User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:12:48 PM EST
[#1]
Greenwood corpsmembers clear brush near the main Oroville Dam spillway. They'll then construct a sandbag staircase on the hillside to allow easier access by engineers. Other corpsmembers continuing to assist at Chico's Silver Dollar fairgrounds, at the Chico airport and other locations. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:17:52 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What? Why do you get off easy? There's over 660000 people watching this. Tune in Sunday nite. It only takes a minute. Of course, then you drop into the middle of the conversation, have to back track, start catching up, then you notice it's 4 hours later and you have to get up in 3 more hours. You're doomed, ya know. It's like crack coated carmelcorn. It's already altering your conscience, and all you've done is post a plea against it worming it's way to the to core of your mind and taking over. Soon you'll realize you've been up 48 hours and the boss thinks you're a no call no show while your wife (or mother) is screaming at you while you pound the keyboard with bloody fingertips as you calculate the inches of rise against the inches of rain desperately paging back and forth from early page to page trying to understand the calculus of watershed vs impoundment ratios and who would be the most likely to order this disaster not knowing it's been a wet winter and just the start of the spring runoff with 7 major cracks in the bedrock funneling water into schist folds forcing them to spread hydraulically and wedge open even further in a geometric acceleration of horrendous proportions allowing the entire emergency spillway to completely tip over right down to the river bed exposing 200,000 innocent men, women and children to a massive wall of water filled with broken rock, trees, cars, buildings, and concrete in a titanic blender of incredible power destroying everything in its path down the river past Sacramento into the Bay and then in a towering wall of hurtling mud destroying the Golden Gate leaving nothing more than stubs of concrete that are swallowed up in the cataclysmic earthquake of California sinking into the Pacific. Nope. No mercy. Yer doomed. They will find your body slumped over the keyboard along with half a million others with your eyes literally fused to the screen. The survivors will split up your gear and inscribe your name on the monument facing the sea in Nevada. 
And I'm out! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:24:14 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
pic from yesterday showing why they have to slowdown release as water level drops. See that turbulence? that will pick up the rocks in the channel leading up to the gates... and it'll get carried through and down the spillway. They don't want that. Besides the potential damage and increased debris into the river bellow... there's the hole it would dig next to the spillway gates...  I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:24:21 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16682048_1252014738218965_5424670373177812340_n.jpg?oh=45049e12c85c10f03672524bb4f9a165&oe=59480C29 Greenwood corpsmembers clear brush near the main Oroville Dam spillway. They'll then construct a sandbag staircase on the hillside to allow easier access by engineers. Other corpsmembers continuing to assist at Chico's Silver Dollar fairgrounds, at the Chico airport and other locations. The sound right there must be awe-inspiring, or deafening, which ever you prefer. But in either case, it must sound simply fucking insane. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:25:19 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16682048_1252014738218965_5424670373177812340_n.jpg?oh=45049e12c85c10f03672524bb4f9a165&oe=59480C29 Greenwood corpsmembers clear brush near the main Oroville Dam spillway. They'll then construct a sandbag staircase on the hillside to allow easier access by engineers. Other corpsmembers continuing to assist at Chico's Silver Dollar fairgrounds, at the Chico airport and other locations. Someone needs to go back to chainsaw certification training. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:26:13 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
was hoping for some pics of the dredging work... or some new aerial shots... Oh well album updated with CA DWR's latest pics. Really just the one pic of the work at the Emergency spillway is of any significance. And Chokey already posted it. I was searching around looking for some views of the powerhouse area work being done. Looks like they created another staging area in the lot between the existing staging area and the powerhouse substation. https://youtu.be/8nqn-7NtqyI  Oroville Dam 2-15-2017 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:27:36 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What? Why do you get off easy? There's over 660000 people watching this. Tune in Sunday nite. It only takes a minute. Of course, then you drop into the middle of the conversation, have to back track, start catching up, then you notice it's 4 hours later and you have to get up in 3 more hours. You're doomed, ya know. It's like crack coated carmelcorn. It's already altering your conscience, and all you've done is post a plea against it worming it's way to the to core of your mind and taking over. Soon you'll realize you've been up 48 hours and the boss thinks you're a no call no show while your wife (or mother) is screaming at you while you pound the keyboard with bloody fingertips as you calculate the inches of rise against the inches of rain desperately