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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:44:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should. But won't  It's not a controlling thing; it's just preferences. OP posted his and i agree with some and some i don't. Some dudes like all of the stuff he posted. It may not be your biggest priority, but you do have preferences as far as style and looks. Only women are allowed to have standards and preferrences. Their man must be 6 feet tall, with 6-pack abs, and make 6 figures. And they think that is perfectly fine. Don't let the man dare to express a dislike for a high body mass index, or having kids, or the face-shrapnel look, or being covered in prison grade tats, or body count in 3 figures. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:48:37 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hmm I've never liked the trendy things. Just wear clothes that fit and it'll look good. For women and men. That's why people look dumb when they go back and look at old pictures of themselves. Nice clothes that fit will always be in style. Ripped jeans not so much. Went on a couple dates with a very gen Z girl this year and she was very attractive, but some of the clothes/piercings only detracted from her attractiveness. I'm not sure if it's trying to look less attractive on purpose, or chasing individuality, or what. Men do it too, but not to the same degree. Another one that should have been on the original list. Who the hell thinks britches that look like you got run over by a riding mower are attractive, especially when taken to the extreme?  |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:50:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm fine with cat eye makeup and multiple ear piercings. this |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:56:19 AM EDT
[#4]
Pulling your pants up higher does not make you have a bigger ass.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:59:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only women are allowed to have standards and preferrences. Their man must be 6 feet tall, with 6-pack abs, and make 6 figures. And they think that is perfectly fine. Don't let the man dare to express a dislike for a high body mass index, or having kids, or the face-shrapnel look, or being covered in prison grade tats, or body count in 3 figures. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Should. But won't It's not a controlling thing; it's just preferences. OP posted his and i agree with some and some i don't. Some dudes like all of the stuff he posted. It may not be your biggest priority, but you do have preferences as far as style and looks. Only women are allowed to have standards and preferrences. Their man must be 6 feet tall, with 6-pack abs, and make 6 figures. And they think that is perfectly fine. Don't let the man dare to express a dislike for a high body mass index, or having kids, or the face-shrapnel look, or being covered in prison grade tats, or body count in 3 figures. Are these the same women you addressed your epistle to? |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:02:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another one that should have been on the original list. Who the hell thinks britches that look like you got run over by a riding mower are attractive, especially when taken to the extreme? https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/5347888b-3e84-49a1-a3ef-0aa53aad5b12.a7db4bdefab267789ad8f20afb328cbe.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF Those are bad but when I was in high school the skin tight ripped jeans were in style and they were nice to look at. 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:03:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only women are allowed to have standards and preferrences. Their man must be 6 feet tall, with 6-pack abs, and make 6 figures. And they think that is perfectly fine. Don't let the man dare to express a dislike for a high body mass index, or having kids, or the face-shrapnel look, or being covered in prison grade tats, or body count in 3 figures. Is this some sort of 'I can be meaner than you can be' sort of thing? |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:08:12 PM EDT
[#8]
I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily.
I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it.  |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:32:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily. I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it. Not to mention self-important.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:44:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention self-important. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily. I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it. Not to mention self-important. "Hey men, all women think you look stupid/ugly when you wear __________." Quite frankly I'd lose respect for whoever deigned to give that any thought or concern whatsoever. Don't bend the knee. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:46:21 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:48:08 PM EDT
[#12]
A man can't even complain about the result of his bad choices without you women saying his problem is himself.
