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Posted: 4/28/2019 2:51:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote Historyof we are dead in the middle of it.
many of their liberal arts programs were busted up. that is an excellent article. all of my laboratory assistants for the past 12 years have been TU undergrad students from the science programs. all have been extremely gifted students and ever one went on to PhD and med school. all have mentioned how things have changed. we have watched TU and its problems for years. my son went to the school for the gifted on campus for elementary school. one of my best friends has a son who is a sophomore there that has changed his major 3 times. 2 of my best friends played football there on free rides. ( neither have worked a day in their degree field) |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 2:59:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GOING TO RAGE QUIT THIS WEBSITE BECAUSE YOU ALL THINK I SHOULD BE $250K IN DEBT BECAUSE MY LESBIAN POTTERY/MINORITY STUDIES DEGREE CANNOT GET ME A JOB. I AM A HERO! |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:02:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course, they pay for what has value to them. I think that makes sense. One of my ideas for getting all of this under control has been for more of these corporations to partner with these universities and lay out exactly what they need in a graduate, and then have a way for them to essentially sponsor students on their way through, with part of the contract being a job at the end if the student does well enough. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:02:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the pretty blonde walking us thru their scholarship system told us numerous times that the "real" scholarship monies came after the freshman year. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:11:36 PM EDT
[#5]
If they're too young to make good choices about their own life, they're WAY TOO YOUNG to make choices for other people's lives by voting.
Which is it? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:16:30 PM EDT
[#6]
College loans never seemed like a good idea to me and it seems my 18 year old self got something right.
Our neighbors have 50K each in student debt, he has a decent job but she's a stay at home Mom with 4 kids. They have a mortgage, 2 new car payments and 100K in student loans with 1 income. On the bright side for them is they bought their home at the bottom of the market and have 200K in equity in it. they are selling their home and paying off all their bills and then renting for a while. My brother has a degree in digital media that he's used for nothing as he works for the State of California. No idea how much he owes on his loans but I know he does. My ex girlfriend's roommate had 75K in college loans with a bachelors in fashion from UC Davis and last I heard she was a Customer Service rep in a call center. IMO the Govt shouldn't be involved with handing out these loans for worthless degrees. They need to make the people pay them back and then discontinue the loan programs. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:16:58 PM EDT
[#7]
If the FedGov didn’t/wouldn’t pay off mortgages during the mortgage crisis of ‘06ish rather than bail out the banks, what makes anyone think they’re going to bail out kids’ school debt ...?
I could make a convincing case that paying off mortgages in ‘06 would have had a vastly better return on investment in helping the economy than student debt. And I have student debt! |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:17:54 PM EDT
[#8]
I wonder how many of the knee jerk "fuck this" crowd also refuse to admit that social security is just a tax and their retirement depends on others being taxed to pay for their retirement.
Not saying that I'm for it, just saying that there are lots of things that need to be changed and lots of them are going to hurt. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:20:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they're too young to make good choices about their own life, they're WAY TOO YOUNG to make choices for other people's lives by voting. Which is it? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:29:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Part of the problem is the Colleges and Universities have switched to a customer based model because the kids asked/demanded it. Couple that with the students increased demands for a larger administrative body (think the colleges would really pay a diversity czar?). Little Aiden and Zoe really fucked themselves and future college attendees and now they want someone else to pay for it.
Fuck them. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:36:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $60,000 salary is really $35 or 40,000 taken home, and then take another $7200 for a fucking loan. How many jobs out there are 60 grand starting? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:37:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that 60K to start is too uncommon. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:43:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New EEs/MEs make that pretty easily even in Kansas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't think that 60K to start is too uncommon. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:44:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so maybe they shouldn't have maintained a cost increase 4 times that of inflation. You know why state appropriations have shrunk? because the taxpayers are sick and fucking tired of paying for shitty indoctrination. I don't think most taxpayers even know the level of  that pervades many an academic department/class.
