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6/18/2008 7:30:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Racketeering.

Like we should be surprised.  A government entity abused the power given it.  Gee, I am shocked.

Funny, even my most junior staff accountant is required - by the state Board of Accountancy - to take an ethics class each and every year.

A pity the same standard doesn't apply to the profession that can ruin peoples' entire lives.  
6/18/2008 7:35:00 PM EDT
[#2]
I like Dave_A, when he participates in a thread I get to try out the scroll-wheel acceleration feature on my mouse.

Seriously though, the problem people like Dave_A and ASSaultRIFLER have isn't that they are stupid, it's just that they lack empathy and creativity. The are incapable of stepping outside of the bounds of dogma and use the ability of abstraction we've developed as humans and people.
6/18/2008 7:35:19 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
When was the last time he busted a moonshiner?

And why might that be?


That's different.  You see, a Constitutional Amendment was required to outlaw booze, and well....umm, well with pot, it's just different.  Yeah, different.

6/18/2008 7:36:57 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Nah... Not Charity...

Give the seized assets to State or Federal agencies, under the rule that not a dime can be spent by any agency involved in the seizure...

No profit motive to sieze.... But they guy hauling $100k of drug money in the doors or seat cushion of his car still gets busted....

The system by which forfeiture works should be changed - BUT the fact still remains that large amounts of cash are a pretty good indicator of criminal behavior... Not $5k, mind you....

But $100k? 1 mil? Definitely raises a strong possiblity....

If it's hidden in parts of the car? Very strong possibility....

Drugs present in the car (like the guy who's car smelled of pot, and had pot residue in it)? Seize it all... That's stupid games/stupid prizes territory..... No question on that one....


In some parts of the country, being black is "a pretty good indicator" of wrongdoing.

6/18/2008 7:38:00 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

The point of banning drugs isn't to 'make money'...

It's to keep as many people as possible from using drugs... And to punish the rest severely...



Then why has drug usage and profits not even been nicked with a multi decade war on drugs?


Because we don't take it seriously enough, and don't punish severely enough....





Bingo! Which is why no one can reasonably claim that the "war on drugs" is really about the actual, physical, drugs themselves. The REAL focus on the "war on drugs" is on growing the power of the State and making money for that same State via asset forfietures (using the drug war as a legal excuse for what, in many cases, is theft by government through a uniform, a badge and a gun).



I also find it somewhat ironic, Dave_A, that you have no problems whatsoever about seizing various assets that may---or may not---have been used in a crime but, at the same time, you rail against joe horn of texas for shooting two theives who broke into his neighbors home while the owners were away. Let's have a cheerleader, rah-rah, session for asset forfiture---where criminal activity doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt before assets can be permanently seized---but let's weep and knash our teeth because two real theives get shot and killed in texas while they are busy committing their B&E. Irony. Oh, sweet irony.
6/18/2008 7:40:28 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

And if you talk to any drug dealer they will tell you marijuana isnt where money is made. Its to get people to buy hard drugs and that is where the money is at. That is why we see so much laced marijuana.


you're are so full of shit, you squish when you walk.

least that's the saying 'round here.



Its by far the least costly drug. Someone addicted to a hardcore drug can spend a $100 a day on their habit easily. A pot head will spend a fraction of that.


ETA: And also look at the hardcore drug cartels south of the border. They dont specialize in weed. They're making BILLIONS of dollars every year in the hard stuff.

The domestic and Canadian grow operations are but a drop in the bucket to those guys.



full of shit AND factually incorrect - that means WRONG.

eta:

"MEXICO CITY — Marijuana is now the biggest source of income for Mexico's drug cartels and the U.S. is committed to cracking down harder on traffickers, U.S. drug czar John Walters said Thursday.

"We're trying to increase the force with which we're attacking this problem," Walters said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "This is a focus because of the overlooked importance marijuana has in the violence."

Walters made the comments following a meeting with Mexican officials who want the U.S. to prosecute marijuana cases more zealously to reduce the amount of cash gangs can spend on guns.

Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora discussed the subject with Walters and U.S. federal prosecutors from the border region Thursday during a meeting in the Baja California resort of Los Cabos.

Walters said the U.S. government is seeking additional resources to prosecute traffickers of marijuana, which now earns cartels about $8.5 billion or about 61 percent of their annual estimated income of $13.8 billion. Cocaine sales earn the cartels about $3.9 billion, and methamphetamine about $1 billion, he said."

have a big cup.


Cartels sell by volume.

Jerome on the block sells by profit margin and by getting customers to come back, just like any business.

Apples and orangutans.
6/18/2008 7:47:24 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
Not that far...

Sieze it...

Hold it and have a civil trial where the government has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the money/assets were related to or proceeds from a crime (as opposed to the citizen having to prove that it was not)...


Well, except that it's an utterly insane legal fiction.  You have already seized someone's property without due process.  

To adhere to the tenets of civil process you (the government) would sue the person for the money, alleging it was the result of illegal activities, but you would not be able to seize it until the court awarded it to you, after the proceedings.

You have intitiated a pseudo-civil action in which you are presumably the "plaintiff" but have not proven anything.  

It's akin to my suing someone (any old reason will do), getting to take their money NOW and hold it while the court proceedings are held, and then IF the other party can prove a negative, then I will give their money back.  In due time of course, I have no reason to be in a rush, of course.  

Hell, if I could do that, I'd never need to work again.  What a racket.


In the end, the same ends are accomplished... It's just more 'fair' to the occasional oddball who uses the body panels of his car for a piggy-bank, for totally innocent reasons....


And who's going to reimburse him for the legal fees, not to mention the time value of money, while his cash was wrongfully confiscated and held?  You?  Your department?

That's what I thought.


P.S. I have no problem with 'There was a small amount of pot in your car... It's now our car... Everything in it that's not live and breathing? Ours too'.... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes... Everyone knows drugs are illegal, and I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught with them...


Another legal fiction, but that's another thread.  A Constitutional Amendment was required to outlaw alcohol - a man made substance, yet mysteriously the same doesn't apply to a plant?  

How's that War on Drugs™ coming, by the way?  I have a few friends who regularly smoke pot, have done so for 20 years.  Never once been caught.  I know a judge in Boulder who smokes pot.  Quite a few venture capitalists on the front range smoke a lot, and they've never been busted either.  

Inexplicably, none of these people have murdered a kitten, taken candy from babies, drank cheap beer or committed any other horrible sin against society.  In fact, I'd say they've contributed quite a bit to society, if for no other reason than the huge amount of taxes they pay and the jobs they have created.  The evil devil weed strikes again.

Not any more difficult to get any drug one wants actually, in fact the only thing that's changed in the last 15 years is that LSD is a little harder to come by, after the big Kansas bust.  

In fact, nothing much has really changed other than reduced personal liberty, and an increase in crime (see also: "prohibition").

