All of my guns in rotation have slings on them.

Three Urban Rifle classes, all require a rifle sling:

https://www.royalrangeusa.com/urban-rifle

I have a Magpul sling for my PSA rifle I just bought; haven't installed it yet.  

That's the place.  As I said in a reply on page 1, the class went over how to use slings. The instructor's comment was in reply to a student asking a question. It's very tailored to a home-defense situation.  Not patrolling your property, not hunting, not SHTF, not SSE after a raid, more door kicked in, window broke, alarm goes off, etc. I mean, they straight up tell you that, unless you have kids/family you need to get to or something similar, stay your ass where you are and don't seek out the threat. With that thought process in mind, it kinda maybe sorta makes sense FOR THAT GUY IN HIS SITUATION. It's also something that others appear agree with as the poll is not 100%.

And getting a refund because an instructor says something you don't like? Come on guys. If that's the sort of echo chamber you want to be in, you and I are very different. Take what applies to you and move on about your day. I thought training was supposed to challenge what you do and why. Maybe I'm wrong in that regard. I guess it's supposed to tell us we're all the best and everything we do is 100% correct for every situation.

My bad, I didn't realize you were the OP in the other thread.    Your other thread is why I had their class training schedule open though.  I'm considering taking UR 1 with my new PSA rifle.  Sounds like UR2 would be more interesting.  Thanks!

No worries. It's a good course all things considered, especially if you've never taken a class before/recently. Very much caters to new shooters.

Just don't ask the instructor about slings on his HD shotgun I guess.

I only remove slings to store guns in the safe or work on them.  If it's positioned as an HD gun, long guns have slings and handguns have holsters.  The existence of the sling doesn't prevent me from pressing the gun into service immediately, I'm not worried about them snagging because the slack is held by a ranger band, and I think it's very plausible that the circumstances of the situation present time to utilize the sling and net all of the benefits that come with it like retention or hands free necessity.

Like an RDS and a light on a CCW, it's probably not necessary in many situations, maybe even the most common ones, but it also doesn't hinder employment of the gun when it isn't used/needed, is my philosophy.

everybody coming back from iraq said pretty much the same thing: your rifle needs a light, an optic, and a sling.  so that's what my rifles have.

Same.

I found that a sling on an HD gun just makes noise and gets in the way of shit. But I also use a Hellion so I can pretty easily hold the gun one handed if I needed to do something with my other hand. If you're letting them get close enough to you in your own home where you're worried about retention you already fucked up.

However, I do keep a sling ready to go with QD mounts on it if I ever needed to slap one on real quick. Zombie apocalypse or something.

I greatly enjoy my Hellion.  Just picked up the ODG version.  If I didn't already have an 11.5" SBR as my HD rifle, I'd have this one set up for it.

If you haven't already, look into Lunartech's upgrades (flared magwell, extended mag release, and especially the extended bolt release).  Manticore Arms also just dropped their new non-collapsible buttstock that cuts 1-1.5" off the LoP. Should have mine tomorrow to try out.

ETA: Oh! And if you or anyone else bought one of these since 11/1, Springfield is doing a rebate for a free Vortex RDS, sling(!), mag, and some other SWAG. Make sure you take advantage of it.

Gratuitous pic:

How about toilet gun?

Sometimes you need to turn cover into concealment.  

And even that potential downside is pretty easily mitigated with an ounce of planning and securing the sling tightly to the gun.  

But since the vast majority of people's experience with using their home defense rifle/shotgun consists of it leaning against a wall or lugging it to a typical range in a bag, it's easy to see why some people haven't seen a need for one, I guess.  

All very good points and well presented.  I agree with all of them.  That's why I posted the OP. I thought the standard dogma of "every rifle/shotgun gets a sling" was well established, but he pushed against it and had reasoning to back it up. I didn't and don't subscribe to it, as I've stated.

Thinking about this more over the last few days, I did have a thought hit me: does everyone put on a holster if their HD weapon is a pistol? Several posters have commented that the sling is the holster for the rifle. I, personally, never had any sort of set up when I had a Glock 17 as my HD weapon. I had a light on it and next to it, but that was it. Why is the sling on a rifle somehow different? Is everyone planning on putting the pistol in the waistband of their skivvies?

And regarding the refund comments, you never know with GD. I bet more than a couple were serious.

RE: your ETA: I wouldn't say he was ACTIVELY recommending it.  As I stated and the course description states, slings were required and stressed with many tips given on their set up and use. He was just answering a question about his preference. That's different to me. YMMV of course.

