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Posted: 1/21/2022 5:31:33 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm glad I bought my truck when I did. Prices today are fucking stupid. Of course, I could have gotten seriously stupid money selling the Tacoma I had.
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Posted: 1/21/2022 5:37:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Need or want? It’s more want than a need. If you NEED a car…you don’t have to play new car dealer schemes… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They're charging higher prices because they can. Inventory is non-existent and people still need cars. I totalled my 4Runner and I'm stuck buying in this market. I want another 4Runner. Same year, color, trim package, mileage as my old one now costs $14k more than what I paid 2 year ago. And yep, I'm buying used. Need or want? It’s more want than a need. If you NEED a car…you don’t have to play new car dealer schemes… I definitely need transportation. I don't need a new car with a premium attached to it. I was talking about used cars. I don't buy new cars as a rule. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 5:43:37 PM EDT
[#3]
For those who know, how are dealerships handling "test drives" these days?
Let's say you are interested in a make/model of new 2022 car that is currently being built (chip shutdowns not withstanding) but there are none on anyone's lots. How do you even know you want the car without test driving it? And if there are none on the lots to test drive, how do you even seriously consider buying one sight unseen? Are the dealers just doing the whole "put a thousand bucks down, we'll order it, you test drive it when it comes in, and if you want it you buy it if not walk away"? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 5:53:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess if people stop driving cars that could happen. Choppers are a luxury item. Regular cars and trucks are appliances that wear out. Just wait for the price increases that are coming. Suppliers are getting hammered with huge cost increases that have not been passed to the OEMs yet. More info on the cost increases? Is it for everything (steel, parts, etc) or just specific items? Are most suppliers locked into a fixed price contract for X amount of time, or X number of parts? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 6:14:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More info on the cost increases? Is it for everything (steel, parts, etc) or just specific items? Are most suppliers locked into a fixed price contract for X amount of time, or X number of parts? I've been shopping new Rams in the last couple of months and several options have jumped a few hundred $ in just that time. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 6:43:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 50% markups make up for a lot of pissed off customers as oppossed to truding along at 5% mark ups. If your normal net margins are 5% and you are able to jack prices by 50% when the market conditions allow it and increase your net margins to ~55%, you can bring forward an entire decade's worth of profit into one year. This is true..IF demand remains the same in the face of a 50% increase in markup over baseline. But the supply-demand curve is a thing. When markup increased this much, the demand is going to drop. Precipitously. Whether car dealers can thrive or even survive shifting from a higher volume/lower markup to a lower volume/higher markup strategy remains to be seen. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 7:03:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Dealers aren't out of control, customers are. There are idiots paying this much.
The best part of all of this is that in the you can pick only two of "cheaper, good quality, and now" factors, these customers are overpaying for problem vehicles because crap parts went into more vehicles due to the supply shortages that normally would have been rejected. So they get more expensive, lower quality - but at least they got it now! |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 7:21:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guys in that video are fucking terrible. Made it 20 seconds  Those guys are awesome. Especially Jeremiah. Watch every video they do. Of course I am not an angry 75 year old so maybe that is the reason I enjoy them? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 7:59:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you tried to do that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are cars really selling at these inflated prices? Why wouldn't you just buy a used beater and wait the market out. If your willing to pay 60k over more, you could buy a pretty damn nice used truck. Have you tried to do that? Doing that now, driving my same old beater jeep, banking cash, and when the lots are full again and sales are dying, walk in and wave some cash around. 
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:04:32 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:10:57 PM EDT
[#11]
 My dad owns a dealership! |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:12:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CTD is still in business. People wont remember, or they are paying what they are asking I buy stuff from lots of places, and CTD sure as heck ain't one of them. I am sure there are others here. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:13:56 PM EDT
[#13]
So if you order from the manufacturer website do the dealers still tack in market adjustment when it arrives? I realize it would take forever to arrive.
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:18:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is at a podunk dealer in Berwick PA. 25K over sticker. "Sale." https://i.postimg.cc/qBxvJkYW/PXL-20220116-151653512.jpg 
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:22:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Dealers are just the middleman…..we need to move away from the antiquated setup of needing to go through one and have direct order and deliver from manufacturers. They can have service centers instead.