6/18/2008 7:50:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice thread.
6/18/2008 7:54:44 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
How's that War on Drugs™ coming, by the way?  I have a few friends who regularly smoke pot, have done so for 20 years.  Never once been caught.  I know a judge in Boulder who smokes pot.  Quite a few venture capitalists on the front range smoke a lot, and they've never been busted either.  Not any more difficult to get any drug one wants actually, in fact the only thing that's changed in the last 15 years is that LSD is a little harder to come by, after the big Kansas bust.  



Now, c'mon... you know that's not true. The only people who drugs are those sketchy looking folks that live in the projects, and in the trailer parks.

And let's face it... those "types" deserve whatever they get.


Shame about the LSD.  

6/18/2008 7:59:07 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

And if you talk to any drug dealer they will tell you marijuana isnt where money is made. Its to get people to buy hard drugs and that is where the money is at. That is why we see so much laced marijuana.


you're are so full of shit, you squish when you walk.

least that's the saying 'round here.



Its by far the least costly drug. Someone addicted to a hardcore drug can spend a $100 a day on their habit easily. A pot head will spend a fraction of that.


ETA: And also look at the hardcore drug cartels south of the border. They dont specialize in weed. They're making BILLIONS of dollars every year in the hard stuff.

The domestic and Canadian grow operations are but a drop in the bucket to those guys.



full of shit AND factually incorrect - that means WRONG.

eta:

"MEXICO CITY — Marijuana is now the biggest source of income for Mexico's drug cartels and the U.S. is committed to cracking down harder on traffickers, U.S. drug czar John Walters said Thursday.

"We're trying to increase the force with which we're attacking this problem," Walters said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "This is a focus because of the overlooked importance marijuana has in the violence."

Walters made the comments following a meeting with Mexican officials who want the U.S. to prosecute marijuana cases more zealously to reduce the amount of cash gangs can spend on guns.

Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora discussed the subject with Walters and U.S. federal prosecutors from the border region Thursday during a meeting in the Baja California resort of Los Cabos.

Walters said the U.S. government is seeking additional resources to prosecute traffickers of marijuana, which now earns cartels about $8.5 billion or about 61 percent of their annual estimated income of $13.8 billion. Cocaine sales earn the cartels about $3.9 billion, and methamphetamine about $1 billion, he said."

have a big cup.


Cartels sell by volume.

Jerome on the block sells by profit margin and by getting customers to come back, just like any business.

Apples and orangutans.


fair enuf-

but here the quote I responded to:

[bold]And if you talk to any drug dealer they will tell you marijuana isnt where money is made. Its to get people to buy hard drugs and that is where the money is at. That is why we see so much laced marijuana.[/bold]
ETA:

Further research still shows more money derived from cannabis then cocaine.
Coke has a limited market.
Crack has leveled off, more people smoke cannabis then ever before.
Coke is cheaper then ever, cannabis is going up in price.


(and fixed html)


6/18/2008 7:59:52 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
Now, c'mon... you know that's not true. The only people who drugs are those sketchy looking folks that live in the projects, and in the trailer parks.

And let's face it... those "types" deserve whatever they get.

Shame about the LSD.  



Every last one of the substance abuse issues I've come across in my life have been alcohol related.  Whether it was employees not showing up for work, or domestic violence, or all the other moronic crap people do when drinking.  That dangerous drug is available at any corner gas station or grocery store.  

Presumably, every cop on this board who is in favor of the WoD™ is a teetotaler, lest he be exposed as a hypocrite.



6/18/2008 8:00:07 PM EDT
[#12]
height=8
Quoted:
Drugs present in the car (like the guy who's car smelled of pot, and had pot residue in it)? Seize it all... That's stupid games/stupid prizes territory..... No question on that one....


Assuming the LEO is telling the truth....I've beat several speeding tickets by proving the LEO was LYING, for no good reason except to make a ticket for 9MPH over stick... if they're willing to lie for that, they're definitely willing to lie for big $$$$$ !
6/18/2008 8:00:33 PM EDT
[#13]
When this thread first started I had a pet theory that Aimless was bored and wanted to stir the shit a little, but this just hasn't become as heated as I figured it would.
6/18/2008 8:01:27 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
When this thread first started I had a pet theory that Aimless was bored and wanted to stir the shit a little, but this just hasn't become as heated as I figured it would.


It's a good thing he didn't post it in the Brothers of the Shield forum otherwise he'd have to lock his own access to it...
6/18/2008 8:01:49 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
[bold]And if you talk to any drug dealer they will tell you marijuana isnt where money is made. Its to get people to buy hard drugs and that is where the money is at. That is why we see so much laced marijuana.[bold]


Exactly our point.
6/18/2008 8:26:30 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
But if that standard is met, take it ALL... He knew he was breaking the law, time to pay the piper....



Eighth Ammendment:
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


You=Fail. Taking it all is direct violation of the 8th amendment.
6/18/2008 9:05:24 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

And if you talk to any drug dealer they will tell you marijuana isnt where money is made. Its to get people to buy hard drugs and that is where the money is at. That is why we see so much laced marijuana.


you're are so full of shit, you squish when you walk.

least that's the saying 'round here.



Its by far the least costly drug. Someone addicted to a hardcore drug can spend a $100 a day on their habit easily. A pot head will spend a fraction of that.


ETA: And also look at the hardcore drug cartels south of the border. They dont specialize in weed. They're making BILLIONS of dollars every year in the hard stuff.

The domestic and Canadian grow operations are but a drop in the bucket to those guys.



full of shit AND factually incorrect - that means WRONG.

eta:

"MEXICO CITY — Marijuana is now the biggest source of income for Mexico's drug cartels and the U.S. is committed to cracking down harder on traffickers, U.S. drug czar John Walters said Thursday.

"We're trying to increase the force with which we're attacking this problem," Walters said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "This is a focus because of the overlooked importance marijuana has in the violence."

Walters made the comments following a meeting with Mexican officials who want the U.S. to prosecute marijuana cases more zealously to reduce the amount of cash gangs can spend on guns.

Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora discussed the subject with Walters and U.S. federal prosecutors from the border region Thursday during a meeting in the Baja California resort of Los Cabos.

Walters said the U.S. government is seeking additional resources to prosecute traffickers of marijuana, which now earns cartels about $8.5 billion or about 61 percent of their annual estimated income of $13.8 billion. Cocaine sales earn the cartels about $3.9 billion, and methamphetamine about $1 billion, he said."

have a big cup.


Cartels sell by volume.

Jerome on the block sells by profit margin and by getting customers to come back, just like any business.

Apples and orangutans.


fair enuf-

but here the quote I responded to:

[bold]And if you talk to any drug dealer they will tell you marijuana isnt where money is made. Its to get people to buy hard drugs and that is where the money is at. That is why we see so much laced marijuana.[/bold]
ETA:

Further research still shows more money derived from cannabis then cocaine.
Coke has a limited market.
Crack has leveled off, more people smoke cannabis then ever before.
Coke is cheaper then ever, cannabis is going up in price.