But then, that goes to something posted previously. Turn off the tap, and watch the economically unviable academic programs burn. Engineering wouldn't even notice a change , but gender studies and the like would get killed. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:52:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, that's not it. We're getting to a whole 'nother social problem here. State appropriations for things like higher ed have been in long term decline for years as the public employee cost problem has gotten worse and worse. State and municipal governments have been masking the problem by cutting services, like higher ed and road repair spending. Higher ed has the same public employee pension & benefits problem as any other area. I don't think most taxpayers even know the level of that pervades many an academic department/class.
But then, that goes to something posted previously. Turn off the tap, and watch the economically unviable academic programs burn. Engineering wouldn't even notice a change , but gender studies and the like would get killed. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:53:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Part of the problem is the Colleges and Universities have switched to a customer based model because the kids asked/demanded it. Couple that with the students increased demands for a larger administrative body (think the colleges would really pay a diversity czar?). Little Aiden and Zoe really fucked themselves and future college attendees and now they want someone else to pay for it. Fuck them. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:06:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
colleges created this mess and profited from it. let those fuck heads pay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Student loans are economic vampirism and one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on young people. I say this as a person who has $0 in student loans. Burn it all down. let those fuck heads pay. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:07:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: bad news, she is flat out lying to you again. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:10:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that 60K to start is too uncommon. the biggest issue is the fact that their credit is raped over their loans and credit cards and no bank will front them the money to start up or venture into their own. so they remain under the thumbs of another Partner or business owner making them scrape by. the veterinarian field has tanked due to the debt load. very few men are going into that field. they are concentrating on solid $$ science fields. same as the MD/DO crowd. ditching medicine for hard science fields. my friends that are Drs both MD and DO have asked my son why he has no plans for medicine. he point blank tells them the future isnt in it. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:18:06 PM EDT
[#20]
The whole idea of forgiving student loans really pisses me off.
I used my veterans benefits and worked several part time jobs to graduate debt free. I was a 25 year old veteran working for Little Caesars for one year while attending Texas A&M. My car broke down and I rode a bike for 18 months to work and school. I graduated with no debt and got a good job. Twenty-eight years later I have paid all the expenses not covered by scholarships for my two oldest kids to attend University. My youngest starts in one year and I plan to cover all her college expenses as well. Paying for a college education should be something for the student and their parents to work out. Irresponsible parents are just as much to blame as their kids for racking up large student loan debts. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:18:13 PM EDT
[#21]
The government should not guarantee student loans.
The government should not guarantee mortgage loans. The government should let the market work, even if POC with 900 SAT scores can't get college loans. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:20:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: bad news, she is flat out lying to you again. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:23:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in Oklahoma its highly uncommon even for extremely good professions to make 60K right out of the gate. our low cost of living transfers over to pay scale. $45-50K is very much the norm. one of the problems with being one of the lowest costs of living in the nation. I know Lawyers, Veterinarians, CPA's.. all who really have to crank it out for 3-5 years to break the 60-70K range. the biggest issue is the fact that their credit is raped over their loans and credit cards and no bank will front them the money to start up or venture into their own. so they remain under the thumbs of another Partner or business owner making them scrape by. the veterinarian field has tanked due to the debt load. very few men are going into that field. they are concentrating on solid $$ science fields. same as the MD/DO crowd. ditching medicine for hard science fields. my friends that are Drs both MD and DO have asked my son why he has no plans for medicine. he point blank tells them the future isnt in it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't think that 60K to start is too uncommon. the biggest issue is the fact that their credit is raped over their loans and credit cards and no bank will front them the money to start up or venture into their own. so they remain under the thumbs of another Partner or business owner making them scrape by. the veterinarian field has tanked due to the debt load. very few men are going into that field. they are concentrating on solid $$ science fields. same as the MD/DO crowd. ditching medicine for hard science fields. my friends that are Drs both MD and DO have asked my son why he has no plans for medicine. he point blank tells them the future isnt in it. 
