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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:36:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand the logic of this law. How does living on the land for 20 years entitle you to it legally? Quote HistoryQuoted: In February, Superior Court Judge Craig Karsnitz ruled that Schrock had met the 20-year occupation requirement and Burton had not, so Burton was forced to hand the property title to Schrock. I don't understand the logic of this law. How does living on the land for 20 years entitle you to it legally? If there's no lease or agreement approving their use of the land and the owner makes no effort to remove them for 20 years, it's just assumed they've ceded ownership. Trademarks and patents work similarly. If you don't take action against people infringing on your exclusive rights, it's eventually assumed you've ceded them. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:39:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It sounds like there was also a dispute as to title. The article mentions that the disputed property was given to her mother by the father of the other party. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:43:42 PM EDT
[#3]
People do pretty bad things over a lot less than 125k, daily.
Its gonna be a rough ride. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:43:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Wouldn't the squatter owe a bunch of property tax to the state? Or at least be liable for it from now on? I don't know how that works. I do know united rentals will drop off an excavator at your house if you have stuff that needs to be buried deep.....
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:45:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Everybody has a line in the sand even if you don't realize it. I recently discussed this with some family of mine. We all should give some thought and prayer to this then make the decision before it's made for you. I personally know mine and I've have peace with my lord if you've done that there's things on this earth far worse than death.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:50:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I used to work for a land surveyor and we all went to Connecticut Association of Land Surveyors meetings and education programs .
Whenever the subject of adverse possession would come up bedlam would ensue and folks would scream , cry and get in horrible arguments. Most Judges do not understand land use laws and more times than not try to use logic to work out problems and lawsuits . In court cases involving land use issues the "winner" is the side who does the best job of explaining the law to the judge . The saying among Land Surveyors is you never own land , what you purchased was certain rights to that land . If the other guy has more time and money he is willing to spend than you do anything can happen . |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:52:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Why can't you break in when she leaves, change the locks, and squat in your own home?
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:53:21 PM EDT
[#8]
In California: If a squatter is both occupying the property as well as paying property taxes then that property will go to the squatter after I believe a 2 year period.
I don't know how it is in other states, but seriously a property owner cannot leave a property unoccupied without a tenant and not regularly check up on that property. On a personal note: I bought a new house in November 2019 and moved into it on Jan 2020. I was renovating my previous home in order to place it on the market when the Lockdowns happened in March 2020 and everything went nuts. I kept that property unoccupied and not rented out because many renters refused to pay their rent and landlords couldn't evict them because of the pandemic. I kept current on the property taxes, had a gardener do the landscaping every week, had the neighbors keep an eye on it, and I personally checked that property every 3 weeks. During that entire time I was terrified of someone breaking in and taking up residence and completely trashing the place. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:55:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Adverse possession is a thing everywhere |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:56:55 PM EDT
[#10]
this is why you dont let shit slide for years.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:57:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck squatters, if taxes are paid by the owner, then it's not abandoned. SSS is the correct answer here. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:57:40 PM EDT
[#12]
I thought you couldn't prove adverse possession without paying the taxes on it for years or decades?
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:58:44 PM EDT
[#13]
A neighbor owns about 800 acres. A local business wanted to run for office in the county so he snuck onto the land and built a small cabin, made it his address and supposedly lived there for 2 years (which was a lie because I hunted the land). The court forced the land owner to give the land to the guy FREE
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Posted: 3/11/2023 12:58:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In many states if a squatter can prove the owner of the land knew they were "possessing" the land (aka putting a structure on it and/or living there) for more than 7 years, then they can claim the property as legally theirs. I learned that way back in real-estate school in the 70s. Notorious possession and paying taxes on the property tend to be the qualifiers in many state laws ive skimmed on this |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:09:45 PM EDT
[#15]
to me if the taxes are paid the owner id the person who paid them. anything else is bullshit
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In many states if a squatter can prove the owner of the land knew they were "possessing" the land (aka putting a structure on it and/or living there) for more than 7 years, then they can claim the property as legally theirs. I learned that way back in real-estate school in the 70s. How do people NOT know this? In the late 90s there was a woman in St. Charles MO that had Adverse Possession down to a fine art. She seized huge ammounts of land. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, the original owner of the entire parcel, split it up between two parties and wasn't clear on who owned what. It very well could have been "I have 20 acres, both of you now own it. Figure the rest of it out." Probably. Adverse possession is a LOT harder to pull off than people think in most states. In SC it's almost impossible. People failing to get accurate details on a deed happens all the time. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:13:16 PM EDT
[#18]
SO how is paying the property tax on the land?