paging back and forth from early page to page trying to understand the calculus of watershed vs impoundment ratios and who would be the most likely to order this disaster not knowing it's been a wet winter and just the start of the spring runoff with 7 major cracks in the bedrock funneling water into schist folds forcing them to spread hydraulically and wedge open even further in a geometric acceleration of horrendous proportions allowing the entire emergency spillway to completely tip over right down to the river bed exposing 200,000 innocent men, women and children to a massive wall of water filled with broken rock, trees, cars, buildings, and concrete in a titanic blender of incredible power destroying everything in its path down the river past Sacramento into the Bay and then in a towering wall of hurtling mud destroying the Golden Gate leaving nothing more than stubs of concrete that are swallowed up in the cataclysmic earthquake of California sinking into the Pacific. Nope. No mercy. Yer doomed. They will find your body slumped over the keyboard along with half a million others with your eyes literally fused to the screen. The survivors will split up your gear and inscribe your name on the monument facing the sea in Nevada. I spend 2 hours a day reading this thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:28:45 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. It's been stated in previous pages hat as the level drops, they're simply not capable of sustaining the same outflow rate. I'm just a dumb office geek, but I bet you can't make water flow out of a gate at the same rate if there's less pressure behind the water. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:29:30 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if I should be clapping and congratulations for an epic post.... or hitting you with 2 of Haldol, 50 of benadryl and 2 of ativan.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What? Why do you get off easy? There's over 660000 people watching this. Tune in Sunday nite. It only takes a minute. Of course, then you drop into the middle of the conversation, have to back track, start catching up, then you notice it's 4 hours later and you have to get up in 3 more hours. You're doomed, ya know. It's like crack coated carmelcorn. It's already altering your conscience, and all you've done is post a plea against it worming it's way to the to core of your mind and taking over. Soon you'll realize you've been up 48 hours and the boss thinks you're a no call no show while your wife (or mother) is screaming at you while you pound the keyboard with bloody fingertips as you calculate the inches of rise against the inches of rain desperately paging back and forth from early page to page trying to understand the calculus of watershed vs impoundment ratios and who would be the most likely to order this disaster not knowing it's been a wet winter and just the start of the spring runoff with 7 major cracks in the bedrock funneling water into schist folds forcing them to spread hydraulically and wedge open even further in a geometric acceleration of horrendous proportions allowing the entire emergency spillway to completely tip over right down to the river bed exposing 200,000 innocent men, women and children to a massive wall of water filled with broken rock, trees, cars, buildings, and concrete in a titanic blender of incredible power destroying everything in its path down the river past Sacramento into the Bay and then in a towering wall of hurtling mud destroying the Golden Gate leaving nothing more than stubs of concrete that are swallowed up in the cataclysmic earthquake of California sinking into the Pacific. Nope. No mercy. Yer doomed. They will find your body slumped over the keyboard along with half a million others with your eyes literally fused to the screen. The survivors will split up your gear and inscribe your name on the monument facing the sea in Nevada. Not sure if I should be clapping and congratulations for an epic post.... or hitting you with 2 of Haldol, 50 of benadryl and 2 of ativan.... I'm clapping! I've spent no less than 4 hours a night catching up on this thread! My wife just keeps getting upstairs "are you still reading that dam thread?" |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:30:16 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Het Profryan, are you still itchy? Take showers that are as hot as you can stand. You won't believe how good that feels when that hot water hits the affected area. It is addictive. I've found the real rough sandpaper is the most satisfying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:31:53 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been stated in previous pages hat as the level drops, they're simply not capable of sustaining the same outflow rate. I'm just a dumb office geek, but I bet you can't make water flow out of a gate at the same rate if there's less pressure behind the water. But the flow curves from the PDF show that the primary spillway is capable of +100k CFS down to ~850ft.  Attached FileThe only logical answer, that I'm aware of, is to reduce the erosion on the inflow side of the gates. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:32:40 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone needs to go back to chainsaw certification training. You haven't heard of the extra high sloping back cut? It's the newest thing. ETA: little deep on that face cut though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:34:15 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's from Georgia, it wouldn't have slowed him down more than a day or two... 