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:23:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who know, how are dealerships handling "test drives" these days? Let's say you are interested in a make/model of new 2022 car that is currently being built (chip shutdowns not withstanding) but there are none on anyone's lots. How do you even know you want the car without test driving it? And if there are none on the lots to test drive, how do you even seriously consider buying one sight unseen? Are the dealers just doing the whole "put a thousand bucks down, we'll order it, you test drive it when it comes in, and if you want it you buy it if not walk away"? The only Venza I could find was 2 hours away. When I happened to be there for other reasons, they had it hidden away for someone but they did let me test drive. I’d have bought it but it had about 7000 miles and I wanted to hold out for a new one. When one hit the local lot with the trim level and color I was looking for, I bought it almost sight unseen. Test drive around the block and then signed the papers. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:42:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you have new construction, the contract is going to be based on estimates of materials, etc. and will have a clause that gives the builder and the buyer the option to cancel the contract if those change. If you were, say having a 150K pool built or a 250K garage built, or a 750K home built- And a bunch of materials become unavailable, substitute materials are far more expensive, and materials that are in stock have doubled or more in price, and their labor and their contractors’ labor half half again or doubled in price- And their pool completion costs have gone from 90K to 135K, or their garage completion costs have gone from 150K to 230K, and their home completion costs have gone from 420K to 700K- All based on labor, materials, etc. they can’t really complete the job for a profit. Unlike a dealership- the cost of the equivalent of the car on their lot to sell to you has gone up drastically. In the dealership case, they are not paying any more money for the vehicles than they were before. But they want you to pay more and increase their profit per vehicle. I am willing to pay - in the case of a new, short supply, highly sought after, etc. - the MRSP determined by the maker, which has appropriate dealership profit built in. And have done so on one occasion. I will not pay above that. Others are free to do so if they wish. And I am free to never give them business again. What I also find hilarious- Is that the circle of people I know with very high earnings are not apt to run out and do so either and have also PNGd various dealers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was reading a story about the new home market locally. Builders are asking for 100k more than they signed contracts for and are cancelling the contracts if they don't agree. When you have new construction, the contract is going to be based on estimates of materials, etc. and will have a clause that gives the builder and the buyer the option to cancel the contract if those change. If you were, say having a 150K pool built or a 250K garage built, or a 750K home built- And a bunch of materials become unavailable, substitute materials are far more expensive, and materials that are in stock have doubled or more in price, and their labor and their contractors’ labor half half again or doubled in price- And their pool completion costs have gone from 90K to 135K, or their garage completion costs have gone from 150K to 230K, and their home completion costs have gone from 420K to 700K- All based on labor, materials, etc. they can’t really complete the job for a profit. Unlike a dealership- the cost of the equivalent of the car on their lot to sell to you has gone up drastically. In the dealership case, they are not paying any more money for the vehicles than they were before. But they want you to pay more and increase their profit per vehicle. I am willing to pay - in the case of a new, short supply, highly sought after, etc. - the MRSP determined by the maker, which has appropriate dealership profit built in. And have done so on one occasion. I will not pay above that. Others are free to do so if they wish. And I am free to never give them business again. What I also find hilarious- Is that the circle of people I know with very high earnings are not apt to run out and do so either and have also PNGd various dealers. Higher prices in times like these ensure that people who really need a car right now (got in a wreck for example) can find one. They accomplish this by encouraging guys like you who just want another toy to hold off. Nothing to get upset about. It’s just simple market economics at work. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:47:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a local dealer who I will never visit again. Have bought several cars from them over the years. They changed ownership 3 years ago and are now asking insane prices for used beaters and ludicrous prices for new cars. We're talking $27k for a 2014 honda civic with 200k miles sort of pricing. $80k base model bronco pricing. The other dealers in the area are doing 10-15% market adjustment. Not 200%. Do they really think people won't remember? They probably watched a few election cycles and figure most will forget. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:49:54 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:50:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Capitalism , how does it work?
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:53:16 PM EDT
[#21]
paying 53k for a loaded challenger I guess I'm lucky
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:58:08 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm glad I am happy with my 20 year old Toyotas. Should get me through this crap.
I can understand it from a dealer perspective. They need to make on one car what they did on 5. Kind of reminds me of Atlas Shrugged. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:01:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are cars really selling at these inflated prices? Why wouldn't you just buy a used beater and wait the market out. If your willing to pay 60k over more, you could buy a pretty damn nice used truck. Yes. My dealer has 4 or 5 new cars left. Everything goes out the door $3-10k over MSRP and we can't keep them in stock. Beaters are crazy expensive. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:03:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is at a podunk dealer in Berwick PA. 25K over sticker. "Sale."  Quality looking price tag too... |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Now is a really crappy time to be car shopping.
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:14:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One day this will bite them in the ass along with all the other companies. We can then sit back and laugh. I'm all for making a fair profit on something, but some of this shit is just no right. How will that happen? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:19:52 PM EDT
[#27]
GT500 that was in my dealership last week...