Dang ladies. 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:54:26 PM EDT
[#13]
I read the Bible once and like in the very beginning men were like woah this is so awesome but women were like lol time to ruin it
I don't know if you guys know that |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:54:49 PM EDT
[#14]
That's from the Phil Collins chapter
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:55:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily. I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it. Yeah but crocs are completely over the line . 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:56:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention self-important. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily. I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it. Not to mention self-important. Rick tees off on womankind every so often. It’s kind of like someone farting on a crowded elevator. Sure, it’s unpleasant, but it makes him feel good, and it causes no lasting harm. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:57:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah but crocs are completely over the line . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily. I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it. Yeah but crocs are completely over the line . Yet I love him and think he's sexy as hell anyway. I just learned to stop lowering my gaze past his crotch. 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:58:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet I love him and think he's sexy as hell anyway. I just learned to stop lowering my gaze past his crotch.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:24:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Never mind
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:32:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Women frequently want both too. The hunky and exciting but bad type. And the wholesome but not quite so exciting type. Well, sorta... Women want to fuck felons and bear their children, but, want cucks and betas to raise and fund them. This is all women. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:33:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Hey men, all women think you look stupid/ugly when you wear __________." Quite frankly I'd lose respect for whoever deigned to give that any thought or concern whatsoever. Don't bend the knee. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I mean, sure men wear things I think look stupid or weird or whatever. My own husband, God bless him, wears Crocs daily. I just.....don't care. And I'd have to be REALLY self-indulgent to attempt to lecture y'all about it. Not to mention self-important. "Hey men, all women think you look stupid/ugly when you wear __________." Quite frankly I'd lose respect for whoever deigned to give that any thought or concern whatsoever. Don't bend the knee. Soooooo fedoras, neckbeards, and baggy unkempt clothes are BACK on the menu? Lawd the 82nd Cheetoh fingers is going to Knight you for that.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:34:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, sorta... Women want to fuck felons and bear their children, but, want cucks and betas to raise and fund them. This is all women. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Women frequently want both too. The hunky and exciting but bad type. And the wholesome but not quite so exciting type. Well, sorta... Women want to fuck felons and bear their children, but, want cucks and betas to raise and fund them. This is all women. It really isn’t, but I’m sure it makes you feel better to assume that. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:37:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read the Bible once and like in the very beginning men were like woah this is so awesome but women were like lol time to ruin it I don't know if you guys know that 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:37:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this for the 5 or so women in GD? I’m pretty sure there’s more men that think they’re women on arfcom than there are actual women on here. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:39:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soooooo fedoras, neckbeards, and baggy unkempt clothes are BACK on the menu? Lawd the 82nd Cheetoh fingers is going to Knight you for that. I didn't know they ever left. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:41:07 PM EDT
[#26]
The big eyelashes can look really good on darker women, latinas, black, middle eastern, etc. I don't care for them with lighter skin and hair coloring. I'm realizing as I type this, that I've got an eye fetish. Latinas were killing it during the civid mask period, lol. There is something to the veils that women used to wear...
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:51:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't know they ever left. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Soooooo fedoras, neckbeards, and baggy unkempt clothes are BACK on the menu? Lawd the 82nd Cheetoh fingers is going to Knight you for that. I didn't know they ever left. They didn’t. I don't understand in this though - if a guy liked something, say fedoras why would he want to date someone who hates fedoras? Like why are you mad that someone you shouldn't want doesn't like something you do? Same for height/income/vehicle requirements. Some guys do care about their height or income or what vehicle they drive. If you don't care about that why would you want that person in your life? |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:58:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Men want both. It’s their version of the alpha/beta trope. Quote HistoryQuoted: Men want both. It’s their version of the alpha/beta trope. Cue Arnie's line in Total Recall, when the doc asks him his preferences, "Athletic...sleazy...demure..."