some of us have to do jobs and stuff....i can only hang out here like maybe 3 hrs a day or so |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:36:34 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the flow curves from the PDF show that the primary spillway is capable of +100k CFS down to ~850ft. http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/330018/6439c91eddf0be4edd2950162c3acba0-146954.JPG The only logical answer, that I'm aware of, is to reduce the erosion on the inflow side of the gates. Hell, the specs say they're capable of 250k+. They haven't come close to that this whole time. I suppose it's possible that they have a good reason. Especially given that it is clear they have made this choice intentionally. There're a lot of posts in this thread that say it's with malicious or self-serving intent. However, for that to be true, every qualified person near the thing would have to be duped or involved in the conspiracy. I'm not buying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:36:50 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What? Why do you get off easy? There's over 660000 people watching this. Tune in Sunday nite. It only takes a minute. Of course, then you drop into the middle of the conversation, have to back track, start catching up, then you notice it's 4 hours later and you have to get up in 3 more hours. You're doomed, ya know. It's like crack coated carmelcorn. It's already altering your conscience, and all you've done is post a plea against it worming it's way to the to core of your mind and taking over. Soon you'll realize you've been up 48 hours and the boss thinks you're a no call no show while your wife (or mother) is screaming at you while you pound the keyboard with bloody fingertips as you calculate the inches of rise against the inches of rain desperately paging back and forth from early page to page trying to understand the calculus of watershed vs impoundment ratios and who would be the most likely to order this disaster not knowing it's been a wet winter and just the start of the spring runoff with 7 major cracks in the bedrock funneling water into schist folds forcing them to spread hydraulically and wedge open even further in a geometric acceleration of horrendous proportions allowing the entire emergency spillway to completely tip over right down to the river bed exposing 200,000 innocent men, women and children to a massive wall of water filled with broken rock, trees, cars, buildings, and concrete in a titanic blender of incredible power destroying everything in its path down the river past Sacramento into the Bay and then in a towering wall of hurtling mud destroying the Golden Gate leaving nothing more than stubs of concrete that are swallowed up in the cataclysmic earthquake of California sinking into the Pacific. Nope. No mercy. Yer doomed. They will find your body slumped over the keyboard along with half a million others with your eyes literally fused to the screen. The survivors will split up your gear and inscribe your name on the monument facing the sea in Nevada. 
Would have scored higher but it ended just as it started to get interesting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:37:17 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
pic from yesterday showing why they have to slowdown release as water level drops. See that turbulence? that will pick up the rocks in the channel leading up to the gates... and it'll get carried through and down the spillway. They don't want that. Besides the potential damage and increased debris into the river bellow... there's the hole it would dig next to the spillway gates... http://i.imgur.com/joLi8bm.jpg I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. Water lives to eat. They built this dam to eat from right to left. Retard monkeys wanted to see what would happen if they shifted water flow all the way to the right. It is dangerous, wall off the espillway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:38:28 PM EST
[#17]
Double tap.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:40:53 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
some of us have to do jobs and stuff....i can only hang out here like maybe 3 hrs a day or so Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He's from Georgia, it wouldn't have slowed him down more than a day or two...
some of us have to do jobs and stuff....i can only hang out here like maybe 3 hrs a day or so 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:45:15 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. The inlet was level in 1968 at the completion ceremony. That hump and downslope into the gates now has been deposited there by the reservoir over the last 50 years. Another maintenance item that they should have addressed because it causes problems at the gate entry. Also, the flow cannot be maintained as the reservoir elevation drops. Obviously if there isn't enough elevation above the inlet the flow will drop because of head pressure. With a changing head pressure due to elevation and the change in opening size of the gates the flow will vary. I'm too lazy to calculate it using the known size of the gates. They also cannot maintain high flow as the elevation approaches the level of the bottom of the gates because of erosion in the bottom of the gate inlets. Finally, the gates are never "WFO" when they are flowing and the water is below the top of the gate opening. . The bottom of the gate is always below the surface of the water. You don't want floating debris like whole trees getting into the gates or being launched off the spillways. Also, the flow through the gate is directed into the spillway correctly without an air gap and variable level across the water surface going through the gate because the water has to separate around the individual gate piers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:46:03 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Double tap. 250k CFS is possible > 892'. Clearly they were throttling that flow with the gates to control damage to the spillway and down stream flooding. Remember that the curves shown are max flow rates for a given head height of the dam, and I would assume are based on the spillway gates being open to a certain "safe" level shy of wide open. Up until 901' the main spill way gates are able to control that flow rate below that curve based on how far open they are. At 901' we see the start of the uncontrolled flow over the espill that is additive then to whatever is flowing through the gates. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:46:40 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, the specs say they're capable of 250k+. They haven't come close to that this whole time. I suppose it's possible that they have a good reason. Especially given that it is clear they have made this choice intentionally. There're a lot of posts in this thread that say it's with malicious or self-serving intent. However, for that to be true, every qualified person near the thing would have to be duped or involved in the conspiracy. I'm not buying. At current river levels and the rest of the water coming into the flood plain, that much flow would wipe out Oraville and quite a few bridges and dikes further down stream. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:46:50 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it me or have we just mentioned the Corps of Engineers for the first time? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:49:36 PM EST
[#23]
or "ACE"
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:50:23 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At current river levels and the rest of the water coming into the flood plain, that much flow would wipe out Oraville and quite a few bridges and dikes further down stream. As I said, there are reasons (more likely than not) that the decisions which have been made have been made. The least likely are to manufacture a disaster, to promote a political goal, and complete and utter incompetence. The first one would never get enough support to be carried out and the second two have been happening at low levels behind the scenes for the last 50 years, but not there and not today. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:51:59 PM EST
[#25]
More crack caramel corn for me. Its hard to keep up with this legendary thread. I raise my ever-present glass of fine dark rum in ProFryan's general direction. Prost!
