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Posted: 3/13/2019 8:53:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO SPACEX , They are frauds taking billions and Elon Mush is going to kill someone Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SLS, you mean? Agreed. Shitcan it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 8:56:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank God for SpaceX. Holy shit we're so fucked when political corruption, billions of dollars and space exploration are combined together. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:01:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The biggest reason Falcon Heavy got delayed is because they kept upgrading Falcon 9 over that same time period. You can't really do a three core when your core design keeps changing. The current regular block 5 Falcon 9 is almost as powerful as the original Falcon Heavy design was. The first circa 2011 intended to be about Delta IVH size (~28 tonnes to LEO), now Falcon 9 can do 23 tonnes by itself now and Falcon Heavy's payload increased to 63 tonnes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: SpaceX was never even all that interested in doing Falcon Heavy. Their original plan was to go from Falcon 9 to BFR and eventually phase out F9. Enough customers/potential customers asked for it that they said "fuck it, lets give it a shot, how hard can it be to strap 3 first stages together?" As it turns out, kinda hard. The current regular block 5 Falcon 9 is almost as powerful as the original Falcon Heavy design was. The first circa 2011 intended to be about Delta IVH size (~28 tonnes to LEO), now Falcon 9 can do 23 tonnes by itself now and Falcon Heavy's payload increased to 63 tonnes Going to the moon isn't as easy as just getting something in space and gently drifting there. It takes massive amounts of rocket fuel that first have to be put in space. The delta V required to reach low earth orbit is nothing compared to what it takes to get to the moon from earth. It takes about 7800 meters per second to reach low earth orbit. It takes another 9400 meters per second on top of that to get from low earth orbit to the moon. Then once you are there you need to slow down enough to get captured by the moon and lets not even talk about landing, taking off again and getting back to earth. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:04:09 PM EDT
[#4]
They should have gone with the Shuttle-C idea for a heavy lifter, and then man-rated Atlas V.
It would have kept everyone employed, been vastly quicker, and done most of what SLS is supposed to do. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:04:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we want to do anything other than dick around in space, people will eventually die. People die driving, flying, and boating. The only way to be sure people don't die in space is if we stop going. And if you think we shouldn't go to space because people might die, that is loser incel logic. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:05:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither of the falcon designs are reaching the moon. It takes more Delta v to go from low earth orbit to the moon than it takes to reach low earth orbit. To give you an idea of how much it takes to reach the moon the Saturn V moon lander fully fueled weighed more than the falcon 9 can even put in low earth orbit. That was just the lander not the command module or the stage that got everything to the moon. Going to the moon isn't as easy as just getting something in space and gently drifting there. It takes massive amounts of rocket fuel that first have to be put in space. The delta V required to reach low earth orbit is nothing compared to what it takes to get to the moon from earth. It takes about 7800 meters per second to reach low earth orbit. It takes another 9400 meters per second on top of that to get from low earth orbit to the moon. Then once you are there you need to slow down enough to get captured by the moon and lets not even talk about landing, taking off again and getting back to earth. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:08:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They beat Boeing to the ISS with 30% less money. Much less money and time than Orion BTW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And Obama put the task of flying crew in his lap how many years ago? I was at KSC working on space shuttles that day. Much less money and time than Orion BTW. I didn't see anything in the commercial crew program that there was a race either or did I miss something? Weren't they both paid to provide so many flights each? Orion hasn't been in the planning for ISS flights since like 2010 when it was part of Ares/Constellation which was dropped before the commercial crew program. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:08:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither of the falcon designs are reaching the moon. It takes more Delta v to go from low earth orbit to the moon than it takes to reach low earth orbit. To give you an idea of how much it takes to reach the moon the Saturn V moon lander fully fueled weighed more than the falcon 9 can even put in low earth orbit. That was just the lander not the command module or the stage that got everything to the moon. Going to the moon isn't as easy as just getting something in space and gently drifting there. It takes massive amounts of rocket fuel that first have to be put in space. The delta V required to reach low earth orbit is nothing compared to what it takes to get to the moon from earth. It takes about 7800 meters per second to reach low earth orbit. It takes another 9400 meters per second on top of that to get from low earth orbit to the moon. Then once you are there you need to slow down enough to get captured by the moon and lets not even talk about landing, taking off again and getting back to earth. They just drag a couple motors out and light them up when its time for more funding. If they can actually pull off SLS and luanch something, it will be awesome and I will go watch it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:12:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The LM was a bit over 15 tons. The Falcon 9 can put 23 tons into orbit and the Falcon Heavy can do 64 tons. You might want to re-check your math. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:14:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just fucking use SpaceX jesus christ this shit isn't rocket surgery |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:14:37 PM EDT