(and fixed html)




My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?


And that is just ONE hard core drug. That doesnt take into account the NUMEROUS other hard drugs sold and consumed. You really sure weed outsells hard drugs?
6/18/2008 9:11:18 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???
6/18/2008 9:14:25 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???



Seventy-seven billion?

Shit... I knew I should have listened to my mother and gone into the drug business.


(Is that net or gross? )
6/18/2008 9:24:08 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
"How do you spot the crooks?"

answer:

"They are the ones obeying the law."



they have flashing lights on their vehicles
6/18/2008 9:25:24 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???



Nationwide, 61,594 kilograms of cocaine
were seized by the DEA in 2002, 3.6
percent more than in 2001 and 35.9
percent more than in 1995.


drugabuse.gov



Traffickers started out with much more modest goals. In the mid-1970s, marijuana traffickers in Colombia began exporting small quantities of cocaine to the United States hidden in suitcases. At that point, cocaine could be processed for $1500/kilo in jungle labs and could be sold on the streets of America for as much as $50,000/kilo.


pbs.org


Cocaine Huge Profit Margins

The following data is based on an article by Geraldo Reyes, The Miami Herald, 3/01

Colombia produces 882 tons cocaine per year

One kilogram of cocaine costs $1,500 in Colombia

One kilogram of cocaine costs $30,000 in Miami

Americans spent $36.1 billion buying cocaine in 2000 which is equivalent to 6 times GM’s profits, the first company of the 500 Fortune.

Colombian peasants in Putumayo produce about $3,000 per hectare monthly, and they produce cocaine paste now.

Colombian peasants sell cocaine between $500 and $600 per kilogram.

One hectare of coca produces about 1.6 kilos of base that converts into 1.4 kilos of pure cocain. And, 5 crops per year.

The current cultivated area is about 122,500 hectares.

FARC buys at $500 per kilo and pays in cash or with coupons that convert into food or supplies

It costs about $300 to process base into cocaine

Cocain price is about $1,200 and $1,500 per kilo at the lab

FARC charges a tax of $2,600 for each national flight and $5,600 for each international flight from airfields controlled by them

Thoise who transport the cocaine charge $1,000 to $1,500 per kilo placed in Mexico or the Caribbean. The price raises to $7,000 per kilo in Mexico or the Caribbean. 60% enter the US via Mexico.

On the US border, the price raises to about $16,000 per kilo

Placed in cities in the US the price goes up to $30,000 per kilo.

The price of one kilo of pure coca at $30,000 increase bustantially more when is mixed with other substances for retail sales for cocaine less pure or as raw material for crack.


6/18/2008 9:30:20 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???




Laced Marijuana
One of the dangers of smoking marijuana is the possibility that it has been laced with another, more dangerous substance such as cocaine, crack, PCP, or even embalming fluid. Dealers have been known to sell joints, blunts, or cigarettes dipped in embalming fluid and laced with PCP. Though reports of laced marijuana are infrequent, and most lacing of marijuana is done at user-level, it is important to remember that with unregulated drugs such as marijuana, the user has no way of knowing what other types of substances have been added.

When individual users lace marijuana, they may sprinkle powdered cocaine or crack into a joint or blunt, combining the stimulant effects of cocaine with the depressant and hallucinogenic effects of cannabis. This can be very dangerous, especially for a person with not tolerance to cocaine. Users have also been known to snowcap bowlfuls of marijuana with powdered opium or heroin, in addition to cocaine and crack. Again, combining other drugs with marijuana can be extremely dangerous.

Smoking a joint that has been dipped in embalming fluid or formaldehyde has effects similar to those of a joint laced with PCP - a drug that causes hallucinations, euphoria, and often times, panic or rage. Having a negative reaction is even more likely if the user is expecting only the normal marijuana high. In addition to these psychological dangers, marijuana that has been laced is also extremely unhealthy. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen linked to nasal and lung cancer, with possible links to brain cancer and leukemia, and should not be smoked or ingested in any way.




POLICE ISSUE WARNING ON METH-LACED MARIJUANA

Police have issued a warning about crystal meth-laced marijuana.

While the police here have not actually seized any tainted marijuana, it is something officers are hearing on the street and wanted to warn the public about.

The police have received information that this is occurring in order to facilitate a new addiction to methamphetamines in those that are using marijuana recreationally or in a social capacity.

Methamphetamines can be consumed in a variety of ways, including, but not limited to, snorting, injecting and smoking.

Incorporating meth into a marijuana joint would be a simple matter and could easily be undetected by the unsuspecting user of the altered marijuana. Dealers will mix drugs in order to spark growth in the market.  It's been done with other drugs to encourage people to get hooked.

The police say they are concerned about this as the use of meth, whether or not it's combined with marijuana, can cause extremely serious addiction problems.
They are encouraging members of the public to come forward if they have information on meth traffickers.

Community members who have concerns about suspicious persons or residences in their area may rest assured that all information received will be immediately reviewed and acted upon appropriately.

One of the main organizers of a pair of crystal meth community  this month, said that the sessions were well attended by hundreds of students, residents, business owners and health professionals.
6/18/2008 9:32:00 PM EDT
[#23]

When drivers are stopped for moving violations, they shouldn't be treated simply as speeders — they should be regarded as possible felons.



Get fucked in your eyesocket, you dirtbag.

6/18/2008 9:32:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Pot was, maybe still is the largest cash crop in Calif. and I would guess Hawaii too.
Last I heard it was legal in Calif.

6/18/2008 9:32:57 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???




Illicit trade

Bricks of cocaine, a form in which it is commonly transported.Because of the extensive processing it undergoes during preparation, cocaine is generally treated as a 'hard drug', with severe penalties for possession and trafficking. Demand remains high, and consequently black market cocaine is quite expensive. Unprocessed cocaine, such as coca leaves, are occasionally purchased and sold, but this is exceedingly rare as it is much easier and more profitable to conceal and smuggle it in powdered form. The scale of the market is immense: 770 tonnes times $100 per gram retail = up to $77 billion.


Production
By 1999, Colombia had become the world's leading producer of cocaine. Three-quarters of the world's annual yield of cocaine was produced there, both from cocaine base imported from Peru (primarily the Huallaga Valley) and Bolivia, and from locally grown coca. There was a 28% increase from the amount of potentially harvestable coca plants which were grown in Colombia in 1998 . This, combined with crop reductions in Bolivia and Peru, made Colombia the nation with the largest area of coca under cultivation after the mid-1990s. Coca grown for traditional purposes by indigenous communities, a use which is still present and is permitted by Colombian laws, only makes up a small fragment of total coca production, most of which is used for the illegal drug trade. Attempts to eradicate coca fields through the use of defoliants have devastated part of the farming economy in some coca growing regions of Colombia, and strains appear to have been developed that are more resistant or immune to their use. Whether these strains are natural mutations or the product of human tampering is unclear. These strains have also shown to be more potent than those previously grown, increasing profits for the drug cartels responsible for the exporting of cocaine. The cultivation of coca has become an attractive, and in some cases even necessary, economic decision on the part of many growers due to the combination of several factors, including the persistence of worldwide demand, the lack of other employment alternatives, the lower profitability of alternative crops in official crop substitution programs, the eradication-related damages to non-drug farms, and the spread of new strains of the coca plant.
6/18/2008 9:33:43 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???