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:00:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Women frequently want both too. The hunky and exciting but bad type. And the wholesome but not quite so exciting type. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Men want both. It’s their version of the alpha/beta trope. Women frequently want both too. The hunky and exciting but bad type. And the wholesome but not quite so exciting type. The bad boy who sleeps around... but will fall so madly in love with them, that they'll suddenly change and stop sleeping around... just for them 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:09:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn’t. I don't understand in this though - if a guy liked something, say fedoras why would he want to date someone who hates fedoras? Like why are you mad that someone you shouldn't want doesn't like something you do? Same for height/income/vehicle requirements. Some guys do care about their height or income or what vehicle they drive. If you don't care about that why would you want that person in your life? Yep. A lot of people here act like it's a personal affront when they run across someone who isn't pleasing to their eye. Someone doesn't like my eye makeup or ripped jeans or brown hair or whatever......ok, why are you wasting your time looking at me or letting me know about it? That's a precious few minutes you could be using to seek out someone whose looks are more to your liking. Or, I don't know, thinking about......actually important things.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:24:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It really isn’t, but I’m sure it makes you feel better to assume that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Women frequently want both too. The hunky and exciting but bad type. And the wholesome but not quite so exciting type. Well, sorta... Women want to fuck felons and bear their children, but, want cucks and betas to raise and fund them. This is all women. It really isn’t, but I’m sure it makes you feel better to assume that. They really DO. Women fucking poor, lowest common denominator men is a sure ticket to single motherhood and poverty. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:26:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rick tees off on womankind every so often. It's kind of like someone farting on a crowded elevator. Sure, it's unpleasant, but it makes him feel good, and it causes no lasting harm.  |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:31:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll fight IRL about #4.  Attached FileCat eyes are like an instant +2 on the scale for me |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:34:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They really DO. Women fucking poor, lowest common denominator men is a sure ticket to single motherhood and poverty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Women frequently want both too. The hunky and exciting but bad type. And the wholesome but not quite so exciting type. Well, sorta... Women want to fuck felons and bear their children, but, want cucks and betas to raise and fund them. This is all women. It really isn’t, but I’m sure it makes you feel better to assume that. They really DO. Women fucking poor, lowest common denominator men is a sure ticket to single motherhood and poverty. Some do. Some don’t. It certainly isn’t all, as the previous poster so strenuously asserted. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:41:12 PM EDT
[#35]
I don't know why when there is a thread about women that some white knight has to always jump in and say "well, ahhh, what about men who also do x, y, and z?" Men are not the topic of conversation for this thread and it goes without saying that we could all point out many, many things that men do that are unattractive to women.
As a general rule, I think the level of care that a person puts into their daily appearance says a great deal about them. Do they each day, regardless of the event or circumstances exercise good hygiene and good grooming standards? I don't care if they work from home or do some dirty job that person should take pride in how they appear. If they only ever take pride in how they appear for special events or formal dates than chances are very good that once that person feels secure in a committed relationship they will absolutely let their looks go, big time. Hell, I look for that kind of thing in everyone I deal with, not just romantic partners. Do they present themselves well on a daily basis? For women, that's make-up, hair, and something that takes more effort than tossing on yoga pants and gym shoes for daily wear (again, inside a gym is fine, but I shouldn't see that at the local Whole Foods). |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 2:50:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. A lot of people here act like it's a personal affront when they run across someone who isn't pleasing to their eye. Someone doesn't like my eye makeup or ripped jeans or brown hair or whatever......ok, why are you wasting your time looking at me or letting me know about it? That's a precious few minutes you could be using to seek out someone whose looks are more to your liking. Or, I don't know, thinking about......actually important things. Environment impacts us all. Just hear me out, if someone looks at an ugly landscape 24/7 it will absolutely impact their mood negatively. Whereas, if someone looks at a gorgeous landscape 24/7 it will most likely improve their mood. I read a study somewhere that people who look at large bodies of water (Ocean, lake) at least 20 minutes a day have on average lower blood pressure. I mean there is a reason that we all take our vacations in beautiful areas. A sea of people dressed poorly with bad hygiene and terrible make-up, body piercings, ugly tattoos, terrible colored hair, and so forth is not easy on the eyes. So, absolutely we should all point out when people are not pleasing to the eye, not due to some physical trait that they can't control (that would be wrong), but due to some affirmative action they are taking that makes themselves less pleasant to look at and can be easily remedied. Holding people to certain standards isn't a bad thing, women in our society used to do that and were very good at it. We used to be able to depend on women to police social standards. Look at how smartly dressed folks were just half a century ago when women reigned supreme as the arbitrators of what was and was not socially acceptable. You all are dropping the ball. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:02:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Environment impacts us all. Just hear me out, if someone looks at an ugly landscape 24/7 it will absolutely impact their mood negatively. Whereas, if someone looks at a gorgeous landscape 24/7 it will most likely improve their mood. I read a study somewhere that people who look at large bodies of water (Ocean, lake) at least 20 minutes a day have on average lower blood pressure. I mean there is a reason that we all take our vacations in beautiful areas. A sea of people dressed poorly with bad hygiene and terrible make-up, body piercings, ugly tattoos, terrible colored hair, and so forth is not easy on the eyes. So, absolutely we should all point out when people are not pleasing to the eye, not due to some physical trait that they can't control (that would be wrong), but due to some affirmative action they are taking that makes themselves less pleasant to look at and can be easily remedied. Holding people to certain standards isn't a bad thing, women in our society used to do that and were very good at it. We used to be able to depend on women to police social standards. Look at how smartly dressed folks were just half a century ago when women reigned supreme as the arbitrators of what was and was not socially acceptable. You all are dropping the ball. The very first problem is who decides what is *ugly* and what is *pleasing*? Just in this thread there's dissent on nearly every point in the OP. You just mentioned women should wear makeup to be presentable but half the guys here hate makeup and are glad their wife *doesn't need* it. With the cat eye eyeliner talk y'all can't even decide on what STYLE of makeup is *acceptable* or *gross*. Y'all toss around that meme with the girls dressed like hos and the ones in traditional garb and say men don't want the hos yet every time a ho pic gets posted guys are tripping all over themselves saying how hot she is and how they'd sniff her fart or drink her bathwater or whatever. 7 billion people on this planet and some of y'all think what y'all PERSONALLY find appealing should be the standard everybody else holds themselves to when the guy next to you thoroughly disagrees? Nah, bro. I'll keep looking how I want, thanks. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:03:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Op caught the gey
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:06:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The very first problem is who decides what is *ugly* and what is *pleasing*? Just in this thread there's dissent on nearly every point in the OP. You just mentioned women should wear makeup to be presentable but half the guys here hate makeup and are glad their wife *doesn't need* it. With the cat eye eyeliner talk y'all can't even decide on what STYLE of makeup is *acceptable* or *gross*. Y'all toss around that meme with the girls dressed like hos and the ones in traditional garb and say men don't want the hos yet every time a ho pic gets posted guys are tripping all over themselves saying how hot she is and how they'd sniff her fart or drink her bathwater or whatever. 7 billion people on this planet and some of y'all think what y'all PERSONALLY find appealing should be the standard everybody else holds themselves to when the guy next to you thoroughly disagrees? Nah, bro. I'll keep looking how I want, thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Environment impacts us all. Just hear me out, if someone looks at an ugly landscape 24/7 it will absolutely impact their mood negatively. Whereas, if someone looks at a gorgeous landscape 24/7 it will most likely improve their mood. I read a study somewhere that people who look at large bodies of water (Ocean, lake) at least 20 minutes a day have on average lower blood pressure. I mean there is a reason that we all take our vacations in beautiful areas. A sea of people dressed poorly with bad hygiene and terrible make-up, body piercings, ugly tattoos, terrible colored hair, and so forth is not easy on the eyes. So, absolutely we should all point out when people are not pleasing to the eye, not due to some physical trait that they can't control (that would be wrong), but due to some affirmative action they are taking that makes themselves less pleasant to look at and can be easily remedied. Holding people to certain standards isn't a bad thing, women in our society used to do that and were very good at it. We used to be able to depend on women to police social standards. Look at how smartly dressed folks were just half a century ago when women reigned supreme as the arbitrators of what was and was not socially acceptable. You all are dropping the ball. The very first problem is who decides what is *ugly* and what is *pleasing*? Just in this thread there's dissent on nearly every point in the OP. You just mentioned women should wear makeup to be presentable but half the guys here hate makeup and are glad their wife *doesn't need* it. With the cat eye eyeliner talk y'all can't even decide on what STYLE of makeup is *acceptable* or *gross*. Y'all toss around that meme with the girls dressed like hos and the ones in traditional garb and say men don't want the hos yet every time a ho pic gets posted guys are tripping all over themselves saying how hot she is and how they'd sniff her fart or drink her bathwater or whatever. 7 billion people on this planet and some of y'all think what y'all PERSONALLY find appealing should be the standard everybody else holds themselves to when the guy next to you thoroughly disagrees? Nah, bro. I'll keep looking how I want, thanks. 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:07:11 PM EDT
