB2FCSQNH-146621.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Water is not compressible. Depending on the distance between the debris and the face of the dam, using explosives could cause dam failures from the shockwaves. C'mon guys...you guys haven't seen Force 10 from Navarone? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/force-10-from-navarone-146620.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/thB2FCSQNH-146621.JPG ... Come on, let's see a little leniency here. Most of these guys no formal experience, education or knowledge of mechanical engineering systems |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:18:59 PM EDT
[#41]
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the emergency spillway runs the length of the parking lot. However it does switch from the weir shape to something else that only appears as a speed bump above ground. Water flowed over that speed bump just like the rest of the Emergency spillway... water was spread over the ground there until it formed into channels... one of which was forced left by the road. That spot they are evidently concerned about because that's where they were dropping the rock bags yesterday. They probably don't want that road washing out there... which it definitely would do if flow had continued. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nice picture. Looks like they cut part of the hill away to create the parking lot. Also no lower wier sturcture in evidence. At least not to my eyes. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:20:03 PM EDT
[#42]
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No it isn't. That is why it doesn't collapse under pressure. If it did your brake pedal would feel like a sponge ALL the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dam it this statement is infuriating to hear. Water is compressible, along with everything else.
Generally I hear how hydraulic oil isn't compressible. No it isn't. That is why it doesn't collapse under pressure. If it did your brake pedal would feel like a sponge ALL the time. Yes it is. Some things are just more compressible than others. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:20:30 PM EDT
[#43]
So I just went back through the lake records... Last storm bumped it 52 feet over a couple days albeit with less out the spillway. This time if their lucky they will have 25 feet... They currently have 13......
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:21:32 PM EDT
[#44]
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Looks like they are down there clearing the river. http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/57/11/57/12360651/7/1024x1024.jpg Crazy ideas. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:22:03 PM EDT
[#45]
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A view of the intake during construction and an overview of the site. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/148098/IMG-0206-146633.png https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/148098/IMG-0207-146634.png 
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#46]
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iirc, this was the area of the e-spillway that was causing the concern (the gouge to the left), not the right side closer to the main spillway https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/463093204fa0fbde6a1f65fd487002ca.jpeg https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/0afbd6b37c45b274fb9e6039c909f478.jpeg I think that anti-pedestrian fence might have had something to do with it I dont think the fence has a whole lot to do with it, the corner in the weir/ground behind the weir there was funneling flow to that area causing increased erosion |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:24:11 PM EDT
[#47]
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Looks like they are down there clearing the river. http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/57/11/57/12360651/7/1024x1024.jpg Wasn't this picture from a couple days ago before they increased it to 100K? |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:24:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is taken into account in a pipeline hydrotest. The pipe is filled with water and pressurized greater than the MAOP (maximum allowable operating pressure) of the line so if it's inclined to rupture it does so with water rather than whatever was planned to go in it. It would be common to see tests at 1,800 psi. The compresibility varies by temperature. It's not much...that's a big part of why water is used. It's used in hydro test because it behaves essentially incompressible - which means if the test article breaks or leaks, it looses pressure nearly instantaneously and doesn't become a bomb - like a scuba tank or something. Used to have items pressure tested to several thousand psi. You do not want something pressurized with air to many thousands of lbs of pressure - you basically have a bomb if it lets loose. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:25:46 PM EDT
[#49]
With ~98k CCFS outflow, its dropping at about 3.85 feet per 12hrs. Looks like they only have 36hrs before the next big storm. That's not going to be good.
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Posted: 2/14/2017 2:26:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes. I suspect so. What I found interesting about is that there was a fair amount of speculation (here and elsewhere) that the crack in the bedrock downstream of the weir near the parking lot junction was the disaster in waiting and what may have led to the declaring imminent failure of the espillway. But as of the latest pictures they are not working on that area at all. I'm not following the why on fixing the far end road. They are going to spend beaucoup $ fixing roads, spillways, etc. saving that road seems - odd. Its a couple hundred feet from the end of the parking lot weir to that corner - who cares if that corner washes out? Placing bags o' rock there is not going to change the source of the water that is causing the washout (if thats the problem). The topography may direct a bit of spill water from the parking area off in that direction down a different ravine to the river - maybe they are worried about debris and power line structures down there. dunno. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ìnteresting. The work is being done at the base of the highest portion of the weir and along the road between it and the primary spillway. Nothing on the hole where the main weir ends and the smaller weir along the parking lot begins. Doesnt show the far end of the lot at all. yes. I suspect so. What I found interesting about is that there was a fair amount of speculation (here and elsewhere) that the crack in the bedrock downstream of the weir near the parking lot junction was the disaster in waiting and what may have led to the declaring imminent failure of the espillway. But as of the latest pictures they are not working on that area at all. I'm not following the why on fixing the far end road. They are going to spend beaucoup $ fixing roads, spillways, etc. saving that road seems - odd. Its a couple hundred feet from the end of the parking lot weir to that corner - who cares if that corner washes out? Placing bags o' rock there is not going to change the source of the water that is causing the washout (if thats the problem). The topography may direct a bit of spill water from the parking area off in that direction down a different ravine to the river - maybe they are worried about debris and power line structures down there. dunno. Wonder if that compromised where the original flow of espill water was designed to go at that end ....... |
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