Laced Marijuana
One of the dangers of smoking marijuana is the possibility that it has been laced with another, more dangerous substance such as cocaine, crack, PCP, or even embalming fluid. Dealers have been known to sell joints, blunts, or cigarettes dipped in embalming fluid and laced with PCP. Though reports of laced marijuana are infrequent, and most lacing of marijuana is done at user-level, it is important to remember that with unregulated drugs such as marijuana, the user has no way of knowing what other types of substances have been added.

When individual users lace marijuana, they may sprinkle powdered cocaine or crack into a joint or blunt, combining the stimulant effects of cocaine with the depressant and hallucinogenic effects of cannabis. This can be very dangerous, especially for a person with not tolerance to cocaine. Users have also been known to snowcap bowlfuls of marijuana with powdered opium or heroin, in addition to cocaine and crack. Again, combining other drugs with marijuana can be extremely dangerous.

Smoking a joint that has been dipped in embalming fluid or formaldehyde has effects similar to those of a joint laced with PCP - a drug that causes hallucinations, euphoria, and often times, panic or rage. Having a negative reaction is even more likely if the user is expecting only the normal marijuana high. In addition to these psychological dangers, marijuana that has been laced is also extremely unhealthy. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen linked to nasal and lung cancer, with possible links to brain cancer and leukemia, and should not be smoked or ingested in any way.




POLICE ISSUE WARNING ON METH-LACED MARIJUANA

Police have issued a warning about crystal meth-laced marijuana.

While the police here have not actually seized any tainted marijuana, it is something officers are hearing on the street and wanted to warn the public about.

The police have received information that this is occurring in order to facilitate a new addiction to methamphetamines in those that are using marijuana recreationally or in a social capacity.

Methamphetamines can be consumed in a variety of ways, including, but not limited to, snorting, injecting and smoking.

Incorporating meth into a marijuana joint would be a simple matter and could easily be undetected by the unsuspecting user of the altered marijuana. Dealers will mix drugs in order to spark growth in the market.  It's been done with other drugs to encourage people to get hooked.

The police say they are concerned about this as the use of meth, whether or not it's combined with marijuana, can cause extremely serious addiction problems.
They are encouraging members of the public to come forward if they have information on meth traffickers.

Community members who have concerns about suspicious persons or residences in their area may rest assured that all information received will be immediately reviewed and acted upon appropriately.

One of the main organizers of a pair of crystal meth community  this month, said that the sessions were well attended by hundreds of students, residents, business owners and health professionals.


wtf??

stuff that shit back into whatever ass you pulled it from.......what an idiot.

I done with this.

6/18/2008 9:35:51 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
Easy solution.

ALL assests siezed have to go to charity.

No department gets to keep any of it. Nothing.

You do that & then the "for profit" questions are gone.



Yeah, lets keep the law and complicate it and add to it.  Makes reeeeal good sense.  

Lets give it to the FOP.  That's a charity.  Yeah.  Charity n shit.

6/18/2008 9:39:45 PM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
...

My research shows an average of 77,000,000,000 dollars worth of cocaine is sold annualy. How much weed is sold annually?



puhleez.. those look like the cop #'s... $100 a gram blah , blah....

Quote your source on the 77 billion please.
and i'm not going to hijack the tread-this is off topic.

BTW- any figures on your 'tainted weed' bullshit???




Laced Marijuana
One of the dangers of smoking marijuana is the possibility that it has been laced with another, more dangerous substance such as cocaine, crack, PCP, or even embalming fluid. Dealers have been known to sell joints, blunts, or cigarettes dipped in embalming fluid and laced with PCP. Though reports of laced marijuana are infrequent, and most lacing of marijuana is done at user-level, it is important to remember that with unregulated drugs such as marijuana, the user has no way of knowing what other types of substances have been added.

When individual users lace marijuana, they may sprinkle powdered cocaine or crack into a joint or blunt, combining the stimulant effects of cocaine with the depressant and hallucinogenic effects of cannabis. This can be very dangerous, especially for a person with not tolerance to cocaine. Users have also been known to snowcap bowlfuls of marijuana with powdered opium or heroin, in addition to cocaine and crack. Again, combining other drugs with marijuana can be extremely dangerous.

Smoking a joint that has been dipped in embalming fluid or formaldehyde has effects similar to those of a joint laced with PCP - a drug that causes hallucinations, euphoria, and often times, panic or rage. Having a negative reaction is even more likely if the user is expecting only the normal marijuana high. In addition to these psychological dangers, marijuana that has been laced is also extremely unhealthy. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen linked to nasal and lung cancer, with possible links to brain cancer and leukemia, and should not be smoked or ingested in any way.




POLICE ISSUE WARNING ON METH-LACED MARIJUANA

Police have issued a warning about crystal meth-laced marijuana.

While the police here have not actually seized any tainted marijuana, it is something officers are hearing on the street and wanted to warn the public about.

The police have received information that this is occurring in order to facilitate a new addiction to methamphetamines in those that are using marijuana recreationally or in a social capacity.

Methamphetamines can be consumed in a variety of ways, including, but not limited to, snorting, injecting and smoking.

Incorporating meth into a marijuana joint would be a simple matter and could easily be undetected by the unsuspecting user of the altered marijuana. Dealers will mix drugs in order to spark growth in the market.  It's been done with other drugs to encourage people to get hooked.

The police say they are concerned about this as the use of meth, whether or not it's combined with marijuana, can cause extremely serious addiction problems.
They are encouraging members of the public to come forward if they have information on meth traffickers.

Community members who have concerns about suspicious persons or residences in their area may rest assured that all information received will be immediately reviewed and acted upon appropriately.

One of the main organizers of a pair of crystal meth community  this month, said that the sessions were well attended by hundreds of students, residents, business owners and health professionals.


wtf??

stuff that shit back into whatever ass you pulled it from.......what an idiot.[V]

I done with this.




Resorting to personal attacks shows you cant conduct yourself in an adult conversation and rationally take part in a debate.

So far the only thing you have posted is one news article. Ive posted at least 10 different things from different sources supporting my position.

You lose.

6/18/2008 9:42:34 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:

Laced Marijuana
...


Honestly man, you're buying into the hysteria if you believe all that. We had a big thread about this not too long ago, and it was shown that most of the drugs that you just listed as being added to pot won't actually do anything. Burning them just destroys them.

Also, why would a drug dealer add something to pot that he could sell for more on its own?