MSRP 78K Sold for 103K |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:22:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Price gouging is a myth. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is this not considered price gouging? Don't price gouging laws make it illegal to charge "unreasonable prices for essential goods and services" during times of emergency? And hasn't the government been howling at the moon since Covid hit that this is an emergency? Price gouging is a myth. It's not when you are required to use a third party to order the vehicle you want. It's 2022, you should be able to just call up a Ford rep, order what you want at the current MSRP plus delivery, and get on the list. Dealers in the middle can turn it into a skim fest and you have to call all over to see who is going to fuck you the least. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:23:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not when you are required to use a third party to order the vehicle you want. It's 2022, you should be able to just call up a Ford rep, order what you want at the current MSRP plus delivery, and get on the list. Dealers in the middle can turn it into a skim fest and you have to call all over to see who is going to fuck you the least. I agree. I wish the dealer model would end. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:24:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm glad I bought my truck when I did. Prices today are fucking stupid. Of course, I could have gotten seriously stupid money selling the Tacoma I had. I got one this summer and I am really curious what the trade in value will be on it in a few years the way things are going. I put 25% down and I'm just making monthly payments on the rest....might be able to roll a lot of equity into a new one. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:25:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is this not considered price gouging? Don’t price gouging laws make it illegal to charge “unreasonable prices for essential goods and services” during times of emergency? And hasn’t the government been howling at the moon since Covid hit that this is an emergency? Price gouging only exists if you're a Communist |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:25:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s simple. Don’t pay those prices and the market will correct itself. Thank goodness. This summer, my brother's elderly neighbor was wanting to liquidate some excess. He noted the guy was selling his brand new looking Honda Pioneer 700 UTV. Only had 200 miles on a 2018 model. Lil Bro just offered $10k. Sold. He played around with it lightly this summer, but threw an ad for it on marketplace last week. He just boosted the price $4k. He sold it that afternoon. He could have sold it in an hour if he'd not been tied up at work. The profit yielded a nice heavy trailer we can haul our tractors on. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:26:50 PM EDT
[#33]
I want a new truck.
I will NOT pay these prices, my 2018 car will have to do I guess until they start to deal. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:29:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How will that happen? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One day this will bite them in the ass along with all the other companies. We can then sit back and laugh. I'm all for making a fair profit on something, but some of this shit is just no right. How will that happen? Same way it did around 2010, a downturn coupled with high fuel prices lead to loads of mid size and full sized vehicles just sitting on lots. A lot of people got good deals on previous year models. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:31:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A damn shame if you had sudden catastrophic brake failure while test driving it. Hell, with your settlement you can afford to buy their overpriced POS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is at a podunk dealer in Berwick PA. 25K over sticker. "Sale." https://i.postimg.cc/qBxvJkYW/PXL-20220116-151653512.jpg A damn shame if you had sudden catastrophic brake failure while test driving it. Hell, with your settlement you can afford to buy their overpriced POS.  When the dealer is done suing you and your insurance company you wouldn't be able to finance steam on a hotdog |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:31:25 PM EDT
[#36]
There are still dealers that will deal. You want an 8% under invoice Jeep? Go to the JL forums and find the contact of the dealers doing that.
I bought my BMW X3 M40i last summer under MSRP. My 2023 BMW M2 will be at MSRP, but not over. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:31:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want a new truck. I will NOT pay these prices, my 2018 car will have to do I guess until they start to deal. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:32:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Tons of people here are willing to pay and have already paid dumb money.
People here have more money than sense or they love debt for shiny things as status symbols. Lots of dumb Americans here and everywhere gladly paying over MSRP. They deserve what they are about to get when this crashes and they owe tons on a 8 year loan |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:33:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Price is set by the market. Don't want to pay it, don't buy it. Also, Government fucks up everything it touches.