https://www1.salary.com/OK/Tulsa/Machinist-I-salary.html |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:24:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The whole idea of forgiving student loans really pisses me off. I used my veterans benefits and worked several part time jobs to graduate debt free. I was a 25 year old veteran working for Little Caesars for one year while attending Texas A&M. My car broke down and I rode a bike for 18 months to work and school. I graduated with no debt and got a good job. Twenty-eight years later I have paid all the expenses not covered by scholarships for my two oldest kids to attend University. My youngest starts in one year and I plan to cover all her college expenses as well. Paying for a college education should be something for the student and their parents to work out. Irresponsible parents are just as much to blame as their kids for racking up large student loan debts. I paid for my own education right off the bat at 18. worked my ass off at Wal-Mart and as a Ranch Hand. the problem now is that the cost of Tuition and the dreaded fee's have gone nuclear and that type of situation is no longer attainable. but.. at what point do you feel you are no longer responsible for your children? 18-21-25? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:26:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear ya. I paid for my own education right off the bat at 18. worked my ass off at Wal-Mart and as a Ranch Hand. the problem now is that the cost of Tuition and the dreaded fee's have gone nuclear and that type of situation is no longer attainable. but.. at what point do you feel you are no longer responsible for your children? 18-21-25? When my kid was going through this a few years ago, a 34 was full ride at Alabama for out of state students. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:27:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryCollege's have flooded the degree fields, while Blue Collar jobs have advanced in need. the Ying and the Yang. strictly a numbers ratio. the Tech Schools are trying to recruit in all the high schools to cover. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:34:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
colleges created this mess and profited from it. let those fuck heads pay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Student loans are economic vampirism and one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on young people. I say this as a person who has $0 in student loans. Burn it all down. let those fuck heads pay. Dang GD sure does turn liberal on some topics. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:35:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And plenty of them got told "get a degree" by people who knew better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Stupid people think college will make them smart, but end up as fodder for debt scams, picking a degree as stupid as them, and still working a shit ass job |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:36:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New EEs/MEs make that pretty easily even in Kansas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't think that 60K to start is too uncommon. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:41:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Grossly overpriced BA degrees.
Let them struggle. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:42:38 PM EDT
[#31]
My daughter just graduated with a BS in Finance. Her starting salary with bonus was mid 70's.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Medical field is about the only one I know of. But you peak early. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: $60,000 salary is really $35 or 40,000 taken home, and then take another $7200 for a fucking loan. How many jobs out there are 60 grand starting? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:45:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see why in state tuition at your flagship school wouldn't be affordable for you? I don't mean to be a dick (its just a talent I have) When my kid was going through this a few years ago, a 34 was full ride at Alabama for out of state students. thats the rub. a couple of years ago a 34 was a full ride here too at OU, OSU and almost a free ride at TU. merit is gone. economic need is the only thing they are looking at. its just the fact we are still pissed off over being lied too and mislead for 5-6 years. the Class Warfare issue came out of nowhere for us.our State Schools have fucked us and every other middle class family with a kid who has been a proven quality student. we have a solid amount in his 529 ( of course the Obama stock market didn't help out either). but we never planned to have to bank roll it all. we are lucky.. we are use to paying private school tuition and will just roll that money into the 529 every month and add even more to it. i guess one of the bigger issues at hand is the .gov rolling all these responsibilities of 18-25 year olds unto the parents. if I had asked my dad for a copy of his tax return when i was in college he would have laughed hysterically then said.. "No".... my son is talking to a OK ARNG recruiter next week to look at options. we've told him there are pretty much all positives and no real negatives in going that route and utilizing all the benefits. I've told him I don't care what he does. but he needs to find a degree or trade where he doesn't have to work in a large city and can be his own boss. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:46:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forgive all debt. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 5:03:15 PM EDT
[#34]
That is a hard question to answer. My Mom started charging me rent at 18 right after High School graduation. I moved out a week later and have been self supporting ever since. I have probably gone too far in the opposite direction to provide every thing I can for my kids. I will consider myself to have succeeded as a parent once they are all independent. But I will make sure they all have the opportunity to get a college degree without taking on any debt. That's the least I can do for my kids.
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear ya. I paid for my own education right off the bat at 18. worked my ass off at Wal-Mart and as a Ranch Hand. the problem now is that the cost of Tuition and the dreaded fee's have gone nuclear and that type of situation is no longer attainable. but.. at what point do you feel you are no longer responsible for your children? 18-21-25? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 5:43:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. If we are forgiving debts in the name of prosperity, just forgive them all, why be selective? 