ETA: here's the thread.
6/18/2008 9:43:52 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
has anyone played the Cav Arms asset forfiture card yet???


Yes... Damn weak card, 100% based on emotion...

Cav could be 100% guity of (whatever) or 100% innocent... Since we don't know what (whatever) is, we can't LOGICALLY decide weather the ATF's actions are legit - although many here have taken the 'I feel' route on that one... Their situation is 100% invalid as a 'point' of argument...

Only they & the ATF know what's going on, and I'm damn sure their lawyers told them not to discuss it in public...

The ATF isn't talking either...

And I, personally, refuse to take a side until the actual situation becomes public...


Yeah, just the fact that a business had its entire working inventory CONFISCATED with no way to retrieve it and held for 4 months (with no end in sight).... yeah.  Thats due process, alright.

How long should the ATF get to hold on to their property without charging them with any sort of crime?  A year?  10 years?  100 years?

You make me physically ill.

Eta: And its abundantly clear which side you're on.
6/18/2008 9:46:55 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
has anyone played the Cav Arms asset forfiture card yet???


Yes... Damn weak card, 100% based on emotion...

Cav could be 100% guity of (whatever) or 100% innocent... Since we don't know what (whatever) is, we can't LOGICALLY decide weather the ATF's actions are legit - although many here have taken the 'I feel' route on that one... Their situation is 100% invalid as a 'point' of argument...

Only they & the ATF know what's going on, and I'm damn sure their lawyers told them not to discuss it in public...

The ATF isn't talking either...

And I, personally, refuse to take a side until the actual situation becomes public...


Yeah, just the fact that a business had its entire working inventory CONFISCATED with no way to retrieve it and held for 4 months (with no end in sight).... yeah.  Thats due process, alright.

How long should the ATF get to hold on to their property without charging them with any sort of crime?  A year?  10 years?  100 years?

You make me physically ill.

Eta: And its abundantly clear which side you're on.



ONE ANDY TWO....
YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T UNDERSTAND....
TEH GUVERNMINT CAN DO NO WRONG....
BOW BEFORE TEH SACRED COW OF UNCHECKED POWER...
6/18/2008 10:00:53 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Laced Marijuana
...


Honestly man, you're buying into the hysteria if you believe all that. We had a big thread about this not too long ago, and it was shown that most of the drugs that you just listed as being added to pot won't actually do anything. Burning them just destroys them.

Also, why would a drug dealer add something to pot that he could sell for more on its own?

ETA: here's the thread.



I realize thats a rare occurance, and not actually a profitable thing to do. The point I was getting at is that some drug dealers used weed as a tool to get people to buy other drugs which net more money for them. I in no way said its a major tool or is common place.

Think of it as a Ford vs. Mercedes deal. Ford sells more cars but at less profit per car. Medcedes sells less cars but at a higher profit per car.

6/18/2008 10:07:12 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Bingo!  The more assets they seize the more dependent they'll become on the money.  The more dependent they become the more reasons they'll find to seize assets.  Pretty soon they'll be nothing more than state sanctioned muggers, immune to arrest and untouchable by the average citizen.


The police should never forget that they are Very much touchable by the citizens they serve.  Not advocating anything other than remembering who you serve and what higher power you derive your madate from.


We're not citizens, we're "potential felons".
6/19/2008 1:07:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Belmont31R, I really think you're off base with the lacing stuff.  That's just war on drugs propaganda which has been resurfacing for decades.
6/19/2008 1:45:14 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Easy solution.

ALL assests siezed have to go to charity.

No department gets to keep any of it. Nothing.

You do that & then the "for profit" questions are gone.


Nah... Not Charity...

Give the seized assets to State or Federal agencies, under the rule that not a dime can be spent by any agency involved in the seizure...

No profit motive to sieze....
But they guy hauling $100k of drug money in the doors or seat cushion of his car still gets busted....

The system by which forfeiture works should be changed - BUT the fact still remains that large amounts of cash are a pretty good indicator of criminal behavior... Not $5k, mind you....

But $100k? 1 mil? Definitely raises a strong possiblity....

If it's hidden in parts of the car? Very strong possibility....

Drugs present in the car (like the guy who's car smelled of pot, and had pot residue in it)? Seize it all... That's stupid games/stupid prizes territory..... No question on that one....


There is NO way that system could be abused, right? I mean, it's not like the Feds have zero history of corruptibility. Certainly they couldn't take possession of seized assets and then bestow a generous "gift" or "donation" upon the department in question. They would certainly never come up with such a clever and nefarious plan. Why, it took me almost 5 seconds of semi-focused thought to be able to work out the details of a plan to crack through that seamlessly constructed plan.
6/19/2008 1:56:03 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Not that far...

Sieze it...

Hold it and have a civil trial where the government has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the money/assets were related to or proceeds from a crime (as opposed to the citizen having to prove that it was not)...

In the end, the same ends are accomplished... It's just more 'fair' to the occasional oddball who uses the body panels of his car for a piggy-bank, for totally innocent reasons....

P.S. I have no problem with 'There was a small amount of pot in your car... It's now our car... Everything in it that's not live and breathing? Ours too'.... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes... Everyone knows drugs are illegal, and I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught with them...


If the government has to prove that the assets derived from a crime, then a criminal trial should be held. If a criminal trial cannot be brought, the state has no case. Period. The objectives of civil law are different from other types of law. In civil law there is the attempt to right a wrong, honor an agreement, or settle a dispute between parties OTHER THAN the government.

Your harsh, black-and-white-with-no-shades-of-gray view of the world is unrealistic and does not take into account extenuating circumstances that may be extant. For example: that small amount of pot found in that car that you consider sufficient cause to seize the vehicle. What happens if that pot didn't belong to the owner of the car? What if a passenger dropped it, or what if it was in the car when it was purchased? If the owner of the car isn't even aware of its existence, why should he have to lose his vehicle?



Edit for typo
6/19/2008 2:01:48 AM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

This thread is about people who are legally carrying large amounts of legitimately earned cash,


You missed the memo.  I still don't shed a tear when druggies get their cash seized.



Then you shouldn't be happy about the government getting all that money. I mean, after all, they are the biggest drug dealers in the country! What, don't believe me? Ever hear of Barry Seal? No? What about Air America? No? Hmm...well, how about Iran-Contra? Surely you've heard of that. What do they all have in common? The CIA smuggling drugs to fund black ops.  

That whole "Just Say No To Drugs?" That was only for show. So how about we seize some of that drug money back from the .gov? Are you in?
6/19/2008 2:22:47 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
has anyone played the Cav Arms asset forfiture card yet???


Yes... Damn weak card, 100% based on emotion...

Cav could be 100% guity of (whatever) or 100% innocent... Since we don't know what (whatever) is, we can't LOGICALLY decide weather the ATF's actions are legit - although many here have taken the 'I feel' route on that one... Their situation is 100% invalid as a 'point' of argument...