Diggin' the "inside" pics posted by everyone, thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:52:23 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, the specs say they're capable of 250k+. They haven't come close to that this whole time. I suppose it's possible that they have a good reason. Especially given that it is clear they have made this choice intentionally. There're a lot of posts in this thread that say it's with malicious or self-serving intent. However, for that to be true, every qualified person near the thing would have to be duped or involved in the conspiracy. I'm not buying. They can flow 250,000 CFS only with reservoir elevation at edit:895' or above, up to 300,000+ CFS around 917' elevation. This is purely because of increasing head pressure in the gate entry openings. The entire opening is well under water at 901' and any increase in elevation increases head pressure. Edit 895 feet not 901 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:56:01 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's normal and flow rates based on lake level for the main spillway date back to construction of the dam. They just have to slow the outflow rate (velocity) to avoid creating a problem as the lake level goes down. They went 95k outflow earlier today when the level got to 970. Based on a curve posted a page or two back they're a bit conservative, but can afford to be at 970 and the forecast rain levels for the next few days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The gates are eroding on the lake side/intake side? It's normal and flow rates based on lake level for the main spillway date back to construction of the dam. They just have to slow the outflow rate (velocity) to avoid creating a problem as the lake level goes down. They went 95k outflow earlier today when the level got to 970. Based on a curve posted a page or two back they're a bit conservative, but can afford to be at 970 and the forecast rain levels for the next few days. Shit they're already 69 feet over the espillway. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 11:58:05 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. I think there were some speculation that the flow was reduced due to eroding the inlet channel. Not sure this is a big deal. DWR stated they turned the flow down so they could resume work at the bottom of the spillway clearing debris so the river level leading back to the powerhouse could be reduced. The inlet channel seems to slope up towards the gates BTW. https://youtu.be/XZO_744b_Gs  Oroville Spillway |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:02:40 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess is that a ski jump at the current break in the spill way could be a temporary repair to the main spill way that would enable them to build a new spillway. I'd think that the time to construct a temporary jump would be shorter than the additional excavation and potential blasting work required for a complete new spillway. The other thing I was wondering was the auxiliary gates near the e-spill that were never finished. With modern equipment I wonder if those could be connected as a new diversion tunnel. The challenge there would of course be figure out how to do it if the lake levels are above the inlets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yah, I agree, that's probably what will actually happen. But how cool would it be to see that spillway launching 100k cfs off a ramp down to the river 400ft below. My guess is that a ski jump at the current break in the spill way could be a temporary repair to the main spill way that would enable them to build a new spillway. I'd think that the time to construct a temporary jump would be shorter than the additional excavation and potential blasting work required for a complete new spillway. The other thing I was wondering was the auxiliary gates near the e-spill that were never finished. With modern equipment I wonder if those could be connected as a new diversion tunnel. The challenge there would of course be figure out how to do it if the lake levels are above the inlets. Aux spillway lets you do whatever you want as you please without depending solely on the Espill or working in the spillway with the gates under a full head. Fuck that FBHO because it needs to be said |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:14:04 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting information. Were you involved with the tear down and relocation? That Krupp bucket wheel excavator system ended up at the Centralia, WA coal mine where it was used for about 25 years or more for pre-stripping coal seams. It was used in 2 different pit areas as I recall. I started work at the mine when it was in the second area and spent many an hour keeping it maintained and operating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some history of the dam The bucket wheel excavator (shown bottom right) was built by the company I worked for in the mid 60's. More history Interesting information. Were you involved with the tear down and relocation? That Krupp bucket wheel excavator system ended up at the Centralia, WA coal mine where it was used for about 25 years or more for pre-stripping coal seams. It was used in 2 different pit areas as I recall. I started work at the mine when it was in the second area and spent many an hour keeping it maintained and operating. Fucking ArfCom. Exceeding expectations, yet again.