[#11]
What evs, that James Webb be taking some fly photos lately
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:15:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People died on NASA spacecraft that never even went into space |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:16:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither of the falcon designs are reaching the moon. It takes more Delta v to go from low earth orbit to the moon than it takes to reach low earth orbit. To give you an idea of how much it takes to reach the moon the Saturn V moon lander fully fueled weighed more than the falcon 9 can even put in low earth orbit. That was just the lander not the command module or the stage that got everything to the moon. Going to the moon isn't as easy as just getting something in space and gently drifting there. It takes massive amounts of rocket fuel that first have to be put in space. The delta V required to reach low earth orbit is nothing compared to what it takes to get to the moon from earth. It takes about 7800 meters per second to reach low earth orbit. It takes another 9400 meters per second on top of that to get from low earth orbit to the moon. Then once you are there you need to slow down enough to get captured by the moon and lets not even talk about landing, taking off again and getting back to earth. 10 Falcon heavies, fully expended, are literally cheaper than a single SLS launch, and that doesn't even include the SLS's development costs. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:16:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There needs to be alternatives to SpaceX. When the Shuttle rand into problems, America was stuck on the ground. We need several man-rated rocket systems ready to go. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:17:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There needs to be alternatives to SpaceX. When the Shuttle rand into problems, America was stuck on the ground. We need several man-rated rocket systems ready to go. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:20:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blue origin is moving a along very nicely. Their large rocket is a match to the SLS. Also the SLS has already subcontracted its main engines to Blue Origin which area already built and tested. They are some pretty big SOBs. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:22:24 PM EDT
[#17]
SpaceX's success makes me extremely motivated to have my own space company even if its just a 10 employee software consulting firm.
Clearly there's a ton of money in the industry, but it goes to companies doing jack shit with it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:23:28 PM EDT
[#18]
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1105865163209625600
Here is what is absolutely stunning. In two days NASA and White House officials have acknowledged the agency does not need SLS for:
Lunar Gateway Assembly Science missions Crew missions to lunar orbit Folks, that's everything SLS was going to do for the next 15 years, at least. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:24:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Falcon Heavy can do 16.8 tons TMI |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:24:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SpaceX's success makes me extremely motivated to have my own space company even if its just a 10 employee software consulting firm. Clearly there's a ton of money in the industry, but it goes to companies doing jack shit with it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:25:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Add a couple or three tons to that for TLI. TMI is Mars. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:26:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem with all that is that the BFR can reach the moon and beyond and its further along than the SLS, and it just started about a year or so ago. The SLS has been around for over 17 years and they cant even manage a mock up. That tells me it most likely will never happen and is just a money funneling project. They just drag a couple motors out and light them up when its time for more funding. Please show me how much of the BFR is completed. No, SLS hasn't been around for 17yrs. NASA's MAF was still building shuttle ET's 10yrs ago, wasn't any SLS going on then. MAF has built at least one core stage worth of major assemblies components. They have been going to Marshall for testing. EM-1's core stage assemblies are built but the sub systems aren't finished being integrated yet. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:30:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Theres a lot of new space companies out there. SpaceX, Blue Origin, Vector, Rocket Lab, Exos, Firefly, Virgin Orbit, etc... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SpaceX's success makes me extremely motivated to have my own space company even if its just a 10 employee software consulting firm. Clearly there's a ton of money in the industry, but it goes to companies doing jack shit with it. I don't have 10 million to start a company like Elon so I gotta dream smaller, but I know I can perform better even doing my same job if it were my own company. Just sucks that there's such cronyism that the government/military gives out the contracts to either female/minority companies or giant contractors who don't get shit done. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:34:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the Raptor engine for the BFR? Hasn't it been in development for like 10 yrs?  There's one getting mounted to their test hopper in Texas as we speak. 