This is true.  Something similar to a Neomag strap or T-Rex Arms bungee cord thing, hell even a Ranger band, secures it properly.  I bet many people have no idea what they are, what they do, why it's important, etc. Certainly many of the people in the class in question were extremely green w/ ARs.

Duh...of course.

it takes maybe a second to throw a sling over your head and shoulder

I have one for weapon retention and to allow me to keep it handy if I need to wrangle kids and loved ones around in a hurry

I can never tell if you’re just shitposting or actually serious

But in case you’re being serious


Because, were I to ever get into a gunfight in my home, I would like to win it, win it quickly, and decisively, and for that I’d want a long gun

I don’t have air support, artillery, mortar support, LAV/Stryker, or my trusty M1A1 from when I was in on call, so the closest thing I have to any of that is a long gun.  

If I thought I could socially get away with carrying a long gun instead of a handgun everywhere I went all the time I’d do it

Put bluntly, when it comes to winning gun fights, handguns suck

It’s why when people KNOW they’re going to gunfights they bring them only as a back up.  And really as a back up for their back up.  Because in truth, their rifle is a backup for their primary, which is their radio, which calls one of the things I mentioned above.  Because the goal in these things is making the other guy dead fast, and guns, on the whole, are horribly inefficient at that when compared to something like high explosives.  But we make do with what we have, and the best we have is

A long gun.

You can’t foresee every scenario. You never know when you might need two hands but still need your weapon close. I’ll always have a sling.

It's a home defense gun. As in, it isn't leaving your house. We're not talking a gun you run classes with, or go to war with. It is for HOME DEFENSE. Which is stationary holding a doorway or a hallway until the cops show up for 99% of scenarios. What do you need a sling for in that scenario?

Know how I know you didnt read the thread?

Good question. I use an AR for home defense OUTSIDE, if I am defending the home from inside I will be using a handgun.

Do you have a battle belt/some sort of holster for use w/ that hand gun in any sort of scenario you may envision using the handgun?

My hd rifle has a light, sling, and optic.   With a mag full of 73 grain hornady .223 critical defense.    After that its various 77 grain ammo in the loaded mags.

My hd rifle has a light, sling, and optic.   With a mag full of 73 grain hornady .223 critical defense.    After that its various 77 grain ammo in the loaded mags.

BANG, you just got shot in your left hand.
Now hold that position with no sling.

I run a bullpup. 20" barrel or not I can still hold it one handed and point it. Super accurate? No. Can still shoot it good enough to hit a bad guy at room distance? Yes.

You guys have this weird idea that home invasions are this movie/video game style fight to the death. Every video of a home invasion that I've ever seen that wasn't a gang hit job the invaders run away the second someone starts to shoot back. The ridiculous scenarios you guys come up with just amaze me.

Didn't get it done yesterday as I got held up at work, and the toy store was closed by the time I got out. Whatever, I made some decent money... which I spent today when I left early, because I did most of it last night.

Picked up another Magpul sling, same as the ones on my ranch rifles, as they work well and I happen to like them. Also picked up a POS 1" offset light mount, which I'm not so hot on. I mean, it's definitely holding the light on the rifle, but it doesn't make me feel tingly. The Arson one you recommended looks like it'll give me the tingles, so I'll be checking that out.

There was an ARFCOMMER years ago that had to take on an invader at what I think was a poker game. That dude didn't run away when the shooting started.

Have you ever tried clipping a holster to tighty whites?

I kid, you do make a strong point for having a belt with a holster attached with the gun.

I have one next to my gun. Like someone else pointed out the one overall scenario of home invasion has so many variables itself and compounds with individual variables in your own home.

Take a scenario of a single armed intruder.

Introduce one situation, you are already awake when you hear the sound of footsteps quickly approaching the front door thanks to having a wooden deck and dogs start Barking. Single, no kids.

Second variable. Suddenly awaken to the sound of shattered glass in another room. Father, three kids, living room, dining room and kitchen between the 3 bedrooms your kids are in. Sound seemed closer to them than you.

In the first you have a heads up and the option of staying in one room.

The second you are clearing as much ground as fast as you can to intercept someone before they get to the kids or the kids run out into danger.

That's just a couple variables...compound into it more like are you a hard sleeper? is your bedroom door in line with your kids rooms or off-line?

Something I highly recommend drilling these various scenarios in addition to training. Drills such as this combined with lessons from training and experience can filter what gun, set up and a lot of these choices.

It's OK if my set up looks way different than someone else's, it probably should if we have very different variables.

I think the gun communities tendency to collectively determine what is the single best choice could be dangerous for some people.

Speed, precision, confidence and judgement are going to be instrumental in the final result of how things play out.