@powderfinger @Jacketch |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:17:36 AM EST
[#31]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:19:32 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They can flow 250,000 CFS only with reservoir elevation at edit:895' or above, up to 300,000+ CFS around 917' elevation. This is purely because of increasing head pressure in the gate entry openings. The entire opening is well under water at 901' and any increase in elevation increases head pressure. Edit 895 feet not 901 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hell, the specs say they're capable of 250k+. They haven't come close to that this whole time. I suppose it's possible that they have a good reason. Especially given that it is clear they have made this choice intentionally. There're a lot of posts in this thread that say it's with malicious or self-serving intent. However, for that to be true, every qualified person near the thing would have to be duped or involved in the conspiracy. I'm not buying. They can flow 250,000 CFS only with reservoir elevation at edit:895' or above, up to 300,000+ CFS around 917' elevation. This is purely because of increasing head pressure in the gate entry openings. The entire opening is well under water at 901' and any increase in elevation increases head pressure. Edit 895 feet not 901 We saw what they thought was a good idea to do with that 250kcfs flow right after they "tested" that "auxiliary" spillway. Chimps jumping up and down angrily would have a better chance of saving this dam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:19:40 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The inlet was level in 1968 at the completion ceremony. That hump and downslope into the gates now has been deposited there by the reservoir over the last 50 years. Another maintenance item that they should have addressed because it causes problems at the gate entry. Also, the flow cannot be maintained as the reservoir elevation drops. Obviously if there isn't enough elevation above the inlet the flow will drop because of head pressure. With a changing head pressure due to elevation and the change in opening size of the gates the flow will vary. I'm too lazy to calculate it using the known size of the gates. They also cannot maintain high flow as the elevation approaches the level of the bottom of the gates because of erosion in the bottom of the gate inlets. Finally, the gates are never "WFO" when they are flowing and the water is below the top of the gate opening. . The bottom of the gate is always below the surface of the water. You don't want floating debris like whole trees getting into the gates or being launched off the spillways. Also, the flow through the gate is directed into the spillway correctly without an air gap and variable level across the water surface going through the gate because the water has to separate around the individual gate piers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. The inlet was level in 1968 at the completion ceremony. That hump and downslope into the gates now has been deposited there by the reservoir over the last 50 years. Another maintenance item that they should have addressed because it causes problems at the gate entry. Also, the flow cannot be maintained as the reservoir elevation drops. Obviously if there isn't enough elevation above the inlet the flow will drop because of head pressure. With a changing head pressure due to elevation and the change in opening size of the gates the flow will vary. I'm too lazy to calculate it using the known size of the gates. They also cannot maintain high flow as the elevation approaches the level of the bottom of the gates because of erosion in the bottom of the gate inlets. Finally, the gates are never "WFO" when they are flowing and the water is below the top of the gate opening. . The bottom of the gate is always below the surface of the water. You don't want floating debris like whole trees getting into the gates or being launched off the spillways. Also, the flow through the gate is directed into the spillway correctly without an air gap and variable level across the water surface going through the gate because the water has to separate around the individual gate piers. This "hump" ? 