Only they & the ATF know what's going on, and I'm damn sure their lawyers told them not to discuss it in public...

The ATF isn't talking either...

And I, personally, refuse to take a side until the actual situation becomes public...


Ok first of all, PLEASE learn the difference between "weather" and "whether". I've already pointed it out to you in another thread and it makes you look ignorant.

Now, as to the content of your post. The reason we don't know whether CavArms is guilty or innocent is because the ATF has not charged them with anything.

Let's do a quick review of due process, courtesy of wikipedia:

Due process (more fully due process of law) is the principle that the government must respect all of a person's legal rights, instead of just some or most of those legal rights, when the government deprives a person of life, liberty, or property. In the laws of the United States and England, this principle gives individuals a varying ability to enforce their rights against alleged violations thereof by governments.

Now. in addition to that standard, there is the standard of the 6th amendment to the Constitution, which sets forth rights related to criminal prosecutions in federal courts. The Supreme Court has ruled that the principal rights guaranteed by this amendment are so fundamental and important that they are also protected in state proceedings by the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause.

This is what the Sixth Amendment says:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

Now, with that in mind, let's review what has transpired with CavArms, shall we?

On February 27, 2008, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives executed a federal search warrant on the business premises of Cavalry and on the private residence of its CEO, Shawn Nealon. The Government has yet to share with the company details of the investigation or the cause precipitating the search warrant. Cavalry is cooperating with the federal investigation. To date, no accusations of wrongdoing have been filed against Cavalry or any of its employees regarding alleged illegal activity.

While waiting for this situation to be resolved, Cavalry Arms will remain open for business and continue operations to the best of our ability. Since we were unable to get a decision on the manufacturing variance we had asked for, we arranged for (at great difficulty and expense) and rented the equipment necessary to resume production of the CAV-15 at our licensed premises. Receivers and rifles and have begun shipping again to fill back orders. Production of firearms, firearm accessories and medical kits will continue uninterrupted throughout this situation.

As of June 2, 2008, over 3 months from the time of the asset seizures, CavArms has not been charged with a crime, nor has their business been shut down. The ATF just stole seized all of their stock, and filed a legal notice of auction in one of the major newspapers. I can't remember which, but there was a thread about it at the time.

Since the Sixth Amendment guarantees not only a speedy trial, but also a PUBLIC one, failure to announce the basis of the asset forfeiture for over three months is an unconscionable disregard for CavArms' constitutional rights. If the ATF was not prepared to allege any wrongdoing or arrest Shawn, or even freeze his FFL so that they could not continue business (thanks to the generous outpouring of support from the gun community, including arfcom), then the ATF should not have seized CavArms' stock until such time as they were prepared to follow their constitutional obligations.

Please point out to me which part of my explanation is based on emotion, rather than law.  


ETA: I forgot to mention that the search warrant, which according to the 4th Amendment of the Constitution must list specifically what will be taken, was blank.

Text of the 4th Amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Not possible with a BLANK warrant.
6/19/2008 2:25:13 AM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nonsense. When you set a precedence that assets can be seized without conviction, then that precedence can be utilized in any scenario. Why the disagreement for waiting for a conviction of a crime in a court before things can be seized. Are we not innocent unless proved guilty?



Cars are seized every day from drunk drivers and street racers on the spot without judge, jury on the spot.  


cars are also seized in prostittion/$20 blowjob cases and I've seen 'sting' operations were people buying $5 and $10 bags of pot had their vehicles stole/seized.



Thats another peice of the pie. The "punishment" just doesnt add up to the crime. A few dollars in illegal activity adds up to what could be an expensive car. And buying marijuna doesnt mean, at all, that drug funds were used to buy the car. If you're buying something you're not making money off it as an end user. You're losing money in reality.

But I dont really agree with the "war on drugs" so I dont see the point in making a criminal out of someone buying a joint in the first place. Far more money would be made off regulating its sale than seizing cars and houses. For instance tobacco taxes add up to far more money than prosecuting people for violating import laws like smuggling cigs into NYS/NYC. Police departments would have more money than they knew what to do with it.



The point of banning drugs isn't to 'make money'...

It's to keep as many people as possible from using drugs... And to punish the rest severely...


The point of banning drugs is to get rid of the competition.


ETA: Have I mentioned that the WoD is unconstitutional and a complete and utter failure? Ok, just checking.
6/19/2008 3:24:14 AM EDT
[#40]

Quoted:

When drivers are stopped for moving violations, they shouldn't be treated simply as speeders — they should be regarded as possible felons.

Get fucked in your eyesocket, you dirtbag.

+1

"When people are confronted by police, they shouldn't be treated simply as good men serving the community - they should be regarded as possible rogue officers who are on the take and mean to harm you in some fashion."

6/19/2008 5:23:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Highway Drug Interdiction


6/19/2008 6:13:59 AM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:
Highway Drug Interdiction




What's the exigent circumstance for smashing in someone's trunk with a sledgehammer by the side of the road?
6/19/2008 6:18:27 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Think of it as a Ford vs. Mercedes deal. Ford sells more cars but at less profit per car. Medcedes sells less cars but at a higher profit per car.



William S. Burroughs wrote about this back in the day-you'd have to deal MJ in briefcase quantities to make any money, and your customers would expect you to hang around and smoke with them, whereas dealing junk you make money with small quantities and the junkies GTFO right after you make your sale.
6/19/2008 6:26:55 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Highway Drug Interdiction




What's the exigent circumstance for smashing in someone's trunk with a sledgehammer by the side of the road?


He consented.

6/19/2008 6:37:17 AM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hold it and have a civil trial where the government has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the money/assets were related to or proceeds from a crime (as opposed to the citizen having to prove that it was not)...


Fuck. That.

How about the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was used in or related to a crime, just the same as if they had gotten a conviction.

There, now there is no incentive to go around the back door to fuck someone over.  "Awww shit, we've got no criminal case.  Oh well, civil forfeiture has a lower standard of proof, we can probably win there."


+1000000000

government agents initiating civil proceedings against citizens when there's a fucking profit motive????????'

time for the shooting to start
6/19/2008 6:44:07 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:


He consented.





You should start your own school
6/19/2008 7:06:07 AM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The point of AF is to deal with scenarios where you can prove to a preponderance of the evidence that the property is proceeds of illegal activity, but cannot prove beyond a reasonable dout that the individual it was siezed from is guilty of the same


Which is why it is total and complete bullshit.


So simple for most, so difficult for a few (and the few are the ones taking the assets and their fans)
6/19/2008 7:59:33 AM EDT
[#48]
I think this was the first broadcast

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91490480

Every year, about $12 billion in drug profits returns to Mexico from the world's largest narcotics market — the United States. As a tactic in the war on drugs, law enforcement pursues that drug money and is then allowed to keep a portion as an incentive to fight crime.