[#40]
FPNI as always
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:08:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The very first problem is who decides what is *ugly* and what is *pleasing*? Just in this thread there's dissent on nearly every point in the OP. There is also greater and lesser amounts of agreement. We talk about stuff. That's what we do here. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:10:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The very first problem is who decides what is *ugly* and what is *pleasing*? Just in this thread there's dissent on nearly every point in the OP. You just mentioned women should wear makeup to be presentable but half the guys here hate makeup and are glad their wife *doesn't need* it. With the cat eye eyeliner talk y'all can't even decide on what STYLE of makeup is *acceptable* or *gross*. Y'all toss around that meme with the girls dressed like hos and the ones in traditional garb and say men don't want the hos yet every time a ho pic gets posted guys are tripping all over themselves saying how hot she is and how they'd sniff her fart or drink her bathwater or whatever. 7 billion people on this planet and some of y'all think what y'all PERSONALLY find appealing should be the standard everybody else holds themselves to when the guy next to you thoroughly disagrees? Nah, bro. I'll keep looking how I want, thanks. I'm glad you answered because mine was going to be along the lines of maybe women now don't really care if you all get hypertension and die...but...that would be wrong. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:15:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Delicious meal for the kids and me sounds good, but in lieu of the frontier-chic garb, I would prefer an apron and nothing else  Steaks and Bulleit courtesy of perfectsilence will have to do for tonight, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: old man yells at clouds.meme Yeah, ok. "women should be in midlength skirts, silk blouses, and pearls and in the kitchen making a delicious meal for her husband and 2.5 kids" arfTaliban speaks, so let it be written, so let it be done Delicious meal for the kids and me sounds good, but in lieu of the frontier-chic garb, I would prefer an apron and nothing else Steaks and Bulleit courtesy of perfectsilence will have to do for tonight, though.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:18:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Women are responsible for 100% of space crime as well as the WNBA
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:21:28 PM EDT
[#45]
In the interest of fair play, equal time, yada yada things that women (probably?) don't find attractive on men.
1. Neck beards/ungroomed facial hair. If you are gonna have it, maintain it. 2. Man buns. 3. Cargo pants/shorts. Ron Stoppable has left the building. Steve Irwin was an exception but ... 4. Unmaintained/groomed hands and fingernails. I know some of us work with our hands, but please, try to keep them presentable. Keep the nails smooth and the cuticles in good order. I am not sure but I get the sense that women pay more attention to them than we do. If you can't protect your hands with mechanics gloves at least get some good hand cleaner with pumice in it. 5. Whatever this is ...(although what women think of it is probably his least concern ....)  6. TOO MUCH cologne! Women in general have a much more sensitive sense of smell - what seems barely noticable to you may be overwhelming to her. 7. Dry, scaly elbows, knees etc. If you have these - lotion 'em up! |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:24:05 PM EDT
[#46]
I agree with OP 100% and will add war paint and ink.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:26:16 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:28:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm glad you answered because mine was going to be along the lines of maybe women now don't really care if you all get hypertension and die...but...that would be wrong.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:37:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm glad you answered because mine was going to be along the lines of maybe women now don't really care if you all get hypertension and die...but...that would be wrong. No matter what choices you make, someone will think they’re tasteless/ugly/boring/tacky/awful, so…quit worrying about what other people think. Do what makes you happy. If you’re not happy with the results, make changes until you are. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:40:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A man can't even complain about the result of his bad choices without you women saying his problem is himself. Dang ladies. Yea, I'm gonna lean with the dudes here ladies....this thread is not a personal attack.  Now, can we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya?  |
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