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:36:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not price gouging, it's "market Adjustment". My local dealer says so. And also the window tint and fabric scotch guard costs $5000. ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Price gouging is a myth. Yup...i agree. Just a fragment of some peoples imagination. It's not price gouging, it's "market Adjustment". My local dealer says so. And also the window tint and fabric scotch guard costs $5000. ?? And a hundred moron zombie sheep idiots will line up to pay it for some stupid reason I have yet to understand |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:39:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are no “price gouging” laws, at least not for vehicles. The dealer can literally ask a billion dollars over sticker and NO laws will be broken. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is this not considered price gouging? Don’t price gouging laws make it illegal to charge “unreasonable prices for essential goods and services” during times of emergency? And hasn’t the government been howling at the moon since Covid hit that this is an emergency? There are no “price gouging” laws, at least not for vehicles. The dealer can literally ask a billion dollars over sticker and NO laws will be broken. But ask $5.00 for a bag of ice after a hurricane and then you go to prison. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:39:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dealers aren't out of control, customers are. There are idiots paying this much. The best part of all of this is that in the you can pick only two of "cheaper, good quality, and now" factors, these customers are overpaying for problem vehicles because crap parts went into more vehicles due to the supply shortages that normally would have been rejected. So they get more expensive, lower quality - but at least they got it now! Correct. Customers are so stupid. I wish I could talk to a few of them ask WHY…….why why why why why I honestly don’t get it. Are people really that rich or that in debt? I’m well off, but I’m not stupid. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:40:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dealers are just the middleman..we need to move away from the antiquated setup of needing to go through one and have direct order and deliver from manufacturers. They can have service centers instead. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:43:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was reading a story about the new home market locally. Builders are asking for 100k more than they signed contracts for and are cancelling the contracts if they don't agree. Shaw Homes. No itemized labor or parts that went up, other than a “we don’t share that” explanation. They can fuck right on off and I hope people will remember when things level out , and people tell them to fuck off and pick another builder. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:47:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. Customers are so stupid. I wish I could talk to a few of them ask WHY…….why why why why why I honestly don’t get it. Are people really that rich or that in debt? I’m well off, but I’m not stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dealers aren't out of control, customers are. There are idiots paying this much. The best part of all of this is that in the you can pick only two of "cheaper, good quality, and now" factors, these customers are overpaying for problem vehicles because crap parts went into more vehicles due to the supply shortages that normally would have been rejected. So they get more expensive, lower quality - but at least they got it now! Correct. Customers are so stupid. I wish I could talk to a few of them ask WHY…….why why why why why I honestly don’t get it. Are people really that rich or that in debt? I’m well off, but I’m not stupid. People carry obscene amounts of debt. I thought for a long time that we just didn't do that well compared to others...then as I got older and discussions switched more into that kind of stuff I realized just how leveraged most people are. It never even occurred to me for years that someone could (or would) finance something like a sled or a side by side, I just figured because it was a toy they went out and bought it. Not too many guys actually do that, plenty are happy to have what amounts to a truck payment at 7% interest on a fucking toy. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:53:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dealers are just the middleman…..we need to move away from the antiquated setup of needing to go through one and have direct order and deliver from manufacturers. They can have service centers instead. Like Tesla? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:53:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you tried to do that? Admittedly, I have not , since I'm not in the market personally. We did buy a 3/4 ton truck at work a few months back. The Chevy we wanted was going to be close to 90k, so we found a 2013 with 150k on it for 28k to get us by for a few years. My point is, for the 62k difference, you could replace the engine and tranny and still be money ahead, it gets the job dobe, which is what matters. Are people really willing to pay a premium simply to have the newest, rarest, etc? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:53:45 PM EDT
[#48]
I went in a dealership to look at a TRX a few weeks ago. I currently have a Raptor and am interested in it.
MSRP was 92k. I talked with the salesman and they evaluated my truck, gave an OK offer for it, and then worked out the financials. 25k ADM. I walked out. Not a word other than "25k markup?", grabbed my keys/ID and rolled. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:58:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Admittedly, I have not , since I'm not in the market personally. We did buy a 3/4 ton truck at work a few months back. The Chevy we wanted was going to be close to 90k, so we found a 2013 with 150k on it for 28k to get us by for a few years. My point is, for the 62k difference, you could replace the engine and tranny and still be money ahead, it gets the job dobe, which is what matters. Are people really willing to pay a premium simply to have the newest, rarest, etc? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have you tried to do that? Admittedly, I have not , since I'm not in the market personally. We did buy a 3/4 ton truck at work a few months back. The Chevy we wanted was going to be close to 90k, so we found a 2013 with 150k on it for 28k to get us by for a few years. My point is, for the 62k difference, you could replace the engine and tranny and still be money ahead, it gets the job dobe, which is what matters. Are people really willing to pay a premium simply to have the newest, rarest, etc? I wish we lived where you could just plop in a new drivetrain and call it a day. Usually by the time a vehicle's engine is worn here, the frame is about rusted in half too. You either run it right into the dirt, or you do your best to keep passing them down the line before they become so worthless they are just scrap. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:02:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is at a podunk dealer in Berwick PA. 25K over sticker. "Sale." https://i.postimg.cc/qBxvJkYW/PXL-20220116-151653512.jpg I am in Drums. Maybe I should test drive it and offer 5k under invoice. I really don’t have anything better to do tomorrow. |
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