Sure doesn't look like 'lake deposit to me. Remember that the water rarely get this high, and when it does it doesn't stay there for very long. And if you look carefully at the bottom of that spillway entrance channel, it sure looks like it slopes DOWN towards the gates. Compare that bottom plane of the channel to the flatness of the lake water, which is probably pretty level. Yes, there may be a little distortion coming from the camera elevation, and perspective, but not much. Again, use the water as a base plane and eveball from there. Just looks a little strange. There is another photo I saw earlier, taken on the ground, from the parking lot, looking across the dam towards the penstocks that really shows it off well, but I cannot find that photo now. ETA - Also look at the plane of the concrete spillway to the right of the gates. It clearly slopes down, and it appears to be a similar slope to the intake channel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:20:55 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there is not a dam thing wrong with the Espill as it sits. Build a new auxiliary spillway next to the hill so the original can be repaired Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First I would rip out the old Emergency Spillway. Then I'd dig/blast down ... to and then good bit past fresh non fractured bedrock... then re-pore the ogee(new term for me) weir all the way to the hill... maybe put another concrete tower there at the height of the dam 922... for the road to go over to access the parking lot. Then I'd finish out the down hill side into a real concrete spillway... putting the road as a long bridge over it... or maybe re-routing it so it's lake side of the weir... Build a new auxiliary spillway next to the hill so the original can be repaired  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:20:56 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16682048_1252014738218965_5424670373177812340_n.jpg?oh=45049e12c85c10f03672524bb4f9a165&oe=59480C29 Greenwood corpsmembers clear brush near the main Oroville Dam spillway. They'll then construct a sandbag staircase on the hillside to allow easier access by engineers. Other corpsmembers continuing to assist at Chico's Silver Dollar fairgrounds, at the Chico airport and other locations. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:23:59 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryDo they include marijuana testing as a part of employment conditons? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:25:15 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting information. Were you involved with the tear down and relocation? That Krupp bucket wheel excavator system ended up at the Centralia, WA coal mine where it was used for about 25 years or more for pre-stripping coal seams. It was used in 2 different pit areas as I recall. I started work at the mine when it was in the second area and spent many an hour keeping it maintained and operating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some history of the dam The bucket wheel excavator (shown bottom right) was built by the company I worked for in the mid 60's. More history Interesting information. Were you involved with the tear down and relocation? That Krupp bucket wheel excavator system ended up at the Centralia, WA coal mine where it was used for about 25 years or more for pre-stripping coal seams. It was used in 2 different pit areas as I recall. I started work at the mine when it was in the second area and spent many an hour keeping it maintained and operating. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:25:21 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This "hump" ? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/dc/f8/1adcf8ea0b8554d8c2fa4e7c13bfd20e.jpg Sure doesn't look like 'lake deposit to me. Remember that the water rarely get this high, and when it does it doesn't stay there for very long. And if you look carefully at the bottom of that spillway entrance channel, it sure looks like it slopes DOWN towards the gates. Compare that bottom plane of the channel to the flatness of the lake water, which is probably pretty level. Yes, there may be a little distortion coming from the camera elevation, and perspective, but not much. Again, use the water as a base plane and eveball from there. Just looks a little strange. There is another photo I saw earlier, taken on the ground, from the parking lot, looking across the dam towards the penstocks that really shows it off well, but I cannot find that photo now. Picture from the1968 dedication ceremony: 
It's flat all the way to the main channel. Or it was when they built the inlet. If you zoom way in you can see Reagan's helicopter sitting on the spillway inlet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:29:18 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This "hump" ? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/dc/f8/1adcf8ea0b8554d8c2fa4e7c13bfd20e.jpg Sure doesn't look like 'lake deposit to me. Remember that the water rarely get this high, and when it does it doesn't stay there for very long. And if you look carefully at the bottom of that spillway entrance channel, it sure looks like it slopes DOWN towards the gates. Compare that bottom plane of the channel to the flatness of the lake water, which is probably pretty level. Yes, there may be a little distortion coming from the camera elevation, and perspective, but not much. Again, use the water as a base plane and eveball from there. Just looks a little strange. There is another photo I saw earlier, taken on the ground, from the parking lot, looking across the dam towards the penstocks that really shows it off well, but I cannot find that photo now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I brought this up about 150 pages ago. The shape of that inlet channel does not make any sense to me. The outer lip of the inlet channel, (the left hand end in this pic, out of sight) is at about 862 ft El. And then the bottom of the channel slopes DOWN to the bottom of the gates at 813 ft El. That turbulence looks like a erosion horseshoe eating its way to the left. WHY? I would assume that the inlet to the gates would be a funnel shape to gradually accelerate the water flow to minimize turbulence, cavitation and erosion. As in a gradual UPSLOPE to the bottom of the gates. but what do I know, I'm just a dumb truck driver. Can some of the engineering types please clarify this to me. Additionally, according to the design docs, 'The Book of Dams', looking at the flow curve for the control gates, El. flow 870 175,000 cfs 860 135,000 850 90,000 840 55,000 830 25,000 But here they are cutting back on the flow, 'to save the channel', from 100,000 already? With the level at ~865 it should be able to sustain that earlier 100,000 rate easily. The inlet was level in 1968 at the completion ceremony. That hump and