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:14:02 PM EDT
[#19]
When my house was for sale my wife was nuts about squatters taking it over. I had to keep WiFi on for cameras and occasionally show her no one was living in the house. It was nuts.
On particularly paranoid day we were walking out the door and she wanted to drive by the place to make sure no squatters were in it. I went back in and grabbed my rifle and a stack of mags. She looked at me and asked what’s that for! Squatters. She eased up a little after that. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:16:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Slower lower.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:16:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah..... I'm dealing with a squatter in a rural area right now that is next door. Welcome to the new world. I'm not a lawyer but I bet these laws actually go back to the early days in this country. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:20:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When my house was for sale my wife was nuts about squatters taking it over. I had to keep WiFi on for cameras and occasionally show her no one was living in the house. It was nuts. On particularly paranoid day we were walking out the door and she wanted to drive by the place to make sure no squatters were in it. I went back in and grabbed my rifle and a stack of mags. She looked at me and asked what’s that for! Squatters. She eased up a little after that.  In the Ghetto 
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:21:19 PM EDT
[#23]
I remember looking into adverse posession laws waaay back many years ago. And from my understanding of them, it's not really as simple as just living there for X number of years and it's yours.
Generally, you must be able to prove that you lived there X number of years (depending on state) so you can't just roll into town the day before, pick out a random abandoned house and now it's yours. That generally involves having mail delivered to that house and utilities in their name. Sometimes it involves paying property taxes. There must not be any formal or legal agreement between you and the original landowner for you to use the property. So you can't just rent a place and then claim it's yours because you live there. The landowner has to be aware (or should have reasonably been aware) that you are using the property. So you can't just sneak in through the backdoor and keep all the lights off so everyone in the neighborhood thinks it's still abandoned. In short, the squatter has to be pretty open and obvious with their trespassing. The original landowner has to not have taken any legal action to stop or prevent your trespass. Generally, the squatter has to have improved the property in some way. All this has to happen over a CONSECUTIVE number of years. So if Johnny Squatter has stayed on the property for 5 of the required 6 years and the owner comes along and files a police report of his trespassing, the clock starts again. For all practical purposes, the original landowner has to REALLY go out of their way to abandon a property and ignore the fact that someone else is using it before adverse possession comes into play. It's not as simple as some tweaker sneaking into your barn to spend the night and now it's his. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:26:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck squatters, if taxes are paid by the owner, then it’s not abandoned. SSS is the correct answer here. Sometimes you have to come out of the basement; sometimes you have to answer the door; sometimes you have to confront the MF'er trying to take your property. It also helps to know or get to know a good lawyer regarding property issues - just look at the various threads around here. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:29:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Journalism is lacking nowadays.
Article says ...Schrock’s mother had also been given the land by Burton’s father before he died and passed it down to Schrock when she died. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:31:13 PM EDT
[#26]
In clown world, does this mean a 20 year renter gets to keep the house?
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:36:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In clown world, does this mean a 20 year renter gets to keep the house? Depends what level of clown world we're at. At the current level, no. Let's see what 2024 brings.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:43:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Pop...pop...pop.
... ... ... pop pop pop pop pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 1:56:14 PM EDT
[#29]
This happens in the suburbs as well. People will leave trees near the property line for privacy and build a fence just inside of them. The neighbor will plant flower gardens right up to the fence and use that land as their own. Fast forward 20 years and the property owner finds out he no longer owns the land beyond the fence.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:05:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Adverse possession has been property law for as long as there has been property law
NACHOS Notorious Adverse Continuous Hostile Open Statutory period That’s how I learned it as a 1L |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:07:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Adverse possession is a thing everywhere Yep, I knew a NY judge that lost a strip of lake front property about 12’ by 200’. The neighbor lady was using it, mowing it and gardening it. The judge’s dad was the owner for the majority of that time and did nothing. When the judge inherited it he tried to settle the matter and his attorney dropped the ball filing and the lady’s adverse possession wasn’t stopped. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:09:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Its not eniment domain issue, its adverse possession
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:16:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In clown world, does this mean a 20 year renter gets to keep the house? The possession isn't really 'adverse' if there is an agreement between renter and landlord... Similarly, if you have land you want to protect against AP or prescriptive easements, one of these signs help. AP can't be claimed when permission of use has been granted... 
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:19:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand the logic of this law. How does living on the land for 20 years entitle you to it legally? Only for the little people, try squatting on Bill Gates or a Pelosi vineyard. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:25:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Its a thing, we had a vacant lot next to my mom's house for ever. It was over grown and the owner lived a couple of houses away.