Off to a good start then

I had a couple magpul slings and I liked them. I wanted a thinner lighter solution so I started making my own, and switched to paracord for attachment.

The AM mounts are nice. They were made in OR untill the company moved to Idaho because oregon is retarted.

I like the thumb over bore clicky tail cap, but they do offer some nice wire management if you rock the tape switch. But it would end up costing a bunch

Attached File

I remember when the prevailing wisdom was that you never had a sling on a HD weapon because the bad guy will strangle you with it.

Valid scenarios are valid.

Our shower is by the back door in our house. When both my wife and I used to work swing shift hours, she was in the bath after work, and called my cellphone asking if I was going outside. I was in our bedroom, and she heard the door creaking.

I got an instant adrenaline rush, and grabbed the only gun in the room. It was just a Glock 19 with nothing fancy attached, but fuck it, that door doesn't make any noise unless it's opening, and I had to make sure things were safe.

I stormed the door to find some methed up guy trying to sneak in.

Luckily, his wits were about and he realized he done goofed, and he stood down. Also, I'm glad the back light was on, otherwise I would have ran out there blind.

Reflecting on the incident, I realized I should have brought something bigger with a light just in case. I've watched multiple cops struggle to take down a single guy drugged off his ass at a McDonald's, and I don't want to be caught in that scenario

Now I keep an AR with light, sling, and optic by the bed.


Earlier this year, as I was going to bed, my car alarm started going off. Again, my adrenaline gets going, but this time I have the option of battle belt with pistol, or AR.

I grab the rifle, sling it faster than I could slip on my boots, and run out in undies and combat boots. Lighting in my driveway sucks, so having a mounted light really helped.

Two guys ran off as soon as they saw my light.

After about a half an hour of walking the property, I yell to my wife to grab me another flashlight. I let my rifle hang while I search around and under the cars for signs of damage, cut cats, or any tools that may have been dropped. Since it was slung, I was ready if those hooligans came back. Setting it down in the dark would have been retarded.

It definitely is OK. I live in a rural area that was safe until pot was legalized. Now all the farms out here hire all the shady types, and thefts and break-ins have skyrocketed.

I also have a lot of wide open space where wild animals, specifically mountain lions, may need dispatched for harassing farm animals.

My HD rifles all have some form of magnification that picks up light decently at night, and have bold reticles designed for low mag fast acquisition. My main one also has red dot bright illumination, whereas my secondary is bright enough at night, but goes up to 10x for the critters.

The Surefire G2X tactical lights have been more than sufficient for my use

Slings are my own make, but are all quick adjust, and wrapped around the stock and grip for storage and easy access, while still allowing full functionality of the rifle.

I don't expect someone in a city to run the same setups I do, but I would expect they rock a light and sling at a minimum. I do recommend at least some low mag, even if it's a flip to side magnifier. 2-3x goes a long way for small or partially exposed targets.

Proper sling management makes this a non issue.

I did the Paracord thing a few times, but like to move the forward attachment point in or out depending on what I'm doing, so went with the QD. It's also easier to remove if the rifle is just going to be sitting on a tripod all night.

I prefer thumb over the barrel tail cap activation also, which is why a slick light mount is appealing to me.

It's one of those guns that grew out of my parts boxes, so it's a work in progress. Still needs a couple of stamps.

Weapon retention beeyotch!

You don’t sling it over your shoulder like a hunting rifle and if you have to go hands on or release the weapon for another coinciding purpose?

i live in an 8500 square foot house with young children located at places not near me  

we have a plan   we practice the plan

the plan does not involve young children randomly running towards mom and dad should something go very very wrong in their world

it does involve dad moving towards them while mom holds the home version of the alamo

so yes   there is a long gun   with a light   and a sling    and an optic   and a redimag because dad generally doesn’t have a lot of room for a spare mag in his boxers and sometimes grabbing one takes time i don’t have  

although there are pistol and rifle mags, and other things like medical. stashed all over the house  

dad used to work in a job that put him in daily contact with very bad people   so did mom   so this is a scenario that has been well thought out and rehearsed

so, while there are days when i am not thrilled with some of my kids, i am not leaving them alone while i hold a door with my slingless rifle should something go bump in the night

Like most things firearm related, I would prefer to have a sling and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

You guys should see some of the folks in my department fumble around with a sling.  Like a monkey humping a football.