downslope into the gates now has been deposited there by the reservoir over the last 50 years. Another maintenance item that they should have addressed because it causes problems at the gate entry. Also, the flow cannot be maintained as the reservoir elevation drops. Obviously if there isn't enough elevation above the inlet the flow will drop because of head pressure. With a changing head pressure due to elevation and the change in opening size of the gates the flow will vary. I'm too lazy to calculate it using the known size of the gates. They also cannot maintain high flow as the elevation approaches the level of the bottom of the gates because of erosion in the bottom of the gate inlets. Finally, the gates are never "WFO" when they are flowing and the water is below the top of the gate opening. . The bottom of the gate is always below the surface of the water. You don't want floating debris like whole trees getting into the gates or being launched off the spillways. Also, the flow through the gate is directed into the spillway correctly without an air gap and variable level across the water surface going through the gate because the water has to separate around the individual gate piers. This "hump" ? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/dc/f8/1adcf8ea0b8554d8c2fa4e7c13bfd20e.jpg Sure doesn't look like 'lake deposit to me. Remember that the water rarely get this high, and when it does it doesn't stay there for very long. And if you look carefully at the bottom of that spillway entrance channel, it sure looks like it slopes DOWN towards the gates. Compare that bottom plane of the channel to the flatness of the lake water, which is probably pretty level. Yes, there may be a little distortion coming from the camera elevation, and perspective, but not much. Again, use the water as a base plane and eveball from there. Just looks a little strange. There is another photo I saw earlier, taken on the ground, from the parking lot, looking across the dam towards the penstocks that really shows it off well, but I cannot find that photo now. Looking at that picture, you can envision the shit hitting the fan when they decide they have to use the main spillway. That fucking thing was made to run some water. Now, it is situation normal. Nothing to see here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:33:48 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess is that a ski jump at the current break in the spill way could be a temporary repair to the main spill way that would enable them to build a new spillway. I'd think that the time to construct a temporary jump would be shorter than the additional excavation and potential blasting work required for a complete new spillway. The other thing I was wondering was the auxiliary gates near the e-spill that were never finished. With modern equipment I wonder if those could be connected as a new diversion tunnel. The challenge there would of course be figure out how to do it if the lake levels are above the inlets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:40:14 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This "hump" ? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/dc/f8/1adcf8ea0b8554d8c2fa4e7c13bfd20e.jpg Sure doesn't look like 'lake deposit to me. Remember that the water rarely get this high, and when it does it doesn't stay there for very long. And if you look carefully at the bottom of that spillway entrance channel, it sure looks like it slopes DOWN towards the gates. Compare that bottom plane of the channel to the flatness of the lake water, which is probably pretty level. Yes, there may be a little distortion coming from the camera elevation, and perspective, but not much. Again, use the water as a base plane and eveball from there. Just looks a little strange. There is another photo I saw earlier, taken on the ground, from the parking lot, looking across the dam towards the penstocks that really shows it off well, but I cannot find that photo now. ETA - Also look at the plane of the concrete spillway to the right of the gates. It clearly slopes down, and it appears to be a similar slope to the intake channel. Impressive picture! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:44:46 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, If you are referring to the submerged inlets they were for another set of turbines or power plant feed. IIRC they ran into unsuitable conditions to finish them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My guess is that a ski jump at the current break in the spill way could be a temporary repair to the main spill way that would enable them to build a new spillway. I'd think that the time to construct a temporary jump would be shorter than the additional excavation and potential blasting work required for a complete new spillway. The other thing I was wondering was the auxiliary gates near the e-spill that were never finished. With modern equipment I wonder if those could be connected as a new diversion tunnel. The challenge there would of course be figure out how to do it if the lake levels are above the inlets. A post completion project that pulled the ejection handles a pile of money in. Conclusions? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:45:32 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it me or have we just mentioned the Corps of Engineers for the first time? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Various articles dated before the recent events. The 850 mark is where they are required, not that they have been following it, to release water. Here is one. http://fox40.com/2016/03/24/water-conservation-measures-remain-in-place-despite-major-reservoir-releases/ After months of rain on and off, the Army Corps of Engineers began releasing water from the Oroville Dam Thursday morning, as it hit the threshold of 850 feet above sea level, at which point the lake becomes a flooding hazard. This article is sort of funny/ironic/sad. It is from March 2016 and everyone was excited that the spillway was being used for the first time in 5 years. They were beaming that water was flowing. Now not so much. But the article does mention 84% full is when they are required to open the gates. http://www.abc10.com/news/local/california/oroville-dam-releasing-water-over-spillway-for-first-time-in-five-years/101137863 Is it me or have we just mentioned the Corps of Engineers for the first time? They have been mentioned before, mainly in the context of DWR ignoring everything they recommended. I believe one of the engineers or government officials said something like the Army Corp has a 30% stake in the dam, at least when it comes to being responsible for funding. So they are there but have no real control over it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 12:51:29 AM EST
[#44]
Looks like they are working on that corner of the weir nearest the parking lot.