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:00:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder how many of the knee jerk "fuck this" crowd also refuse to admit that social security is just a tax and their retirement depends on others being taxed to pay for their retirement. Not saying that I'm for it, just saying that there are lots of things that need to be changed and lots of them are going to hurt. Fuckin A, cotton, please end social security too. I could do a lot better with my money than the government. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:14:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. If we are forgiving debts in the name of prosperity, just forgive them all, why be selective? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Forgive all debt. Simply forgive all debt, print money to pay off the debt holders, and put it on the tab. Life will be perfect going forward. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:21:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Fuck that - I have student loans but I signed on the line. I own those damn things - it’s been my best investment.
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:30:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
colleges created this mess and profited from it. let those fuck heads pay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Student loans are economic vampirism and one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on young people. I say this as a person who has $0 in student loans. Burn it all down. let those fuck heads pay. ETA: ...and I work at said vampiric institution. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:39:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College is a business that sales a service/product, if you can't afford the service/business then don't but it. Blaming college for student debt is the equivalent of blaming sugar manufactures for diabetes. Dang GD sure does turn liberal on some topics. Thats funny. I thought it was a "non-profit" that got special dispensation from the government to ensure loans given to their customers couldn't discharge those loans in bankruptcy. Is that what the "free market" looks like in your world? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:46:19 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm fine with college being a business if the dept of ed stops handing out grants to kids who go to said business. A portion of our "customers" are here because they get refunds from pell grants. They're paid to be our customers. We're paid to provide a service to them. We get to keep the customers (and $) if they're happy (i.e., they get good grades, regardless of their performance). Then everyone is surprised when these degrees seem worthless. The incentive structure looks a lot like it did when PWC audited Colonial Bank, yet we're supposed to expect a different outcome?
I think it would be better than what we have now if the gov't just paid for a certain quantity of education, then students competed with each other to get it. At least then colleges wouldn't be competing for students, and just maybe they'd compete on prestige alone. Just maybe the gender studies programs would then mostly go away. One could hope at least. IOW, public funds flowing to schoold should not depend on enrollment. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:03:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College is a business? Thats funny. I thought it was a "non-profit" that got special dispensation from the government to ensure loans given to their customers couldn't discharge those loans in bankruptcy. Is that what the "free market" looks like in your world? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
College is a business that sales a service/product, if you can't afford the service/business then don't but it. Blaming college for student debt is the equivalent of blaming sugar manufactures for diabetes. Dang GD sure does turn liberal on some topics. Thats funny. I thought it was a "non-profit" that got special dispensation from the government to ensure loans given to their customers couldn't discharge those loans in bankruptcy. Is that what the "free market" looks like in your world? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:12:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not make the school responsible for it? They're the ones who produced the defective product. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:16:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that 60K to start is too uncommon. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:16:38 PM EDT
[#45]
sign the line... you Owe the man. it doesnt matter what the reason is. disney trip, over priced education etc.
not my problem. go bankrupt. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:19:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was making close to 60K as an hourly plant guy at a mine. There are quite a few good-paying jobs out there that don't require a degree, but they can be physically demanding and require an actual work ethic. 
Well, maybe. If it works out. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:19:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And you think non profits aren't a business, non profits are a cash cow? A business that doesn't make profit isn't much of a business. They need special protections and laws from government (as well as cash handouts from Department of Education) to make that happen. but, like, totally, free market. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:20:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sign the line... you Owe the man. it doesnt matter what the reason is. disney trip, over priced education etc. not my problem. go bankrupt. 
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:23:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College is a business that sales a service/product, if you can't afford the service/business then don't but it. Blaming college for student debt is the equivalent of blaming sugar manufactures for diabetes. Dang GD sure does turn liberal on some topics. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:24:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Choices/decisions have consequences.
If you can legally enter into a contract you need to follow through and meet your obligations no matter how dumb you were signing for a student loan on a useless course that will never get you a real job. Actions have consequences. The rest of us shouldn't be forced to bail you out because you fucked up. |
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