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:34:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Raptor engine, I have no clue how long it has been in development but its going on the BFR and its now the most efficient motor. BFR was not formal until recently. I can bet they will have a dozen Raptor engines or more by 2020. Space X is already building or has already built the launch tower to this one as well.
Before they called it the SLS it had another name under Bush 2, before that they had been working on it in the 70s, or 80s I forget. I hope it launches as its a monster, but I doubt it. I have seen the progress on the new main engines, but they are extremely expensive and was not sure if they abandoned them. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:38:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Old space meet New space
Not sure how much weight they have to throw for orion to work but two heavies and have the payloads dock in space then off to the moon. Or one heavy with a space tug and a facon with the capsule. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:45:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
jeeez.... 10 years ago SpaceX had only just launched it's second Falcon 1, a glorified hobby rocket... And from that short period of time it has gone on to develop the most advanced rocket engine ever made and your throwing shade at them. There's one getting mounted to their test hopper in Texas as we speak. https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/47120.0/1549104.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Is the Raptor engine for the BFR? Hasn't it been in development for like 10 yrs? There's one getting mounted to their test hopper in Texas as we speak. https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/47120.0/1549104.jpg |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Hmm 2018 114 launches worldwide. SpaceX was 21of them ula 9....
Scary part is China launched 35..... |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:00:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Falcon Heavy can do 16.8 tons TMI |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:02:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Needs canceled immediately and everyone on the project fired for gross negligence. There's no excuse for burning through $50 billion and having little to show for it. There must be accountability and there must be penalties, even criminal liability, for such a violation of the public trust. And that includes Congressmen who back-channeled money to their own state knowing the program was a shit fest. Kill the program, fire the incompetent, imprison the crooks. Anyone at the administrative level who knew it was undoable but let taxpayers get bilked for $ billions anyway needs to go and maybe even see jail time. Incompetence at his level and at this cost cannot be swept under the rug. This is taxpayer money, not money from private investors who knew the risk. In the corporate world they would be thrown on their ass into the street. This is public money: there must be consequences. And what is the quality of NASA engineers these days? Are they recruited based on identity politics or sexual orientation or because they can do the actual work? |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:03:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm 2018 114 launches worldwide. SpaceX was 21of them ula 9.... Scary part is China launched 35..... Most of China's launches in 2018 were <1000kg SSO sats. |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:07:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first iteration of SLS uses basically a Delta IV upper stage. The SLS, Orion, and Ares so far have taken $50+billion... And the SLS uses no new engines and mostly shuttle hand-me-downs. SLS is a dumpster fire of biblical proportions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: They delayed the second stage development $$? The SLS, Orion, and Ares so far have taken $50+billion... And the SLS uses no new engines and mostly shuttle hand-me-downs. SLS is a dumpster fire of biblical proportions. Kharn |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:12:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Blue origin is moving a along very nicely. Their large rocket is a match to the SLS. Also the SLS has already subcontracted its main engines to Blue Origin which area already built and tested. They are some pretty big SOBs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There needs to be alternatives to SpaceX. When the Shuttle rand into problems, America was stuck on the ground. We need several man-rated rocket systems ready to go. Kharn |
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:14:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Elon Musk, the Huckster, doesn't have shit. His whole program is a sham bait to get government money to feed his failed organizations. all he lives off of are government handouts, like the 7500 he gets for each Teshamla sold. We should be giving money to real god fairing American companies that aren't propped up by uncle sam, like Boeing, Lockmart, and BAE. Not Weed smoking, North Korea supprting fraudsters. Edit: to prove this, they are building a fake rocket out in the desert, called a Hopper, lol. This thing has dents and huge weld seems, and yet he thinks people can get into space like that? Go smoke some more devils lettuce.  