As a result, the amount of drug dollars flowing into local police budgets is staggering. Justice Department figures show that in the past four years alone, the amount of assets seized by federal law enforcement agencies — the vast majority of it cash — has tripled, from $567 million to $1.6 billion. And that doesn't include tens of millions more the agencies got from state asset forfeiture programs.

In Texas, with its smuggling corridors to Mexico, public safety agencies seized more than $125 million last year.

While drug-related asset forfeitures have expanded police budgets, critics say the flow of money distorts law enforcement — that some cops have become more interested in seizing money than drugs, more interested in working southbound than northbound lanes.

"If a cop stops a car going north with a trunk full of cocaine, that makes great press coverage, makes a great photo. Then they destroy the cocaine," says Jack Fishman, an IRS special agent for 25 years who is now a criminal defense attorney in Atlanta. "If they catch 'em going south with a suitcase full of cash, the police department just paid for its budget for the year."

'We have To Be Prepared'

U.S. Highway 77 follows the coastal bend of South Texas past mesquite thickets, grapefruit stands and vast historic ranches on its way to the Mexican border.

Drug agents say Highway 77 is one of the busiest smuggling corridors in the world. Think of it as a great two-way river — drugs flow north, drug money flows south. For the impoverished cities and counties situated along 77, it is like a river of gold.

On one 15-mile section that runs through Texas' Kleberg County, the southbound lanes have become a "piggy bank," according to the local sheriff. In the past four years, combined seizures have surpassed $7 million.

It starts with a traffic stop.

"Look at this hose. Look on this side. So that tells me somebody has messed with it. I have fingerprints right here," says officer Mike Tamez of the Kingsville Police Department, as he inspects the engine of a gray Ford pickup truck that was headed south. He's looking for clues to where the driver might have hidden drug money.

"Come over and look at [the] air filter housing? Look how clean these are compared to the other parts of the vehicle," he says. After searching for 20 minutes, Tamez and the other officers crawling over the truck don't find anything, and they send the motorists on their way.

There's always tomorrow.

In January, Tamez — a gung-ho former Marine with a buzz cut — stopped a white Land Rover for changing lanes without using a blinker. The driver's story was inconsistent. Then Tamez noticed fresh silicone under the rear deck. A density meter showed something bulky inside. He brought it into the shop to investigate.

"When I pulled the drill bit out there was pieces of money on it, currency. Inside the compartments we discovered 80 bundles of U.S. currency. He disavowed knowledge of everything," Tamez says.

The bundles contained $1 million. According to the law, 80 percent of that will go to the Kingsville Police Department. So that one afternoon's work will boost the department's budget by 25 percent.

"Law enforcement has become a business, and where best to hit these narcotics organizations other than in the pocketbook? That's where it's going to hurt the most. And then to be able to turn around and use those same assets to benefit our department, that's a win-win situation as far as we're concerned," says Kingsville Police Chief Ricardo Torres.

In this sleepy city of 25,000 people, with its enviable low crime rate, police officers drive high-performance Dodge Chargers and use $40,000 digital ticket writers. They'll soon carry military-style assault rifles, and the SWAT team recently acquired sniper rifles.

When asked why the Kingsville Police Department needs sniper rifles, Torres says, "With homeland security, we all hear about where best to hit than … Middle America. This can be considered that sort of area. We have to be prepared."

'Addicted to Drug Money'

Federal and state rules governing asset forfeiture explicitly discourage law enforcement agencies from supplementing their budgets with seized drug money or allowing the prospect of those funds to influence law enforcement decisions.

There is a law enforcement culture — particularly in the South — in which police agencies have grown, in the words of one state senator from South Texas, "addicted to drug money."

Part of the problem lies with governing bodies that count on the dirty money and, in essence, force public safety departments to freelance their own funding.

In Kleberg County, where Kingsville is the county seat, Sheriff Ed Mata drives a gleaming new police-package Ford Expedition bought with drug funds. This year, he went to his commissioners to ask for more new vehicles.

"They said, 'Well, there ain't no money, use your assets,' " he says. He says his office needs the money "to continue to operate on the magnitude we need."

Another county agency, the Kingsville Specialized Crimes and Narcotics Task Force, survives solely on seized cash. Said one neighboring lawman, "They eat what they kill." A review by NPR shows at least three other Texas task forces that also are funded exclusively by confiscated drug assets.

The concern here is that allowing sworn peace officers — who are entrusted with enormous powers — to make money off police work distorts criminal justice.

"We're not going to sidestep the law and seize people's money just for the financial gains of the department," Tamez says. "It's not going to happen."
6/19/2008 8:02:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Sheriff Under Scrutiny over Drug Money Spending


Camden County, Ga., is famous for Cumberland Island National Seashore, the Kings Bay Submarine Base, the historic town of St. Mary's … and Sheriff Bill Smith. The tanned, white-haired lawman is now running for his seventh term. It's a dynasty, as his father and grandfather were Camden County sheriffs before him.

The 70-year-old sheriff's career has been bolstered by his remarkable success at seizing drug money off of Interstate 95, which runs north and south through the county. Over the past 15 years, his highway interdiction team has grabbed more than $20 million from drug-money couriers. The law lets police keep up to 80 percent of the money they collect.

Now, Smith is the subject of a federal grand jury investigation into whether he misused the forfeiture funds.

The Camden County Navy

"I'd say Camden County has probably been one of the most successful agencies on the Eastern seaboard in seizing money belonging to the drug dealers," Smith says, while sitting in his department headquarters in the town of Woodbine.

With this largesse, he's built a law enforcement empire in this quiet, pastoral county tucked near the Florida border and the Atlantic Ocean.

First, there was the $3 million sheriff's substation. Then, Smith bought vehicles for other county departments and for neighboring law enforcement agencies. He purchased boats that some people wisecrack are his Camden County navy. And he created an estimated $600,000 in scholarships.

"We've had quite a few individuals from our department get their [associate], bachelor's and master's degrees," he says proudly.

Some purchases were more exotic. There was the $90,000 Dodge Viper for the sheriff's DARE anti-drug program.

"The year we took this out to Las Vegas for the national DARE convention, it was the No. 1 DARE car in the country," says Lt. William Terrell.

The sheriff spent so much seized drug money that the regional newspaper in Jacksonville, The Florida Times-Union, began to write stories about it — about the $250,000 he gave to his alma mater, The Citadel, for a scholarship, and the $12,000 he gave to the spinal cord center in Atlanta where his paralytic son had been treated.

But the expenditure that really raised eyebrows was the $50 a week he paid to county jail trustees. The sheriff says they were paid to do public works and to teach them a work ethic. But his chief critic says Smith used them to build a weekend home called The Ponderosa.

"The Ponderosa probably represents the pinnacle of abuse," says Steve Berry, a lawyer and novelist who sits on the Camden County Commission, which sued Smith over control of the forfeiture money. "The sheriff buys a piece of property in the center of the county, little old house on it, takes inmates out there, they rebuild the entire house into a very nice party house."