Yes

After you run your home intruder drill, sliced your pie up, and dry fired on your snap caps.....  Then do you practice actually  holding the weapon up and aimed at the ready for the 10-15+ minutes it will take the police to get there?  If not go adjust your drill and see how it works. If you have never had had to wait for extra help when shit sucks, you don't know where the love of God goes when a threat turns the minutes to hours... Practice you 911 call to spell out your address because I've had some damn dumb ass dispatch....  

Because that will feel like hours, and  you are an idiot if you approached a down intruder to zip tie or cuff them. Let them lay lay there and bleed until the cops show up and deal with it. You have no obligation to render aid to someone that just made a threat on your life and/or that of your family and loved ones. Are you a doctor? An EMT?  Are you required by law to render aid? No, then don't. risk it.  Get some safety distance, with some cover and hopefully some support barricade object that lets you rest some of the weapons weight against it.

So after you executed your brilliant drill for how you going to force the threat into you perfectly planned kill box, because the enemy always does exactly what you want, IE: Rule #1 No plan survives contact with the enemy. Just because  they're down, doesn't end them being a threat. Far too many good people, in too early of graves  from that mistake. That on the ground not active  can get a second burst of adrenaline or their blood pressure builds back up..... and it's back on, if you're not at the ready, those seconds and their surprise movement just put you in avoidable disadvantage.  Are you practicing  how you will hold that weapon  aiming at them from safety, until help arrives to take the threat out of your home and/or off you property? If not your plan and drills need some adjustment and work. Along with a jovial "enjoy your three hots and cot on me".

Starting to see where that sling that ""wasn't needed"",  starts to become damn I wish I had a sling now?

If the Catholic Education system has taught us anything at all, it is that you can't hold your arms up and out for extended periods, especially with additional weight.


*There is the Reactionary to that bad sound, aka what the hell?
*Then there is that investigating, aka Is that my drunk roommate, my kid dropping their glass of milk in kitchen, or a window be busted in from a bad guy.
*Then  engaging the threat aka"They fucked around and are finding out."
*Then containing them, because once the threat is no longer actively engaging you the rules change about firing that weapon. No mag dumping into them when they are on the ground, unless still active with a gun. Your home security camera work both ways.  
*Then  that last part of you're holding them at gun point can take awhile, for a police response to get there.  The more rural you live and especially the later the hour(fewer on duty), the longer this may take. If you get unlucky the officers are involved with someone else having a bad night with no a good visitor, which may be across  your county,  you'll be on the phone with 911 for a real long ass time holding your weapon aimed at the threat. Quickly ducking you head through a sling sure is going to take some strain off your body....

That's not even counting/factoring in,
A quick arm wrap/Twist can help you keep your hand on the pump(some shotguns  even now have a webbing strap for that very purpose on the slide) of your shotgun, which that "Pump Acton" shotgun  is the best option some people have for home defense due to the laws where they live, and/or do to shared walls with neighbors.  The shotgun was king of home defense to well up into the 1990's early 2000's and now in many countries and some states  that is people's only option now. A Pump ShotGun is a lot more jury friendly, and that shit matters. It shouldn't but this is reality.

A sling is easily stored on the rifle/shotgun, with simple rubber bands or masking tape, if you don't have better equipment options. It is far better to have and not need it, then need it and not have it. That's not counting the people that have the slings that hold a few rounds on them to give them some option of slug or buck shot. As critter visitors can require something more than a tickling of "dove and quail" loads that was a very effective option inside your hallways choice.

For that other question farther up in the thread,  "What is a pistol sling? "  That is called a "Lanyard" and they  serve a place & purpose, but have fallen well out of use.  Might help some of those poor conceal carry folks that accidentally leave their weapon behind , when using the restroom.

870 police with sure fire light and silent sling.  It’s a very un-tactical setup.  I’ll probably die if I ever deploy it.

Every military member, law enforcement officer, security professional, emt, doctor, nurse, etc. trains for the unexpected and strategizes for a good outcome.  

I gave you a simple and common occurrence that happens in gun fights. The support hand is often shot simply due to placement when presenting a firearm. You answered that you could simply shoot the weapon with one hand. Most people would say, " Wow, with a sling I could treat my wound and call 911, AND still have my weapon ready to engage a threat." Not having a sling is a disadvantage in any strategy game I come up with for home defense. Training, strategizing, and planning is what I believe will keep my family safer in the long run. It's what professionals do.

Then fix that problem.

My man !

what are decent single point slings? that actually makes sense to me on an HD weapon. I was messing with a Slingster 2 point on my rattler and it's annoying. a single point will be fine and getting hit in the dick with a hot can seems like a low worry in HD.

What's annoying about the Slingster? It's my preferred sling and I have them on everything.  It can do just about everything a single point can do if set up correctly.