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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:24:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FIFY Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It would have been much more accurate if they showed how the Sioux attacked the white Aside from any white and indian thing, the truth is that humans have a history of violence. All primitives are violent. The norm for tribal society is war, rape, mass murder, enslavement. Some are better at it than others. Comanche hid from Apaches before they adopted the horse, and that switched things up. If not for the horse, Comanches were be a tribe most would have never heard of, and those who had would think of them as peaceful people just trying to survive the Apache. Manifest Destiny, and all that. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:25:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Put that in your book... |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:26:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FIFY |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:30:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The scene in which Ten Bears produces the Spanish helmet would have been accurate if they were Comanche, which, of course, they weren't. Dunbar's narrating of how hard the Pawnee were on the Sioux was also accurate, but 180 degrees off from the truth. We were the penultimate conquerors of the Northern Great Plains, roaring out of the Minnesota forests and gobbling up territory as we expanded westward. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:32:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would have been much more accurate if they showed how the Sioux attacked the white settlers and raped and butchered them all, and then adopted the white girl into the tribe, rather than show them rescuing her after she survived an attack by the Pawnee. Aside from any white and indian thing, the truth is that humans have a history of violence. All primitives are violent. The norm for tribal society is war, rape, mass murder, enslavement. Some are better at it than others. Comanche hid from Apaches before they adopted the horse, and that switched things up. If not for the horse, Comanches were be a tribe most would have never heard of, and those who had would think of them as peaceful people just trying to survive the Apache.  A Great Gap (Director's Cut) |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:38:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Kicking Bird" will always be Edgar K. B. Montrose, to me. Red Green fans will know.  |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:44:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Shouldn't leave your hat on the prairie
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:45:28 PM EDT
[#8]
I disagree with the idea that the natives in this movie were treated with Noble Savage glorification. They were humanized, and shown to be complex, difficult people to understand - from his perspective and our own. The Pawnee, also natives, were not shown as noble - they were characterized as much more violent and less human, even tho on the surface they shared almost everything with the Lakota people. And, the Lakota were shown to be just as apt to engage in violence, theft, intolerance - right up until Dunbar mystifies them and frustrates them. They both, as sides used to treating each other with hostility and contempt, decide to try to understand one another - with good and sometimes bad outcomes. That's not Hollywood treatment, in a sense. It does not blame whitey, or cast the natives as victims - they have equal screen time doing bad shit to others. What it does is show the conflict of clashing cultures and how sometimes, because of two extraordinary people's curiosity, a peace and understanding can exist - something that's actually happened in this world, many times, and thankfully so.
To see this as SJW bullshit is really missing the entire point of the movie, and is a bit of selective viewing with your bias on. Sure, there's some liberal glasses engaged, but it's not fair to categorize the theme of the movie as preachy. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 1:46:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell yes. Dynomite! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Kicking Bird" will always be Edgar K. B. Montrose, to me. Red Green fans will know.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:10:28 PM EDT
[#10]
I used to enjoy till it was pointed out that was anti-white and the real Indians were nothing like they portrayed.
From Mark Twain: Mark Twain: The Noble Red Man Article about the Commanches: How Comanche Indians butchered babies, roasted enemies alive and would ride 1,000 miles to wipe out one family |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:16:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone was speaking in the female dialect, since they were taught the language by Doris Leader Charge. She was a Lakota language professor at Sinte Gleska University, and was in the film as the wife of Ten Bears.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr-jackHWCwQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They say the real Lakota laughed in the movie theater during the screening at some of the wrong native language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr-jackHWCwI always enjoy the movie. Great scenery, music, and story. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:20:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Classic!
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:21:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How could a language professor make a mistake like that? I always enjoy the movie. Great scenery, music, and story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They say the real Lakota laughed in the movie theater during the screening at some of the wrong native language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr-jackHWCwI always enjoy the movie. Great scenery, music, and story. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:21:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're right. It's better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's no Last of the Mohicans... It's better. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:26:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How could a language professor make a mistake like that? I always enjoy the movie. Great scenery, music, and story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They say the real Lakota laughed in the movie theater during the screening at some of the wrong native language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr-jackHWCwI always enjoy the movie. Great scenery, music, and story. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:28:22 PM EDT
[#16]
He was also great in the Postman and Waterworld
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:29:27 PM EDT
[#17]
I was 8 or 9 maybe and sat through the entire movie in the theater with my grandma and grandpa, actually remember enjoying the movie quite a bit. I have a 9 year old at home, I don't think she could pull of the same feat.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:35:12 PM EDT
[#18]
It was OK, but no Jeremiah Johnson. Did Costner eat even one Indian's liver?
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:40:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Good trade.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:53:08 PM EDT
[#20]
A good portion of the movie was filmed right here. It was quite the "to-do" when they were here filming.