Well we used to mow a small strip of grass next to our propery that was probably 4' and went the length of our property. But it was part of the vacant lot. We did it to keep the weeds back. I mowed that strip for 30 years when I was a kid and later on after I got married and moved out of the house. I would mow my moms yard. One day the orginal owner died and his family sold the property. A few weeks after closing my mom gets a cease and desist letter from a lawyer telling her to stop mowing that small strip of grass. We should have taken possession of the property when we had the chance because the owner wouldn't maintain the vacant lot and it got overgrown and caused my mom problems. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:27:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like the whole property. Article stated goat pen took up 3/4 of an acre. Unless Acreage in Delaware is going for 125k an acre. It’s a mile from the beach in what is an absolute boom town. That’s an easy 125k |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:27:07 PM EDT
[#37]
I thought everybody knew that if somebody else lived on/took care of a piece of your property for X number of years, they could claim it was their's.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:29:47 PM EDT
[#38]
*note to self*
When dealing with squatters, do not involve local municipalities. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:31:46 PM EDT
[#39]
The only place I have never seen this work is when the squatter is on BLM land. For some reason the Feds don't follow this rule.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:32:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Time for a goat grab.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:33:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought everybody knew that if somebody else lived on/took care of a piece of your property for X number of years, they could claim it was their's. This is GD, where the majority of people are ignorant to something that’s part of law since the ancient Romans, and has been on the books in the States for about forever. But then then they get all frothed up over it like it’s this new “clown world” thing. It’s funny to watch. And sad. It’s also sad. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:33:54 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:35:47 PM EDT
[#43]
If neighbor disappeared and there was some fresh dirt on the property I certainly wouldn't look into it.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:46:45 PM EDT
[#44]
That land was stolen and the judge was an accomplice... I own vacation home and it sits sometimes for 4-6 months....it's simple to protect... Alarm system... Its hard to squat when you be being hauled off to jail for breaking and entering.... The land is somewhat more difficult...
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:51:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Also there appears to more to the story.
"Schrock's mother had also been given the land by Burton's father before he died and passed it down to Schrock when she died" Also, whoever wrote that article needs to go back working at McDonald's... |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:51:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Sue her for 20 years of property taxes.
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Posted: 3/11/2023 2:55:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is GD, where the majority of people are ignorant to something that’s part of law since the ancient Romans, and has been on the books in the States for about forever. But then then they get all frothed up over it like it’s this new “clown world” thing. It’s funny to watch. And sad. It’s also sad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought everybody knew that if somebody else lived on/took care of a piece of your property for X number of years, they could claim it was their's. This is GD, where the majority of people are ignorant to something that’s part of law since the ancient Romans, and has been on the books in the States for about forever. But then then they get all frothed up over it like it’s this new “clown world” thing. It’s funny to watch. And sad. It’s also sad. lol, I think about adverse possession every time I see my neighbor has mowed over into my yard. Then again, the previous owner of my house connected the back fence to the next door neighbor's fence, which had a 3ft setback. Guess who owns that three foot strip in four more years?
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Posted: 3/11/2023 3:06:18 PM EDT
[#48]
If I'm ever on a jury and it has anything to do with 'squatters rights'....the original owner walks....no matter WTF they do to the 'squatter.'
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Posted: 3/11/2023 3:07:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Squatters rights have existed for a long time - the fact that there was an uninterrupted 20+ year history of possession is kind of reliant.
I assume the laws are mostly in place today due to drifting property lines. Property line drifts a little, nobody realizes it. Person builds improvements, not realizing they built them over the drifted line. Decades later it is realized that they built over undisputed land... Who owns the the improvements. --- My mother bought a ranch with her first husband, after he died, she sold it to her parents. At some point a river moved a little. They technically owned a tiny bit on the other side. Eventually adverse possession gave it to the person who it connected to, as they never had a way to get it without going swimming. --- In a more rational method, her ex husband got their house via adverse possession-kind of. They purchased the house when they got married-it was seller financed. After a couple years, the bank stopped accepting payments as the original owner had died and their was nobody to give the payments to-so he stopped paying. A decade or so went by, and eventually the county realized nobody was paying the property tax. So he talked to a lawyer. He paid the back taxes and filled for title based on possession and got it. The issue here is that as having possessed it for more than a decade, he had more right to it than the state after the taxes were paid. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 3:13:40 PM EDT
[#50]
There are a lot of antiquated or outdated laws that I can at least see the rationale of the lawmakers from when the laws were enacted. Squatters rights has never made sense to me whatsoever. It is stealing. How it can be seen as anything else is beyond me.
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