Poe’s Law 
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Posted: 3/13/2019 10:33:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO SPACEX , They are frauds taking billions and Elon Mush is going to kill someone Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SLS, you mean? Agreed. Shitcan it. Right now SpaceX is currently in first place for.future control of space access. Blue Origin is a potential player, but they're behing the curve. The Chinese are probably in third place, globally, towards having a dominant position in space over the next quarter century. Literally everyone else is shuffling deck chairs (Russia, Arianespace, ULA, etc). Barring a massive governmental cash infusion on the order of the Manhattan Project, directed towards one of the latter entities, there's about zero chance of any of those players having any appreciable market share in 2030...and hell, at the current rate they may suffer rapid unscheduled corporate disintegration even sooner. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:21:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Paralysis by analysis and unions yo.
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:29:29 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Virgin is trying to catch up.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: SpaceX has alot of killing to do to catch up with NASA. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:35:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO SPACEX , They are frauds taking billions and Elon Mush is going to kill someone Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SLS, you mean? Agreed. Shitcan it. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 6:45:44 AM EDT
[#39]
 SLS Rocket In Trouble After New White House Budget Request |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#40]
I was just watching a video of the head NASA guy. Looks like he wants to go straight to Block ?? SLS heavy lifter and kill off all the other versions to speed up the heavy lift capability and move man ratings to other rockets. If SLS cant get their stuff together then just suck it up and move to the commercial rockets and be done with it.
Also, Trump wanted and got funding for a permanent moon orbiting station called Gateway, which is really cool. Its a highly modular system that can be expanded on. It would take 2 Falcon heavies to 1 SLS rocket but still be cheaper they figure by a cool $1 Billion. SLS would still be the king of all rockets and the best way to get really heavy 1 piece items up. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 10:06:48 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SLS would still be the king of all rockets and the best way to get really heavy 1 piece items up. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 10:15:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there is a true market for really heavy 1 piece items, you can bet SpaceX will build a system for them. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 12:19:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Neotopiaman: The rhetoric against SLS is increasing rapidly. The Ares V and SLS were pipe dreams as heavy lifters that burned hydrogen through expensive Space Shuttle Main Engines on a single use main stage. Unless someone parks a nuclear reactor at an atoll somewhere in the middle of the ocean to fuel up Robert Truax' Sea Dragon, hydrogen doesn't make sense to me as a heavy lifter main stage. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 2:20:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Maybe relevant...
 Can Orion Fly Around The Moon Without SLS? |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:30:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Orion Capsule and service module combined service to flight loads is 25 tons. That’s with a low efficiency kerosene upper. Build a raptor methane upper and you will easily have enough total impulse for Orion. Or even better, use a Centaur for a kick stage. At that point, you have a dual launch option with two falcon heavies. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:32:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there is a true market for really heavy 1 piece items, you can bet SpaceX will build a system for them. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:34:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a shame that we passed up on the Ares I. The Ares V and SLS were pipe dreams as heavy lifters that burned hydrogen through expensive Space Shuttle Main Engines on a single use main stage. Unless someone parks a nuclear reactor at an atoll somewhere in the middle of the ocean to fuel up Robert Truax' Sea Dragon, hydrogen doesn't make sense to me as a heavy lifter main stage. 
^^^ This is what we need to get behind if we truly want to open up the skies. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:41:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They already are (Starship/BFR) |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:44:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Ares V and SLS were pipe dreams as heavy lifters that burned hydrogen through expensive Space Shuttle Main Engines on a single use main stage. Unless someone parks a nuclear reactor at an atoll somewhere in the middle of the ocean to fuel up Robert Truax' Sea Dragon, hydrogen doesn't make sense to me as a heavy lifter main stage. |
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Posted: 3/14/2019 3:48:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at the numbers. Even BFR has limits. |
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