Costner liked the area so much he was going to open a casino near Deadwood but alas, it died on the vine.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:57:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m betting that it was easier and faster to have them all speaking the same, since 99% of the audience wouldn’t catch it, anyway. I certainly didn’t but I can’t speak Lakota, either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They say the real Lakota laughed in the movie theater during the screening at some of the wrong native language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr-jackHWCwI always enjoy the movie. Great scenery, music, and story. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 2:58:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree with the idea that the natives in this movie were treated with Noble Savage glorification. They were humanized, and shown to be complex, difficult people to understand - from his perspective and our own. The Pawnee, also natives, were not shown as noble - they were characterized as much more violent and less human, even tho on the surface they shared almost everything with the Lakota people. And, the Lakota were shown to be just as apt to engage in violence, theft, intolerance - right up until Dunbar mystifies them and frustrates them. They both, as sides used to treating each other with hostility and contempt, decide to try to understand one another - with good and sometimes bad outcomes. That's not Hollywood treatment, in a sense. It does not blame whitey, or cast the natives as victims - they have equal screen time doing bad shit to others. What it does is show the conflict of clashing cultures and how sometimes, because of two extraordinary people's curiosity, a peace and understanding can exist - something that's actually happened in this world, many times, and thankfully so. To see this as SJW bullshit is really missing the entire point of the movie, and is a bit of selective viewing with your bias on. Sure, there's some liberal glasses engaged, but it's not fair to categorize the theme of the movie as preachy. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 3:02:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Fort Sedgewick Deleted Scene. Now you know why they didn't re-supplied by the crazy major.
 Dances With Wolves Fort Sedgewick Deleted Scene |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 3:08:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Folks back east wonder why he doesn't write. The rest was too much hair spray and touchy-feely for the Plains in those days. Catlin wrote that plains warriors he observed ate lightly during the day. It was because they did not know from one waking minute to the next if they'd be in the fight of their lives...a full stomach makes you slow. Attackers could be from an outward raiding party or from one inside their own tribe. He saw two tribesmen fight to the death over an insulting comment about a warrior's portrait he'd just painted. That level of violence. Must have been rough to be on point your whole life. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 3:10:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was also great in the Postman and Waterworld |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 3:15:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree with the idea that the natives in this movie were treated with Noble Savage glorification. They were humanized, and shown to be complex, difficult people to understand - from his perspective and our own. The Pawnee, also natives, were not shown as noble - they were characterized as much more violent and less human, even tho on the surface they shared almost everything with the Lakota people. And, the Lakota were shown to be just as apt to engage in violence, theft, intolerance - right up until Dunbar mystifies them and frustrates them. They both, as sides used to treating each other with hostility and contempt, decide to try to understand one another - with good and sometimes bad outcomes. That's not Hollywood treatment, in a sense. It does not blame whitey, or cast the natives as victims - they have equal screen time doing bad shit to others. What it does is show the conflict of clashing cultures and how sometimes, because of two extraordinary people's curiosity, a peace and understanding can exist - something that's actually happened in this world, many times, and thankfully so. To see this as SJW bullshit is really missing the entire point of the movie, and is a bit of selective viewing with your bias on. Sure, there's some liberal glasses engaged, but it's not fair to categorize the theme of the movie as preachy. And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. 
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Posted: 7/2/2019 3:32:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That prairie pilot guy and the crazy post commander who shot himself (after he pissed himself) were likely the only realistic characters in the whole film. The scene where Kicking Bird lays down to sleep, feels his bed uncomfortable and finds the cause is was a child's corn husk doll was also a nice touch. That one is universal. The rest was too much hair spray and touchy-feely for the Plains in those days. Catlin wrote that plains warriors he observed ate lightly during the day. It was because they did not know from one waking minute to the next if they'd be in the fight of their lives...a full stomach makes you slow. Attackers could be from an outward raiding party or from one inside their own tribe. He saw two tribesmen fight to the death over an insulting comment about a warrior's portrait he'd just painted. That level of violence. Must have been rough to be on point your whole life. 
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Posted: 7/2/2019 3:42:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rest was too much hair spray and touchy-feely for the Plains in those days. Catlin wrote that plains warriors he observed ate lightly during the day. It was because they did not know from one waking minute to the next if they'd be in the fight of their lives...a full stomach makes you slow. Attackers could be from an outward raiding party or from one inside their own tribe. He saw two tribesmen fight to the death over an insulting comment about a warrior's portrait he'd just painted. That level of violence. Must have been rough to be on point your whole life. Just think about how you'd hold a society together for generations with that level of violence and day-to-day trauma. Probably wasn't a very sustainable model for a region. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 4:56:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've only seen it once but didn't care much for it Costner is too much the apologist for my tastes, I prefer actual history to stuff like "Dances." If you're interested, the 1880 museum near Murdo SD has a lot of props and artifacts used in that movie. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:00:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Too idealized a portrayal of Mr. Lo’s lifestyle.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:09:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great ending scene. 