Smith disputes that version of the story.

"That's completely untrue," he retorts. "I can't believe Mr. Berry would say something like that, must be a figment of his imagination. I think you probably know he's a fiction writer, and he's pretty good with that."

The allegations that Smith misused forfeiture money and, in particular, that he used it to pay inmate labor were serious enough that a federal grand jury in Savannah is now looking into them. Federal guidelines specify that forfeiture money is to be used strictly for law enforcement purposes.

Smith would not comment on the investigation, except to say all the expenditures were legal, documented, and he can account for every penny.

Checks and Balances

The accusation that Smith used forfeiture funds at his whim is at the heart of wider criticism that there are scant controls over how seized drug money is used.

"That's really the root of problem," Berry says. "You have one man in total control of $25 to $30 million with no checks and balances. Now you can imagine what would happen at that point. The old adage of absolute power corrupts absolutely is proven perfectly there."

Around the nation, there are plenty of other examples of misspent forfeiture money: bomber jackets for the Colorado State Patrol; running gear for the police department in Austin, Texas; football tickets for the district attorney's office in Fulton County, Ga.

Some might say, so what? Cops have a tough job and they don't get paid much, so let them have some new running shoes and a few end-zone seats. The investigation in Camden County, however, shows the potential for abuse when a public safety official has unfettered access to millions of dollars, with little accountability.

In Texas, there's growing concern about the possible misuse of seized drug funds, which are massive. Last year, Texas law enforcement seized more than $125 million in drug assets.

On June 5, John Whitmire called a hearing of the Texas Senate Committee on Criminal Justice to look into allegations of loose spending by district attorneys. Under the law, police and prosecutors can keep a portion of the proceeds from the drug-money cases they handle.

He heard about the D.A. in Webb County who paid for TV commercials during his re-election campaign, the D.A. in Kimble County who took his office to Hawaii for a "training seminar," and the D.A. in Montgomery County who wrote a check to a political buddy's golf tournament fundraiser.

Speaking to a hearing room full of stone-faced district attorneys in blue suits and cowboy boots, Whitmire said there ought to be a law to go after prosecutors who spend money on "toys for the department."

"If there's not one, we damn sure need to get one. Because it's gonna ruin a very good program if we don't tighten it up, put accountability and cut out the abuses," Whitmire said.

How Big Is the Impact?

There are two asset forfeiture systems: state and federal. The one in Washington exerts more oversight. Yet the Justice Department's inspector general audits an average of only five law enforcement agencies a year out of more than 8,000. There was no audit, for instance, of the Camden County Sheriff's Office, even though there had been complaints about Smith's extravagant spending for years.

Richard Weber, chief of the Justice Department's asset forfeiture and money-laundering section, insists that the controls are adequate and that they're catching and correcting the small number of agencies that go astray.

"We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars, 8,000 or so recipients, and very few cases of abuse," Weber says.

He concludes that forfeiture is one of the best law enforcement tools in the federal arsenal to fight drug trafficking.

"When you take away the money, when you take away the profit, then you're making a substantial impact not only on that individual case, but on the entire criminal networks," he says

But just how big is that impact?

Ninety interviews with law enforcement officials, prosecutors and forfeiture attorneys around the nation suggest police agencies that say they're seizing piles of dirty money to help win the drug war are mainly doing so to help boost their own budgets. And evidence shows that some officers will use their badge to take cash from drivers without any evidence that they're involved in drug trafficking.

"For every $2 million that gets seized on the highways it'll fit in a pinhead. You're making a dent on the cartel organization, but it's chump change for them," said Fidel Gonzalez, commander of a narcotics task force in South Texas located on a major smuggling corridor.

Don Semesky, chief of financial investigations for the Drug Enforcement Administration, added, "You're not solving anything by taking the cash and declaring victory."

The amount of attention given to seizing cash prompted the Domestic Highway Enforcement Project, part of the White House drug czar's office, to urge more public safety agencies to refocus on the police work. Officers making traffic stops should be collecting intelligence, as well as currency.

"What we're trying to do is get people to move beyond the stop 'n' grab into the investigation of criminal organizations," said Jack Killorin, chairman of the highway enforcement project.

A good example is Operation Money Clip. Five years ago, a West Texas sheriff stopped a pickup on Interstate 10 and discovered $2.2 million in a hidden compartment. That single traffic stop led to investigations in 25 U.S. cities, 22 tons of illegal narcotics seized, and 83 people arrested.

Some lawmen who abuse asset forfeiture may also end up in prison.

On Thursday, the former sheriff of Robeson County in North Carolina is scheduled to be sentenced by a federal judge in Raleigh. The ex-sheriff and 22 of his deputies — nearly a quarter of the entire department — pleaded guilty or have been charged with crimes as a result of a years-long federal corruption investigation called Operation Tarnished Badge. The charges included racial profiling and stealing seized drug assets.

The judge in the case, U.S. District Judge Terrence Boyle, commented, "They weren't enforcing the law at all. They would just go fishing."

This series was produced for broadcast by Marisa Penaloza.

6/19/2008 8:03:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Examples of Questionable Forfeiture Fund Spending
Albany, New York, Police Department: $7,711 on photographs of police officers and artwork for administrative offices; $16,190 on food, gifts and entertainment.

Colorado State Patrol: $340 for a walnut plaque; $832 for knives as incentive awards; $599 on embroidered polo shirts; $907 for tickets to minor-league baseball games; $1,410 for fleece vests and bomber jackets; $107 for poker chips; $234 Bath & Body Works, various items.

St. Louis County Police Department: $144,689 to reimburse employees for courses taken at local colleges and universities to complete bachelor's or master's degree programs, such as English Composition, Advanced Contract Law and Introduction to Astronomy.

Fulton County, Georgia, District Attorney's Office: $5,000 for annual Christmas party, including a red cape printed with "Super Lawyer"; $6,650 on dinners, college football tickets, fundraisers and galas.

Boston Police Department: $2.6 million to lease SUVs, sedans and other vehicles for eight years. The Department says the vehicles were assigned to undercover officers trying to fit into drug scenes.

Milwaukee County Sheriff's Office: $2,040 on a billboard campaign during election season.

Kimble County, Texas, District Attorney's Office: $14,000 in per diem money for a training seminar in Hawaii.

Austin, Texas, Police Department: $12,025 for awards banquet; $3,314 for department's running team; $1,895 for a race clock; $625 for coffee mugs.

Montgomery County, Texas, District Attorney's Office: $458.41 for tequila, rum, beer kegs and a margarita machine for an employee barbecue cook-off; $870 for school folders for public school students with the message about the District Attorney: Michael McDougal supports our Willis Schools; $1,200 to golf tournament fundraiser for county constable.

Webb County, Texas, Sheriff's Office: $13,050 for newsletters and $20,000 for TV commercials, both of which the sheriff defended as important public service media, and which were criticized as re-election tools.
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91638378&ft=1&f=1003

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