ETA: Might even be at the bend in the road where they filled in with the bags of rocks dropped by helo's. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 1:04:33 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spend 2 hours a day reading this thread. I'm wondering how the rest of GD is doing, I've been living in here for the last week. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 1:06:47 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone needs to go back to chainsaw certification training. I worked with a CI and a CDF FCC to come up with a chainsaw safety class for the CCC's in 1980. Holy fuck, no one wanted to help out, but when we did the first presentation all of the "experts" came crawling out of the woodwork.
There never was chainsaw certification training when I was in, the CDF FCS's would pick the guys who could hump a chainsaw and fuel pack without falling out of the "forced marches" we did. I got to drop old growth redwoods that had burned (one was still on fire, it spewed embers the entire time I was cutting it) and were a danger to roads or to the crews. All because a couple of old school dope growers got into a fight over water.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 1:07:40 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They have 2 or 3 dozen mentions, 3 or 4 by me. Mostly like "ACOE" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it me or have we just mentioned the Corps of Engineers for the first time? Or COE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 1:08:19 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there were some speculation that the flow was reduced due to eroding the inlet channel. Not sure this is a big deal. DWR stated they turned the flow down so they could resume work at the bottom of the spillway clearing debris so the river level leading back to the powerhouse could be reduced. The inlet channel seems to slope up towards the gates BTW. https://youtu.be/XZO_744b_Gs  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZO_744b_GsSomeone mentioned many pages back, not sure where, that intake is not currently in use. I don't remember if it was a diversion tunnel or what but it's not part of the current spillway or hydroelectric intake. ETA: I don't know which is true. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 1:09:37 AM EST
[#49]
Found the official .gov source backing up what I was saying on page 6 that Emergency Spillways are generally "Single Use Items" requiring a lot of rebuilding if used. That's back before they were tossing around the idea of actually using it intentionally.
Emergency spillways may be used to obtain a high degree of hydrologic safety with minimal additional cost. Because of their infrequent use, it is acceptable for them to sustain significant damage when used and they may be designed with lower structural standards than those used for auxiliary spillways.
An emergency spillway may be advisable to accommodate flows resulting from misoperation or malfunction of other spillways and outlet works. Generally, they are sized to accommodate a flood smaller than the IDF. The crest of an emergency spillway should be set above the normal maximum water surface (attained when accommodating the IDF) so it will not overflow as a result of reservoir setup and wave action. The design of an emergency spillway should be subject to the following limitations: • The structural integrity of the dam should not be jeopardized by spillway operation. Large conservation storage volumes should not be lost as a result of degradation of the crest during operation. The effects of a downstream flood resulting from uncontrolled release of reservoir storage should not be greater than the flood caused by the IDF without the dam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2017 1:09:38 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. It's not anchored in place in any way. Even if the rock underneath it is fine non fractured rock... it's just sitting there on top of it. So it can and would be shifted off and breached if it were used for any decent amount of water. It needs to go deep and get keyed into the good rock down there... and you aren't getting down there without removing the old one first. Somewhere, I believe in the Book of Dams, I read that keying the structure is actually the wrong way to build an Ogee weir. It applies forces to a prebuilt failure point even though logic says it would be ok. Once again, no need to tear out existing weir, it is fine until it is subjected to it's designed failure point, which I believe is 918 feet. Hopefully the onsite people do not make it impervious, I would not want to see Oroville Dam topped. I am not saying a temporary spillway at all, I am saying a true Auxiliary Spillway, connected to the lake at whatever depth the familiar Engineers would determine best. You could complete its construction in a year if you had your shit together and put in the new Gatehouse with everything ready for the dry season to excavate the connection to the lake similar to the existing spillway. I promise you others have this idea and are going to push it. The 1965 spillway race needs almost complete replacement, now that it has a monster hole it will require way more work than simply repairing it. Are they going to put up a batch plant in the spillway and just start conveying concrete and RipRap into the Oroville Spillway Canyon that was created? I don't think they are prepared to use the California concrete plants yearly output quota of into that hole. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