"Do you see that I am your friend?" "Can you see that you'll always be my friend?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_nhvO8stg |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:17:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Agreed, enjoyed this one also
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:22:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. https://media.tenor.com/images/038182962e70146bc83a6ce2b64ce8b0/tenor.gif |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:25:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Costner was not in Major League. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. https://media.tenor.com/images/038182962e70146bc83a6ce2b64ce8b0/tenor.gif |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:28:20 PM EDT
[#35]
We own a copy of the disc, and still watch it when it's on the tube.
One of our favorite movies, regardless of how it's spun years later. I thought the Indians / Sioux were presented very well, instead of the Lone Ranger treatment years ago. I've often wondered how the Tonto actor kept a straight face. I'm far from an expert on native Americans, though. The movie is enjoyable. I've called bison 'tatonka' ever since. LOL |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 5:33:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before tatonka |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 6:16:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He wasn’t in ‘Mr. 3000’, either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. https://media.tenor.com/images/038182962e70146bc83a6ce2b64ce8b0/tenor.gif |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 6:39:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. https://media.tenor.com/images/038182962e70146bc83a6ce2b64ce8b0/tenor.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I disagree with the idea that the natives in this movie were treated with Noble Savage glorification. They were humanized, and shown to be complex, difficult people to understand - from his perspective and our own. The Pawnee, also natives, were not shown as noble - they were characterized as much more violent and less human, even tho on the surface they shared almost everything with the Lakota people. And, the Lakota were shown to be just as apt to engage in violence, theft, intolerance - right up until Dunbar mystifies them and frustrates them. They both, as sides used to treating each other with hostility and contempt, decide to try to understand one another - with good and sometimes bad outcomes. That's not Hollywood treatment, in a sense. It does not blame whitey, or cast the natives as victims - they have equal screen time doing bad shit to others. What it does is show the conflict of clashing cultures and how sometimes, because of two extraordinary people's curiosity, a peace and understanding can exist - something that's actually happened in this world, many times, and thankfully so. To see this as SJW bullshit is really missing the entire point of the movie, and is a bit of selective viewing with your bias on. Sure, there's some liberal glasses engaged, but it's not fair to categorize the theme of the movie as preachy. And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. https://media.tenor.com/images/038182962e70146bc83a6ce2b64ce8b0/tenor.gif |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 7:00:18 PM EDT
[#39]
The Natural! Damn, that's a good movie.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 7:03:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had a big old boner for Stands With Fists. Dated a girl that looked like her, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Awesome movie, even better after I just found out Standing with Fists was not Jane Fonda. For some crazy reason I always thought it was Jane Fonda. Now that I know I clearly see I was wrong for ever thinking it. Dated a girl that looked like her, too. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 7:10:31 PM EDT
[#41]
I‘ve enjoyed watching KC movies. Dances with Wolves is my favorite along with Wyatt Earp and Open Range. JFK, Field Of Dreams, 13 Days and The New Daughter were good.
I even liked Message in a Bottle.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 7:15:28 PM EDT
[#42]
I've always loved the movie. Don't know if everyone knows, but the director's (extended) version is available and is a full hour longer, so it is four hours total. Adds a lot to the story IMO.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 7:42:23 PM EDT
[#43]
I’m not a fan of Costner at all, but “Open Range” I can actually get through. That was a well done movie.
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Posted: 7/2/2019 8:11:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Don Dunbar
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Posted: 7/2/2019 8:29:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would have been much more accurate if they showed how the Sioux attacked the white settlers and raped and butchered them all, and then adopted the white girl into the tribe, rather than show them rescuing her after she survived an attack by the Pawnee. Aside from any white and indian thing, the truth is that humans have a history of violence. All primitives are violent. The norm for tribal society is war, rape, mass murder, enslavement. Some are better at it than others. Comanche hid from Apaches before they adopted the horse, and that switched things up. If not for the horse, Comanches were be a tribe most would have never heard of, and those who had would think of them as peaceful people just trying to survive the Apache. Bonobos, Gorillas and Orangutans did not. |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 8:34:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don Dunbar |
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Posted: 7/2/2019 8:45:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Was a pretty good movie, but 'Good Fellas' should have won best picture Oscar that year... not DWW.
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Posted: 7/3/2019 12:01:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always really enjoy it when it comes on. That said, I fast forward past the Wolf shooting scene...tears me up like a little school girl every time. 
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Posted: 7/3/2019 12:04:10 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dumb.... Bear! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don Dunbar |
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Posted: 7/3/2019 12:20:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. And KC starred in the greatest baseball movie ever. Yeah waterword was tarded, oh well. https://media.tenor.com/images/038182962e70146bc83a6ce2b64ce8b0/tenor.gif |
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